Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 64
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Behind you. No really.
    Gender
    Male

    Default When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    I ask this because I am attempting to make an rpg system, but I'm afraid I lost sight of my original goal. As I've gone forward, it gets more and more complex, so I wanted to ask-

    What makes an rpg too video-game like? I don't want my system to fall the same way 4e dnd did.

    -Too powerful characters?
    -No classes?
    -Anything else you can think of?

    Thank you in advance :).

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    dsmiles's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    In the T.A.R.D.I.S.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    There are plenty of classless systems out there that aren't video-gamey. Where 4e went wrong for me was arbitrary numbers of successes needed to win on the so-called "skill challenges," and what amounted to recharge times on abilities.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Doctor
    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause-to-effect, but actually from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff.
    Awesomesauce Doctor WhOotS-atar by Ceika!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    4E didn't fall. Lots of people think 4E is the best version yet. Its just not for everyone.


    I think the video game thing is a complete canard here.


    My best advice is this: avoid trying to please everyone, figure out what you want your system to do well, and focus on that.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Classes aren't required. I've had much fun playing point-based system. Neither does power really matter.

    What matters is this: the players need to be able to come up with unexpected and creative plans, and the rules must support this. I want a relatively simple and versatile system to implement unexpected solutions, and I want character resources that are open for creativity.

    Example? In D&D, this can be something as simple as rolling an ability check for something you don't have skill points in. For FATE, it can be paying a fate point, or using an aspect. It needs a mechanic like that. How to do things the rules dind't really think of.

    The second is abilities that are relatively open-ended. I don't like it when an ability says "this deals 6d6s damage, and only under these circumstances". I want an ability that gives a few general guidelines, but lets the player come up with their own thing. Silent Image, in D&D, which can create whatever image you think of is my favourite go-to example.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Ugh, honestly, the complaint that something is "too videogamey" almost universally comes from old people who just hate video games. It has no substance or meaning, it's just a way for someone to insult two things they hate simultaneously.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    I can't really think of a lot of things that are video-gamey in RPGs.

    I guess item slots and ability cooldown would count.
    Sorry, 4E.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Well, not really. Something can be too videogame-like. But often not in the way people think, and it's more often the DM's fault than the system's fault.

    In a computer RPG, there are a list of predefined solutions to a situation, htose that are programmed in. In an RPG, it is possible to find your own solutions.

    Example? If you come up to a chasm, the programmers thought of four ways for you to get across it. A flight spell, felling a tree so it falls across the chasm, trying to climb down and up again, or jumping. If you have a fifth idea, it will never work, no matter how great it sounds. You will not be able to tie your weapons together into a primitive grappling hook. You can not go back to chapter two and ask the griffon king to fly you part of the way as thanks for rescuing his son.

    So, that makes the difference. It gets too videogamey when your GM tells you that none of your ideas work, since he doesn't like them and didn't think of them himself. I've seen it happen.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    I can't really think of a lot of things that are video-gamey in RPGs.

    I guess item slots and ability cooldown would count.
    Sorry, 4E.
    Ability cooldown is realistic, not video gamey. If I max press on the bench, my muscles need time to recover.

    I can walk over and do the leg press immediately, but its going to take time before I can bench press again.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    On Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    Ugh, honestly, the complaint that something is "too videogamey" almost universally comes from old people who just hate video games. It has no substance or meaning, it's just a way for someone to insult two things they hate simultaneously.
    Holy Generalizations Batman!


    But anyway. For me "Too Video-Gamey" is when the system forgets the advantages Tabletop games have over Video Games in order to simulate them.

    Tabletop Games have the advantage of flexibility, flexibility in terms of both play and character creation.
    Video Games have the advantage of Complexity. With a computer doing most of the calculations, a Video Game needs only to worry about how complex the mechanics are on the player's end. A video game can keep track of large numbers of buffs and penalties, for example, providing the player with a single, simple, lump sum. A Tabletop game all those penalties need to be calculated in, with everything it affects.
    By the criteria above, a tabletop game would become too video-gamey when it abandons flexibility and tries to implement overly-complex mechanics in order to simulate a video game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Atlanta
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    Ugh, honestly, the complaint that something is "too videogamey" almost universally comes from old people who just hate video games. It has no substance or meaning, it's just a way for someone to insult two things they hate simultaneously.
    Nope. There are plenty of people who make that complaint with legitimate reasons. Sure, there are also lots of people who just parrot what other people say as well, but this was essentially my complaint against 4E. In fact, I found the comparisons to WoW an insult to WoW. Heck, comparing 4E Core to most video games is an insult. Dynasty Warriors, king of the repetitive hack-and-slash genre, has more complexity than 4E Core.

    That is when you know a tabletop game is "too videogamey": when it possesses limited character ability outside of combat, and the combat is dull and repetitive. I'm a "don't knock it 'til you've tried it" sort of guy, so I did play 4E before coming to this conclusion. I said "I fire my laser" literally every round in combat. Can you guess which class I played?
    Spoiler
    Show
    Cleric.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Well, not really. Something can be too videogame-like. But often not in the way people think, and it's more often the DM's fault than the system's fault.

    In a computer RPG, there are a list of predefined solutions to a situation, htose that are programmed in. In an RPG, it is possible to find your own solutions.

    Example? If you come up to a chasm, the programmers thought of four ways for you to get across it. A flight spell, felling a tree so it falls across the chasm, trying to climb down and up again, or jumping. If you have a fifth idea, it will never work, no matter how great it sounds. You will not be able to tie your weapons together into a primitive grappling hook. You can not go back to chapter two and ask the griffon king to fly you part of the way as thanks for rescuing his son.

    So, that makes the difference. It gets too videogamey when your GM tells you that none of your ideas work, since he doesn't like them and didn't think of them himself. I've seen it happen.
    Except... that's a flaw in video games as well (as are ability cooldowns, weird, arbitrary success conditions, etc.).

    The accusation of something being "too videogamey" implies that the reason this is a problem is because video games do it. That's what I object to.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Somerville, MA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    I have two requirements in my tabletop games that are relevant.

    When I play the game I have to be able to go anywhere and do anything. If the game is a multiple choice choose your own adventure of things the GM has already thought of for me to do, that's a video game.

    Now, that particular requirement is often broken by poor GMing rather than the system. But, the system can certainly help the GM. First off, whatever GM guide comes with the system needs to encourage the GM to allow the players to go everywhere, not just everywhere the GM already thought up. The system also needs to be able to handle improvisation. I'll use 4e as an example since it already came up. I actually find it easier to improvise combats in 4e than 3.5, even though 4e is a bit heavier mechanically. This is because 4e does a better job at estimating encounter difficulty. I can throw together an encounter and as long as it follows the XP budget and level appropriate guidelines, the encounter runs at roughly the correct difficulty. I never had that experience in 3rd ed. Combats took a while to prep because I either had to come up with the NPCs or sanity check everything. In general though, I'd say that a minimalistic light system will be easier to improvise because there's less to crunch.

    Too much math also makes tabletop feel video gamey. Yes, we could play D&D with physics and calculus. I'm sure some people do. But for me that detracts from the tabletop aspect. I like rough estimations with simpler calculations. It's part of the tabletop game charm for me.

    Anyway, the point where I cry too much math is fractions. I think any amount of math up until that point works, but as soon as fractions hit the table people start pulling out calculators.

    I associate this level of math with video games because that's where computers shine. Let them do ridiculous amounts of math in a nanosecond. When I want accurate projectile trajectories projecting dynamic shadows I'll get them from video games.
    If you like what I have to say, please check out my GMing Blog where I discuss writing and roleplaying in greater depth.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    Except... that's a flaw in video games as well (as are ability cooldowns, weird, arbitrary success conditions, etc.).

    The accusation of something being "too videogamey" implies that the reason this is a problem is because video games do it. That's what I object to.
    That's not a flaw in some videogames. That's a thing in all CRPGs. There can always only be so many situations that can be programmed into a game. Every game has this limitation.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    On Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craft (Cheese) View Post
    Except... that's a flaw in video games as well (as are ability cooldowns, weird, arbitrary success conditions, etc.).

    The accusation of something being "too videogamey" implies that the reason this is a problem is because video games do it. That's what I object to.
    No, it implies that it's a problem because the Tabletop game is trying to be a video game.

    Imagine going to a restaurant, one that serves, let's say, burgers. You go there because you want a burger. You walk in and the guy says "We've worked very hard to make sure our burgers taste as much like Tacos as possible!"
    You say "but I want a burger that tastes like a burger"
    and they say "Well more people like Tacos, so we're making Burgertacos!".
    The problem isn't that Tacos are bad, it's that what works on a Taco does not work on a Burger.

    The problem isn't video games. Video games are awesome. The problem is that video game mechanics don't always translate well the Tabletop Games, they are two very different mediums.
    Imagine if you sat down and the DM said
    "A town guard approaches you and asks you to bring him ten bear pelts."
    "We go into the woods"
    "You see bears, boars, and bandits"
    "We attack a bear!"
    you beat the bear. The DM rolls
    "No pelt on this one. What do you do?"

    And you repeat that until you have Ten Bear Pelts. It would be Boring and terrible, but video games do that sort of quest all the time, and it works, it can be pretty fun, but only in a video game.
    Last edited by BRC; 2012-07-18 at 10:55 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2011

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    That's not a flaw in some videogames. That's a thing in all CRPGs. There can always only be so many situations that can be programmed into a game. Every game has this limitation.
    Most video games give the player a set of tools with an environment, then defines a consistent set of laws governing how each tool affects each part of the environment.

    You really only see developers attempt to directly implement a tree of options the player can follow with dialogue, because nobody has dialogue mechanics figured out yet. You see CRPGs do this a lot because dialogue is really important in those games, but it is in no way inherent to the medium itself.

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    The problem isn't video games. Video games are awesome. The problem is that video game mechanics don't always translate well the Tabletop Games, they are two very different mediums.
    Imagine if you sat down and the DM said
    "A town guard approaches you and asks you to bring him ten bear pelts."
    "We go into the woods"
    "You see bears, boars, and bandits"
    "We attack a bear!"
    you beat the bear. The DM rolls
    "No pelt on this one. What do you do?"

    And you repeat that until you have Ten Bear Pelts. It would be Boring and terrible, but video games do that sort of quest all the time, and it works, it can be pretty fun, but only in a video game.
    Not really: This is just about the laziest form of quest design there is. The difference isn't that this is somehow better in a video game, the difference is video games make lazy quest design more palatable because that gets masked over by the pretty lights and sound effects.

    The thing is that the pretty lights and sound effects are even more effective when you're playing through level design that's actually good.
    Last edited by Craft (Cheese); 2012-07-18 at 11:03 AM.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    The problem isn't video games. Video games are awesome. The problem is that video game mechanics don't always translate well the Tabletop Games, they are two very different mediums.
    Imagine if you sat down and the DM said
    "A town guard approaches you and asks you to bring him ten bear pelts."
    "We go into the woods"
    "You see bears, boars, and bandits"
    "We attack a bear!"
    you beat the bear. The DM rolls
    "No pelt on this one. What do you do?"

    And you repeat that until you have Ten Bear Pelts. It would be Boring and terrible, but video games do that sort of quest all the time, and it works, it can be pretty fun, but only in a video game.
    Has anyone ever seen a DM do this?


    When people say "too-videogamey" they never mean any of these things. They almost always mean "I don't like it and I can't explain why".

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Germany

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    Ability cooldown is realistic, not video gamey. If I max press on the bench, my muscles need time to recover.

    I can walk over and do the leg press immediately, but its going to take time before I can bench press again.
    Yes, but you won't be able to do sommersaults, rope skipping, and do 100 meter dash either. Either you can do any of them or none of them.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozfer View Post
    I ask this because I am attempting to make an rpg system, but I'm afraid I lost sight of my original goal. As I've gone forward, it gets more and more complex, so I wanted to ask-

    What makes an rpg too video-game like? I don't want my system to fall the same way 4e dnd did.

    -Too powerful characters?
    -No classes?
    -Anything else you can think of?

    Thank you in advance :).
    You know, video-games can do a lot of things right. Modern pen and paper game design would be foolish to ignore the medium just because they want to fit it into a box and push it aside. They're just as capable of creating a compelling experience as a pen and paper game, and one that can hit multiple buttons. Consider some of the things that you could incorporate, whose origins can generally be found in a videogames:
    • Heavy customization of characters, but (generally) presented in a design where there are no "wrong" picks (consider a game like Deus Ex for example).
    • The ability to present information in very simple ways, that allow new players to quickly grasp some of the game's mechanics (I consider a game like Final Fantasy X to do this, but your result may vary).
    • Boss fights with a clear beginning/middle/end progression that require players to switch tactics, as the boss changes its own tactics, making a more compelling fight (such as a game like World of Warcraft).


    People who think 4e is a "videogame" are just looking at excuses to dislike it, rather than engaging with what the system is trying to do. 4e (like editions before it) is an excuse to build heroic, fantasy-style characters who tackle heroic, fantasy-style problems. Certainly, 4e has it's strengths and weaknesses, but so do all of the previous editions.

    Despite 4e being considered the most "video-game" like, it has arguably the most robust improvisation mechanics presented in their DMG (someone will need to check older editions for me; there are, to my gaze, little about improvisation in the 3.5 DMG), and I would even argue does a better job of "not using the dice" for skills than 5e is currently attempting.

    Despite 4e being the most "video-game" like, it does not reward "system mastery" nearly to the extent that 3.5 did (which, I might remind people, would involve breaking the game despite following the rules).

    Despite 4e being the most "video-game" like, it is easily the most flexible system for a DM to modify, as the math has been done for you already. Love it or hate it, 4e is a dream to DM.

    So don't look at a system like 4e with scorn. There are a lot of positives to draw out of it, even if you don't like how they handled daily powers, or hit points, or whatever. I don't care if a mechanic is inspired by a video game, as long as it plays quickly and is fun. Make a game that's fun to play rather than worrying about whether it feels like a video game.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Great Modthulhu: Please remember that while discussing positive/negative traits of games is acceptable, putting down or insulting play styles and/or other people based on their choice of playstyle or game system is not. This is an obviously touchy topic, and will be shut down if it gets out of hand.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    Yes, but you won't be able to do sommersaults, rope skipping, and do 100 meter dash either. Either you can do any of them or none of them.
    I'd definitely be able to run the 100 after bench pressing. I'd probably be able to do sommersaults too. Rope skipping, no.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    On Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Synovia View Post
    Has anyone ever seen a DM do this?
    No, because it would be a terrible idea. But it's illustrating my point that one can say a tabletop is "Too Video-gamey", without saying that videogames themselves are bad.
    The "Kill Ten Bears" Quest is considered a standard in CRPGs, a lazy standard, but a standard nonetheless. It's acceptable. In a tabletop it would be unacceptable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Hm we should have a clear definition of what the current major difference between a tabletop and a videogame is.

    And I think the only real difference (I can think of) is the limitation on the actions you can do in videogames.

    Then again the rulebooks don´t cover all this stuff so from a raw perspective they are limited too, BUT in most cases they have a sentence that says something like the dm/player consensus can approximate rules for actions that are not in the rulebook.

    So a tabletop rpg would be too videogamy (for me) if it would explicitly forbid to take actions that are not part of the rulebooks.
    Last edited by Emmerask; 2012-07-18 at 11:13 AM.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2007

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmerask View Post
    So a tabletop rpg would be too videogamy (for me) if it would explicitly forbid to take actions that are not part of the rulebooks.
    Thus, 4e is not "videogamy", because it's DMG is very clear about telling DMs to say "yes", and providing quick rules to improvise in situations that the DM did not expect would happen.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Here
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    The game is too videogamey for me if I can't do anything I realistically could do to my defeated enemies, as creepy as that sounds.

    Call me Bear Grylls, but if I kill a camel, I WANT to eat it, I WANT to skin it, I WANT to make a necklace out of its teeth, and I WANT to use the carcass as an impromptu bed and shelter for the night.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Colossus in the Playground
     
    Eldan's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Switzerland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashdate View Post
    Thus, 4e is not "videogamy", because it's DMG is very clear about telling DMs to say "yes", and providing quick rules to improvise in situations that the DM did not expect would happen.
    Exactly. I read the core books. I did not like them much, but I would not call them too close to videogames. They probably had more rules for this kind of thing than 3E.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
    Après le monde - le gris; après le gris - le monde de nouveau.
    "

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    No, because it would be a terrible idea. But it's illustrating my point that one can say a tabletop is "Too Video-gamey", without saying that videogames themselves are bad.
    The "Kill Ten Bears" Quest is considered a standard in CRPGs, a lazy standard, but a standard nonetheless. It's acceptable. In a tabletop it would be unacceptable.
    But thats not a system being videogamy but a dm playing too much wow and thinking that such "quest" activities are the height of epic gaming

    (I kid actually I´m a pretty big mmo fan (daoc 7 years ^^))

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashdate View Post
    Thus, 4e is not "videogamy", because it's DMG is very clear about telling DMs to say "yes", and providing quick rules to improvise in situations that the DM did not expect would happen.
    Yes I agree

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Totally Guy's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    England
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by valadil View Post
    When I play the game I have to be able to go anywhere and do anything. If the game is a multiple choice choose your own adventure of things the GM has already thought of for me to do, that's a video game.
    Have you ever heard of a game called Murderous Ghosts? It's a two player game where one player takes the role of a character and the other player takes the role of the environment and ghosts that wish malevolence on the lost character. Each player has a "choose your own adventure" style book and each tells the other which page to go to once they've described their part. The player either escapes or is murdered by ghosts.

    Although this directly violates your requirements I found it was solidly in RPG territory when I played it.
    Attempting to say controversial things that everyone will agree with.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    HalflingRangerGuy

    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Behind you. No really.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Wow... 19 replies in like.. What was I gone for? An hour?!

    Thanks so much for all the information on what people like. I'm definitely doing well with the flexibility of the rules and such things.

    Also, I would like to point out I have never actually played 4e. I was calling it similar to video games because that is my best example of a 'video-gamey' RPG (I have read the rulebooks). And in no way was I saying video games are bad. I just think that when you come to a tabletop game you want a tabletop game, not a video game.

    If you don't mind though, I'm interested in a few other things you pointed out-

    -When math gets too heavy:
    Where I'm drawing the line for this is dividing something in half and rounding up or down, then dividing that in half again (This rule will take affect almost every turn in combat, used for calculating armor advantages). Is this too much to you?

    -Limited character ability outside of combat:
    When does this start to bother you? There will be many options for crafting, lockpicking, basically any skill based thing will have a couple options, but combat will always have tons more content. This seems normal to me, but what do you think?

    -Too many abilities:
    I don't think anyone mentioned this, and it isn't necessarily something video-gamey, but it could still be a pitfall. Does a game bother you if in some cases you could be using an ability every round? Each one is very different and has advantages and disadvantages, but I could see how this could get irritating. (To be clear, ability means anything from blasting someone with a spell to slicing extra hard with a sword.)

    Last question-
    Custom magic: If players are allowed to create their own spells, it can lead to a lot of calculations (Even though I've never even seen a GURPS rulebook, I've heard it has the same problem). Are custom spells worth the sacrifice of more calculations to you?

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    On Paper
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmerask View Post
    But thats not a system being videogamy but a dm playing too much wow and thinking that such "quest" activities are the height of epic gaming

    (I kid actually I´m a pretty big mmo fan (daoc 7 years ^^))
    Which is exactly the situation under which a Tabletop can become "too Video-Gamey". When the creators (or the DM) try to intentionally mimic Video Game Mechanics, not because they're good mechanics, but because they are trying to intentionally mimic a video game.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
    [/Center]

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: When does a tabletop rpg become to video-game like to you?

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    Which is exactly the situation under which a Tabletop can become "too Video-Gamey". When the creators (or the DM) try to intentionally mimic Video Game Mechanics, not because they're good mechanics, but because they are trying to intentionally mimic a video game.

    Right, but has anyone actually designed a tabletop rpg to mimic a video game?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •