The answer with no question.

[Morithias]

Okay I've been looking over my "know it all gnome" build (thank you for all the help everyone) and realized something.

This gnome is level 10 and has a +46 to all knowledge skills.

Given increases in intelligence, increase in ranks, and the fact the campaign she's in is going to end at level 30 she'll likely break a +70 mod by the end of the campaign, and you can take 10 on knowledge checks in 3.5

So this got me thinking.

What the hell kind of trivia would require a DC 80 check? When would you ever need to make a DC 80 Knowledge (local) check, or a DC 80 Knowledge (royalty) check. This build is made so she has the same mod for EVERY knowledge check. Which basically means if it's DC 80 or below at level 30, she knows it.

So any idea what kind of obscure trivia that would require that kind of check would be like? I'm thinking something along the lines of "Knows what an atom is" as a nature check.

Any ideas people?

[navar100]

Know Vecna's real name, his birth name.

[Anxe]

Well that starts to get into epic usages of skills (obviously). Other skills have their epic usages imitate spells, such as climb starting to become spider climb and bluff becoming suggestion. Perhaps your knowledge is now more like divination, commune, or scry?

[crazyhedgewizrd]

The previous king before the last king, deepest darkest sercert.

[Cespenar]

Well that starts to get into epic usages of skills (obviously). Other skills have their epic usages imitate spells, such as climb starting to become spider climb and bluff becoming suggestion. Perhaps your knowledge is now more like divination, commune, or scry?

This is a good idea. Kinda like Asimov's Foundation series, but for predicting the future of dynasties and kingdoms instead of galactic empires.

[Gunpowder]

I really like that idea, Anxe/Cespenar. Not so much a magical sight, and more that, by the time you know that much, you can reasonably get asked any question and, with a little though, be able to use what you know to predict the answer.

So for law, if there's a huge tome of regulations you've never read for a country you've never visited, you could pretty much state any minor detail or loophole just by comparing the style to the vast breadth of other systems you've seen and making an informed guess. Or for geography - even if you've been dumped on another unknown planet, you could look around and predict where to find any geological features, just by taking in the subtle environmental features and working out the pattern.
Still, I guess it's up to the DM, as houserules could make this anything from worthless to broken.

[prufock]

What the hell kind of trivia would require a DC 80 check? When would you ever need to make a DC 80 Knowledge (local) check, or a DC 80 Knowledge (royalty) check.

Identify a 70 HD monster and its weaknesses and special abilities. For each 5 points over the DC (10+HD) you gain 1 additional piece of information about the monster. Obviously this only applies to (local), not (royalty).

That's it, by RAW. A knowledge check "has a DC of has a DC of 10 (for really easy questions), 15 (for basic questions), or 20 to 30 (for really tough questions)." The highest DC is 30. Similarly, the highest DC for Bardic Knowledge is 30. Congratulations, you know everything about everything!

[Yora]

42
If anyone would know the question

[Fearan]

Actually, it's 23, not 42

[valadil]

I think at that point your character can will things into existence. Instead of your character knowing about the real world, when your character knows a thing, that thing becomes true.

[Qwertystop]

I really like that idea, Anxe/Cespenar. Not so much a magical sight, and more that, by the time you know that much, you can reasonably get asked any question and, with a little though, be able to use what you know to predict the answer.

So for law, if there's a huge tome of regulations you've never read for a country you've never visited, you could pretty much state any minor detail or loophole just by comparing the style to the vast breadth of other systems you've seen and making an informed guess. Or for geography - even if you've been dumped on another unknown planet, you could look around and predict where to find any geological features, just by taking in the subtle environmental features and working out the pattern.
Still, I guess it's up to the DM, as houserules could make this anything from worthless to broken.

This, definitely.

[Jay R]

What the hell kind of trivia would require a DC 80 check?

The first question that comes to mind is "What the hell kind of trivia would require a DC 80 check?"

The serious answer, however, is that this is an example of the problem with deciding to use a single mechanic for any kind of activity. Knowledge doesn't work that way. For any kind of reasonable simulation, the DM should first have to decide if there is any way this character has been exposed to that information.

I don't care how high a knowledge skill the character has, he doesn't know what the queen told the king last night, unless he heard it or learned it from somebody who did

[Frenth Alunril]

At this point, an 80 check would be knowledge that is completely deductive, things that are not known, like, profoundly crazy stuff.

"Ah, yes, you are speaking of The Gander Crevasse, You say a woman went missing there. Well, The native peoples of the Area called the Gander Crevasse 'Ojulie P'thaliance' which translates roughly as "Pains, Birth Canal" They claimed that the God of Pain, "Ojandar" Lived in the narrowest part of the Crevasse and required ritualisitic Virgin Sacrifices.

"Now we know that is absurd because there is no god Ojandar, however, The woman you say went missing, I assume you are talking about Marry McFee. It is well known that she fraternizes with an lurid crowd. If it were that the cycle was right for her, she could have come down with a pregnancy, had she been intimate on or around the 12th of Umber, which would have been 3 weeks ago, making this an appropriate time for her to be aware of the condition which would mean that she most likely, if what you say is true, took to the Crevasse to hide away. After all, those who are portrayed as chaste, such as Marry, are usually the most susceptible to the melancholy that comes with such ordeals.

As you can see, re referenced some personal information about a random NPC's Menstrual cycle, that deserves an 80, especially if they are a new NPC. In-depth knowledge of another culture's (or a dead culture's) practices without reference is usually another example. Piecing out accurate language translations from nothing is a third.

So, with this kind of build, you are basically going to railroad all RP with assumptive reasoning, now... you will be right a good deal of the time, but the DM is going to have a hell of a time coaching you up to be right most of the time, you might want to work with your DM on how to take liberty with things in their world, and be sure that you are put in the loop on most if not all planning.

[Kymme]

You can use assumptions to know someone's Truename just by looking at them.

[joe]

I had a character similar to this, though he was not a serious character by any means. We used to joke that his knowledge skills were so high he had meta-game knowledge. He would say things that were OOC, and the other party members would look at him funny as though he was speaking some foreign gibberish.

[Morithias]

Update: I asked the DM what kind of trivia would need that check. He said "You know things about cultures from other Material planes"

For some context, in his setting there is an eldirch abomination sealed within the material plane (Similar to the snarl) however unlike the gods who sealed the snarl, the god Ao (NOT THE FAERUN GOD) realized it would be dumb to have the seal be in only one place, so logically there are multiple material planes, none of which interact with each other.

In order to go to another material plane you need either Epic Magic, or the "Alter Reality" divine power.

So basically this is the girl who in DC comics could visit a parallel universe and tell you what's different in this world, without talking to a single person.

Edit: Oh and for fun? The main character of this campaign is an evil prince who worships "The First Evil". You need a DC 50 planes check to even know the first EXISTS, and the only reason the prince knows is that a harvester devil told him. (The First made the devils)

[The Random NPC]

The first question that comes to mind is "What the hell kind of trivia would require a DC 80 check?"

The serious answer, however, is that this is an example of the problem with deciding to use a single mechanic for any kind of activity. Knowledge doesn't work that way. For any kind of reasonable simulation, the DM should first have to decide if there is any way this character has been exposed to that information.

I don't care how high a knowledge skill the character has, he doesn't know what the queen told the king last night, unless he heard it or learned it from somebody who did

The thing is, at that point, you have a higher than a similar check to the god of knowledge. So yeah, it kind of does work that way.
EDIT: Turns out the god of knowledge has a slightly higher check then I thought.

[togapika]

You are now Sherlock Holmes.

[Erik Vale]

You are now Sherlock Holmes.

You beat me to the punch....

But yes, you are Sherlock Holmes combined with a supercomputer that knows almost everything. If you don't automatically start taking diety ranks at this point by out knowing the god of knowledge then the DM isn't touching those rules (He succeded in failing his knowledge check).

[Slipperychicken]

You are now Sherlock Holmes.

Sherlock Holmes also had an Autohypnosis modifier of +14 (memorize data without needing to roll), and could Take 10 to hit the Sense Motive DC to read surface thoughts (at least in the new series, anyway).

Whenever you run into a monster, you know ~12 useful facts about it (should cover all of its strengths and weaknesses, like DR, SR, and so on). You know the entire line of succession of minor Polynesian nobility, with an encyclopedic knowledge of every event of each one's life. You not only know every holy text ever written by heart, you also know every detail of every variation and interpretation thereof, as well as each author's favorite colors and preferred flavor of taffy, and their secret high-school crush. Be sure to take Knowledge Devotion for a free +5 to hit and damage.

If someone had a knowledge check that high in real life, he could recite the entirety of dnd 3.5 perfectly without blinking, including all 3rd party material, and all homebrew.

Honestly, at this point your character knows more about the setting than the DM does, and any kind of reasonable limitation on your knowledge was surpassed around +45 or so. For some perspective, DC 80 is things like "swim up a waterfall naked and without magic", "Jump all the way to the top of a building", "detect someone's surface thoughts without a save by looking at him".

Also, look into the Sacrifice rules in BoVD. You have much to gain from an arbitrarily-high Knowledge: Religion check, like free Wishes.

And challenge the God of Knowledge to a game of trivia. If you win, you become the new God of Knowledge.

[BRC]

You are knowledgeable enough about the world to see it's inconsistancies and impossibilities. Where do the goblins get all that gold, when an average peasant barley makes a few silvers a week? How does civilization exist in a world with cruel giants and tyrannical dragons ready to stomp it out at every turn? How can a Paladin, a warrior designed for the task of killing, be considered an objective good?

Your character thinks on this, and comes to one conclusion.

The world is not real, it is merely a simulation.

But to what end? Not for Science, no, this is far too haphazard for any researcher worth the word to have put together.

It is then that your gnome achieves their true realization. Their world, their world and many more, are simply figments of imagination, conjured up for an evenings entertainment, and then put away like an unneeded coat.

The character then sits up and shouts at the heavens "If this is but a game...then let us play!"

You gain Knowledge: Rules of Dungeons and Dragons. You may freely metagame and, if you make a successful knowledge check, look at the DM's notes.

[The Random NPC]

Where do the goblins get all that gold,

They poop gold, because magic. Or you know, they steal it from the farmers.

when an average peasant barley makes a few silvers a week?

The average peasant makes 7 gold a week.

How does civilization exist in a world with cruel giants

It also has nice giants.

and tyrannical dragons ready to stomp it out at every turn?

Tyranny =/= lack of civilization.

How can a Paladin, a warrior designed for the task of killing, be considered an objective good?

Because sometimes you need to kill the evil, what better way than a holy warrior designed for the task of killing?

[Wyntonian]

Well, the highest form of understanding is synthesis, so I'd say your character would be able to make ridiculous advances in every field.


Think about it this way: Einstein wasn't smart because he memorized everyone else's work. He did his own.

[Slipperychicken]

Well, the highest form of understanding is synthesis, so I'd say your character would be able to make ridiculous advances in every field. the Tippyverse.

Fixed that for 'ya.

Either be an Artificer yourself, or have an Artificer Cohort who can build all your crazy awesome schemes.

[Erik Vale]

You gain Knowledge: Rules of Dungeons and Dragons. You may freely metagame and, if you make a successful knowledge check, look at the DM's notes.

I would show this post to the DM. Though I think there are other homebrew based around this.

Spoiler

Show

Whenever you run into a monster, you know ~12 useful facts about it (should cover all of its strengths and weaknesses, like DR, SR, and so on). You know the entire line of succession of minor Polynesian nobility, with an encyclopedic knowledge of every event of each one's life. You not only know every holy text ever written by heart, you also know every detail of every variation and interpretation thereof, as well as each author's favorite colors and preferred flavor of taffy, and their secret high-school crush. Be sure to take Knowledge Devotion for a free +5 to hit and damage.

For some perspective, DC 80 is things like "swim up a waterfall naked and without magic", "Jump all the way to the top of a building", "detect someone's surface thoughts without a save by looking at him".

Also, look into the Sacrifice rules in BoVD. You have much to gain from an arbitrarily-high Knowledge: Religion check, like free Wishes.

Unlimited free wishes.....
Ok, I think this character just broke the game harder than any Wizard, ever....
While I don't run Dnd, Stay Away from my Campains! (You doing it by accident only makes it worse).

And challenge the God of Knowledge to a game of trivia. If you win, you become the new God of Knowledge.

That point has already been made.

[Morithias]

Also, look into the Sacrifice rules in BoVD. You have much to gain from an arbitrarily-high Knowledge: Religion check, like free Wishes.

Actually you can only do the "Wish" spell once. Although you do get unlimited greater planar binding, and limited wish. Then again wish is a DC 50 check.

That point has already been made.

Can someone actually give me a reference for this? Cause when I checked Boccob in deities and demigods, he had +127 to knowledge (arcane) and most of the other skills were quite high as well.

[newBlazingAngel]

Your character is able to predict and improve the plot himself.

[Rorrik]

At this point, an 80 check would be knowledge that is completely deductive, things that are not known, like, profoundly crazy stuff.

Spoiler

Show

"Ah, yes, you are speaking of The Gander Crevasse, You say a woman went missing there. Well, The native peoples of the Area called the Gander Crevasse 'Ojulie P'thaliance' which translates roughly as "Pains, Birth Canal" They claimed that the God of Pain, "Ojandar" Lived in the narrowest part of the Crevasse and required ritualisitic Virgin Sacrifices.

"Now we know that is absurd because there is no god Ojandar, however, The woman you say went missing, I assume you are talking about Marry McFee. It is well known that she fraternizes with an lurid crowd. If it were that the cycle was right for her, she could have come down with a pregnancy, had she been intimate on or around the 12th of Umber, which would have been 3 weeks ago, making this an appropriate time for her to be aware of the condition which would mean that she most likely, if what you say is true, took to the Crevasse to hide away. After all, those who are portrayed as chaste, such as Marry, are usually the most susceptible to the melancholy that comes with such ordeals.

As you can see, re referenced some personal information about a random NPC's Menstrual cycle, that deserves an 80, especially if they are a new NPC. In-depth knowledge of another culture's (or a dead culture's) practices without reference is usually another example. Piecing out accurate language translations from nothing is a third.

So, with this kind of build, you are basically going to railroad all RP with assumptive reasoning, now... you will be right a good deal of the time, but the DM is going to have a hell of a time coaching you up to be right most of the time, you might want to work with your DM on how to take liberty with things in their world, and be sure that you are put in the loop on most if not all planning.

This, at this point your character knows more about the world than the DM himself. You are now entitled to make up facts at will, as long as they do not directly contradict something already defined by the DM, and inform him of their existence.

[Kelb_Panthera]

This, at this point your character knows more about the world than the DM himself. You are now entitled to make up facts at will, as long as they do not directly contradict something already defined by the DM, and inform him of their existence.

It should however be noted that if you get obnoxious about it, you may find yourself having to worry about rocks falling from the sky and flying DMG's.

[elizasteave]

I agree with the point but on the other hand I also liked the idea of Navar100. Before proceeding further Vecna's real name should be known at the time of his birth. This is also I guess one of the secrets and I think that it can be pretty interesting to find out.