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  1. - Top - End - #331
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Hopefully a MitD appearance is very imminent, what with Team Evil on their way to Girard's Gate and all.
    "And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine

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  2. - Top - End - #332
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    So just to keep the thread alive:

    What discussion was there about the MitD's stance? The line about "walking and pulling at the same time is hard" suggests (not shows) a semi-bipedal stance, and I suspect it's been brought up at some point.

  3. - Top - End - #333
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageWombat View Post
    So just to keep the thread alive:

    What discussion was there about the MitD's stance? The line about "walking and pulling at the same time is hard" suggests (not shows) a semi-bipedal stance, and I suspect it's been brought up at some point.
    That is a curious statement, looking at it again now. It's here, for anyone who's interested.

    "I should warn you that I'm a lot better at pushing than pulling. Pulling has all those tricky parts where you hold something AND move it. At the same time!"

    Does this just indicate poor coordination on the MitD's part? Or is it a hint at physical structure?
    Spoiler
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    So the song runs on, with shift and change,
    Through the years that have no name,
    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
    Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark

  4. - Top - End - #334
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Got a bigger piece going but here's a thought from me on that panel.

    The more interesting thing is where he's holding it IMHO. Looking at his eye's either he's holding his hands up near his mouth or he's holding it in his mouth. Another clue perhaps?

    EDIT: For clarification i'm meaning the last and 4th panels.
    Last edited by Carl; 2013-02-23 at 11:41 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #335
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by SavageWombat View Post
    So just to keep the thread alive:

    What discussion was there about the MitD's stance? The line about "walking and pulling at the same time is hard" suggests (not shows) a semi-bipedal stance, and I suspect it's been brought up at some point.
    We have had the discussion twice - this would be the third. That is not a bad thing: it is good to revisit old stances, because when new people are in the mix, good ideas can pop up. Case in point: RC lifting MitD's cage. The first couple of times, no-one thought to suggest RC might have boosted his own strength with clerical magic.

    So, with that in mind, the conclusions on MitD's stance are mostly drawn from his handling of the rope and from the earthquake scene.

    The earthquake scene shows a stomp sound coming from, presumably, a non-visible limb. This limb is quite far, diagonally, from the eyes. This suggests that MitD is either hunched forwards, or is a quadruped (think centaur).

    The rope scene, on the other hand, shows in panel 10, a rather interesting fold in the rope: a sharp corner near the floor. I personally think that we are reading too much into this, but evidence is evidence, and this suggests that MitD was stepping on the rope in that panel (maybe because he is having trouble pulling; more on that next paragraph). This suggests that MitD has a limb close to the front. Or that, while hunched, he is leaning all the way back to pull on the curtains (which are presumably so heavy only MitD can move them).

    As I hinted above, the other interesting conclusion we have reached regarding this scene is the number of limbs MitD could have and still perform the actions in the rope comic. If pushing is no problem, but pulling is, suggests he has a low number of prehensile limbs (you can push with your whole body, but you can only pull by grabbing with limbs - or so goes the logic of a child). Think an elephant: they can push with their head, but to pull they only have their trunk. This would explain why he needs to step on the rope, so he can let it go and grab again from the top for another pull.

    Personally, I feel this conclusions are probably reading too much into the evidence. A lot of the above can be explained more easily with "MitD is being his usual goofy". But then, not 10 pages ago, I believed that RC lifting the cage was outside the realms of possibility, so don't let that discourage you.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  6. - Top - End - #336
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    I wasn't there for the earlier discussions regarding this scene, but I do notice (though perhaps not the first person) that the umbrella is on the floor, so it may be that the MitD is unable to hold the umbrella and the rope at the same time for whatever reason.
    Last edited by Bongos; 2013-02-23 at 03:49 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #337
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bongos View Post
    I wasn't there for the earlier discussions regarding this scene, but I do notice (though perhaps not the first person) that the umbrella is on the floor, so it may be that the MitD is unable to hold the umbrella and the rope at the same time for whatever reason.
    Sorry, I should've said. That fact is also evidence for the possibility that MitD has only one prehensile appendage. Unfortunately, a second quite valid interpretation is that if you are scared of that difficult operation, "pulling", you'd want to approach it with all your prehensile appendages empty, just for extra security.

    Grey Wolf
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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  8. - Top - End - #338
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Sorry, I should've said. That fact is also evidence for the possibility that MitD has only one prehensile appendage. Unfortunately, a second quite valid interpretation is that if you are scared of that difficult operation, "pulling", you'd want to approach it with all your prehensile appendages empty, just for extra security.

    Grey Wolf
    As a counter-example to the "one prehensile appendage" theory, it has also been previously suggested (okay, by me ) that the back cover of the OotS Coloring Book shows the MitD simultaneously holding 3 objects: the umbrella and a crayon (on his right side), and a piece of paper (upon which he seems to have drawn a quasi-humanoid avian creature) on his left side.
    To be fair, he *could* be balancing the umbrella on top of his head, or holding it and the crayon in the same appendage (though that looks fairly unlikely to me).
    Do I think that Rich would really put a significant clue on the back cover of a coloring book? Yes. Yes I do. Unfortunately, I don't have a good theory as to what it means.

  9. - Top - End - #339
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    The rope scene, on the other hand, shows in panel 10, a rather interesting fold in the rope: a sharp corner near the floor. I personally think that we are reading too much into this, but evidence is evidence, and this suggests that MitD was stepping on the rope in that panel (maybe because he is having trouble pulling; more on that next paragraph). This suggests that MitD has a limb close to the front. Or that, while hunched, he is leaning all the way back to pull on the curtains (which are presumably so heavy only MitD can move them).
    You know, this is a strange point. I want to say it's totally implausible that the curtains would be so heavy they'd need the MiTD to pull them. What would they be made of to be THAT heavy? And why would they have made curtains that heavy in the first place--what would be the point? Plus, you can see a pulley in panel four, which would greatly reduce the amount of strength needed anyway.

    All that being said, though, if it's not a matter of strength, why would they be purposely looking for the MiTD to pull the curtains? The best ideas I can come up with off the top of my head are:

    1) Redcloak wanted to know where he was during the speech, to make sure he didn't cause some kind of problem or let something slip to Xykon on the off chance he returned then.

    2) They wanted as few goblins involved "backstage" as possible, so the MiTD was the natural choice.

    I suppose those are marginally better explanations than the inexplicably ludicrously heavy curtains one, but they're still not that great. What other reasons might there be to give the MiTD that task?
    Last edited by Holy_Knight; 2013-02-24 at 04:09 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #340
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by allenw View Post
    As a counter-example to the "one prehensile appendage" theory, it has also been previously suggested (okay, by me ) that the back cover of the OotS Coloring Book shows the MitD simultaneously holding 3 objects: the umbrella and a crayon (on his right side), and a piece of paper (upon which he seems to have drawn a quasi-humanoid avian creature) on his left side.
    To be fair, he *could* be balancing the umbrella on top of his head, or holding it and the crayon in the same appendage (though that looks fairly unlikely to me).
    Do I think that Rich would really put a significant clue on the back cover of a coloring book? Yes. Yes I do. Unfortunately, I don't have a good theory as to what it means.
    Three things simultaneously -- wow.

    I can't help but think it's a significant clue as well. It would seem to suggest that either he has at least 3 manipulative appendages (tentacles? hands? feet?), that he's using telekinesis (which might explain why it's harder to pull than push -- shoving with telekinesis would be easy, but pulling would involve two simultaneous telekinetic actions ), or that his form is protean, and he extrudes extra appendages as needed.
    Spoiler
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    So the song runs on, with shift and change,
    Through the years that have no name,
    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
    Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark

  11. - Top - End - #341
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    One thing that supports the telekinesis theory is that the MitD has been shown preforming other feats of magic (for instance, when he teleported V and O-chul.
    Last edited by Solse; 2013-02-24 at 07:13 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #342
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Seeing the MitD holding three things at once, and considering all the other matters, I'm definitely leaning towards the personal opinion that he's a Hagumnemnon or however you spell it.
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    So the song runs on, with shift and change,
    Through the years that have no name,
    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
    Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark

  13. - Top - End - #343
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Knight View Post
    What other reasons might there be to give the MiTD that task?
    Presumably, as per your first point, to keep an eye on him while keeping him out of the way so he doesn't stumble in and ruin the speech. I find that the most plausible scenario, myself, but of course under that interpretation the scene tells us very little.

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Knight View Post
    You know, this is a strange point. I want to say it's totally implausible that the curtains would be so heavy they'd need the MiTD to pull them. What would they be made of to be THAT heavy? And why would they have made curtains that heavy in the first place--what would be the point? Plus, you can see a pulley in panel four, which would greatly reduce the amount of strength needed anyway.
    All good points. It makes no sense that they would need MitD, and this has been brought up occasionally. But, as above, it would discard the whole scene (which, fair enough, no harm done if you do). Now, stepping away slightly from Occam's Razor, let me answer your questions.

    1st, weight of the curtain. Expensive, thick velvet curtains with high thread counts can be ridiculously heavy. Theaters with those curtains have a system of pulleys (not just the one) and counterweights to move them fast enough. It is not outside the realm of possibility that we are dealing with a couple hundred kilogram curtain here. Without any evidence of counterweights, it might be that the curtain is too heavy to be moved by -2 Str species such as goblins.

    2nd, the pulley. The pulley might actually be working against you here: i.e. be set up to make the curtain heavier. A pulley, after all, isn't magic. The amount of strength needed to move something with a pulley is the same as without it. All it does is change effort for distance pulled. I.e. you need half the amount of strength at any given time, but have to pull for twice as long. The problem with pulleys and curtains is that the longer the rope, the longer it takes to open the curtains. If you want a dramatic opening of the curtains (i.e. fast), then you might mount the pulley backwards, so that the curtain opens faster, in exchange for needing twice the strength.

    Do I think this is plausible? not really, no. I think Rich wanted MitD to be part of the scene, and stuck him in a position where he could deliver a few punchlines. But I might be wrong, and the above analysis be correct. So take with a grain of salt either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhunter_d View Post
    One thing that supports the telekinesis theory is that the MitD has been shown preforming other feats of magic (for instance, when he teleported V and O-chul.
    If he could move things with his mind, he wouldn't need to rock the cart to hook up the bucket with a rivet. He'd just levitate the bucket.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog Psion View Post
    I'm definitely leaning towards the personal opinion that he's a Hagumnemnon or however you spell it.
    I spell it "Protean".

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2013-02-24 at 10:36 AM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  14. - Top - End - #344
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Knight View Post
    You know, this is a strange point. I want to say it's totally implausible that the curtains would be so heavy they'd need the MiTD to pull them. What would they be made of to be THAT heavy? And why would they have made curtains that heavy in the first place--what would be the point? Plus, you can see a pulley in panel four, which would greatly reduce the amount of strength needed anyway.

    All that being said, though, if it's not a matter of strength, why would they be purposely looking for the MiTD to pull the curtains? The best ideas I can come up with off the top of my head are:

    1) Redcloak wanted to know where he was during the speech, to make sure he didn't cause some kind of problem or let something slip to Xykon on the off chance he returned then.

    2) They wanted as few goblins involved "backstage" as possible, so the MiTD was the natural choice.

    I suppose those are marginally better explanations than the inexplicably ludicrously heavy curtains one, but they're still not that great. What other reasons might there be to give the MiTD that task?
    Just from personal experience: Good, thick stage curtains? Are heavy. Are they heavy enough to need MiTD? Not sure, but... Goblins do have a racial Str penalty (the generic statblock gives them a 13 before the racial modifier, which is above average by definition). Maybe all the actual warriors were out doing warriory things?
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    ...though Talla does her best to sound objective and impartial, it doesn't cover stuff like "ask a 9-year-old to tank for the party."
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  15. - Top - End - #345
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I spell it "Protean".

    Grey Wolf
    Touche, good sir. Touche!
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    So the song runs on, with shift and change,
    Through the years that have no name,
    And the late notes soar to a higher range,
    But the theme is still the same.
    Man's battle-cry and the guns' reply
    Blend in with the old, old rhyme
    That was traced in the score of the strata marks
    While millenniums winked like campfire sparks
    Down the winds of unguessed time. -- 4th Stanza, The Bad Lands, Badger Clark

  16. - Top - End - #346
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Just wanted to put this here in case someone doesn't like the coloring book example for # of prehensile limbs.

    In this comic he's holding the umbrella and a tray. He also a few comics later holds the umbrella and the pot.

    These show he can carry at least 2 things at a time, unlike the 3 from the coloring book, though this doesn't mean he can't carry more than 2 like in the coloring book.
    Last edited by robinoz0; 2013-02-24 at 02:19 PM.

  17. - Top - End - #347
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Still writing something bigger but it just hit me:

    We've never seen the 's hands. Everything else in the comic tends to show it's hands when holding stuff, and there are a number of occasions where whatever he's holding is outside the shadow so why don't they show then?

    Not sure if it's just the giant not giving us clues on purpose or not but raises some questions.

  18. - Top - End - #348
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl View Post
    Still writing something bigger but it just hit me:

    We've never seen the 's hands. Everything else in the comic tends to show it's hands when holding stuff, and there are a number of occasions where whatever he's holding is outside the shadow so why don't they show then?

    Not sure if it's just the giant not giving us clues on purpose or not but raises some questions.
    The style of the comic means that frequently when characters are "holding" something, the black lines of their hands are behind, not around, the object in question. That means that any character holding an object in the dark will be drawn as if the object was merely hovering in mid air.

    This has become less frequent as the style has evolved in the comic, but still happens.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  19. - Top - End - #349
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Just to comment on the curtains, this may be the first time goblins ever hung heavy curtains and they haven't any engineering types to think of counter-weights. So they hung these nice curtains and then realized they couldn't move them. We haven't seen much of their heirarchy, so it's possible the ones working closest to are not the strongest warriors. So the quickest timing to do was grab the .

  20. - Top - End - #350
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Holy_Knight View Post

    2) They wanted as few goblins involved "backstage" as possible, so the MiTD was the natural choice.

    What other reasons might there be to give the MiTD that task?
    3) He's shrouded in supernatural darkness, so if he wanders into the line-of-sight behind the speaker, he's less of a distraction than comically-bad Goblin stagehands would be.
    "Besides, you know the saying: Kill one, and you are a murderer. Kill millions, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Fishman

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    3) He's shrouded in supernatural darkness, so if he wanders into the line-of-sight behind the speaker, he's less of a distraction than comically-bad Goblin stagehands would be.
    No, he isn't. He drops the umbrella before grabbing the rope, and sticks to a dark corner. All else being equal, the chances of a distraction went way up by involving him, since we know the reaction the public has to seeing MitD, and it is not pretty.

    Grey Wolf
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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  22. - Top - End - #352
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    I didn't see this anywhere in the thread and I didn't see it in Section 2a.

    MitD has at least two limbs that are prehensile. See the last panel of Comic# 474. Notice MitD holds both the umbrella AND a plate of scones. Both limbs are up in the air as if they are arms or something akin to arms.

  23. - Top - End - #353
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Greylond View Post
    I didn't see this anywhere in the thread and I didn't see it in Section 2a.

    MitD has at least two limbs that are prehensile. See the last panel of Comic# 474. Notice MitD holds both the umbrella AND a plate of scones. Both limbs are up in the air as if they are arms or something akin to arms.
    The umbrella can easily be held between shoulder and neck. Or even resting on top of the head. There is no need for it to have a dedicated limb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    I haven't got any guesses, and although technically i have read all this thread i did most of it ages ago so could well be reposting something, however... i think there is some more parameters that could be possible, namely MitD could be a creature normally found in goblin territory (whatever that is in OotS world).

    The goblins in the circus are unimpressed, so seemingly have encountered similar creatures before

    Redcloak also is one of the more knowledgeable characters in universe

    Assuming goblins are not normally jungle dwellers, that would explain the hunters' surprise at seeing MitD there

    A creature that doesn't live near the usual humanoid races wouldn't be expected to speak common, but one with more-than-typical contact with goblins might

    I've run out of points to make, but there are probably way more to be made of the 'goblin factor' by some more up to date with D&D and the OotS universe

  25. - Top - End - #355
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy View Post
    The goblins in the circus are unimpressed, so seemingly have encountered similar creatures before
    It is either implied or outright explained that the goblin kids go to see MitD a lot (every time their parents want a few hours alone), which is why they are not surprised at MitD's appearance.

    Quote Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy View Post
    Redcloak also is one of the more knowledgeable characters in universe
    But that is only because he is a geek, and has a magical knowledge cloak. The fact that he is a goblins is rather incidental.

    ---

    I think positing a goblin connection is rather far fetched, since it really is anchored on the first point, which is likely wrong (we don't know what the goblin kids first reaction to MitD was), but on the other hand, if it leads to finding a good candidate, go for it. The Barghest, for example, would definitely have a goblin connection.

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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  26. - Top - End - #356
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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    The umbrella can easily be held between shoulder and neck. Or even resting on top of the head. There is no need for it to have a dedicated limb.

    GW
    This is true. However, holding both the crayon and his picture, on different sides of his body, does require separate limbs (or TK, or one really long limb with suckers or somesuch).
    Last edited by allenw; 2013-02-25 at 12:33 PM.

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by allenw View Post
    This is true. However, holding both the crayon and his picture, on different sides of his body, does require separate limbs (or TK, or one really long limb with suckers or somesuch).
    I disagree on the "on different sides of his body". Drawing clues are especially suspect in this comic when it comes to MitD. Rich probably wasn't putting that much thought into it. He placed the umbrella, filled with black, then added a plate. He probably didn't stop to think if one of the limbs would cross in front of the umbrella.

    This is why we have such sparse knowledge of his limbs. I honestly believe the best that can be said is that he can grab a rope and step on it at the same time. That is the minimum. Beyond that, any combination is acceptable. I will review the drawing book MitD image, see if it restricts it a bit more, but I'm unsure if that counts as canon in the first place.

    But for the record, I believe MitD is likely to have more than a foot and a limb. It is just that the evidence for more is unlikely to come up.

    Grey Wolf
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    There is a world of imagination
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    I disagree on the "on different sides of his body". Drawing clues are especially suspect in this comic when it comes to MitD. Rich probably wasn't putting that much thought into it. He placed the umbrella, filled with black, then added a plate. He probably didn't stop to think if one of the limbs would cross in front of the umbrella.
    Sorry, I switched examples on you without adequate notice. I was talking about the back cover of the Coloring Book, where the crayon is completely between MitD and the viewer, while the piece of paper is on the other side of his body (and partially occluded from the viewer by the Darkness).

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Quote Originally Posted by allenw View Post
    Sorry, I switched examples on you without adequate notice. I was talking about the back cover of the Coloring Book, where the crayon is completely between MitD and the viewer, while the piece of paper is on the other side of his body (and partially occluded from the viewer by the Darkness).
    Fair enough, and like last time, I'll take another look at it. Regardless of my conclusion (on both "can it be just one long limb" and "does it even count as canon") I'll probably make a note in the first post with the evidence. After all, the only creature I can think of with a single prehensile limb, the elephant, has never been a serious contender to being MitD, so I'm not going to crush anyone's dreams if we weakly prefer two-limbed-plus creatures rather than one-limb-plus.

    Grey Wolf
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    There is a world of imagination
    Deep in the corners of your mind
    Where reality is an intruder
    And myth and legend thrive
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

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    Default Re: MitD VI: The Undiscovered Creature (Please Read the First Post)

    Just some complementary information:

    The entry for the Baku in section 3d mentions:
    "probability travel might be a form of teleport (unclear)"

    Under 2nd Ed rules this is a psychoportive science. Sciences are major powers while minor powers are called devotions.
    This science is mentioned in The Complete Psionics Handbook (TCPH, again 2nd ed) on page 64. It is a form of teleportation that functions by travelling through the Astral Plane (which in view of the MitD's remarks on this plane in 833 might be relevant). However it has several drawbacks:
    - as with teleportation, the caster is supposed to travel with the people
    - finding the "color pool" that goes to the destination place takes several hours unless it's a critical success.

    On the other hand 2nd Ed rules also has a psychoportive science Teleport Other(TCPH page 68). It is explicitly for teleporting others (up to three persons), who must be willing or unconcious, and grasping each other if more than one person.

    This is thus not to argue for the Baku (since the probability travel science does not fit the escape scene), but maybe some other monster with access to the Psychoportation Discipline, possibly converted from 2nd Edition.

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