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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    So, guys, who here has tried the Wizards Star Wars RPG that came out in '02? I've recently started up a campaign (as a player for the first time in a while...hooray!) and I've gotta say that the "HP" system really grew on me fast. For those of you who don't know what the crap I'm talking about, WotC went with a Vitality/Wound point division, Vitality representing your ability to, as they say, "roll with the punches" and Wound representing your inherent toughness. In a few short sessions, the Revised Star Wars RPG (SWRPG) flew into the annals of my history as being on par with D&D. Any thoughts?
    -\"There are no Gods. The torment in the world is proof of this. There is only the strong and their will. It is done.\"&&&&-\"Ok, they\'re in front of us, behind us, to our right, and to our left. They can\'t get away this time!\"

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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    I'm currently running a Star Wars d20 game, and for the most part I really like the system, especially VP/WP. I use it in my d20 Modern games (when I remember) and whenever else I can. The starship combat system in it is pretty slow, but it's better than just about any I've seen outside of an out-and-out wargame. I have mixed feelings about how Force Powers work - draining VP sort of makes sense, but I almost would rather have a "mana" type stat, and have the Jedi become fatigued or exhausted if he used too much of that stat.

    But, all in all, an excellent game. At least, the Revised version is; the previous one had a lot of pretty clunky elements.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Im currently running a SW d20 campaign, and for the most part I like th VP/Wound..Definatly makes criticles much more deadly (I recently had a player loose his left forearm becasue I as a DM rolled back to back Nat 20s... I felt bad for him but those are the rules we use (Found in the Heros Guide which is a great book)

    I am lucky though as we as a group have every SWd20 supplement out there I also am a fan of teh Class Defense bonus it allows for IMHO more curagious Heroic Play (Like the Wookie jumping from Speeder to speeder to stop a thief...).. But besideas some initial Misunderstandings on how VP/WP Work and that only by our most DND minded player...We goet along fine and really enjoy it.

    My campaign is currently set 5000 years before a New Hope right before the Sith Hyperspace wars ...If anyone wanted to know
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Yeah, the Revised definitely outshines the original, most especially in its execution of starship battles. It is indeed a bit slow, but it is also far more accurate than any other starship battle system I've seen. To you, Thayan, thank you for "sealing the deal" in demanding that I get a Hero's Guide...I've been tossing it around in my mind, and then you go and throw in how great it is. I tried to order it on Amazon, but the estimated arrival date was in early August, so I spat on that and started looking through my local gaming and book stores. No luck yet, but we'll see. Gorbash, I'm leaning your way on the Force Points thing, but it demands that Jedi be played by more tactically inclined people, which makes me grin real big. My character is a Jedi, mostly because my GM demanded that there be a Jedi and the other two players didn't want to play the part, and I've got to say that it requires an intelligent person to play well. I always like to see RPG makers hard at work maintaining the sacred element of the Star Wars universe. Any regular moron throwing on the robes and picking up the glowing stick of the Jedi Order is not going to have a particularly good character.
    -\"There are no Gods. The torment in the world is proof of this. There is only the strong and their will. It is done.\"&&&&-\"Ok, they\'re in front of us, behind us, to our right, and to our left. They can\'t get away this time!\"

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    I only started playing SWRPG a few months ago, and I really like it. There are times, that I want good ol' fashioned D&D, but for the most part, I'd set them nearly equal with each other.

    I am a really big fan of the VP/WP system, and I think it makes a lot more sense than the HP system (although the HP system really never bothered me all that much, but I know that it drives some people crazy). I also like the way it uses the force. There really isn't a limit on how much of one kind of power you use, but the more you use, the more fatigued and weary you get (aka VP drain). Then as you level up, you not only grow stronger in the force, but you can also use the powers for a longer period of time.

    I think some of the dark side powers are broken (mainly because the best you can ever do, ever, is take half damage), so I'd like to see force defence improved (as of now, it only helps you with your saves, correct?). Since it isn't quite as widespread as D&D, hasn't been exploited quite as bad, but there are some loopholes that a smart player will use to break the game. (One that I've always wanted to try, was a probe droid that had only a video camera on it, and then have a darkside user sitting miles away, using the video feed to choke people through the force)

    There's also several issues with the movies that they need to work out. Absorbing lightning with a lightsaber, absorbing lightning with the force (think about what Yoda did in Episode II/III). Also, force strike needs to be reworked, because in Episode 3 both Yoda and Obi Wan use it, so I'm hard pressed to justify it being an automatic darkside point

    Overall, however, I really like the system, and enjoy playing it.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Quote Originally Posted by Hzurr
    There's also several issues with the movies that they need to work out. Absorbing lightning with a lightsaber, absorbing lightning with the force (think about what Yoda did in Episode II/III).
    These have been fixed, check the SWRPG FAQ on the Wizards web page for the alterations.

    I'm currently playing in a game and overall I rather like the most recent version of the game, however I think that something needs to change with the system of spending VP for force powers. This is due to the fact that a Jedi Consular who is more likely to use force powers to regularly resolve conflict has less VP than a Jedi Gaudian who is more likely to resolve conflict with his or her lightsaber.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Oh this is a kinda House rule I have instituted. Any character at anytime can call upon and use a Darkside pont even if they are non Force users or if they have 0 Force Points or even after the roll. I changed that simply because its too easy not to call upon the darkside under current rules unless you Want too.

    I find it much more interesting when the jedi using a Force point still comes up short and I as DM, "Well you can always Pop a Dark SIde point." Its much more tempting when You know its always there and Mechanically nothing stops you rom calling on it...
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    Ogre in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Also, I'd like to see some kind of Level Adjustment for the different creatures in the Alien anthology. There's some cool stuff in there, but some of it is really broken.

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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    hi hi

    Its funny. I always enjoyed West End's version more than the d20 version, of course there were a few house rules involved, force powers mostly, and beyond those it was mostly the same thing. In any case, I enjoyed it so much that I ended up reverse engineering dnd into the d6 system using the d6 to d20 rules backwards.

    3rd edition starwars is still a fine game though. The vitality and hitpoints separation is by far one of it's best features. On the flip side, free favors for the noble class are confusing.

    edit: I realize that this is a bastion of all things d20, but I mean no offense.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Absorbing the lightning with a lightsaber is something they haven't fixed, but absorbing it with the Force made sense. How does the Force manifest itself in a character? Through Vitality Points. If Yoda makes his save and absorbs the lightning through sheer force of Will, taking half damage from an attack that would on average deal 12 damage (3d8 ), he takes 6, which is how much Force Lightning costs to manifest. In that case, in an average scenario, he and Palpatine in Ep3 stand there, each taking 6 VP damage each round: Palpatine by the exertion of manifesting the Lightning and Yoda by the exertion of defusing it.
    Though the lightsaber part could be explained in a similar fashion, I don't think that's what they had in mind.

    Edit: About the Consular vs. Guardian VP question...I think Consular's should gain a class bonus that makes their Force powers cheaper. Solves the damage issue and the Force issue in one fell swoop.
    -\"There are no Gods. The torment in the world is proof of this. There is only the strong and their will. It is done.\"&&&&-\"Ok, they\'re in front of us, behind us, to our right, and to our left. They can\'t get away this time!\"

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    The biggest upside of d20 Star Wars is its VP/WP System definitly, but I would like to see some changes especially focusing on Force Powers and their VP costs. I thing that some kind manapol wpuld be very useful.

    As for Lightsaber and Force Lightning. I guess it is in the Heroīs Guide...not certain about that. But thereīs en entry what stuff you can deflect with a Lightsaber. Force Lightning is among them.

    What Yoda does when the emporer stroke him with Force Lightning could have been "Dissipate Energy" which allows you to take no damadge from energy based damadge, and as fat I do recall Lightning is some kind of energy. (I'm not certain about that...it may've been a house rule) So you could just dissipate the energy and may even gain VP from it.
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Oh, that's a theory. I can't imagine, though, that Yoda was having an easy time of it. I mean...the more Palpatine put into it, the more he grimaced in relatively obvious pain. I also don't think that Palpatine would have been using it if he thought Yoda could escape unharmed. He is pretty well-versed in the ways of the Force, and would probably refrain from weakening himself over nothing.
    The more important example for what we're discussing, I think, is the fight between Palpatine and Windu. I have no explanation for that one, given that it's probably the lightsaber one.
    -\"There are no Gods. The torment in the world is proof of this. There is only the strong and their will. It is done.\"&&&&-\"Ok, they\'re in front of us, behind us, to our right, and to our left. They can\'t get away this time!\"

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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Quote Originally Posted by Camora
    What Yoda does when the emporer stroke him with Force Lightning could have been "Dissipate Energy" which allows you to take no damadge from energy based damadge, and as fat I do recall Lightning is some kind of energy. (I'm not certain about that...it may've been a house rule) So you could just dissipate the energy and may even gain VP from it.
    Dissipate Energy is based off of what Vader did in Episode V, and if I remember correctly, you're required to have a gauntlet of some kind to use it (which is wierd, but I guess they had to justify why the other characters didn't use it)

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrealAuran
    Oh, that's a theory. I can't imagine, though, that Yoda was having an easy time of it. I mean...the more Palpatine put into it, the more he grimaced in relatively obvious pain. I also don't think that Palpatine would have been using it if he thought Yoda could escape unharmed. He is pretty well-versed in the ways of the Force, and would probably refrain from weakening himself over nothing.
    The more important example for what we're discussing, I think, is the fight between Palpatine and Windu. I have no explanation for that one, given that it's probably the lightsaber one.
    In one of New Jedi Order books, the usage of this "dissipate energy ability" has been descibed. Corran Horn has this ablitly and he uses it in some of the books i.e. "I, Jedi" and some more NJO books.

    And it always hurts him, but it does no damadge, you know itīs like bouncing a stairwalk, where you don't brake yourself any bones. It hurts...but you don't have any wounds. (Did this once as a child... the shocked reaction of my mother was pretty amusing ;) )

    Yet books or movies are no sourcebooks, lets just call it cinematic. It worked that way because George Lucas wanted it to work that way ;).


    Quote Originally Posted by Hzurr

    Dissipate Energy is based off of what Vader did in Episode V, and if I remember correctly, you're required to have a gauntlet of some kind to use it (which is wierd, but I guess they had to justify why the other characters didn't use it)
    I think what you mean is called "block" itīs the ability to deflect without a lightsaber and therefor you need a gauntlet (protectiv gear).
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    No, he's definitely referring to something that doesn't allow you to block a lightsaber. I don't have my RSWRPGH with me, regrettably, but are we sure we're talking about the same system? I don't remember anything named "Block" being in the system I was referring to.
    -\"There are no Gods. The torment in the world is proof of this. There is only the strong and their will. It is done.\"&&&&-\"Ok, they\'re in front of us, behind us, to our right, and to our left. They can\'t get away this time!\"

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    I'm referring to a Jedi Class ability called "block". If you don't have a lightsaber, but some kind of protectiv gear you can use your deflect ability with it. That is called block, i'm pretty sure it is in the Revised Core Rulebook. Itīs not a feat itīs a class abilitiy.
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    *calling a friend to get him to check it for me*

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    It blocks blaster bolts, not lightsabers, though. "This is a modified version of deflect (defense) that allows the Jedi to deflect a ranged attack without the use of a lightsaber. The Jedi must have some sort of protective gear, such as armored gauntlets or an item that can withstand a ranged attack."
    -\"There are no Gods. The torment in the world is proof of this. There is only the strong and their will. It is done.\"&&&&-\"Ok, they\'re in front of us, behind us, to our right, and to our left. They can\'t get away this time!\"

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Huu...*being confused* ;)

    I've ever said that you can use "block" to block a lightsaber attack? Maybe I wasn't totally clear on this. But I meant this:

    Quote Originally Posted by TyrealAuran
    It blocks blaster bolts, not lightsabers, though. "This is a modified version of deflect (defense) that allows the Jedi to deflect a ranged attack without the use of a lightsaber. The Jedi must have some sort of protective gear, such as armored gauntlets or an item that can withstand a ranged attack."
    If I was wrong, it was all fault due to my bad english ;).
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Ah, yes, I see. I gotcha. My mistake, then. I did indeed misunderstand you. Apologies!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thayan
    Oh this is a kinda House rule I have instituted. Any character at anytime can call upon and use a Darkside pont even if they are non Force users or if they have 0 Force Points or even after the roll. I changed that simply because its too easy not to call upon the darkside under current rules unless you Want too.

    I find it much more interesting when the jedi using a Force point still comes up short and I as DM, "Well you can always Pop a Dark Side point." Its much more tempting when You know its always there and Mechanically nothing stops you rom calling on it...
    It's Funny, I see people try to spend dark side points all the time. This is addressed several times in Jedi Couciling (my group used to do it as well) and is the reason my group has a house rule that we call the durned things "Dark side affinity" not Dark side points.

    You don't "spend" dark side points. You accure them. That are as close to alignment as SW has. It is simply a measure of how evil your character is. I find the name to be the big misleading part, since in a stard game you have Vitality points, that are spent for damage, skill points that are spent for ranks, Force Points that are spent for being heroic and Ability points that are spent to give you ability scores.

    All of this while Dark side points are unspendible. This became really evident to my group when we ran a strictly "dark side" game. The way the rules read, if you Called apon the dark side (spent a dark side point) you would 1) get a DSP for calling on the dark side, and likely 2) get a DSP for whatever act you used the point for.

    This would make them a never-ending resource, not all that great for game balance. This is what caused us to go back and read the rules again to figure out how the heck they were SUPPOSED to work.

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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    You're mostly right, except for the way you phrased it. Yes, Dark Side Points are expendible, you just recieve a Dark Side Point for using it.
    Well, at least that's how I've always seen it. There's another interpretation, and I'd really like to know if it's right. The other interpretation is that Force Points are expendible, and you choose when you spend a FP if you want to call on the dark or light side of the Force, and if you choose dark, you get a DSP. This would make for much quicker acquisition of DSP and would overall make more sense.
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Personally, I kinda liked how WEG did the lure of the Dark Side. If you have a DSP, you get a bonus to using all force skills... but, then, you're not resisting the Dark Side, which will eventually lead to the Dark Side. Thus, you had to actively resist the DS, taking a penalty, equal to your DSP, to all force skills.

    In WEG, this was expressed in dice. In d20, I'd just make it a flat bonus or penalty.
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    No, Tyreal, Dark Side Points are NOT expendable. Only expending Force Points, receiving Force Light etc. can decrease your DSP total.
    Dark Side Affinity is a great name for the same mechanic.

    Cael.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrealAuran
    You're mostly right, except for the way you phrased it. Yes, Dark Side Points are expendible, you just recieve a Dark Side Point for using it.
    This was actually how we originally tried to make DSPs work which brought about my research into their proper use. If that were true then a character with 1 DSP would be able to call on the dark side of the force an infinite number of times, which strikes me as a game balance issue, particularly in a strickly darkside game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelestion
    No, Tyreal, Dark Side Points are NOT expendable. Only expending Force Points, receiving Force Light etc. can decrease your DSP total.
    Dark Side Affinity is a great name for the same mechanic.
    Now see that's what I've been tossing around in my head. (Keep in mind I've only been exposed to this system in the past month and don't actually own the handbook, so I've read that section literally once) That's the "other" explanation I was trying to convey in the latter half of my previous post. Thanks for clearing that up, though. It makes far more sense to me that way.
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    Hello folks!

    Wow, this is an old thread but it fit perfectly and I don't have to open another 1.

    Now, I have a problem with Deflect (ATTACK) in the Revised Core Rulebook (RCR). It states that you can send back a blaster bolt that misses you by 5 points or less, with a -4 penality.

    Now, this is IMPOSSIBLE whenever mooks and thugs are attacking you, especially if you are a high level character, which is weird, since you are supposed to be better at doing lightsaber defense (attack and defense).

    Example:
    Master Windu is crossing the battle arena of Geonosis, surrounded by a scores of low level droids.
    At the cost of a Move Action in his next round, he decides to move twice and just deflect (attack, -3) up to 9 (1/2 his level) blaster shot directed at him that miss him by 5 or less. In this way, he's pretty much moving AND attacking. He does not use Deflect (defense + 3) since that would make it even more impossible to miss him by a marging of just 5 points.
    Master Windu, being the well know "Walking death BAMF" has a defense score of 25 (13 for his outstanding coolness and class and +2 for DEX). Having had to face Jango Fett and (you never know) possibly even his more lordly counterpart in dueling just, Count Dooku, a few rounds earlier, he might have well enhanced his DEX by, let's say, 6 points. So he's got DEX 20 now (+5), which gives him a new defense score of 28. The average battle droind, unless is using some unit combined fire, has an attack score of just +0.
    So unless he rolls a natural 20, he'll never ever hit mace. On the other hand, a 20 is always a hit, and you can't deflect or redirect a natural hit (even if it is not a confirmed critical). So, how's mace supposed to redirect the clumsy balster shots aimed at him?

    And more over, how's he going to get simply hit by a non mutilating critical? Double 20 (1 for the natural hit and the other as a crit confirmation) is an amputation (as stated in the Hero's Guide). So if I am a total thickskull with a blaster I can either amputate Master Windu's leg or miss him altogether?

    Uh, that is a bit extreme, but has happened before, even with a simple 6th level Force Adpet 1/Jedi Guardian5. I'd post this on the WOTC forum, but now over there is ALL saga edition, and I am fine with the RCR, so any help from you folks would be terrific!

    Ossian.
    Last edited by Ossian; 2007-10-15 at 06:14 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ossian View Post
    Wow, this is an old thread but it fit perfectly and I don't have to open another 1.
    You are supposed to open another thread if the last post is more than a month and a half old. This thread is two years old.
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    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    Ooooooooopsss...sorry. Thought that if they were not archived they would still be ok, esp. since the topic was almost the same. I'll do that right away then.

    Os.
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Josh the Aspie's Avatar

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    Aug 2007

    Default Re: "New" WotC Star Wars RPG

    I've also run (and played) D20 StarWars, and thus far the Vitality Points are rather hard to describe. Rather than just "You took him down that many hit points" I like to describe the wound they got in. That's rather hard when the person isn't actually wounded... and it's difficult to describe a near miss and make it obvious if this is a miss due to dex, or due to them having some vitality left.

    On top of that, I've got to say that I'm not a really big fan of your special abilities costing you what is basically equivalent to your ability to avoid damage with near misses.

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