New DM Advice?

[Kadin]

So, I've recently started a 4e campaign as a DM. As of right now, I have a group of 4 people, and it is our first time playing. I've already run into a fairly large snag though.

Cleric- Good
Ranger - Unaligned (But leans more towards good.)
Rogue - Unaligned (But leans more towards evil.)
Warlock - Evil.

After our first meeting, I cannot see this ending well at all. For the most part, the party ended up taking drastically different measures to take care of the "quest" they had. Something as simple as getting a trade pass for the caravan they were in ended up taking the entire session, mostly because they were split up the entire time.

What I'd like to know, is if there's any way for this party not to just end up killing each other. I thought there might be a chance at first, but seeing how the first meeting went.... I just can't see it ending any other way.

Also, I did learn a fairly important lesson. I thought I knew what was meant when plans never survive impact with players.... I didn't.

[Ranting Fool]

What I'd like to know, is if there's any way for this party not to just end up killing each other. I thought there might be a chance at first, but seeing how the first meeting went.... I just can't see it ending any other way.

Also, I did learn a fairly important lesson. I thought I knew what was meant when plans never survive impact with players.... I didn't.

Depends how "Good" and how "Evil" they want to play it, generally unless the Players themselves decide to think of a good reason to work together "I need a useful and easy to trick do-good-er to hide my evil ways so I never get in trouble" or "Better this lesser evil warlock using his powers to help defeat the BBEG and save the world, maybe I could talk to him/her/it and teach them the joy of being Good"

if they don't want to do that and just bicker then there isn't much you can do at all (often why I make players create characters together with a common goal or reason for working together) I've never been a fan of PvP in D&D as it tends to get personal rather quickly and in character squabbles turn into real life arguments.

[Badgerish]

A) Welcome to the big chair!

B) The first thing to do is to work out what the campaign is about/what story are you trying to tell (this is mostly the GM's job, but the players play a part in it)

I try to start my campaigns with a Pitch Meeting (or Pitch Thread on a forum) where this is discussed, ideas are bounced off each other etc.

I would start my asking the players what kind of campaign they would like to play, do they want to be:
big damn heroes?
white-hat mercenaries?
black-hat mercenaries?
villains?

What do they want to do:
save/take-over/destroy the world?
save/take-over/destroy the town/city?
carve out their own lands?
go exploring?
go on missions for the king/guild/mama?

Given the characters you have listed... it doesn't actually make that much sense for them to stick together. Hopefully by getting the players to discuss and buy-in to the campaign, they may change their characters/personalities to better fit in.

C) The heavy handed approach for getting a group like this to work together is "the bigger threat". Drop a full-blown Undead/Demon/Far-Realm invasion behind them and let them find an Artefact/passive-NPC that is vitally important to solving the threat. Now it's time to work together to survive!

[Exediron]

C) The heavy handed approach for getting a group like this to work together is "the bigger threat". Drop a full-blown Undead/Demon/Far-Realm invasion behind them and let them find an Artefact/passive-NPC that is vitally important to solving the threat. Now it's time to work together to survive!

You call it the heavy handed approach, but in my experience it works wonderfully. The threat doesn't even need to be persistent - the shared experience of working together and saving each others lives ought to be enough to iron out the critical issues of the group. And if someone isn't bonding properly, well - the big threat gives you the perfect opportunity to eliminate that troublemaker without anyone noticing.

Good and evil characters can work together, and sometimes even quite well - it's down to the particular personalities involved. Typically however, they need some sort of basis to appreciate or respect each other beyond their alignment differences. One may certainly consider a person to be morally incorrect but still a friend.

[Vitruviansquid]

Here's the simple solution.

Tell the players the following and in this order:

1. Who they're going to be.

2. To trade around their contact information

3. To make/figure out a party that makes sense and that can work together.

Boom. Problem solved.

[Kadin]

Depends how "Good" and how "Evil" they want to play it, generally unless the Players themselves decide to think of a good reason to work together "I need a useful and easy to trick do-good-er to hide my evil ways so I never get in trouble" or "Better this lesser evil warlock using his powers to help defeat the BBEG and save the world, maybe I could talk to him/her/it and teach them the joy of being Good"

if they don't want to do that and just bicker then there isn't much you can do at all (often why I make players create characters together with a common goal or reason for working together) I've never been a fan of PvP in D&D as it tends to get personal rather quickly and in character squabbles turn into real life arguments.

I was hoping they would manage to find a common cause at first, but... I admit, I was a bit too afraid of railroading too much, and figured I'd see how it would turn out. So far, it seems like it's going to lead to PvP. I am hoping; however, that it wouldn't lead to anything too personal. We're all pretty good friends, so I would hope it wouldn't get too out of hand ^_^;/.

A) Welcome to the big chair!

B) The first thing to do is to work out what the campaign is about/what story are you trying to tell (this is mostly the GM's job, but the players play a part in it)

I try to start my campaigns with a Pitch Meeting (or Pitch Thread on a forum) where this is discussed, ideas are bounced off each other etc.

I would start my asking the players what kind of campaign they would like to play, do they want to be:
big damn heroes?
white-hat mercenaries?
black-hat mercenaries?
villains?

What do they want to do:
save/take-over/destroy the world?
save/take-over/destroy the town/city?
carve out their own lands?
go exploring?
go on missions for the king/guild/mama?

Given the characters you have listed... it doesn't actually make that much sense for them to stick together. Hopefully by getting the players to discuss and buy-in to the campaign, they may change their characters/personalities to better fit in.

C) The heavy handed approach for getting a group like this to work together is "the bigger threat". Drop a full-blown Undead/Demon/Far-Realm invasion behind them and let them find an Artefact/passive-NPC that is vitally important to solving the threat. Now it's time to work together to survive!

A) Thanks! It's a very scary place to be. Haha...ha....

B) I... probably should have done this from the beginning. Admittedly, I hadn't thought of it. What I ended up doing was creating a world that they could do almost anything in. Threats to the world, check. Lots of opportunities for a bunch of little quests if they want them, check. Plenty of ways to take over the world, check. (Though I hadn't thought of this at first, I realized it wouldn't be too difficult to add.) I will ask them about it next time though, and at least see the answers I get.

C) Yeah, this was one of the ideas I had, but I was thinking that laying on the "Save the World" stuff at level 1, might seem a bit out of place when they can struggle to kill rats. I'll definitely give this a try as well though, as I expect wildly different answers to B, and if nothing else... Well, once they kill each other, perhaps they can just roll a better character x.x;.

Here's the simple solution.

Tell the players the following and in this order:

1. Who they're going to be.

2. To trade around their contact information

3. To make/figure out a party that makes sense and that can work together.

Boom. Problem solved.

I realized this was the simplest solution, but it feels a bit too heavy handed to me to be honest. Mostly #1. 3 was more of my fault for being too lenient during character creation, and while I learned from it, I'm trying to fix it without just telling them to remake their characters, as they are already surprisingly invested in them.

Thanks a lot for the ideas though! Hopefully the next meeting will go a lot better. ^_^;.

[Remmirath]

C) Yeah, this was one of the ideas I had, but I was thinking that laying on the "Save the World" stuff at level 1, might seem a bit out of place when they can struggle to kill rats. I'll definitely give this a try as well though, as I expect wildly different answers to B, and if nothing else... Well, once they kill each other, perhaps they can just roll a better character x.x;.

Giving them a common cause does, in my experience, work best for getting groups of wildly varying alignments to work together. It doesn't have to be 'save the world' level, though; if they all end up on the bad side of a common foe, or are chased by the same threat, they may band together to survive it anyhow if it's simply powerful enough that they realise they need each other's help.

Or, if you want to work up to 'save the world' eventually, you can start by laying hints that they will have to down the road - if they're the only/first ones who learn about it, even if they're nowhere near ready to take it on, it might keep them working together. All of that depends somewhat on the temperment of the characters and players in question, of course (and what you have in mind for your campaign).

Good luck, in any case!