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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    End Magic
    Abjuration
    Level: Clr 9, Sor/Wiz 9
    Components: V, S, M
    Casting Time: 1 full round action
    Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Target: One spellcaster within range
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will negates, Fortitude half (see text)
    Spell Resistance: No

    You utter a horrid word in a magical tongue, and all magic in your designated target is broken. Upon completing this spell, the target must succeed on a Will save or immediately loses all prepared spells, spell slots, and spell like abilities for the day, as the magic inside him shatters. The loosed power then unleashes itself in a horrid blast of destruction with a radius of 30 feet as bolts of power arc from the target into everything around him, doing 1d6 damage for every spell lost to the initial target, 1d6 for every two spells lost to creatures within 15 feet of the target, and 1d6 for every three spells lost out to 30 feet. For the purpose of at-will spells and spell like abilities, the power is discharged only once, and the target may not use the ability for one whole round after being hit by this spell. A successful Fortitude save reduces this damage by half. Finally, treat the initial target and his gear as being hit by Mage's Disjunction, everything within the first 15 feet of the target is treated as being hit by a Greater Dispel Magic effect, and everything in the outer 15 feet of the target is treated as being hit by a Dispel Magic effect.

    Material Component: A scroll containing Mage's Disjunction, Greater Dispel Magic and Dispel Magic.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2012-12-10 at 09:28 PM.

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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    1. I wouldn't make it universal; I'd make it abjuration, or maybe evocation.

    2. As written, this lets you use a willing low-to-medium caster as an extremely powerful bomb with no saves involved. You might want to give some thought to reducing such abuse, perhaps by capping the damage done in a radius and subjecting it to a reflex save (the target itself would still take full damage with only the will save.)

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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Agreed. Reflex halves would be good, love the idea.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    I had a very hard time placing this spell into a school, so the input on that is very appreciated. Will probably go Abjuration (same school as the dispel spells).

    As for saves, I think I might go fort half, as opposed to reflex. Makes the spell far more useful. Will put in flavor text to explain why.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    The spell is terribly broken. It may as well be 1d6 damage per spell.

    Let's not talk about how at-will abilities work. I suppose it's ineffective against psionics, luckily.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    The spell is terribly broken.
    In what specific way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    Let's not talk about how at-will abilities work.
    You brought up a good point with at-will SLAs. Since you don't want to talk about it, I'll just point out I fixed this in the spell's text.

    Quote Originally Posted by Network View Post
    I suppose it's ineffective against psionics, luckily.
    It is, currently. I'm currently attempting to create a power with roughly the same psionic effect, but it...special to calculate. The flexibility of psionics is nice to play, but it can make it a PITA to calculate stuff sometimes.

  7. - Top - End - #7
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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Used on a 15th level wizard with 22 Int (about the minimum Int at that level) this deals 126d6 damage in 30-ft Fort halves; i.e. on a successful save it will almost take out a balor standing near the wizard and might even take out a pit fiend. That's too much damage on an AoE.

    Used on a balor, even, you end up dealing 70d6 damage which is enough to kill a pit fiend if it fails its save, and cripple a balor (45 hp if they fail on average) not to mention possibly one-hit 20th level characters standing adjacent. Even this is more than twice the damage on powerful AoEs (Maw of Chaos does ~22d6 at 20th level and is a 9th level AoE people use, and while it's possible to get it higher you'll be hard pressed to break 35d6 at which point you might as well just spam Holy Word anyway).

    Then you have the Disjunction, and Dispel Effects.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    The disjunction and dispel effects aren't so overpowered for a 9th level spell...the real problem is the uncapped damage. Hence my suggestion that the damage done to nearby creatures (though not the primary target) be capped in addition to being subject to a save.

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    Deepbluediver's Avatar

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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    I acknowledge that I tend to favor a lower level of power than the core RAW describes, but am I the only one who thinks this is extremely unbalanced?

    It seems like it's the ultimate version of rocket-tag for casters. It doesn't help melee at all, because they don't get 9th level spell slots, and if you suceed in hitting a caster with it, they're basically done, kaput, for the whole day, even if they survive the massive damage. Plus, at high levels magic is so common it would be hard to imagine a situation where this spell is entirely useless.

    Going by the old Homebrew standby rule for judging, I can't imagine a Wizard or Sorcerer NOT preparing/learning this spell.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2012-09-10 at 08:32 PM.
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    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    I changed the damage to 1d6 per spell lost. That any better?

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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Hm. I admit I'm ambivalent about this spell. On the one hand, it's pretty nice as a way of saying 'Screw you tier 1, I do what I want!' On the other hand, it's also incredibly powerful, even with the costly material component that takes time to make, and requires you -already- have another 9th level spell or someone in the party have that 9th level spell, kind of making a 9.5th level spell. The scroll takes 6 days to make, as I doubt you're going to find many scrolls with that particular combination of spells.

    I dunno. I feel like a few more restrictions on it would bring it solidly down to 9th level. Perhaps ensuring that casting the spell actually uses up the scroll takes it from the tier of 'Why wouldn't everyone take this spell to deal with Xykon-level opponents?' down to 'Okay, this makes a great last-ditch effort usable once a week.' If you're going to spam this spell willy-nilly, you need near-epic level casters working for you, constantly crafting scrolls for you, which DMs can easily stop if it gets out of control.

    Also, just as a tidbit, perhaps it should have significantly less effect on dabblers. Perhaps ignore 1st and 0th level spell slots, and simply have them lose those with no damage?

    Ah, and crunching the numbers on damage...let's look at it with and without the adjustment I suggested. Against an 11th level Wizard, assuming 18 INT, that spell will deal 17d6 if you ignore 1st and 0th level spells, or 25d6 if you don't. That's quite a bit of damage for even a midlevel caster, and the number goes up significantly against sorcerers.

    Against a 15th level Wizard, this is more ruinous. Assuming 22 INT, it'll do 27d6 damage with my adjustment, or a whopping 37d6 if you don't.

    Even with it being something that targets a very specific subset of opponents, it's pretty ruinous. I'd say give it Disintegrate's damage cap of 40d6. It's forcing two saves, but it's also doing tons of damage, and turning someone into something pretty ineffective. Sure, they can still use rods, wands, and scrolls if they survive, and it makes a pretty effective anti-mage weapon, but it's only an anti-mage weapon, and it takes a week to prepare.

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    Deepbluediver's Avatar

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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    I changed the damage to 1d6 per spell lost. That any better?
    Actually, the damage wasn't the part I was most concerned with.
    For many high level characters, spells are pretty much their entire schtick, and losing them all in one go is a pretty nasty effect. A druid's Wild Shape manages to survive because it's a Supernatural and not a Spell-like ability, but clerics are reduced to fighters without the feats and wizards and sorcerers are all but helpless. AND it destroys magic items.

    Basically, if this spell targeted melee, it would be the equivalent of saying "the spells destroys all weapons, armor, and other gear on your person....and your arms fall off".

    There are several things you could do to keep the feel of targeting magical essence, such as having it only eliminate the highest level of spells, allowing seperate saves to avoid losing each level of spells, temporarily prevent casting but not actually destroying spell slots, etc.

    It's designed for use against casters, obviously, but against a caster there is nothing better. It sort of eclipses anything else I can think of.

    I picture every Mage-duel rapidly turning into:

    Wizard: I have prepared every one of my 9th level spell slots with End Magic!
    Sorcerer: I too have learned this epic spell, and I have more spell slots than you!
    Wizard: Very well, let us begin the fight to determine who's Will Save is better!

    Quote Originally Posted by Der_DWSage View Post
    Hm. I admit I'm ambivalent about this spell. On the one hand, it's pretty nice as a way of saying 'Screw you tier 1, I do what I want!'
    *snip*
    But only other tier 1's or 2's will be able to cast it, so it's not like it doing much for game balance.

    Also, the scroll is listed as a "Focus" and not a material component; if I understand the rules correctly, this means that one scroll, once prepared, can be used to cast the spell an infinite number of times.

    I'm sure other people will disagree, but my opinion is that in it's current incarnation, no amount of restrictions will make this an enjoyable spell to have in the game: it's still a very powerful, very binary sort of effect.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2012-09-11 at 06:04 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Wizard: I have prepared every one of my 9th level spell slots with End Magic!
    Sorcerer: I too have learned this epic spell, and I have more spell slots than you!
    Wizard: Very well, let us begin the fight to determine who's Will Save is better!
    Actually, the winner (at least if damage to secondary targets is capped) will be whoever was smart enough to bring a fighter (or other noncaster) along...End Magic isn't very good against a fighter.

    EDIT: Actually, I suppose he could use lower-level slots then...fighters really need a boost against mages in direct combat.
    Last edited by Yitzi; 2012-09-12 at 06:41 AM.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Casting time increased to full round action, focus increased to a staff containing all three spells. Using this spell now takes a considerable chunk of your WBL (95,533.2GP, if I did the creation costs right).

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    Default Re: "I will end you with your own power!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Casting time increased to full round action, focus increased to a staff containing all three spells. Using this spell now takes a considerable chunk of your WBL (95,533.2GP, if I did the creation costs right).
    Though note that causing the staff to consume 50 charges on any spell would decrease that cost drastically.
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