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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Multiclassed Casting Variant (PEACH)

    This system is designed to make it viable to multiclass with casting classes. It provides much more flexibility than the prestige classes that do the same thing. The variant is not compatible with multiclass casting prestige classes such as mystic theurge nor eldritch knight.

    The table below provides your effective level in a casting class for caster level, spell progression and progression of level dependent class features like turning, wild shape or bardic music. You still need enough levels in the relevant class to gain any class features but not to progress in them. For example you need 5 real levels in druid to progress in wild shape at all, but from there you gain all the wild shape benefits of a druid of the level given by the table, including new creature types. The row contains your class levels that advance casting in the relevant class. The column contains your class levels that don't advance casting in the relevant class. If levels in another class advance the same type as casting (arcane, divine, psionic) as the relevant class then its levels count for half in the relevant class (round down) and half not (round up). So a druid 10/cleric 2 would look at row 11, column 1 for his druid casting (11) and row 7, column 5 for his cleric casting (9).

    Table: Effective Caster Level
    (Row = class levels that advance casting in the relevant class)
    (Column = class levels in other classes)
    {table] | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19
    1 | 1 | 2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6
    2 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 |
    3 | 3 | 4 | 4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | |
    4 | 4 | 5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | | |
    5 | 5 | 6 | 6 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 8 | | | |
    6 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 8 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | | | | |
    7 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | 10 | | | | | |
    8 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 11 | 11 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | | | | | | |
    9 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 11 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 13 | 13 | | | | | | | |
    10 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 12 | 13 | 13 | 13 | 14 | 14 | 14 | | | | | | | | |
    11 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 14 | 14 | 15 | 15 | 15 | | | | | | | | | |
    12 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 15 | 16 | 16 | 16 | | | | | | | | | | |
    13 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 16 | 17 | 17 | | | | | | | | | | | |
    14 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 17 | 18 | | | | | | | | | | | | |
    15 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 18 | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
    16 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
    17 | 17 | 18 | 19 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
    18 | 18 | 19 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
    19 | 19 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
    [/table]

    The system also makes dual classing viable for any race and makes racial favored classes much more relevant for dips than they were with heavy prestiging. I would suggest reinstating favored classes if you ditched them, and as always rarely should anyone actually multiclass in a way that causes an xp penalty. OTOH do note that the bonus experience for being behind a level approximately cancels out the xp penalty. So each multiclassing penalty is effectively worth around -1 level. Perhaps not always the worst thing in the world for rare specialized builds.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-09-19 at 10:18 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2012

    Default Re: Multiclassed Casting Variant (PEACH)

    Nice idea. Not sure it is really balanced, though, as most arcane spellcasters will exchange familiar abilities for a better BAB or more hp.

    This is definitely too powerful in epic.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

    Join Date
    May 2012

    Default Re: Multiclassed Casting Variant (PEACH)

    One thing this does is encourage people to pile on classes of the same casting type. At character level 10, an even-leveled Druid/Cleric (5/5) is effectively level 7 in each class. At that same character level, an even Cleric/Druid/Spirit Shaman/Favored Soul/Shugenja (2/2/2/2/2) is... also level 7 in each. And they both stay pretty consistently three class levels behind their character level in all of their classes.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Multiclassed Casting Variant (PEACH)

    I see, that part didn't come out very well. I think I need to change the cap so it's something like -1 level per added class of the same type. Either explicitly or through adjusting how things stack.

    I may have to change the caps to account for class features so it's a little behind mystic theurge too.

    Edits to come after I tweak some formulas.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-09-19 at 08:46 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Midwest, not Middle East
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Multiclassed Casting Variant (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by ericgrau View Post
    I may have to change the caps to account for class features so it's a little behind mystic theurge too.
    You could instead throw out mystic theurge entirely; it's not as though it has class features so allowing wizard 10/cleric 10 to cast like a wizard 17 and a cleric 17 is very similar to a wizard 3 cleric 3 mystic theurge 14... barring the fact that mystic theruge is 10 levels long pre-epic. If you want a Mystic Theurge class to exist you can make a different mystic theurge PrC more like the later PrCs that blend two casting types and also have class features (Ultimate Magus, for example).

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Multiclassed Casting Variant (PEACH)

    I found a major error in my formulas and updated the tables to address it. For now it caps at 14/14 casting for a dual class, but you also get 10 levels of class features from each class and an effective level of 14 for those features. I'll have to put some thought into balance next but at least now I fixed the basic formula.

    Just to test it out: A wizard 5/cleric 5 has 7/7 casting; same as a theurge (but it gets worse at level 20). A druid 10/cleric 10 has 18/18 casting. A druid 4/cleric 4 has 7/7 casting. A druid 5/cleric 5 has 9/9 casting. A Cleric 2/Druid 2/Spirit Shaman 2/Favored Soul 2/Shugenja 2 has 8/8/8/8/8 casting. A cleric 3/druid 3/spirit shaman 3 has 8/8/8 casting too and is 1 level lower. Plus you get wildshape on the druid 5/cleric 5 and not on the others. A wizard 8/cleric 8 has 11/11 casting. A theurge caps at 13/13 but lacks BAB, hp and turning.

    The table is fairly dip friendly now too.

    I dunno though, even with class features & etc. is the 14/14 casting too low?
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2012-09-20 at 02:24 PM.
    So you never have to interrupt a game to look up a rule again:
    My 3.5e Rules Cheat Sheets: Normal, With Consolidated Skill System
    TOGC's 3.5e Spell/etc Cards: rpgnow / drivethru rpg
    Utilities: Magic Item Shop Generator (Req. MS Excel), Balanced Low Magic Item System
    Printable Cardstock Dungeon Tiles and other terrain stuff (100 MB)

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