Simplifying 3.5-- thoughts and plans

[Grod_The_Giant]

I very much enjoy the feel of 3.5. There's a certain flavor to D&D that isn't captured by other systems-- the spells, the classes, the sheer iconic-ness. I like the range of mechanical options. Nonetheless, there are elements of the complexity that bug me.

Basically, I'm looking to create something that's recognizable as 3.5 D&D, but is easier for a new player to pick up and learn. And if balance can be improved along the way, well...

Here are my ideas so far.

• Remove ability modifiers. Why? They're just silly. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single situation where your full ability score is what matters. All modifiers do is add an extra layer of complexity. They're easy enough to take out.
• No "Christmas Tree" effect, with its focus on artificially inflated numbers. This way, loot focus shifts towards legendary weapons and all the weird and fun magic items that are actually iconic.
• Recharging abilities, rather than daily ones. This is personal preference, I suppose, but it's a personal project, so eh.
• Simplified Combat Maneuvers. Part balance, part preference. No-one grapples because the rules are too long. No-one but specialized builds trip, no-one bull rushes, all because things are too cumbersome. Let's cut out the dead weight in the rules here; use Combat Maneuver Bonuses from Pathfinder and such.
• Fewer Classes with more options. Because you should be able to play one class from 1-20 and have fun with it the whole way, then play it again and have a substantially different character.
• ...Something with Feats? I'd like for feats to actually add abilities-- such as metamagic, or power attack-- rather than just giving incremental bonuses. I'd also like to have all feats be good feats.
• No Prepared Casters. Another personal one. Yes, they're probably iconic D&D, but it's been my experience that no-one wants to play a prepared caster because of the sheer prep time of preparing spells; never mind the horrible things they do to balance.
• Compatability with published material. Ideally, all rule changes would be simple and/or fundamental enough that preexisting races, classes, feats and spells could all be added in. Really, I'm going for a new, more balanced Core, to which subsystems and splatbooks could be plugged in.

[Shpadoinkle]

[*]Remove ability modifiers. Why? They're just silly. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single situation where your full ability score is what matters. All modifiers do is add an extra layer of complexity. They're easy enough to take out.[/LIST]

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what you're trying to say.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Could you rephrase this? I don't know what you're trying to say.

Replacing ability modifiers with ability scores. Basically, you take all ability scores, subtract 10 and divide by two, just like you do to find the modifier. Then you delete the word "modifier" from class abilities and such, and divide any boosts by two. So, instead of having a Strength score of, oh, 16 and a modifier of +3, you just have a Strength score of 3. When someone casts Bulls' Strength on you, instead of a +4 bonus that raises your modifier by 2, you just get a +2 bonus.

[toapat]

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single situation where your full ability score is what matters.

i can, and they are the only two in the game as far as i can tell.

The Strength check to break down barriers/break things runs off of strength score, not Strength mod

Same with the saves in the Suffocation/Drowning rules.

there might be something else, but not as far as i can tell

[Grod_The_Giant]

i can, and they are the only two in the game as far as i can tell.

The Strength check to break down barriers/break things runs off of strength score, not Strength mod

Same with the saves in the Suffocation/Drowning rules.

there might be something else, but not as far as i can tell

Poking around the srd... suffocation, yes. Carrying strength, yes. Don't see anything in breaking objects, though-- it just says "Strength Check." Both points are pretty easy to fix: Suffocation becomes 2 minutes + 2 rounds per point of Constitution, while carrying capacity just loses a few increments.

[toapat]

Poking around the srd... suffocation, yes. Carrying strength, yes. Don't see anything in breaking objects, though-- it just says "Strength Check." Both points are pretty easy to fix: Suffocation becomes 2 minutes + 2 rounds per point of Constitution, while carrying capacity just loses a few increments.

every To Break DC is given in strength score

oh, i did this to alleviate WBL problems

[erikun]

Remove ability modifiers. Why? They're just silly. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single situation where your full ability score is what matters. All modifiers do is add an extra layer of complexity. They're easy enough to take out.

What about the ability score increase every four levels? What about using Wish or items in increase ability scores? Are these now twice as effective?

Simplified Combat Maneuvers. Part balance, part preference. No-one grapples because the rules are too long. No-one but specialized builds trip, no-one bull rushes, all because things are too cumbersome. Let's cut out the dead weight in the rules here; use Combat Maneuver Bonuses from Pathfinder and such.

Actually, nobody uses them because they are typically too ineffective. Overrun is basically similar to tripping, but with bigger penalities and being unable to affect more opponents. Bull rushing isn't really more complex than tripping, it's just that moving opponents around the battlefield just isn't something useful.

...Something with Feats? I'd like for feats to actually add abilities-- such as metamagic, or power attack-- rather than just giving incremental bonuses. I'd also like to have all feats be good feats.

Feats are kind of a grab-bag of various options, and nobody at WotC likely thought about what they "should" be. This is why you have Alertness and Toughness right next to Leap Attack and Divine Metamagic.

No Prepared Casters. Another personal one. Yes, they're probably iconic D&D, but it's been my experience that no-one wants to play a prepared caster because of the sheer prep time of preparing spells; never mind the horrible things they do to balance.

That's funny; I generally prefer playing prepared casters because I don't want to take the enormous prep time involved in combing a spontaneous caster's spell list to weed out the poor spells. With a Cleric, if I pick a bad spell, I can replace it the next day. With a Sorcerer or Bard, I'm lucky if I get the chance to do so four months later.

[Waargh!]

Remove ability modifiers: simple
No "Christmas Tree" effect: elaborate a bit please?
Simplified Combat Maneuvers: so we can use pathfinder rules
No Prepared Casters: not so hard to change

Fewer Classes with more options:
...Something with Feats?: My preferred system to gain those two requirements is to have a Class that gives the fluff and maybe some basic bonuses and the Abilities that you acquire like feats give the actual mechanics. So if you want to be a Ninja you can go full melee, full ranged, maybe partial melee and ranged, maybe add some magic and the possibilities are endless. A Paladin can follow same logic. Abilities then can be organized in Ability trees and a more elaborate system, but essentially you just organize everything into an Ability system.

Recharging abilities, rather than daily ones: if everything is an ability this is much easier to manage. Now you have various different systems, points, spells, whatever else each class uses. If you have only one, like 4E, it is easier to change and manage. As a stupid example, if you were playing 4E and you didn't like dailies, you could simply substitute for an encounter one. That would be one line rule and solve your problem, where in 3.5 to achieve the same it is much harder.

Compatability with published material: with the above you gain also a better compatibility. I would add also everything being a Skill (i.e. attack, saves, DCs etc). Essentially if you minimize the mechanics you can better balance and manage it. It is much easier to homebrew also. Think of making a new class, how troublesome it is. If you could just add the base class and one or two unique abilities and re-use the rest, that will make it much easier. Think of making a core Ninja class by adding a couple of abilities and then getting some from the Rogue, Fighter and additionally some spells.

[Grod_The_Giant]

No "Christmas Tree" effect: elaborate a bit please?

Balance in 3.5 depends to a large degree on magic items. The basic math of the system assumes that at higher levels, you're buying enchanted swords, headbands of intellect, cloaks of resistance and the like. I want to cut that down, so characters can stand on their own, and magic items are a rare bonus-- and, preferably, scaling.

Fewer Classes with more options:
...Something with Feats?: My preferred system to gain those two requirements is to have a Class that gives the fluff and maybe some basic bonuses and the Abilities that you acquire like feats give the actual mechanics. So if you want to be a Ninja you can go full melee, full ranged, maybe partial melee and ranged, maybe add some magic and the possibilities are endless. A Paladin can follow same logic. Abilities then can be organized in Ability trees and a more elaborate system, but essentially you just organize everything into an Ability system.

Recharging abilities, rather than daily ones: if everything is an ability this is much easier to manage. Now you have various different systems, points, spells, whatever else each class uses. If you have only one, like 4E, it is easier to change and manage. As a stupid example, if you were playing 4E and you didn't like dailies, you could simply substitute for an encounter one. That would be one line rule and solve your problem, where in 3.5 to achieve the same it is much harder.

Compatability with published material: with the above you gain also a better compatibility. I would add also everything being a Skill (i.e. attack, saves, DCs etc). Essentially if you minimize the mechanics you can better balance and manage it. It is much easier to homebrew also. Think of making a new class, how troublesome it is. If you could just add the base class and one or two unique abilities and re-use the rest, that will make it much easier. Think of making a core Ninja class by adding a couple of abilities and then getting some from the Rogue, Fighter and additionally some spells.

I think you just described True20? Which isn't a bad thing, for sure, but is a bit more extreme than I'd like to go.