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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedKnightGirl

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    Default Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    So, I can't find the rules on level adjustment for pretty much anything, and reading features of some races, and they begin to look a little crazy, so do any of the following need a +1 Level Adjustment: Aasimar, Drow, Kitsune, or Tiefling?

    I'm assuming +1 for each would be appropriate, and might possibly gut/nerf the Drow's SR in the setting.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    The pathfinder races listed in your post are the equivalent of a LA 0 race. LA in pathfinder got replaced by race points in Ultimate races. They work similar to the UA LA buyoff variant only that it doesn't cost XP and IIRC happens every 5 or 6 levels.

    Drow SR is useful but ultimately unreliable. They still need to spend a standard action (or an immediate with a feat) to receive a buff. Partial caster's caster level is now Class level - 3 rather than class level / 2, making their abilities much more reliable vs creatures with SR.
    Last edited by peacenlove; 2012-10-01 at 07:25 AM.

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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    DruidGirl

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    Pathfinder doesn't really do the Level Adjustment thing... They usually try to tone down the playable races to be on par with the base races (letting them buy back some iconic-but-overpowered stuff through feats).

    I just read those 4 races on the SRD, though. The kitsune and drow definitely don't deserve any LA... The drow's Spell Resistance is only 6+HD, meaning a spellcaster of equal level only needs to roll a 6 on their caster level check to overcome it. A nice perk, but a 25% chance to ignore a spell shouldn't be game-breaking - especially when higher-threat casters will have a higher caster level, and possibly feats to boost it. Kitsune are even less impressive, with their dagger-strength bite attack and tiny bonus to Enchantment DCs.

    Tieflings and aasimars are a bit more significant... They both get resistance 5 to three types of damage, immunity to humanoid-only effects because they're outsiders, and the aasimar has no attribute penalty (what the hell, Hell? Why can't you make tieflings weakness-free like that?). If you made them pick one of the elemental resistances instead of getting all three, or if you replaced them with some SR against good/evil spells, that should keep them well out of any LA. Especially if you gave the aasimar an attribute penalty... *shakes a fist at the aasimars*

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwoka View Post
    (what the hell, Hell? Why can't you make tieflings weakness-free like that?)
    Because pretty people are better than ugly people, obviously. More to the point, when the ability to play monsters and such first came out they purposely over-LA'd evil things because they were afraid of players making evil characters and messing up the rest of the party, tieflings were kind of hit as a side-effect and it got grandfathered into Pathfinder.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    The base stats for drow are actually slightly overpowered. Here's a RP 10 Drow race I put together:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Dark Elf
    Drow are hated by most races because most of their sects worship demons and practice slavery.
    +0) +2 Dexterity, +2 Charisma, -2 Constitution: Drow are nimble and manipulative.
    +0) Medium Humanoid (elf)
    +0) Drow have a base speed of 30 feet.
    +3) Darkvision: Drow can see in the dark up to 120 feet.
    -2) Light Blindness: Abrupt exposure to bright light blinds drow for 1 round; on subsequent rounds, they are dazzled (-1 to attack and Perception) as long as they remain in the affected area.
    +4) Spell-Like Abilities: Once per day a drow with a Charisma score of 12 or higher may cast the following spells: dancing lights, darkness, faerie fire (caster level equals the drow's total Hit Dice).
    +2) Drow have a +2 racial bonus to Will saves against spells and spell-like abilities.
    +2) Keen Senses: Drow receive a +2 racial bonus on Perception skill checks.
    +1) Languages: Drow speak Common, Elven, and Undercommon. Elves with high Intelligence scores can choose any of the following bonus languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Gnome, Goblin, Sylvan.
    Drow may take feats to gain the following:
    * Detect magic as a constant spell-like ability. For every two ranks in Knowledge (arcana) after the first the drow gains one use per day of any of the following spell-like abilities: feather fall, levitate, deeper darkness (requires 5 ranks), divine favor, dispel magic (requires 5 ranks), spider climb, suggestion (requires 5 ranks). Prerequisites: Charisma 13.
    * No light blindness.
    "...I worry that modern gaming is gradually shrinking the wide spectrum of gameplay mechanics into a single narrow red bar with "KILL" written on it sideways. Exploration, navigation, puzzles, platforming, all gradually shrinking away until only one thing remains, being taken by the hand from room to room, moving on only when nothing remains alive in each one." - Yhatzee Crosshaw

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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    The RP rules are not in any way balanced. Drow are underpowered because con penalties are a very bad thing for a race to have and because almost nothing uses both dex and cha to a major degree. (Yes, yes mysterious strangers, I did say almost.)

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    Am I the only one who thought it was incredibly stupid to actually assign points to languages?

    Why is something that is the majority of the time a fluff/roleplaying aspect of the game (yes, yes, there are some language dependent spells and some skills that may or may not take penalties, but when does that actually impede High Int guys who have the bonus int to take languages and the skill points to dump into Linguistics) actually a determining mechanical aspect of race creation now?

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    Quote Originally Posted by Troll Brau View Post
    Am I the only one who thought it was incredibly stupid to actually assign points to languages?

    Why is something that is the majority of the time a fluff/roleplaying aspect of the game (yes, yes, there are some language dependent spells and some skills that may or may not take penalties, but when does that actually impede High Int guys who have the bonus int to take languages and the skill points to dump into Linguistics) actually a determining mechanical aspect of race creation now?
    They fixed that one in the final release of the book, Common+Racial Language costs 0 RP. Only human language proficiencies cost RP, and even then humans are only 9 RP. A quick houserule is to let a human pick one skill, which is either a bonus class skill or gets a +1 bonus to checks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Saidoro View Post
    The RP rules are not in any way balanced. Drow are underpowered because con penalties are a very bad thing for a race to have and because almost nothing uses both dex and cha to a major degree. (Yes, yes mysterious strangers, I did say almost.)
    Yeah, players can min-max all sorts of things with the ARG. It's still a great tool for GMs.
    Last edited by Thomar_of_Uointer; 2012-10-01 at 10:38 AM.
    "...I worry that modern gaming is gradually shrinking the wide spectrum of gameplay mechanics into a single narrow red bar with "KILL" written on it sideways. Exploration, navigation, puzzles, platforming, all gradually shrinking away until only one thing remains, being taken by the hand from room to room, moving on only when nothing remains alive in each one." - Yhatzee Crosshaw

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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomar_of_Uointer View Post
    They fixed that one in the final release of the book, Common+Racial Language costs 0 RP. Only human language proficiencies cost RP, and even then humans are only 9 RP. A quick houserule is to let a human pick one skill, which is either a bonus class skill or gets a +1 bonus to checks.
    Huh, I didn't notice that in the final copy. Argument retracted.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Goblin

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    Default Re: Pathfinder Drow and Level Adjustment

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomar_of_Uointer View Post
    Yeah, players can min-max all sorts of things with the ARG. It's still a great tool for GMs.
    I'm going to be a bit blunt here, I apologize in advance if doing so casues any offense, such is not my intent. Any system which ranks Human, Grippli and Lizardfolk below Tengu, Drow and Aasimar is objectively wrong.
    The RP system is a useful guideline for beginning DMs, but stating that anything is over or underpowered because of the number of RPs it has is equally wrong.

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