Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default [PF] Untranslatable: A Pathfinder Truenamer Update/Fix

    Foreward:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Well, I finally have a hard copy of Tome of Magic, and of course my brain decides that what I really need to do is make a PF conversion/"fix" of the Truenamer, when I have hundreds of other projects to be working on. As much of the Truenamer is copyrighted by the coastal wizards, what I'll be posting here is what should be changed or updated. I owe a great debt to Zaq, who by now deserves to be permanently installed in the GitP pantheon as the god of truenamers.


    Design Goals:

    Spoiler
    Show
    1. Instead of creating lots of entirely new content, I aim to tweak existing content to keep this "update" as close to the original as is wise. I want to improve and expand existing class features to make them more useful and relevant as the truenamer levels.
    2. I'm hoping to create a solid tier 3-4 secondary arcanist around the power level of the 3.5 Warlock or the PF Alchemist, potentially also aiding the party as a party face, skillmonkey, and secondary melee combatant, depending on specialization.
    3. For the most part, the changes made will be a direct power boost to the somewhat underwhelming 3.5 version (with the possible exception of Gate as a SLA).
    4. I hope to remove all dead levels for the truenamer; failing that, I hope to remove all dead even levels (as PF characters get a feat every odd level.



    Truenaming

    Truespeak checks are skill checks with a DC equal to 15+the target's HD for creatures, or 15+caster level for a magic item. For truespeak checks that affect an area, the DC is 10+(utterance levelx5).
    Spoiler
    Show
    15+(CRx2) is just ridiculous and forces truenamers to optimize or die.. CR is also a metagame concept that should be ignored by DMs at a moment's notice, while HD is a firm, identifiable number.


    The Law of Resistance applies as written in Tome of Magic.

    The Law of Sequence does not exist; a truenamer can keep any number of the same utterance active at the same time, assuming she is able to continue making her Truespeak DC's.

    The Truenamer

    Hit Die: d8
    Spoiler
    Show
    Standard PF upgrade for a 3/4 BAB class.

    Skills: Truenamers have access to the following skills: Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Bluff (Cha), Diplomacy (Cha), Fly (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (All, taken individually) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), Truespeak (Int) and Use Magic Device (Cha).
    Spoiler
    Show
    Several times in the Truenamer text, they're called out as being excellent orators; I gave them the big four social skills. There is no reason why they shouldn't have Linguistics, and I generally added all Int-based skills. They don't really need all these class skills because of the PF skill system, but it's a nice little boost.

    Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier.

    Weapon and Armor proficiencies: As printed in the Tome of Magic, page 200.

    Know Personal Truename: As printed in the Tome of Magic, page 200.

    Utterances (Sp): As printed in the Tome of Magic, page 200, with the following change: The save DC vs. an utterance is equal to 10+1/2 truenamer level+Int modifier.

    Message (Sp): A truenamer can message other creatures (as the spell) with a caster level equal to her character level. The truenamer does not need to make a Truespeak check to use this ability.

    Knowledge Focus (Su): As printed in the Tome of Magic, page 200.

    Syllable of Pain (Sp): At third level, the truenamer can let off a piercing shriek that harms and disables a foe. With a successful Truespeak check, one opponent within 60 ft. takes 2d6 sonic damage + 1d6 for every three truenamer levels beyond 3rd level (to a maximum of 7d6 at level 18) and is staggered for one round. A successful Fortitude save of 10+(1/2 truenamer level)+Int halves this damage and negates the staggered effect. At level 11, the target is dazed on a failed save instead of staggered.

    Spoiler
    Show
    I want to add some way for the Truenamer to do sonic damage. This is just one idea; tell me what you think in the comments.


    Calm Resistance (Su) At level 4, the truenamer learns to undo the tension she has built up in the universe with her abilities. By spending one minute in concentration, a truenamer can reset the Law of Resistance on all of her abilities that use truespeak. This includes utterances, class features, and feats that make use of the truespeak skill. The truenamer can use this ability once per day at 4th level, and one additional time per day at every 5 levels beyond 4, to a maximum of 4 times per day at level 19.

    Truename Research: As printed in the Tome of Magic, page 200 (though see Feats below).

    Bonus Recitation Feat: As printed in the Tome of Magic, page 200 (though see Feats below).

    See the Named (Su): As printed in the Tome of Magic, page 200, but you gain an additional use of this ability at level 12, 15, and 18. At level 16, you no longer need to know the personal truename of the creature to use this ability (though you still need to make a successful Truespeak check and have some sort of connection to the creature, as the scry spell). As with most Truespeak checks, the DC is 15+the target's HD.

    Sending (Su): As printed in the Tome of Magic, page 200, with the following changes: The Truenamer gains this ability at level 8, and it is usable 3+Int times per day. At level 12, the Truenamer no longer needs to know the personal truename of the target. At level 19, this ability is usable at will. As with most Truespeak checks, the DC is 15+the target's HD.

    Speak unto the Masses (Su): As printed in the Tome of Magic, pages 200-201, with the following changes: You gain this ability at 4th level but may only use it 3+(1/2 truenamer level) times per day. At level 17, you can use this ability at will and can affect creatures of different kinds with a single utterance.

    Say My Name and I Am There (Su): As printed in the Tome of Magic, page 200, with the following changes: You gain this ability at level 5, but it can only teleport you up to long range (400 ft. + 40 ft./level) and you can only teleport once per day. At level 10 and 15, you gain an additional use of this ability. At level 16, the range changes to 1 mile per truenamer level. At level 20, you can use this ability at will, and you can be teleported any distance and between planes. Using this ability is a free action for your allies, but you can only use it once per round, regardless of how many uses you have available.

    - - - - -

    Utterances

    Defensive Edge - [Note] Remember that untyped bonuses and penalties to AC also apply to CMD.

    Hidden Truth - [Note] Bardic Knowledge has changed significantly between 3.5 and PF.

    Knight's Puissance and Knight's Puissance, Greater - [Note] Remember that untyped bonuses and penalties to attack rolls also apply to CMB.

    Preternatural Clarity - [Note] Remember that untyped bonuses and penalties to attack rolls also apply to CMB.

    - - - - -

    Feats

    Remove the feat Truename Training (but see Traits below); all feats that have the Truename Training feat as a prerequisite no longer have this requirement.

    Reduce the minimum skill rank of all feats and recitations that require ranks in Truespeak by 3. For example, the Empower Utterance feat would require 6 ranks of Truespeak instead of 9.
    Spoiler
    Show
    This is because of the changes to the skill system in PF.


    - - - - -

    Traits

    Truename Training
    -You have unlocked the secrets of truenaming from a young age. You gain a +1 trait bonus to all Truespeak checks and Truespeak is always a class skill for you.

    - - - - -

    Change log:
    Spoiler
    Show

    10-18-12 - Added the Calm Resistance class feature; changed the DCs to scale from Cha to Int
    10-17-12 - Added Picture
    10-17-12 - Posted!


    To-Do list:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Improve recitation feats
    Add new feats?
    Add new utterances?
    Add alternate favored class bonuses?
    "Emphasis" augmentation system
    Last edited by Novawurmson; 2012-10-17 at 11:45 PM.
    Tier System for Classes | Why Each Class is in its Tier
    PF Optimization Guides Compendium | Extended Signature (Optimization/Conversion/Homebrew)


    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: [PF] Untranslatable: A Pathfinder Truenamer Update/Fix

    Table, please.
    Preferably with the changes bolded

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Untranslatable: A Pathfinder Truenamer Update/Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Table, please.
    Preferably with the changes bolded

    As he mentioned, the Truenamer is copyrighted. In order to not be in violation of that, all he is able to post is what he's changing, not the things that stay the same (i.e., the things that WotC owns) . So any table would contain ONLY the changes, and that would be a little sparse.

    That being said, it wouldn't been too difficult to create one yourself, for your own use, which is, as far as I know, totally legit under copyright laws.
    Last edited by TheOneWhoWalks; 2012-10-17 at 08:25 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Untranslatable: A Pathfinder Truenamer Update/Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Novawurmson View Post
    Truespeak checks are skill checks with a DC equal to 15+the target's HD for creatures, or 15+caster level for a magic item. For truespeak checks that affect an area, the DC is 10+(utterance levelx5).
    Ehhh... CR is a metagame construct, but shouldn't be ignored, because it's (theoretically) a measure of a monster's total combat strength. HD... I mean, it'll work, but you should be aware that most things' HD are significantly higher than their CR. In either case, I'd drop the starting DC to 10+HD/CR.

    The Law of Sequence does not exist; a truenamer can keep any number of the same utterance active at the same time, assuming she is able to continue making her Truespeak DC's.
    Yes.

    Message (Sp): A truenamer can message other creatures (as the spell) with a caster level equal to her character level. The truenamer does not need to make a Truespeak check to use this ability.
    Ok, that's kind of nice.

    Syllable of Pain (Sp): At third level, the truenamer can let off a piercing shriek that harms and disables a foe. With a successful Truespeak check, one opponent within 60 ft. takes 2d6 sonic damage + 1d6 for every three truenamer levels beyond 3rd level (to a maximum of 7d6 at level 18) and is staggered for one round. A successful Fortitude save of 10+(1/2 truenamer level)+Int halves this damage and negates the staggered effect. At level 11, the target is dazed on a failed save instead of staggered.
    What's the DC on the check?

    Speak unto the Masses (Su): As printed in the Tome of Magic, pages 200-201, with the following changes: You gain this ability at 4th level but may only use it 3+(1/2 truenamer level) times per day. At level 17, you can use this ability at will and can affect creatures of different kinds with a single utterance.
    Nice boost. With as many useless utterances as exist, probably not a huge deal, but you might want to have it provide a kick to the Truespeak DC.

    STaRS (and STaRS Lite)
    A non-narrativeist, generic rules-light system, by me. Now officially released!

    Grod's Guide to Greatness
    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Nov 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Untranslatable: A Pathfinder Truenamer Update/Fix

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Ehhh... CR is a metagame construct, but shouldn't be ignored, because it's (theoretically) a measure of a monster's total combat strength. HD... I mean, it'll work, but you should be aware that most things' HD are significantly higher than their CR. In either case, I'd drop the starting DC to 10+HD/CR.
    The reasoning behind my decision was that it was formerly 15+double CR; at low levels, it's mostly a crapshoot whether CR or HD is more difficult for the Truenamer (i.e. Worg - CR 2, 4 HD is a DC 19 either way), but at higher levels, this is almost always a net gain for the Truenamer (i.e. Frost Giant - CR 9, 14 HD; DC 33 before, DC 29 in my version. An NPC with 15 class levels would be DC 45 in the old system [43 in PF, because of changes to the CR system], but is DC 30 in my system).

    What's the DC on the check?
    15+Truenamer level, like most class features.

    Nice boost. With as many useless utterances as exist, probably not a huge deal, but you might want to have it provide a kick to the Truespeak DC.
    It increases the DC as it would have before.

    Also, about to make a small update.

    Edit: Grammar
    Last edited by Novawurmson; 2012-10-17 at 11:37 PM.
    Tier System for Classes | Why Each Class is in its Tier
    PF Optimization Guides Compendium | Extended Signature (Optimization/Conversion/Homebrew)


    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Quellian-dyrae's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    CA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Untranslatable: A Pathfinder Truenamer Update/Fix

    The Law of Resistance seems like something that would be really annoying to keep track of in play. Why not do something like, each time you successfully use Truespeak, you just take a flat penalty (probably -1 or -2) to all Truespeak checks, but that penalty fades quickly (either -1 per round you don't use Truespeak, or resets to 0 with a few minutes of rest, or as a full-round action you reduce it by X, or whatever)? This makes Truespeaking more of a per-encounter than per-day ability, but lets you just deal with one number, rather than having to keep track of a separate penalty for every single utterance you have.
    A role playing game is three things. It is an interactive story, a game of chance, and a process in critical thinking.

    If brevity is the soul of wit, I'm witty like a vampire!

    World of Aranth
    M&M 3e Character Guide

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Cloud's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Australia, Sydney
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Untranslatable: A Pathfinder Truenamer Update/Fix

    I know CR is a often a bad way to measure power...but I still feel it's better then using HD in this case. It feels all sorts of wrong that many dire animals are harder to effect then powerful outsiders with the language of creation, for example, a Dire Tiger has 16 HD, and a Maralith has 16 HD, but one is CR 8, the other CR 17. Also it still means the DC's are too damn high to actually do anything with the class if you're against something with 1.5-2+ HD per CR. My personal favourites for the truespeak DCs is 15+CR+2*level of the utterance. Or 10+CR+2*level of the utterance and the law of resistance is either +4, or add it's +2 fail or pass. If you must use HD, then yeah, go with the suggestions already in this thread, and make the DC 10+HD.

    Also for your skills, I always found it a little ridiculous that they didn't get Listen as a class skill, while for example Bards did. Apparently truenamers know they have to speak every little inflection perfectly, but can't tell they're getting it wrong, no wonder they're so bad, XD (This being pathfinder, perception I suppose.)
    Awesome avatar made by Erthiz.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •