Is it common to be attached to your characters?

[Morithias]

I need help. I'm starting to think I'm going through a "mazes and monsters" type paranoia, and I need to know if anyone else has gone through anything like this.

If you put like a fair bit of work into a character, hours going over book, planning out the whole build and writing a really complex backstory and philosophy outline.

And another PC decides to basically murder her for no reason other than "for the lulz".

Do you have the right to be anger at the PC? Do you have the right to feel sad for all the time and effort put into it?

For a less D&D related example, let's say you just spent the last 18 hours or so working on a piece of art, a painting or something, something you couldn't reproduce easily.

And two guys break in, tie you to a chair, burn the painting laughing and then leave.

Do you have the right to be angry at them in that case?

I'm curious cause during the "War campaign that never happened" another PC talked about betraying the prince and basically killing off my PCs and taking over and I went completely paranoid trying to prepare defences. And recently, I've gotten into an argument which was basically about PvP and party betrayal for no reason other than "we're neutral not good".

Is this common or should I just quit D&D, or look for games that have that as an established rule? Cause seriously this is making me sweat, shake, and such.

[Kelb_Panthera]

It's only natural to feel some investment in something that you've spent a significant amount of time on. The more time spent, the more attachment you'll feel.

However, it pays to know who you're gaming with. If PvP is a regular thing in your group, or in the group you're considering joining, it's probably more than a little unwise to sink that much time and effort into a character.

Though, "we're <alignment X>" and/or "we're not <alignment Y>" are not good enough motivation for anything except slaying outsiders of the opposite alignment, and sometimes not even that.

As for whether you're "justified" in how you feel, who gives a damn. Feelings don't have to make sense. In fact they rarely do, until you step back and take a good long look at all of the factors surrounding them; sometimes not even then. You feel how you feel, it's what you do with those feelings that's important.

Communication is everything. Talk to your DM, talk to the other players, and learn to spot trouble before it starts.

As for the specific instance you've described. That's a d-bag move on the part of the other player. If this sort of thing is common from him/her, you may want to either talk with the group about the problem player or, if you're the odd man out, consider leaving the group. Your emotional response is perfectly understandable.

In my experience it's almost never the game's fault if you're having conflicts with other players. It nearly always goes back to poor communication and clashes in personality and/or playstyle.

[Morithias]

Snip

Thanks for the help again friend. I'm just so...ugh...I'm not right in the head. It's not like dangerous insanity, it's just paranoia and fear of loss kinda...

and a ton of it is jumping to conclusions or theoretical, or even just bad thoughts... I think I might need to up my meds...thanks for being there for me again.

[Terraoblivion]

I'd say that attachment is quite normal and getting angry at someone arbitrarily killing your character even more so. Not only did they attack your word and a character you might have grown fond of, but they also threw a wrench in whatever was going on and actively sabotaged everything else in an effort to be the center of attention. Quite frankly, I don't see why anybody would want to play with someone like that.

That said, I also think it is pretty normal to be invested in your character the way you would a character in a book or a long running tv series. They aren't really different, except you made them and portrayed them, adding investment in your work on top of it.

[Hylas]

Nope, you're the first person in the world to have an emotional attachment to a fictional character.



All joking aside, yes, it does suck to have your character killed for no reason. You sound like a guy who really enjoys the roleplaying aspect of the game but got stuck with other players who, frankly, felt like trolling you. I would recommend to keep an eye out for other groups and whenever you have to play in the same game as a the player who killed your old character to bring out new characters who don't have nearly as much investment.

I'll tell you what I do. I have two groups of friends that I play RPGs with. Group A plays Pathfinder every weekend and the DM let's us have minor control over some aspects of the setting, such as if we came from a small farming village he'll place a small farming village on the map. I had one character who was a Tengu gypsy and since Tengus weren't well defined in the setting I pretty much had free reign over how that race interacted with the world and their role in society. I went back and forth with the DM over email over various aspects of character backgrounds, life before the campaign started, family trees, religious beliefs, dreams and goals, and even the kind of food he likes. The DM did this for all 6 players, not to mention the first session was just us brainstorming ideas for what to play as and why we're all adventuring together, and we all have a huge investment in each of our characters. We know how each person will react before they've said anything because we're friends with established character traits.

Group B doesn't have an established schedule, is a lose collection of maybe 9 people, and constantly has rotating DMs, systems, and players. Most campaigns last 1-3 sessions before the DM loses interest and someone else picks up. At first I used to make characters with a page of background material and all sorts of fun things, but they never came up and didn't really matter. Roleplay is light and everyone is pretty much "look out for number 1!" chaotic neutral (though if you asked me what the difference was between the players and the characters, I couldn't tell you). Eventually I started to make characters without any background or anything, but with a single major personality trait and just run as far as I can (Orc paladin that kills evil on sight, knight that charges in at a single hint of battle and talks in a gaudy manner, thief that doesn't understand value and steals useless stuff, etc). Then everyone is amazed at my great "roleplaying".

So yeah, when you're playing with this disruptive murder player, just try out new crazy one-dimensional characters to play. When that player isn't around, go all out and do what you're passionate about, making deep meaningful characters.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Thanks for the help again friend. I'm just so...ugh...I'm not right in the head. It's not like dangerous insanity, it's just paranoia and fear of loss kinda...

and a ton of it is jumping to conclusions or theoretical, or even just bad thoughts... I think I might need to up my meds...thanks for being there for me again.

's all right. I just try to help where I can.

[Morithias]

Snip

Clever.

Hmmm...well there is always "Sensou No Hime" the feral Arctic snow elf who is chaotic neutral and can be summed up as "Blood Knight". She doesn't care whose side she's on so long as there is fighting. Although push come to shove she'll basically always side with the good guys, which is about the only thing keeping her above evil.

[Kelb_Panthera]

When I don't expect a character to last long, I generally roll up something simple mechanically, then attach whatever 1-dimensional personality springs to mind, with somewhere between minimal and no backstory. I develp that personality as the game progresses without really thinking about it at other times.

This way, when the character is inevitbly killed by <insert unfortunate circumstance here>, I've only lost as much investment as I have play-time plus usually less than 1/2 hour of character creation.

Because of the minimal investment, and my twisted sense of humor, I usually find their deaths amusing, especially if it's due to spectacularly bad luck or if the character killing them does so in what I'd consider a comical fashion. I've laughed at the description of my character being turned into hamburger against a nearby wall because the enemy savaged them just that hard.

[Totally Guy]

You guys need to make sure you're all on the same page because it sounds like you'e all on different ones. Same Page Tool Talk about it but use the link to make sure you cover the right topics.

[Ravens_cry]

I get pretty attached to my character, especially if they have lasted several levels. I like getting attached to them. I like giving them a place in the greater world, I like them to take part and build relationships with PC and NPC alike.

[Kitten Champion]

Death is always a possibility in any well-run game. Certainly I feel remorse over the loss, I grow fond of my personae. Nevertheless, it's something I considered when making it, and I'll find solace in my next creation.

The issue I'd have with your situation, the quality of that death. You aren't some throwaway Red Tunic whose death is a predictable means of escalating tension in the narrative. You are the hero of a fantasy epic, perhaps one in a small cast of others, but still a hero. Your death should be dramatic, remarkable, possibly legendary -- not a knife to the back by some whimsical jerkass. It's disheartening personally and diminishes the whole experience -- it's bad roleplaying and bad story-telling.

[nedz]

You should try DMing.

I create very interesting NPCs all of the time, and then the players come along and murderize them.

In very old school games PCs would die like flies.

In story telling games with heavy roleplay PCs tend to stick around a lot longer, even developing plot-armour in some games.

Most games fall in between these two, but it is a sliding scale. It seems like the game you are currently in is at the high lethality end of the scale, though this could just be one player. How does the rest of the group feel about this griefing ?

[DigoDragon]

Some of my players are VERY invested in their characters, to the point that I've had players get flustered and needed to take a timeout when my rust monster ate their +2 Shocking Longsword.

As DM, I sometimes have to take my players a step back and show them the bigger picture that this is a game for fun, and some of the fun is about figuring out situations outside your element (i.e. lost your favorite weapon).
Also, that blue dragon you just killed has a +3 Shocking Longsword so it's all good.

[Jay R]

If you are playing PvP, I don't recommend getting attached to the players, for the same reason I don't recommend getting attached to the chessmen when you play chess. They die too fast.

Yes, I get attached to my characters, just as I get attached to poems I've written or to anything I've built. And yes, it can hurt when something I made is broken.

I sometimes have to remember that I built a character to simulate action in a dangerous environment. If I never lost one, then I'm not really playing in a dangerous environment. Similarly, camping equipment sometimes gets broken, because I take it out into the elements. I could keep my camping equipment safe by not taking it camping, but then what's the point of having it?

"Ships in harbor are safe, but that's not what ships are for."

Having said that, I don't play PvP any more. If all the players are going to compete with each other, I prefer to play a board game. I never get too attached to Colonel Mustard.

[Slipperychicken]

Is this common or should I just quit D&D, or look for games that have that as an established rule? Cause seriously this is making me sweat, shake, and such.

It's common when you have awful players.



In your position, I would probably optimize out the wazoo until the other players can't kill my guy if I don't want them too (I'm typically the best at optimizing 3.5). Or I would find a better group, if I didn't have time to optimize.

[Templarkommando]

My DM tells a story about when he was first starting out. One of his player's characters died and he was sitting there a little upset when another player stood up grabbed up the character sheet, said something to the effect of "Well, he's dead now." and ripped the sheet in two wadded up both remaining pieces and started trying to eat them as everyone else just looks on in horror.

Later he discovered that you could be raised in D&D.

Just because your hp hit -10, doesn't mean that the story that you've spent time writing goes away. From the antagonistic angle, you can always roll up a character that is bent on vengeance against the brigand that killed his brother/uncle/cousin/kinsman etc. (In the middle ages it was not at all uncommon to try to get vengeance against someone who killed your fourth cousin twice removed or some equally ridiculously distant relationship.)

So you roll up a character specifically designed to keep your opponent complacent, but that actually poses a challenge to him. Then you wait for the appropriate moment to betray him.

For example, a rogue is about thirty times better than a wizard that has expended all of his spells, and mysteriously had all of his wands/scrolls stolen. The wizard says: "I'm out of spells." and your character says "Good..." draws his rapier and closes in. Charges and yells "You murdered my kinsman you SoB"

I've also tossed around the idea of waiting for a chance to coup de grace a sleeping rival and just never let the rest of the party know. Later your character leaves, because his only reason for being in the party was killing the PKer (thus depriving your rival of a chance to kill your character in a similar fashion).

Another option is save the character backstory for another campaign. At some point the chance will pop up for you to play in another game and all you have to do is tweak the backstory a little bit and you can fit right into most campaign worlds.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Some of my players are VERY invested in their characters, to the point that I've had players get flustered and needed to take a timeout when my rust monster ate their +2 Shocking Longsword.

As DM, I sometimes have to take my players a step back and show them the bigger picture that this is a game for fun, and some of the fun is about figuring out situations outside your element (i.e. lost your favorite weapon).
Also, that blue dragon you just killed has a +3 Shocking Longsword so it's all good.

This.

Now, mind you. It's not abnormal to be very attached to a character. However, I think there's nothing lost by loosing up on the character a little, if you can. It lets you be more at peace with bad things happening to them, even suggesting them for the sake of a better story.

[valadil]

Getting attached to my characters is why I play RPGs. There's nothing wrong with it.

But there's also nothing wrong with playing a more lethal game. Try to figure out what you're getting into before getting invested in a character. I purposely avoid getting emotionally attached to my Deadlands characters, because they've got a 50/50 shot of dying in any session. (That said, there is something really freeing about playing a character you don't get attached to, which is why I keep coming back to Deadlands.)

[gkathellar]

My handle comes from the name of a grey elf wizard I played in seventh grade. So, common or otherwise, it happens in my experience.

[Slipperychicken]

I was pretty attached to my first two characters or so, writing extensive backstories, complete with family member descriptions and culinary preferences.

And then I realized just how fragile that character is, how easily all that work can be tossed in the trash, wasted. Just because a die rolls high, or the DM deciding he doesn't like me.

...Then I realized that a table of nine grown men and women were rolling dice and pretending to be magical lizard people. And taking it seriously. To the point of crying for their f**king imaginary lizard people when one guy said it's boyfriend's dad was a necromancer or whatever the hell soap-opera plot contrivance was foisted on us next. And then they start whining and crying when my avatar has slightly bigger numbers than theirs.


So I have largely stopped taking the game seriously, loosening up greatly since then, caring little for my characters' name/backstory/motives, and generally having more fun as a result. I mean, I don't play a total murder-hobo, but it gives you a lot of freedom when you aren't constantly tied up in a knot over your avatar's ridiculous personal drama.

[scurv]

Is it normal to get attached, I hope so. I get attached to mine although anymore I just have names for persona's that I port from game to game.

Morithias I am not sure if you are asking the right question though.
It seems to me that you might be a little more sensitive far less jaded then most of the people around you. But I can fully understand what it is like to spend hours on something, just to have someone come up and take a big on it and laugh at your pain. BTW That is basically IRL trolling.

Although as for me, Last time I had a problem with someone like that who was a passive aggressive PC killer, He ended up for a 20 mile walk home due to having perma cheezed off the three people who would taxi him and only two of them played DnD. It is little things like that that tells me that sometimes the char is chaotic evil and they will do things for the evils, And sometimes its just the jerk tossing dice that needs a one dimensional personalty to get his Jerk fix

[NikitaDarkstar]

My handle comes from the name of a grey elf wizard I played in seventh grade. So, common or otherwise, it happens in my experience.

*raises hand* Elf ranger, 6th grade here... So yhea.. if you're in it for the RP and storytelling you're going to get attached. But if you play in a group that prefers just killing stuff and PvP'ing each other, you might need to either adapt your style, or find another group. If it's just the one player that's a problem, talk to the others about it.

[Fallbot]

No, not Black Leaf!

Do you have the right to be anger at the PC? Do you have the right to feel sad for all the time and effort put into it?

Sure you do, that's perfectly normal. People put a lot into their characters and it's hardly odd to be pretty attached to them.

Is this common or should I just quit D&D, or look for games that have that as an established rule? Cause seriously this is making me sweat, shake, and such.

This though....If I'm reading this right you're having anxiety attacks not even over someone killing your character, but over the thought that they might. Characters die. It sucks, it really does, but it's part of the game. It's fine to be pissed if another player screws you over, and it's fine to have a no PvP rule if anyone doesn't enjoy it (it might well be more common than not), which you clearly don't, but your reaction to the thought of it does seem slightly extreme.

My guess would be that this is far less about attachment to a character and more a response to someone using the game as a tool to harass you. So either you are indeed forming a slightly unhealthy attachment to your characters and it might be a good idea to take a bit of a step back from things, or you're playing with a jerk who's bullying you and has gotten you horribly stressed out, in which case you should stop playing with that jerk.

[falloutimperial]

In general, the degree to which you can be angry about a character death is directly proportional to the pointlessness of the death, unless caused by that characters' player.

So if a character I made was killed "for the lulz," then I would be entitled to dourness.

[BootStrapTommy]

I'm curious cause during the "War campaign that never happened" another PC talked about betraying the prince and basically killing off my PCs and taking over and I went completely paranoid trying to prepare defences. And recently, I've gotten into an argument which was basically about PvP and party betrayal for no reason other than "we're neutral not good".

Being neutral is not a license to do whatever one wants.
As the PHB says "a neutral character is more likely to cross the bridge than jump off".

But no, its not natural. You shouldn't be annoyed. You should just build another character, and use them as revenge most foul. If you're pal wants to be a teamkilling fouctard, than just start a PC war. Teamkillers are worse than murder hobos, and they must be forceably culled from any play group.

Than just reuse a roughly similar character later.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Being neutral is not a license to do whatever one wants.
As the PHB says "a neutral character is more likely to cross the bridge than jump off".

But no, its not natural. You shouldn't be annoyed. You should just build another character, and use them as revenge most foul. If you're pal wants to be a teamkilling fouctard, than just start a PC war. Teamkillers are worse than murder hobos, and they must be forceably culled from any play group.

Than just reuse a roughly similar character later.

This is needlessly antagonistic. Talking with the DM or the problem player is almost always a better solution than petty revenge.

As for the notion of PvP being a universally bad thing; that's not true either. As long as you go into the game knowing it's going to be a thing, it can really turn up the drama for the story. It does require a group that can handle such interactions with maturity though. Simply put, PvP's not for everbody, but it's not for nobody either.

[rweird]

It is normal, to various extents depending on the person, the whole PvP thing is another part, you have every right to be mad, but don't blame the system, D&D is what you make it, if you try for a hack and slash dungeon crawl, you can make it so, if you want a cloak and dagger game, that to, PvP, it works. All of them have there flaws, and all of them have there strengths. (though if you want to make a real world physics type game, D&D does a bad job, unless you want to do it for the laughs, in which case it works well due to the absurdity of some D&D physics rules [dragon crushes you for 4d8 damage, brick falls on you for 20d6]). You have every right to feel however you feel, after all, you feel it. Character death can be hard, and feeling that your death was random and for no reason doesn't help.

[Jay R]

How attached you get to a character should depend on the type of game.

When joining a game that was advertised to be deadly, a friend of mine named his character Primus, fully intending the next one to be Secundus and the third one Tertius.

[ThiagoMartell]

For a less D&D related example, let's say you just spent the last 18 hours or so working on a piece of art, a painting or something, something you couldn't reproduce easily.

Morithias, the point I think you should remember is that it can be reproduced easily. Just run the same character again. If the character died so soon, you didn't even have time to show them much about it, so they probably won't even know you're just running it again.
In your place, I'd just talk to the player in question and say "it's not cool to kill my characters that way, I get really attached to them".

[tensai_oni]

I think some people missed the point.

This thread isn't about a deadly campaign where someone lost their character due to its inherent danger, no preparation or just bad rolls.

This is a case where other players decided to be ass-wipes and kill off another player's character for the lulz. It's RP-bullying.

This is when you make it abundantly clear that you are not okay with this sort of treatment. Talk to the DM. If the DM fails to understand why this is a problem, dump the group for idiots they are.