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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Antimagic Bolt
    Abjuration
    Level: Clr 6, Sor/Wiz 4
    Components: V, S, M/DF
    Casting time: 1 standard action
    Range: Short (25 feet + 5 feet/2 levels)
    Duration: 1 round/level
    Target: one creature
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: See text

    You point your finger, and a bolt of energy flies towards the foe you designate, stopping them from using magic. Choose a target, and make a ranged touch attack against them. If you hit, treat the targeted foe and their gear as if under the effects of an antimagic field.

    An antimagic effect suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Time spent within an antimagic effect counts against the suppressed spell’s duration.

    Summoned creatures of any type and incorporeal undead wink out if they enter an antimagic effect. They reappear in the same spot once the field goes away. Time spent winked out counts normally against the duration of the conjuration that is maintaining the creature. If you cast antimagic bolt on a summoned creature that has spell resistance, you must make a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) against the creature’s spell resistance to make it wink out. (The effects of instantaneous conjurations are not affected by an antimagic field because the conjuration itself is no longer in effect, only its result.)

    A normal creature can enter the area, as can normal missiles. Furthermore, while a magic sword does not function magically within the area, it is still a sword (and a masterwork sword at that). The spell has no effect on golems and other constructs that are imbued with magic during their creation process and are thereafter self-supporting (unless they have been summoned, in which case they are treated like any other summoned creatures). Elementals, corporeal undead, and outsiders are likewise unaffected unless summoned. These creatures’ spell-like or supernatural abilities, however, may be temporarily nullified by the effect. Dispel magic does not remove the antimagic effect.

    Two or more antimagic effects sharing any of the same space have no effect on each other. Certain spells, such as wall of force, prismatic sphere, and prismatic wall, remain unaffected by antimagic effects (see the individual spell descriptions). Artifacts and deities are unaffected by mortal magic such as this.

    This spell is not a ray effect.

    Arcane Material Component: A pinch of powdered iron or iron filings.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2012-10-22 at 05:01 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    A cool spell, but... ah... way too good for 3rd level. Or even 5th. No save, and all your magic turns off for a few rounds. In a lot of situations, it's better than an antimagic field.

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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    There is already an Antimagic Ray, as far as I remember. Spell Compendium, probably. Quite a few levels higher.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    This already exists as Antimagic Ray, printed in Spell Compendium as a 7th level spell that also allows a Will save and SR and has a 100gp material component.

    A single target AMF is much better than the 10 foot radius emanation of AMF. For one, it doesn't impede your own magical abilities (which, as a spellcaster, are plentiful). More importantly, your target can't just walk out and back into magic land.
    Last edited by Garryl; 2012-10-22 at 04:51 PM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    In a lot of situations, it's better than an antimagic field.
    Yeah, gonna need you to explain the logic behind that one. And this is not 6th level magic, as you implied. The original AMF is 6th level, and this is strictly less effective overall. I'm willing to raise the level a bit, but not that high; what with the short range, SR yes, short duration, and only targeting one creature a casting, I don't feel it warrants more than 4th level. (Of course, I'm also of the opinion that AMF should be 5th level, but we won't get into that argument here...)

    @ Eldan: I don't recall an antimagic ray spell in SC, do you know what it was called? I'd be interested in seeing it. Also, this isn't a ray spell.

    EDIT: @ Garyll: Really? 7th level to AM a single foe? I'm gonna need to look that up when I have access to my books in a few hours. Unless the duration and range are ridiculous, it would be strictly inferior to AMF outside of sticking to them so they can't walk out of it.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2012-10-22 at 05:00 PM.

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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Yeah, gonna need you to explain the logic behind that one. And this is not 6th level magic, as you implied. The original AMF is 6th level, and this is strictly less effective overall. I'm willing to raise the level a bit, but not that high; what with the short range, SR yes, short duration, and only targeting one creature a casting, I don't feel it warrants more than 4th level. (Of course, I'm also of the opinion that AMF should be 5th level, but we won't get into that argument here...)

    @ Eldan: I don't recall an antimagic ray spell in SC, do you know what it was called? I'd be interested in seeing it. Also, this isn't a ray spell.

    EDIT: @ Garyll: Really? 7th level to AM a single foe? I'm gonna need to look that up when I have access to my books in a few hours. Unless the duration and range are ridiculous, it would be strictly inferior to AMF outside of sticking to them so they can't walk out of it.
    Step 1: Find a spellcaster.
    Step 2: AMF Ray them.
    Step 3: Laugh as they can't cast anymore, since they don't get a save or anything to resist.

    The biggest problem of AMF is "how do I suppress enemy spell effects without making myself unable to contribute, and letting the other guys use their magic boosts against my foe?" By stopping only your target, you have the answer.

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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Yeah, gonna need you to explain the logic behind that one.
    Assume the enemy is a standard Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, Other party. If you cast anti-magic field on them wizard or cleric there, they simply step back, get further away from you, and keep casting. If they have a ranged ranger, or a monk with spring attack, they've basically got a shelter they can safely fight in. Yes, the normal anti-magic field is powerful, but it has several easy counters.

    This does not. If you cast it on that party's wizard, the wizard is a glorified commoner. For 1 rnd/level, there's nothing he can do about it except try to stay out of the action and hope he doesn't get broken into pieces.
    If it's not obvious, insert a after my post.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Yeah, gonna need you to explain the logic behind that one. And this is not 6th level magic, as you implied. The original AMF is 6th level, and this is strictly less effective overall. I'm willing to raise the level a bit, but not that high; what with the short range, SR yes, short duration, and only targeting one creature a casting, I don't feel it warrants more than 4th level. (Of course, I'm also of the opinion that AMF should be 5th level, but we won't get into that argument here...)

    @ Eldan: I don't recall an antimagic ray spell in SC, do you know what it was called? I'd be interested in seeing it. Also, this isn't a ray spell.

    EDIT: @ Garyll: Really? 7th level to AM a single foe? I'm gonna need to look that up when I have access to my books in a few hours. Unless the duration and range are ridiculous, it would be strictly inferior to AMF outside of sticking to them so they can't walk out of it.
    Garryl. Two 'r's, one 'l'.

    Nope, duration and range are exactly the same as your version (1 round/level, Close). Most of the two spells are actually the same, word for word.

    Being a ray is actually worse than just a ranged touch attack (barring a few niche cases for damaging effects, which this isn't). There are a few defensive effects that apply specifically against rays that don't do anything against ranged touch attacks. On top of that, Split Ray pales in comparison to Chain Spell when dealing with buffs and debuffs.

    AMF, with its 10 foot radius, really is ineffective under normal circumstances. With a 10 foot radius, you need to get into melee with your opponent. Not only are you within range of a smackdown, but you have to spend actions getting (and staying) close to your opponents. Depending on which corner of your space it's emanating from, moving out of the AMF could be as little as a 5 foot step. As a self-centered emanation, it always shuts down your abilities, but your enemies can choose whether they prefer to step away (a move action at most, a free action in several cases) or they want to tussle with your magic-less self, whichever is better for them, not for you. As a full spellcaster (Cleric or Wizard), you are assured to have the majority of your power coming from spells.

    AMR, with close range, lets you slap it onto an opponent at a distance, without having to spend actions to close, and without locking yourself into melee. As a sticky single target effect, your opponent does not have the option to trade move actions for magic, instead of picking whichever is better for him. Meanwhile, you get to keep all of your abilities and can move about freely while maintaining the effect.

    If AMF is supposed to be a debuff, how can a version that only affects your enemies be weaker than one that only sometimes affects your enemies but always affects yourself?
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  9. - Top - End - #9
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
    AMR, with close range, lets you slap it onto an opponent at a distance, without having to spend actions to close, and without locking yourself into melee. As a sticky single target effect, your opponent does not have the option to trade move actions for magic, instead of picking whichever is better for him. Meanwhile, you get to keep all of your abilities and can move about freely while maintaining the effect.
    Meaning that you've used a spell of "Fightan-Man, FINISH HIM."

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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Plus, with an Antimagic field, there's always the danger that you get into it yourself.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Plus, with an Antimagic field, there's always the danger that you get into it yourself.
    It's a 10 foot radius emanation centered on you. You have no choice but to be in it. If you're Huge or larger, you can be partially out of it, but that doesn't leave any room for anyone but you to be in it.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Oh wow, I never noticed that AMF was always centered on you. That makes it 100% absolutely totally worthless. In fact, I can't think of a single truly good way to implement it if it's always centered on you. All this time I thought it was an area spell you could throw about. That...huh. I would honestly need to think about it a while to see if I could make it useful as written. The only thing that immediately comes to mind is scrolls on another party member with ranks in UMD.

    OK, change of plans: reworking this thread into a retooling of antimagic. I'll update the OP later, once I come up with a baseline to work off of (somewhere along the lines of the original AMF as I thought it worked originally, probably).
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2012-10-22 at 08:58 PM.

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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Garryl View Post
    It's a 10 foot radius emanation centered on you. You have no choice but to be in it. If you're Huge or larger, you can be partially out of it, but that doesn't leave any room for anyone but you to be in it.
    Huh. Wow. So it is. Same as Garryl up there.
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    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Oh wow, I never noticed that AMF was always centered on you. That makes it 100% absolutely totally worthless. In fact, I can't think of a single truly good way to implement it if it's always centered on you.
    Easy: A party that includes casters and noncasters against a boss who's primarily a caster. AMF shuts down 40% of the party's capabilities (assuming one caster, one who loses 60% of his effectiveness with no spells, and two noncasters), but 80% of the boss's capabilities (if it's something like a lich.)

    If there's a reason AMF is underpowered, it's that a 10' radius area is too easy to get out of; the fact that it shuts down the caster is just what keeps it from being totally overpowered.

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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Oh wow, I never noticed that AMF was always centered on you. That makes it 100% absolutely totally worthless. In fact, I can't think of a single truly good way to implement it if it's always centered on you. All this time I thought it was an area spell you could throw about. That...huh. I would honestly need to think about it a while to see if I could make it useful as written. The only thing that immediately comes to mind is scrolls on another party member with ranks in UMD.
    I can think of several different uses for AMF off the top of my head.

    1. Neutralize a more powerful opponent's gift, leaving you with the superior Physique. Particularly useful for a multiclasser.

    2. Protect an archer or other ranged troop from magical counterfire.

    3. Bypass most magic traps.

    4. Throw it up as a defensive measure if you've run out of other spells.

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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    AMF is one of the few things that you actually want to use the Ready action with. Move up to the BBEG with your move action, then Ready an action to take a Move action to move along with them. As long as they don't move farther than you, they are still considered to be in your AMF. Negates 5 ft steps from moving them away from you and anything else up to your Move rate. Depending on how your DM rules it and what they attempt to do, you might even get an AoO on them. You are capable of hitting things right? Otherwise you have no right to be casting AMF.
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    And this is why Arcane Archer is actually a good dip class. You can throw antimagic fields at people, and then quicken and shape spell a Wall of X to keep them in.
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    Default Re: "No magic from you!" (3.5 Spell, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by ReaderAt2046 View Post
    1. Neutralize a more powerful opponent's gift, leaving you with the superior Physique. Particularly useful for a multiclasser.
    To wit:
    "...what would happen if we turned the magic off? Anti-Magic Field.
    Fascinating. It appears that you cease to be a mighty wizard and become a fragile pointy-eared monkey. While I? I am still a dragon."

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