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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I had a player who is interested in playing a Bard who has an affinity for lightning and weather. He wondered whether there were a spell like Produce Flame, but using electricity. I'm feeling like indulging. Much of this is cobbled from Produce Flame directly, but I tweaked it a small bit to deal with the change of energy type. What do you think?

    Produce Spark
    Evocation [Electricity]
    Level: Brd 1, Drd 1,
    Components: V, S
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Effect: Sparks in your palm
    Duration: 1 min./level (D)
    Saving Throw: None
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Sparks as bright as a torch appear in your open hand. The sparks harm neither you nor your equipment.

    In addition to providing illumination, the sparks can be hurled or used to touch enemies. You can strike an opponent with a melee touch attack, dealing electricity damage equal to 1d6 +1 point per caster level (maximum +5). Alternatively, you can hurl the sparks up to 60 feet as a thrown weapon. When doing so, you attack with a ranged touch attack (with no range penalty) and deal the same damage as with the melee attack. No sooner do you hurl the sparks than a new set appears in your hand. Each attack you make reduces the remaining duration by 1 minute. If an attack reduces the remaining duration to 0 minutes or less, the spell ends after the attack resolves.

    If your palm is within a liquid (e.g. water), your attack deals damage to all creatures (excluding you) within 10 ft. that are in contact with the liquid.
    Last edited by fencepainter; 2012-10-27 at 06:21 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    It doesn't really belong on the bard spell list; bards mostly do buffs, debuffs, morale stuff, trickery, and the occasional piece of sonic damage. Electricity resistance is a little less common than fire resistance but at such low levels it's harder to say. 1d5 is a bit odd.

    That said, I wouldn't call it unbalanced and if the player really wants it you shouldn't fear for your game.

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    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    It doesn't really belong on the bard spell list; bards mostly do buffs, debuffs, morale stuff, trickery, and the occasional piece of sonic damage. Electricity resistance is a little less common than fire resistance but at such low levels it's harder to say. 1d5 is a bit odd.

    That said, I wouldn't call it unbalanced and if the player really wants it you shouldn't fear for your game.
    You've spotted a typo--I'll change the 5 to a 6.

    I think he wants to be a Stormsinger (Frostburn).

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I like this, but don't think it belongs on the bard spell list.
    Last edited by ShriekingDrake; 2012-11-06 at 10:53 PM.

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    Wyntonian's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I think it kinda fits for a savage bard, but not a regular one.
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    OracleofWuffing's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I get how it doesn't fit in the bard list mechanically, but my head just sees this exchange going on and chuckles:

    *Bard scruffs his feet along the carpet*
    "Hey, what are you doing?"
    "Building up static electricity."
    *Zap!*

    Plus there's a good chunk of puns to make based on the energy type.
    "Okay, so I'm going to quick draw and dual wield these one-pound caltrops as improvised weapons..."
    ---
    "Oh, hey, look! Blue Eyes Black Lotus!" "Wait what, do you sacrifice a mana to the... Does it like, summon a... What would that card even do!?" "Oh, it's got a four-energy attack. Completely unviable in actual play, so don't worry about it."

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by OracleofWuffing View Post
    I get how it doesn't fit in the bard list mechanically, but my head just sees this exchange going on and chuckles:

    *Bard scruffs his feet along the carpet*
    "Hey, what are you doing?"
    "Building up static electricity."
    *Zap!*

    Plus there's a good chunk of puns to make based on the energy type.
    My, wasn't that... shocking.
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    Lord Vukodlak's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Shock resistance my be less common but as it stands I'd almost always prepare this ahead of produce flame. I'd make it 1d4 instead of 1d6.

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    Silva Stormrage's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vukodlak View Post
    Shock resistance my be less common but as it stands I'd almost always prepare this ahead of produce flame. I'd make it 1d4 instead of 1d6.
    To be fair at low levels fire resistance ISN'T that much more common that lightning resistance. And is produce fire that much stronger than a standard longbow anyway? I don't think it needs to be reduced to 1d4+1.

    I think the ability works pretty well though, though I would have to agree that most Bard spells aren't particularly electric based. Though I wouldn't say that adding one lightning spell would make that much of a difference.
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    bobthe6th's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Or just pass the character a 1/day item of produce sparks... or hell a mini rune staff of produce sparks. Not a ton, but lets them get to play with it without adding random stuff to the bard list. Heck, make the item a magical guitar, oddly flat. Then require a perform check to activate, bonus points for the player doing an air guitar solo.

    as to the spell, seems fine. the little added bit shouldn't overpower it... is rather specific.
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    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I'd add a reflex save to the water-conducting bit, but other than that yeah, it seems fine. I wouldn't worry about what people are saying about the spell fitting on the bard list-- I agree that it doesn't belong on a general bard list, but (within the limits of balance) it's much better to tweak a class slightly than make a player jump through hoops to play the character he wants.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    I'd add a reflex save to the water-conducting bit, but other than that yeah, it seems fine. I wouldn't worry about what people are saying about the spell fitting on the bard list-- I agree that it doesn't belong on a general bard list, but (within the limits of balance) it's much better to tweak a class slightly than make a player jump through hoops to play the character he wants.
    I don't know if the save is necessary. The damage doesn't scale that well and the number of times you find yourself in a liquid where this spell will be decisive are likely to be few. Moreover, I'm not sure I'd do a reflex save. I think either fort or will make more sense. There is nothing to dodge if you're in the water. But maybe you're so tough that the shock doesn't affect you, or you are so mentally tough that you ignore the shock, but I don't think you can dodge it.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Agreed on that, should be a fortitude save for anything in the water. This is a nice adaptation of produce flame, and I wouldn't worry about one or two thematically appropriate spells being added to the bard for a specific character concept, but I would be wary about making it specify as a bard spell in the description. Whereas it's fine to allow a player access to a small handful of spells around the theme they wish to play, it's a different matter to create something outside the norm as a general option for anyone of the class.

    EDIT:
    For those saying this is better than produce flame because of the liquid proviso, I'd say not really. You get a highly situational utility from the spell, true, but you also only get 60ft ranged attack instead of produce flame's 120ft. I'd say that balanced it out nicely anyhow.
    Last edited by Veklim; 2012-11-09 at 07:06 AM.
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    Grod_The_Giant's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by ShriekingDrake View Post
    I don't know if the save is necessary. The damage doesn't scale that well and the number of times you find yourself in a liquid where this spell will be decisive are likely to be few. Moreover, I'm not sure I'd do a reflex save. I think either fort or will make more sense. There is nothing to dodge if you're in the water. But maybe you're so tough that the shock doesn't affect you, or you are so mentally tough that you ignore the shock, but I don't think you can dodge it.
    I was thinking "jump out of the water," but eh.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Veklim View Post
    For those saying this is better than produce flame because of the liquid proviso, I'd say not really. You get a highly situational utility from the spell, true, but you also only get 60ft ranged attack instead of produce flame's 120ft. I'd say that balanced it out nicely anyhow.
    I agree with this assessment. Keep the range at 60ft and you're good to keep the area effect.
    Last edited by ShriekingDrake; 2012-11-24 at 12:44 PM.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    I'll just leave what I found here.

    But in all seriousness, I don't think the spell is unbalanced at all.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    ShriekingDrake's Avatar

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    @ fencepainter . . . I know you probably haven't looked at this thread in a while, but I wanted you to know that we tried out this spell over the weekend with great success. Both the DM and a player used it. It was great fun, especially that shocking the liquid ability. It turns out it's not a bad way to fish in shallow water.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    WhiteWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Produce Spark (P.E.A.C.H.)

    Thanks. I'm so glad to hear it. It has become a staple in my group as well.

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