[3.5] Paladin fix. Because Everyone does one.

[Marxism]

Paladin

Basically I'm here to turn this tier 5 class into a tier 3 or 4 class. How you say? By making it SAD. It is now a Charisma fighter. It is now the face of the party. It is now a passable fighter who can take a hit and give hits. That is what I am here to do so let us all see how well I can pull it off.

HD: d10
Skill points 4+int per level
Class skills Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Knowlege(nobility, local, and religion), Listen, Sense Motive, Spot
Starting money as paladin
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+2

| Smite, (Detect Alignment),turn/rebuke undead

2nd|

+2

|

+3

|

+1

|

+3

|

3rd|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+3

|Holy shield

4th|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

| Saving Grace

5th|

+5

|

+4

|

+1

|

+4

|Pure Blood

6th|

+6/1

|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

|Take it like a man.

7th|

+7/2

|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

|Magic circle against (Alignment)

8th|

+8/3

|

+6

|

+2

|

+6

|Die hard (feat)

9th|

+9/4

|

+6

|

+3

|

+6

|Impervious Assault

10th|

+10/5

|

+7

|

+3

|

+7

|

11th|

+11/6/1

|

+7

|

+3

|

+7

| Unbreakable Will

12th|

+12/7/2

|

+8

|

+4

|

+8

|

13th|

+13/8/3

|

+8

|

+4

|

+8

|

14th|

+14/9/4

|

+9

|

+4

|

+9

|Unkillable

15th|

+15/10/5

|

+9

|

+5

|

+9

|Constant awareness

16th|

+16/11/6/1

|

+10

|

+5

|

+10

| Piercing Eyes

17th|

+17/12/7/2

|

+10

|

+5

|

+10

|

18th|

+18/13/8/3

|

+11

|

+6

|

+11

|Wings

19th|

+19/14/9/4

|

+11

|

+6

|

+11

|

20th|

+20/15/10/5

|

+12

|

+6

|

+12

|[/table]

New stuff
Smite
The paladin adds his charisma bonus to attack and damage rolls
Holy Shield
The paladin adds his charisma bonus to AC
Saving Grace
Charisma to Saving throws
Pure Blood
The paladin becomes Immune to all poisons and diseases
Take it like a man
When making a reflex save against damage the Paladin may instead make a fort save to half the damage.
Magic Circle against (Alignment)
The Paladin may now cast a magic circle against a given alignment at will.
Impervious Assault
When Charging the Paladin is immune to attacks of opportunity
Unbreakable Will
When a Paladin fails a will save he may make another using the better of the two results
Unkillable
The Paladin is now immune to negative energy and negative energy effects. This includes death effects. Undead paladins are now similarly immune to positive energy
Constant awareness
The Paladin is now immune to attacks of opportunity.
Piercing Eyes
True seeing. you get it.
Wings
90 feet (perfect)

I can't think of a capstone but this is what I've got. Please advise

[bobthe6th]

general formating things, you need to add skills and HD, I would also sugest you bring it in line with the normal format...

Just gonna guess you want a PEACH here. I have to say I like the flat numbers aproch, I do like a good passive focus class. I do worry the lack of combat options will be a problem...

Paladin

nice picture!

Basically I'm here to turn this tier 5 class into a tier 3 or 4 class. How you say? By making it SAD. It is now a Charisma fighter. It is now the face of the party. It is now a passable fighter who can take a hit and give hits. That is what I am here to do so let us all see how well I can pull it off.

I would worry that the SAD will make it a four level dip for a sorcerer... if they can make up the caster levels.

before I make points about the rest, I point out the abilaties lack the Ex, Su, or Sp tags...

Smite
The paladin adds his charisma bonus to attack and damage rolls

nice, but again I fear this makes the paladin a one level dip to gain bonus damage.

Knowledge of the Gods
The Paladin adds may make a free action charisma check if this succeeds he is treated as having gotten the maximum possible result on a knowledge check.

I think you have some bad copypasta there, also what is the DC? seems a bit weird/overpowered.

Holy Shield
The paladin adds his charisma bonus to AC

cool, see above.

Saving Grace
Charisma to Saving throws

see above.

Pure Blood
The paladin becomes Immune to all poisons and diseases

nice, I don't think it is to much....

Take it like a man
When making a reflex save against damage the Paladin may instead make a fort save to half the damage.

Huh, cool. Does strengthen a weak part of the archetype, the paladin standing strong through a dragons fiery breath. Might be cool to add mettle latter.

Magic Circle against (Alignment)
The Paladin may now cast a magic circle against a given alignment at will.

Seems cool... might be better just to give an aura they can flip on and off...

Impervious Assault
When Charging the Paladin is immune to attacks of opportunity

Seems nice

Unbreakable Will
When a Paladin fails a will save he may make another using the better of the two results

cool, though I think mettle and not failing a save on a one would be better.

Unkillable
The Paladin is now immune to negative energy and negative energy effects. This includes death effects

what about an undead paladin?

Constant awareness
The Paladin is now immune to attacks of opportunity

see, I don't understand why a generally defense based class gets mobilaty abilaties. I would think a thicket of blades like abilaty would fit better.

Piercing Eyes
True seeing. you get it.

k... seems a bit big.

Wings
90 feet (perfect)

that is a lot... why not equal to land speed, or double land speed?

[Yitzi]

For a capstone, how about let him use CHA instead of CON to determine hit points, essentially keeping going through pure determination.

Also, perhaps he should get a supernatural ability (suppressible with Dispel Good) that prevents him from taking any CHA damage or drain and blocks anything that would change his alignment; essentially he's relying on his connection with Good to keep his personality intact against all attacks.

What's the DC for Knowledge of the Gods?

What does Holy Hits do?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Pretty much what the others have said. I love Take It Like a Man. True Seeing and Wings come too late to be really useful, though-- you're giving a 5th level spell at 16th level, and a slightly-upgraded 3rd level spell at 18th. You've long since had to acquire equivalent abilities through magic items to stay competitive. (Heck, I've had 10th level games where not being able to fly was an issue)

[toapat]

I agree with the consensus that "Take it like a Man" is nice.

on the other hand, this falls to the common "Leap, dont Look" that alot of paladin brews will fall into (and that I myself wont deny doing twice). you pull out spells without alot of research, and try to go with a combination of a Fluff and ChaSAD idea. Defensive classes exist in 3.5, and you wont be getting anything too good without a couple of one knight stands with the Challenge and both the Stone Dragon and Divine Spirit disciplines.

the Real fluff of Paladin is best described as what happens when you mix the real life group that would become known as Jesus and his Appostles, with the concept of the Knight-Errant. You arent just a Hero, you arent just a Miracle worker, you are a one PC hope brigade. You are there when the kid needs a nightlight, a caring parent, and when the Orcs come to pillage the town. You are there with a caring heart and a stalwart will against evil and despair. The interpretation i seem to be getting from your brew is that you seem to have gotten the "Defender of the people", but not the "Light in the Darkness" part of the fluff.

[Marxism]

I made a quick and dirty skill edit. I totally forgot to put that in there.
I appreciate all of the input and would like to explain myself better.
Wings and true seeing are honestly a pair of flavor things. Their practical purpose is to save you a bit of money. Sure you can buy flight and true seeing but those coins would be better spent on other things.

With regards to the dipping concerns: Good. I really want to see a bard who can outfight a fighter. But in all seriousness I don't see what is wrong with it. I mean it does sort of cheapen the class by making it a dip. I wanted to include some stuff to make it a beacon of hope but the only real way I saw to do that was add some bard abilities and that just seemed a bit bad. Because then paladin would be bard with full bab

[toapat]

I wanted to include some stuff to make it a beacon of hope but the only real way I saw to do that was add some bard abilities and that just seemed a bit bad. Because then paladin would be bard with full bab

that skill list is rather short, and missing the mobility set (swim, jump, climb) and search.

it kinda seems more like you wanted to make a Skyrim's Dovahkiin class if that is what you thought. At the very least the shouts would be interesting to see another take on.

But my say is, Light in the Darkness, is not actually bard. Light in the Darkness is actually pretty much how base paladin is, if you look at them from a conceptual standpoint. sure, it yields a mess of a class, but at the very least, they have the ability to aid in most situations when you would want someone to be there with a shoulder to lean on.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Wings and true seeing are honestly a pair of flavor things. Their practical purpose is to save you a bit of money. Sure you can buy flight and true seeing but those coins would be better spent on other things.

The problem isn't necessarily that you can buy them. The problem is that you've bought them 5-10 levels ago.