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Thread: shadow peach

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    Pixie in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default shadow peach

    This is for pathfinder

    Okay haven't done this for a while so would like some help on this guy. I know he's powerful but I believe getting rid of magical items should compensate for this. Yes I know its a very narrow class focusing on grappling but its what i like. help is appreciated (I know theres gotta be a ton a mistakes lol)




    Shadow

    Abilities: Shadows benefit primarily from Strength for damage, Dexterity and Charisma for armor, and Constitution for their saves

    Role: Shadows are strikers they excel at taking out individual targets. This is not to say they cannot do anything else in fact depending on what they siphon they can take on many if not all roles (just not all at the same time)

    Background: Many believe that ninjas and assassins are the masters of the shadow these people couldn't be any more wrong. Ninjas and their like who skulk in the shadows never truly embrace what it mean to use the shadows to your complete advantage in fact many don't even know that the shadow is a sentient being willing to grant those who truly worship it some of its powers.

    Organization: Shadows tend not to like each other and highly covet the powers granted to them by the shadow.

    Alignment: Contrary to what some people might label them to be shadows do not adhere to any particular alignment.

    Races: The sentient shadow being that imparts these powers does not care who or what you are as long as you embrace the shadow fully.

    Religion: The sentient shadow requires your full devotion

    Other Classes: Shadows are often seen as thieves and assassins which leads many to believe them to be untrustworthy.

    Adaptation: Shadows have a hard time adapting to society staying in the shadow constantly and talking to some unseen force tends to drive people away.

    Hit Die: d8


    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special

    1st|+0|+0|+2|+0|bonus feat, shadow grab, hungry shadow (medium), shadow play, true stealth, claws, feature, shadowy defense
    2nd|+1|+0|+3|+0|evasion, siphon (1 ability, capacity 1)
    3rd|+2|+1|+3|+1|bonus feat, uncanny dodge
    4th|+3|+1|+4|+1|spider climb, siphon (1 ability, capacity 2)
    5th|+3|+1|+4|+1|shadow pounce
    6th|+4|+2|+5|+2|bonus feat, improved uncanny dodge, siphon (1 ability, capacity 3) hungry shadow (Large)
    7th|+5|+2|+5|+2|grip of the shadow
    8th|+6/+1|+2|+6|+2|shadow image, siphon (1 ability, capacity 4)
    9th|+6/+1|+3|+6|+3|bonus feat, shadow attunement (doesn't eat)
    10th|+7/+2|+3|+7|+3|improved evasion, swallow whole, siphon (2 abilities, capacity 4)
    11th|+8/+3|+3|+7|+3|shadow attunement (swarm), hungry shadow (huge)
    12th|+9/+4|+4|+8|+4|bonus feat, greater shadow image, siphon (2 abilities, capacity 5) shadow attunement (doesn't sleep)
    13th|+9/+4|+4|+8|+4|greater shadow play
    14th|+10/+5|+4|+9|+4|fast swallow, siphon (2 abilities, capacity 6)
    15th|+11/+6/+1|+5|+9|+5|bonus feat, shadow attunement (doesn't breathe)
    16th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+5|siphon (3 abilities, capacity 6)
    17th|+12/+7/+2|+5|+10|+5|hungry shadow (Gargantuan)
    18th|+13/+8/+3|+6|+11|+6|bonus feat, siphon (3 abilities, capacity 7)
    19th|+14/+9/+4|+6|+11|+6| shadow attunement (age)
    20th|+15/+10/+5|+6|+12|+6|fuse

    [/table]

    Class Skills (6 + Int Modifier): Acrobatics (Dex), Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Dex), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Linguistics (Int), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Stealth (Dex), Swim (Str), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

    Proficiencies: Shadow gains no proficiencies with armor or weapons. if they don any kind of armor they lose access to all class features and must atone for this.

    Sacrifice: the shadow must give up his worldly possessions. can not use any magic items refuses magical aid from allies and cannot use any armor or weapons (other then his claws). doing so willingly (compulsions and other effects not counting) he forfeits all his class abilities until he atones. To atone a Shadow must lock himself away 7 days and 7 nights in a completely dark room with no exits brining nothing with him. After the 7th night the Shadow will reluctantly embrace you its arms once again only fully embracing you (no drawbacks to not being fully embraced) once you have completed a specific task from the Shadow itself (DM discretion)

    Shadowy Defense: While in shadows the Shadow gains a bonus to their ac equal to their Charisma modifier as a deflection bonus. At 3rd and every three levels after treat your Charisma score as 2 higher for this purpose. This is a sacred/ profane bonus depending on your alignment.

    Bonus Feats: Can take from any of the following:
    Grapple, Improved, Greater Grapple (6th level), Improved Trip, Greater Trip (6th level, Improved Bulrush, Greater Bulrush (6th level), Improved Dirty Trick, Greater Dirty Trick (6th level), Improved Disarm, Greater Disarm (6th)
    special Can also substitute a bonus feat for a rogue talent if below 10, if above 10 can also select advanced talents (other then the ones you wouldn't qualify for such as ones requiring sneak attack)

    Shadow Grab: Gain Improved Grab. (grab special ability, attack with a claw allows for and immediate grapple check) After making a grab can move 10 ft after as well as make a hide check. Shadow grab is a special grapple you use your class level in shadow class levels in place of your bab for cmb and cmd and size bonus is determined by your hungry shadow ability not actual size.
    Special: The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply to use the part of its body it used in the grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on its CMB check to make and maintain the grapple, but does not gain the grappled condition itself. This penalty is reduced by an amount equal to his level.

    Hungry Shadow: As you advance in level your shadow increases in size gaining you bonus due to its respective size. At 1st you are equal to a medium size character for damage, reach and bonuses granted for being medium. At 6th this increases to large increase claw damage 1 step reach by 5ft and any size bonuses for being large. At 11th level this increases to huge, increase damage and additional step reach by an additional 5ft and bonuses equal to a creature of this size. At 17 this increases to gargantuan, increase damage an additional step reach by and additional 5ft and bonuses equal to a creature of you size.

    Shadow Play: The shadow lowers the light level by 1 category in an area equal to his hungry shadow size, this increases to 2 if he spends a full round action on it . this increases to 2 and 3 respectively at 13th level. At 3rd level this is treated as the spell darkness for purposes of dispelling, at 8th this is considered deeper darkness

    True Stealth: Can take 10 on stealth checks. In addition stealth checks grant 1 round abilities based on how successful they are. become invisible, ethereal, bypass dark vision tremor sense blind sight/sense and scent. this doe not actually grant you the ability to go invisible or ethereal just the ability to not be seen by various effects.

    Claws: Gains 2 primary claw attacks dealing damage equal to his hungry shadow size (medium doing 1d4 an so on) when determining what his claws bypasses for DR, 1/2 his level is his effective enhancement bonus. there is a table that I cant find right now that shows this a +1 weapon bypasses magic, +2 bypasses something else and it goes up to a +5. this does not actually grant a plus to his attacks or damage just what he can bypass for damage reduction

    Evasion: As per the rogue ability. At 10th this becomes improved improved evasion

    Siphon: This allows you to siphon a portion of power from your enemy when grappling. when maintaining a grapple you can as part of maintaining a grapple, siphon a portion of your enemies power gaining the effect immediately while the enemy loses this amount as well. you can siphon any stat up to 1/2 your shadow level the enemy takes this as damage immediately. You can siphon any skill cannot exceed you normal hd limit. You can siphon and ex, su or spell like ability from the target, if this requires a special appendage you gain it. When an ability is taken from the target they lose access to it for the duration of your siphon.
    Special Table shows how many times you may siphon from your target at a time (IE: siphon 1) and how many siphons you may currently have active (IE:capacity 1). There is no save for this.
    siphon's last for 1 round/lvl


    Feature: Each shadow learns to enhance his abilities in different ways. All abilities are in the universal monster rules and deal damage according to the rules. Every level they can choose one of the following abilities each can be taken up to twice.

    Shadow blending: Attacks against a shadow in dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This ability does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance.
    When taken a second time can increase this to 75%

    DR/- equal to level in shadows
    When taken a second time this dr applies outside of shadows

    Fast healing Equal to 1/2 his level
    When taken a second time he may, as a full round action that does not provoke, heal himself an amount equal to Constitution modifier + 1/2 his level. Once used cannot be used again for 5 rounds.

    Spell Resist Equal to 11+level
    This can be taken a second time at 10th level and beyond, gaining the spell turning ability.
    Special : Always treated as having 10 levels of this at all times.

    Rake A creature with this special attack gains extra natural attacks when it grapples its foe. In addition to the options available to all grapplers, a monster with the rake ability gains two free claw attacks (equal to his normal claw attacks) that it can use only against a grappled foe.
    When taken a second time increase damage 1 step

    Rend If it hits with two or more natural attacks in 1 round it deals claw damage pus 1 1/2 strength, but no more than once per round.
    When taken a second time increase damage 1 step

    Engulf special unlike the other abilities do not use universal monster rules for this this acts similar to constrict it does claw damage plus str 1/2 on successful grapple
    When taken a second time increase damage 1 step

    Constrict A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, when it makes a successful grapple check (in addition to any other effects caused by a successful check, including additional damage). this damage ia equal to claw damage plus 1 1/2 strength
    When taken a second time increase damage 1 step

    Bleed A creature with this ability causes wounds that continue to bleed, dealing 2d6 damage each round at the start of the affected creature’s turn. This bleeding can be stopped by a successful DC 15 Heal skill check or through the application of any magical healing.
    When taken a second time increase damage 1 step

    Pull A creature with this ability can choose to make a free combat maneuver check with a successful attack. If successful, this check pulls an opponent closer. This ability only works on creatures of a size equal to or smaller than the shadow. Creatures pulled in this way do not provoke attacks of opportunity and stop if the pull would move them into a solid object or creature.
    when taken a second time the shadow may also use Entrap The creature has an ability that restricts another creature’s movement. The target of an entrap attack must make a Fortitude save or become entangled for the listed duration. If a target is already entangled by this ability. The target can use spells with only verbal components or spell-like abilities if it can make a DC 20 concentration check. An entangled creature can make a Strength check (at the same DC as the entrap saving throw DC) as a full-round action to break free. Destroying the entrapping material frees the creature. special target of the entrap will never become helpless due to this ability only entangled.

    See in Darkness 60ft
    When taken a second time this gives the shadow see invisible

    Strangle An opponent grappled by the creature cannot speak or cast spells with verbal components.
    When taken a second time this also makes the target blind while grappled

    Trip A creature with the trip special attack can attempt to trip its opponent as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity if it hits with the specified attack. If the attempt fails, the creature is not tripped in return.
    When taken a second time this grants the Push ability A creature with the Push ability can choose to make a free combat maneuver check with a claw attack. If successful, this check pushes an opponent directly away as with a bull rush. This ability only works on creatures of a size equal to or Smaller than the pushing creature. Creatures pushed in this way do not provoke attacks of opportunity and stop if the push would move them into a solid object or creature. The amount of spaced move is 5ft for every size category above medium
    Special: you may Push the target and at the end use the trip special ability as well.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Uncanny Dodge: As per the barbarian ability. At 6th this becomes improved uncanny dodge

    Spider Climb: This ability remain active at all times

    Shadow Pounce: This is a teleportation ability short range 25/5 per level in shadows only. Allows user to teleport and make his attacks and teleport out, much like pounce you must also be charge though not necessarily in a straight line. Special This can be used in conjunction with shadow grab but instead of grabbing and moving 10ft and hiding you can move up to 1/4 of your shadow pounce movement you have remaining

    Grip of the Shadow: Many make the mistake thinking that they can avoid the shadow by simply going airborne, little do they know that everything casts a shadow. The shadow can shadow pounce through an enemies shadow to the enemy itself (as long as he can shadow pounce that far). This ability allows you to shadow pounce creatures that are not on the ground.

    Shadow Image: Functions like mirror image, this is a constant effect while in shadows. At 12th this becomes harder to see through, creatures that are unaffected by illusions or can see through them normally must make make a will save to disbelieve.

    Shadow Attunement The shadow begins to attune himself to the shadows this giving him the ability to
    not have to eat at 9th the
    11th level gains the swarm subtype (tiny creatures) traits as noted: A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernible anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or less causes it to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack.
    A swarm is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate), with the exception of mind-affecting effects. A swarm takes half again as much damage (+50%) from spells or effects that affect an area, such as splash weapons and many evocation spells (including the daylight spell which cause 1d6 per caster level).
    Swarms possess the distraction ability. Spell casting or concentrating on spells within the area of a swarm requires a caster level check (DC 20 + spell level). Using skills that involve patience and concentration requires a DC 20 Will save.
    12th level doesn't need to sleep,
    15th level doesn't need to breath
    19th level he does not age.

    Swallow Whole: This is similar to the swallow whole ability If a creature with this special attack begins its turn with an opponent grappled in its mouth (see Grab), it can attempt a new combat maneuver check (as though attempting to pin the opponent). If it succeeds, it swallows its prey, and the opponent takes bite damage. The opponent can be up to one size category Smaller than the swallowing creature. Being swallowed causes a creature to take damage each round. The amount and type of damage varies and is given in the creature’s Statistics. A swallowed creature keeps the grappled condition, while the creature that did the swallowing does not. A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of cutting damage required to get free is equal to 1/10 the creature’s total hit points), or it can just try to escape the grapple. The Armor Class of the interior of a creature that swallows whole is normally 10 + 1/2 its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity. If a swallowed creature cuts its way out, the swallowing creature cannot use swallow whole again until the damage is healed. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, success puts it back in the attacker’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again.
    Special except when swallowed the target is contained in a shadowy realm of the shadows own making. When swallowed the target makes continual saves each round or dies even on successful saves the target takes constrict and engulf damage (if he has taken these features). Similar to swallow whole the target can escape by dealing 1/10 of the shadows hp (this does not do damage to the shadow as they are not stored inside of him), unlike swallow whole the shadow can still use this ability even if a target has escaped in this way. when grappling creature is always considered in its mouth as long as its in the shadow's shadow. If a creature dies this way you get a free siphon no save. At 14th the shadow gains the fast swallow ability.

    Fuse Use fusion as a psy like ability except as follows. Change target to you and target grappled. As long as you have the target fused with you you can no longer use the siphon ability. Special Any equipment the enemy might have had drops to the ground and once the abilities duration ends the enemy must make a fort save or die.
    Last edited by Ultimate_Tracke; 2013-01-01 at 10:03 AM.

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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Upon a second read through, I worry my comment is overly critical. I don't mean to offend (though you did ask for honest feedback)- it is a genuinely interesting concept, and I'd like to see it developed into a more detailed class.

    First and foremost, your text difficult to read. Typos and inconsistencies abound- for example, is Spider Climb one word or two? The first change I'd make is to read over your entire text and fix spelling and capitalization mistakes to make it easier to understand. Another example is your capstone. I think you just forgot to add it in; it says "fuse" on the table, but it's not elaborated on.

    It seems like your shadow's entire power revolves around the siphon ability, which is ridiculously powerful, so much so that the class needs to jump through all sorts of hoops (no magic items, no weapons, no armor) to balance it. The real trouble comes when that ability doesn't work. What if you fight something that can't be grappled? What if the group you're fighting against realizes that a simple Levitate spell invalidates you completely? Try to diversify your power among different abilities.

    Also, since this seems to be a rogue-type character (huge skill list, single-target focus, melee), why does it have 1/2 BAB progression? Only full casters have a BAB that low.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Thanks for the feedback.

    1. believe me I know I made mistakes, up late wanted to finish so i rushed.
    2. sadly when i started this class I didn't even think of this siphon ability, I needed something to compensate for the loss of magical items. i wanted to build a class that wasn't dependent on magical aid. i like the idea that my character has gotten better through the use of his own abilities not because he's hoarded mass amounts of magical items.
    3. fuse is in there i just didnt label where it was, its part of the siphon ability. need to update that.
    4. i admit i need to re-word everything cast a shadow and grip of the shadow. what it boils down to is no matter where the enemy might be they are still casting a shadow. grip of the shadow allows him to shadow pounce through the enemy shadow thus allowing him, as long as he has the range, to attack the target in air then teleporting safely back to ground.
    5. as for things that cannot be grappled well i purposely left that out. no matter how good a character is they have to have weeknesses. take the fighter for example take his weapons away he's not going to do that well. the wizard or sorceror, take the spell components away and even if they have escew their going to be sorely pressed.
    6. though he is based on grappling its not the only thing he has available. He can still shadow pounce and do his normal claw attacks, he's still allowed to take normal feats so its not like he couldnt trip or disarm. hell he could even siphon some poor schmuck that isn't immune to his grapple and gain some abilities that could alter the playing field to his advantage.
    7. as for diversifying my abilities im think about expanding his features, bonus feats and his size bonus to allow for other combat manuevers
    8. 1/2 bab was just another penalty i was applying to compensate for the husge bonuses he was getting, but if you believe 3/4 is not that bad with class im for it
    9. oh and with siphon i for got to put a duration (wich probably made it look pretty damn good) im still debating on this probably going for a round a lvl

    thank you again and i hope you keep following this to help me out


    EDIT: okay i think i have updated everything so far still waiting on bab
    Last edited by Ultimate_Tracke; 2012-12-24 at 05:08 PM.

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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate_Tracke View Post
    when i started this class I didn't even think of this siphon ability, I needed something to compensate for the loss of magical items.
    I'd take a good look at the Monk class- it seems to have a lot of what you're going for, especially the Ki Mystic archetype and/or Vow of Poverty in that it has a solid amount of spell-like abilities without being a caster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate_Tracke View Post
    as for things that cannot be grappled well i purposely left that out. no matter how good a character is they have to have weeknesses. take the fighter for example take his weapons away he's not going to do that well. the wizard or sorceror, take the spell components away and even if they have escew their going to be sorely pressed.
    But a Fighter can still contribute in a meaningful way without a weapon. Worst comes to worst, he picks up a nonmagical blade off a fallen enemy or attacks with fists. A Wizard can still cast spells some of the time without a spell component pouch, and Sorcerers all have Eschew Materials for free at 1st level- they don't even have a component pouch. I'm saying that whenever the enemy can't be grappled, you're stuck with a 1/2 BAB and your claws.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    with the monk stuff its nice stuff ill admit but it would never compensate for the loss of magical items and armor, which is actually what im revolving this character truly around.

    as for the second part i wasnt saying the fighter couldnt do anything but chance are he's not going to find the weapon his feats are revolved around or even have close to the same enchantments making him a the alot less then what he could be (without the appropriate feats a fighter is probably going to get his head bashed in by the aoo's he would be taking from unarmed).

    escew materials though nice only compensates for material compontents costing 1gp or less so he's not going to be casting anything to big without his components. another argument could be made, what would happen if the party realizes their fighting casters and they bring an antimagic field with them or somthing similar the class as far as i can tell doesnt have a mechanic built into it to compensate for this fact, its just a weakness

    like i was saying before nothing stop as person from taking other menuevers. if all else fails (if i change the bab to 3/4) he still gets 2 attacks with his claws gets to pounce with it which you cant even do 2 attacks with spring attack unless you take the high end feats for in 3.5. this on top of the fact that if done right he will doing it while sniping, catching them flat footed is usauly a nice way of gaining an attack bonus (uinless they have no dex). sure it not going be a powerhouse on damage when it comes to this but neither is the rogue when he cant sneak attack

    like i said ill probably change the bab to 3/4 just wanted to figure out the general consensus on wether or not it would be too much

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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Formatting people, formatting! And spelling/grammar check! Both make it much easier to read

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate_Tracke View Post
    Abilities: shadows benefit from many of the ability scores. strength for more damage, dexterity is important for their skill and lack of armor, constitution for more hp and more importantly this is the stat that determines the saves of all their abilities ill gotten or not, intelligence for their descent set of skill, wisdom for their will saves, charisma is their only real dump stat
    Okay... Haven't peach'd this part before. No one needs to know the class' life story. Limit this to the three most important. Only advertise more if it has MAD like a Monk.

    Proficiencies: shadow gains no proficiencies with armor or weapons. if they don any kind of armor they lose access to all class features and must atone for this.
    No proficiencies at all?! The closest anything comes to this is the Monk. It's typically unarmed and STILL offers weapons. Also, no armor ever is really harsh.

    Sacrifice: the shadow must give up his worldly possessions. can not use any magic items refuses magical aid from allies and cannot use any armor or weapons (other then his claws). doing so willingly (compulsions and other effects not counting) he forfeits all his class abilities until he atones.
    I would allow healing potions. IIRC even the most extreme monk vows allow healing potions. Very few people will accept this limit willingly

    bonus feats: you only need to take the feats in their natural order and use your class level when determining when you have access to the feat. all other prerequisites do not apply. these are given every 3rd level. (1st 3rd 6th and so on) this will probably be changed too many good feats here can be taken long before they should
    Any combat menu ever and their improved and greater counterparts. agile maneuvers, weapon finesse, fling enemy and the final embrace chain of feats
    special can also substitute a bonus feat for a rogue talent if below 10, if above 10 can also select advanced talents (other then the ones you wouldn't qualify for such as ones requiring sneak attack)
    Wait, what? I don't understand this ability at all.

    shadow grab: gain improved grab and after making a grab can move 10 ft after as well as make a hide check. shadow grab is a special grapple you use your class level in shadow class levels in place of your bab for cmb and cmd and size bonus is determined by your hungry shadow ability not actual size.
    Neat. I'm better at grappling

    hungry shadow: as you advance in level your shadow increases in size gaining you bonus due to its respective size, this effective size also gives you reach equal to your size.
    Again, not quite sure what this does. If it just creates numeric effects in other abilities, write those there

    shadow play: the shadow lowers the light level by 1 category in an area equal to his hungry shadow size, this increases to 2 if he spends a full round action on it (this emulate the darkness spell for purposes of dispelling light effects. this increases to 2 and 3 respectively at 13th level (becoming deeper darkness). when taking the full round action this is considered magical darkness
    State a lower limit. I'm not sure if there's anything lower than deeper darkness or what it would be

    true stealth: can take 10 on stealth checks, snipe checks reduced by 1/level. In addition stealth checks grant 1 round abilities based on how successful they are. become invisible, ethereal, bypass dark vision tremor sense blind sight/sense and scent. this only functions as a deterrent for finding him it does not convey and special bonus such as walking through walls while ethereal. help on this part would be greatly appreciated not sure what the skill checks should be for this.
    What is a snipe check?

    claws: gains 2 primary claw attacks dealing damage equal to his hungry shadow size. when determining what his claws bypasses for dr, 1/2 his level is his effective enhancement bonus (does not grant any enhancement bonuses only bypasses dr by whats determined in the magic section of players handbook)
    How do you deal damage equal to a size?

    evasion: as per the rogue ability. At 10th this becomes improved uncanny dodge
    Evasion improves to improved evasion. Uncanny dodge improves to improved uncanny dodge. You pick one or the other

    siphon: This allows you to siphon a portion of power from your enemy when grappling, gaining the effect immediately while the enemy loses this amount as well. you can siphon any stat, up to 1/2 your shadow level, you can siphon any ability (if numerical only up to 1/2 your level) ex, su or spell-like, offensive abilities, defensive abilities, feats (do not need to meet prereq's to use), or skills (cannot exceed your normal limit). the table shows how many times you may siphon from your target at a time (IE: siphon 1) and how many you may currently have active (IE:capacity 1).
    siphon's last for 1 round/lvl
    How does siphoning abilities and skills work? Actually, just elaborate on what happens. You said very, very briefly what it does. No indication of what actually happens

    Uncanny dodge: as per the barbarian ability. at 6th this becomes improved uncanny dodge
    Okay. It makes sense now. Improved uncanny dodge before was actually improved evasion. You should really fix that.

    spider climb: constant
    Constant...

    shadow pounce: this is a teleportation ability short range 25/5 per level in shadows only. allows user to teleport and make his attacks and teleport out, much like pounce you must also be charge though not necessarily in a straight line. special this can be used in conjunction with shadow grab but instead of grabbing and moving 10ft and hiding you can move up to 1/4 of your shadow pounce movement you have remaining
    So a teleport ability that only works at night or inside

    grip of the shadow: many make the mistake thinking that they can avoid the shadow by simply going airborne, little do they know that everything casts a shadow. the shadow can shadow pounce through an enemies shadow to the enemy itself (as long as he can shadow pounce that far).
    Okay... So a clarification of something he could do with Shadow Pounce

    Fuse you have learned to assimilate an entire being into your body. when you siphon you can choose to use the psionic power fusion on a target. as long as you have the target fused with you you can no longer use the siphon ability. special though this emulates the psionic power, it however is not a psionic power for this purpose (doesn't require you to be psionic or have power points to use this). fusion has a few different aspects then what is listed in the power. any equipment the enemy might have had drops to the ground and once the abilities duration ends the enemy must make a fort save or die[/QUOTE]

    Whoa.

    One final comment: Level 19 is a dead level. You might want to fix that
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate_Tracke View Post
    Sacrifice: the shadow must give up his worldly possessions. can not use any magic items refuses magical aid from allies and cannot use any armor or weapons (other then his claws). doing so willingly (compulsions and other effects not counting) he forfeits all his class abilities until he atones.
    How do they atone? They cannot, presumably, accept a spell cast on them for aid, even if they could find a cleric willing to help them.

    Also, VoP-- is truly impressive. This might be the worst class feature ever.

    shadow grab: gain improved grab and after making a grab can move 10 ft after as well as make a hide check. shadow grab is a special grapple you use your class level in shadow class levels in place of your bab for cmb and cmd and size bonus is determined by your hungry shadow ability not actual size.
    Specify what action this is, free, immediate, or what.

    true stealth: can take 10 on stealth checks, snipe checks reduced by 1/level. In addition stealth checks grant 1 round abilities based on how successful they are. become invisible, ethereal, bypass dark vision tremor sense blind sight/sense and scent. this only functions as a deterrent for finding him it does not convey and special bonus such as walking through walls while ethereal. help on this part would be greatly appreciated not sure what the skill checks should be for this.
    Explain what a snipe check is (I assume it's the penalty on a Hide check made after Sniping). Also, there is no logical manner in which becoming ethereal will not grant the ability to walk through walls. (Using the Plane of Shadow to retreat into seems more flavorful than the Ethereal Plane, honestly.)

    claws: gains 2 primary claw attacks dealing damage equal to his hungry shadow size. when determining what his claws bypasses for dr, 1/2 his level is his effective enhancement bonus (does not grant any enhancement bonuses only bypasses dr by whats determined in the magic section of players handbook)
    So, you get up to a +10 for DR bypassing?

    (Also, as another poster has mentioned, you have to actually specify the size scaling, or at the very least the starting damage die.)

    evasion: as per the rogue ability. At 10th this becomes improved uncanny dodge
    Becomes, or adds? If you lose evasion for IUD I can't say that's an advantage.

    siphon: This allows you to siphon a portion of power from your enemy when grappling, gaining the effect immediately while the enemy loses this amount as well. you can siphon any stat, up to 1/2 your shadow level, you can siphon any ability (if numerical only up to 1/2 your level) ex, su or spell-like, offensive abilities, defensive abilities, feats (do not need to meet prereq's to use), or skills (cannot exceed your normal limit). the table shows how many times you may siphon from your target at a time (IE: siphon 1) and how many you may currently have active (IE:capacity 1).
    siphon's last for 1 round/lvl
    What action is this? How many times can you siphon at once? What is meant by "defensive"/"offensive abilities"? What type of ability is this: natural (unlikely), Ex, Su, or Sp?

    Feature: each shadow learns to enhance his abilities in different ways. all abilities are in universal monster rules and deal damage accordingly. every level they can choose one of the following abilities each can be taken up to twice.
    These should be listed individually for every level. Also, the type of each (natural, Ex, Su, Sp, etc) should be listed, perhaps individually.

    shadow blending: when taken a second time
    ? This is not listed, as far as I can tell. Also, the sentence is unfinished.

    dr equal to level in shadows when taken a second time this dr applies outside of shadows
    fast healing equal to level in shadows when taken a second time this applies outside of shadows
    The fast healing is rather sudden and pretty powerful, especially when the Shadow is pretty nearly always in shadows anyway.

    spell resist equal to 11+level in shadows when taken a second time can apply outside of shadows. special cannot voluntarily lower his sr. when affect would heal him by either either positive or negative it is subject to a spell Resistance check +4 (even if it normally doesn't)
    Not really sure why you took the time to slap down teamwork once more: they already would have to atone if they allowed this.

    rake when taken a second time increase damage 1 step
    Presumably the rake damage is the same as the usual claw damage, but it's never actually stated as such.

    rend when taken a second time increase damage 1 step
    It would be nice to specify the damage here too, though it's not strictly necessary.

    bleed when taken a second time increase damage 1 step
    No idea what damage this does.

    trip when taken a second time this grants the push universal monster ability
    How far?

    shadow attunement the shadow begins to attune himself to the shadows this gives bonuses as indicated on the chart above
    No reason to make people flip back and forth here. Just state them again.

    swallow whole: this is similar to the swallow whole ability except when swallowed the target is contained in a shadowy realm of the shadows own making. when swallowed the target makes continual saves each round or dies even on successful saves the target takes constrict and engulf damage (if he has taken these features). similar to swallow whole the target can escape by dealing 1/10 of the shadows hp (this does not do damage to the shadow as they are not stored inside of him), unlike swallow whole the shadow can still use this ability even if a target has escaped in this way. when grappling creature is always considered in its mouth as long as its in the shadow's shadow. if a creature dies this way you get a free siphon no save. at 14th the shadow gains the fast swallow ability
    Capitalization would help here. Also, Siphon has a save?

    Fuse you have learned to assimilate an entire being into your body. when you siphon you can choose to use the psionic power fusion on a target. as long as you have the target fused with you you can no longer use the siphon ability. special though this emulates the psionic power, it however is not a psionic power for this purpose (doesn't require you to be psionic or have power points to use this). fusion has a few different aspects then what is listed in the power. any equipment the enemy might have had drops to the ground and once the abilities duration ends the enemy must make a fort save or die
    Just say it's a Ps ability that functions as fusion except as follows.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    How do they atone? They cannot, presumably, accept a spell cast on them for aid, even if they could find a cleric willing to help them.

    Also, VoP-- is truly impressive. This might be the worst class feature ever.
    Actually, VoP allows you to accept magical aid AND allows you your choice of one weapon or one suit of armor AND allows healing potions. This is much, much stricter

    EDIT: How are you supposed to survive? I just realized that your ENTIRE armor class is 10+Dex mod+Any natural armor you may have. No armor, no shields, no magic items, no spell buffs. Oh yeah, and only fast healing and natural healing for hp recovery. You can't accept healing spells or healing potions
    Last edited by Razanir; 2012-12-27 at 05:59 PM.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Elimu Marimech View Post
    Actually, VoP allows you to accept magical aid AND allows you your choice of one weapon or one suit of armor AND allows healing potions. This is much, much stricter
    I know. That's partly why I said it was VoP-- (the other part is that it doesn't even give you any bonuses directly as VoP does: it's supposed to counter-balance Siphon).

    Speaking of Siphon, are the bonuses from siphoned ability scores typed? (They should probably be enhancement bonuses, or perhaps sacred/profane if you want to emphasize the Shadow Being.)

    EDIT: How are you supposed to survive? I just realized that your ENTIRE armor class is 10+Dex mod+Any natural armor you may have. No armor, no shields, no magic items, no spell buffs. Oh yeah, and only fast healing and natural healing for hp recovery. You can't accept healing spells or healing potions
    Good question. Also, no resistance bonuses to saves or enhancement/inherent bonuses to ability scores. At least you can get half-decent SR? (The fact that Fast Healing is basically the only possible optimal choice for your first two levels of Feature is unfortunate as well.)

    But in general, this class does not play well with others at all. It can contribute by grappling, flanking, or doing damage, but cannot benefit from almost anything but BFC, status effects on enemies, or enemies outright killed by allies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    Good question. Also, no resistance bonuses to saves or enhancement/inherent bonuses to ability scores. At least you can get half-decent SR? (The fact that Fast Healing is basically the only possible optimal choice for your first two levels of Feature is unfortunate as well.)

    But in general, this class does not play well with others at all. It can contribute by grappling, flanking, or doing damage, but cannot benefit from almost anything but BFC, status effects on enemies, or enemies outright killed by allies.
    I found one other problem. Aren't you denied Dex to AC while grappling? So if you're grappling (which you probably are, because it's centered around grappling) your AC is 10. I wouldn't like having 10 AC if I had d12s, or even d20s
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Elimu Marimech View Post
    I found one other problem. Aren't you denied Dex to AC while grappling? So if you're grappling (which you probably are, because it's centered around grappling) your AC is 10. I wouldn't like having 10 AC if I had d12s, or even d20s
    Fortunately, no, at least not in PF; you do, however, seem to take a -4 penalty to Dex. So a lot of the time your AC will be 10+Dex+size-2. (I assume, though it's not entirely clear, that Hungry Shadow doesn't give you size penalties to Hide, AC, or attack.)
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    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    i made quite a few changes according to what you have all said not done yet with all of them but i think i have covered most. will get to more when i can get back online this weekend. by the way just curious is this to over powered under powered or am i close to getting this right.

    as for not having ac i have always noticed that at higher levels with ac monsters seem to always hit (unless you can min max your ac) and even if you have alot of ac theres always away around your ac with touch flat footed and so on. with this you can get 75% concealment, dr, fast healing, spell resist and the ability to take any ability from an enemy that migt be more effective such as natural armor, and though he wont accept spell from his allties nothing stops him from siphoning an active spell ( yes i know i still need to clarify what all he can steal with this ability)

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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate_Tracke View Post
    i made quite a few changes according to what you have all said not done yet with all of them but i think i have covered most. will get to more when i can get back online this weekend. by the way just curious is this to over powered under powered or am i close to getting this right.

    as for not having ac i have always noticed that at higher levels with ac monsters seem to always hit (unless you can min max your ac) and even if you have alot of ac theres always away around your ac with touch flat footed and so on. with this you can get 75% concealment, dr, fast healing, spell resist and the ability to take any ability from an enemy that migt be more effective such as natural armor, and though he wont accept spell from his allties nothing stops him from siphoning an active spell ( yes i know i still need to clarify what all he can steal with this ability)
    Even then, higher armor class lets you get hit less often. Also, you never addressed the problem about healing so slowly. You also didn't give use damage dice for the claw attack.

    Side note: Not to sound rude, but there's a shift key for a reason. Even just proper capitalization (I, start of sentences, DR, AC) will make your posts much more readable.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate_Tracke View Post
    i made quite a few changes according to what you have all said not done yet with all of them but i think i have covered most. will get to more when i can get back online this weekend. by the way just curious is this to over powered under powered or am i close to getting this right.
    At present, it's both under- and over-powered. For example, the fast healing is extremely powerful, but the claws are pretty weak.

    Incidentally, what part of the swarm traits are granted, and at what level, 9th or 11th? And what bypasses the DR Feature — /-, /magic?

    Also, there's no particular benefit to copying in the universal monster rules for Rend, Rake, etc: I already looked those up and they don't clarify anything that was left unclear before (such as, you know, the exact damage done). Linking them in the subheading for each Feature would be tidier.

    as for not having ac i have always noticed that at higher levels with ac monsters seem to always hit (unless you can min max your ac) and even if you have alot of ac theres always away around your ac with touch flat footed and so on. with this you can get 75% concealment, dr, fast healing, spell resist and the ability to take any ability from an enemy that migt be more effective such as natural armor, and though he wont accept spell from his allties nothing stops him from siphoning an active spell ( yes i know i still need to clarify what all he can steal with this ability)
    First, there's a qualitative difference between "can nearly always be hit on highest attack bonus" and "can always be hit even with full power attack and full combat expertise with an improvised weapon two sizes too large on all iteratives while two-weapon fighting". There's also a difference between "class has trouble getting enough AC to really reduce number of hits" and "class forbids you from even trying to get any permanent AC".

    Secondly, the SR granted is only average, and the concealment is not all that difficult to negate. (Granted, Shadow Image is a bit trickier to get around, and the DR is pretty good, while the fast healing is extremely high.) Depending on the exact enemy and the actions needed, Siphon could be quite useful: 10 natural armor helps a good bit, yes, and 2-3 deflection (how much Cha will a Shadow have to power Unearthly Grace or the like, anyway?) isn't entirely useless. However, time spent shoring up defenses in the middle of combat is time spent not defeating the enemy, and surprise rounds are a thing. Also, total AC of 20+Dex or so at level 20 is ... pretty terribad.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Ok yes I know I had to get all the grammar and everything else correct. I went through and edited what i saw hopefully this makes it easier to read.

    I changed what you asked me to changed. I gave him a bonus to AC equal to his Charisma and more through levels.

    I changed his fast healing to 1/2 his level but gave him an ability to heal himself as well.

    Spell Resist upon taking a second time gives spell turning (though thinking this might be a bit too much).

    Changed DR to DR/-

    swarm traits are at 11th level and gains some of the swarm traits as noted (of tiny shadows)

    As a side note I also changed the text for pull and entrap so they can be used in conjunction with each other not one or the other.

    i linked the universal monster rules (used d20pfsrd site) and edited the text on some of these so everyting should show what damage they do, if not tell me what ones im missing.

    Again thank you for all the critisism and please keep it coming.
    Last edited by Ultimate_Tracke; 2012-12-31 at 03:07 AM.

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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Ultimate_Tracke View Post
    I changed what you asked me to changed. I gave him a bonus to AC equal to his Charisma and more through levels.
    Hmm, that may help. Should probably note the bonus type (Cha to AC is often deflection), just in case the Shadow somehow manages to get another source of AC.

    I changed his fast healing to 1/2 his level but gave him an ability to heal himself as well.
    The amount of healing on a full round action is pretty low. 10+Con at level 20, when you have fast healing 10? Not really worth it. I'd suggest pulling FH down to 1/4 level at most and giving the Shadow a daily pool of healing equal to 4 or 5 times level, some or all of it usable as a swift action and let them split it up between uses (basically, accelerated Lay On Hands).

    Spell Resist upon taking a second time gives spell turning (though thinking this might be a bit too much).
    Hmm. You could just bump it up another 5 points instead of giving Spell Turning. Boring, but practical. Also, not sure why the provision for "always being level 10" is there: SR 21 at level 1 is way too good, but (by strict wording) SR 21 is level 20 is terrible.

    swarm traits are at 11th level and gains some of the swarm traits as noted (of tiny shadows)

    As a side note I also changed the text for pull and entrap so they can be used in conjunction with each other not one or the other.

    i linked the universal monster rules (used d20pfsrd site) and edited the text on some of these so everyting should show what damage they do, if not tell me what ones im missing.
    OK, although you can probably take out the direct quotes (or else edit them a bit more so they flow better), since all that's really necessary is being able to refer to them unambiguously. (For example, with Shadow Attunement all you need is "(swarm) subtype, tiny".) Rake is still a little troublesome; I assume it's regular claw damage, but it's technically not stated (it's the only one I noticed that doesn't have a damage included).

    Also, you should probably change the formatting around so it's easier to see when the Feature sublist stops and the list of class features continues. Perhaps italics or underlines instead of bold? (Indenting would also be handy.)
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    It's looking better now, but there's still one glaring problem. Not being allowed any magic items or any magical aid is a much bigger penalty than you seem to get. IMO, no number of class features can make up for that. Also, what is the ruling on if an enemy spellcaster casts a spell on you? RAW, you lose your class abilities because of this.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    Quote Originally Posted by Elimu Marimech View Post
    Also, what is the ruling on if an enemy spellcaster casts a spell on you? RAW, you lose your class abilities because of this.
    Oh yeah, that reminds me: atonement still doesn't work. (It's a helpful spell cast by an ally, since you obviously can't Siphon with your class abilities turned off, and there aren't any Clerics of the Shadow, seemingly, so there's no one to cast it on you anyway.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
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    Default Re: shadow peach

    with swarm i didn't want to give them everything there are a few things in there like cannot grapple which doesn't quite go with the class lol. As for the the spell resist part the special was for the spell turning not the spell resist, treated as having 10 spell levels at all times, but your right I will change this to an increased amount of spell resist.

    As for the spells part i did put in there that if he willingly accepts the spell then yeah he would have to atone (though I'm not sure any adventurer would willingly accept finger of death from an enemy caster). As for atonement I wasn't necessarily going with the spell atonement, haven't thought up a good way to atone yet.

    As for the glaring problem of no magic items and spells yes i understand that d&d is based off of how many magic items a character can hoard on himself and not actually based on the character progressing. If this is my only downfall for this class then i would gladly accept this. I'm not saying that this should be a class everyone should play, just that like vow of poverty its more of an alternative.

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