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    Default Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    Just read over the Extraordinary Spell Aim feat again, and suddenly had a realization this might be usable with Antimagic Field while excluding yourself without needing Initiate of Mystra. Plus it allows you to DMM Persist on yourself which was always arguable with Initiate of Mystra (DMM being a supernatural effect which Antimagic Field would suppress) Arguably one might need both feats to still make the field stop suppressing magic you cast AND get the Persist... thoughts?

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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    It's a working (and well known) tactic, quite effective for melee focused CZillas.
    Last edited by docnessuno; 2012-12-07 at 09:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    The problem with all "donut AMF" tricks is that they defeat the purpose of AMF. By creating a magic-allowed zone in your square, many of the things that you'd normally be immune to can now affect you. For example, if someone fires a lightning bolt at you, it will fly into your AMF ring and be suppressed mid-flight, then immediately reactivate once it enters your square - frying you just as if you had no AMF up at all. Similarly, if you tried to walk through a wall of fire, it would be suppressed until your ring passed through it... then reignite once your live magic zone passed over it and damage you.

    It does protect you from some things though. Any instantaneous spell centered outside your square (i.e. within the ring) will be wholly suppressed - so if someone wants to fireball you, they have to either drop it in the live zone (your square) or outside the ring. Also, summons and incorporeal undead who try to approach you will wink out, meaning they can never engage you in melee. (Though a ghost could attack you through the floor by going directly under your square.)

    The point is that it works both ways - a shaped AMF lets your magic work in your square, but it lets the magic of others do so as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    The problem with all "donut AMF" tricks is that they defeat the purpose of AMF. By creating a magic-allowed zone in your square, many of the things that you'd normally be immune to can now affect you. For example, if someone fires a lightning bolt at you, it will fly into your AMF ring and be suppressed mid-flight, then immediately reactivate once it enters your square - frying you just as if you had no AMF up at all. Similarly, if you tried to walk through a wall of fire, it would be suppressed until your ring passed through it... then reignite once your live magic zone passed over it and damage you.

    It does protect you from some things though. Any instantaneous spell centered outside your square (i.e. within the ring) will be wholly suppressed - so if someone wants to fireball you, they have to either drop it in the live zone (your square) or outside the ring. Also, summons and incorporeal undead who try to approach you will wink out, meaning they can never engage you in melee. (Though a ghost could attack you through the floor by going directly under your square.)

    The point is that it works both ways - a shaped AMF lets your magic work in your square, but it lets the magic of others do so as well.
    Note that RAW Extraordinary spell aim doesn't actually create holes into the AMF (despite the descriptive text), it just allow a creature to be unaffected by it.

    Also, going toe-to-toe with someone with all of your precious magic gear still functional while his gear is worthless nonmagical crap is a pretty big plus in my book.

    Edit:
    ESM AMF grappler = win
    Last edited by docnessuno; 2012-12-07 at 10:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    Quote Originally Posted by docnessuno View Post
    Note that RAW Extraordinary spell aim doesn't actually create holes into the AMF (despite the descriptive text), it just allow a creature to be unaffected by it.
    This is how I had interpreted it.
    No mention of an area effect, only that the target is not subject to the effects of the spell.

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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    But if you're not affected by it, that means that spells that target you should still work. There's no AMF on you after all. In other words - if you can target yourself with a buff, why can't they target you with a magic missile?

    You might be protected from rays and other aimed spells though. (Not orbs though, obviously.)
    Last edited by Psyren; 2012-12-07 at 10:41 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    But if you're not affected by it, that means that spells that target you should still work. There's no AMF on you after all. In other words - if you can target yourself with a buff, why can't they target you with a magic missile?

    You might be protected from rays and other aimed spells though. (Not orbs though, obviously.)
    Considering AMF was clarified to not block LoE yes, you are affected by spells (unless they are area spells). The main advantage is that if they are inside your AMF they cannot cast them. You suppress Su, Mag, Psi, Spellcasting, Manifesting and any magic item of your opponent as long as you can keep them inside the AMF. Meanwhile you are a caster at its full potential, decked out in magic items and buffed behind immagination.

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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    Quote Originally Posted by docnessuno View Post
    Considering AMF was clarified to not block LoE yes, you are affected by spells (unless they are area spells). The main advantage is that if they are inside your AMF they cannot cast them. You suppress Su, Mag, Psi, Spellcasting, Manifesting and any magic item of your opponent as long as you can keep them inside the AMF. Meanwhile you are a caster at its full potential, decked out in magic items and buffed behind immagination.
    It's a 10-foot radius though - they can simply step out of it before casting. You can certainly screw melee since their weapons will all be downgraded to masterwork, but then melee is screwed against casters in general anyway.

    More to the point - since targeted spells work on you, they can simply dispel/disjoin all your buffs anyway, just like they would without the AMF.

    To me it doesn't add a whole lot.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2012-12-07 at 11:59 AM.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    It's a 10-foot radius though - they can simply step out of it before casting. You can certainly screw melee since their weapons will all be downgraded to masterwork, but then melee is screwed against casters in general anyway.

    More to the point - since targeted spells work on you, they can simply dispel/disjoin all your buffs anyway, just like they would without the AMF.

    To me it doesn't add a whole lot.
    As if lockdown / movement denial is hard to obtain, excpecially against "nonmagical" opponents

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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    Quote Originally Posted by docnessuno View Post
    As if lockdown / movement denial is hard to obtain, excpecially against "nonmagical" opponents
    Most PC classes are magical though. And antimagic shell is pretty easy to block.

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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    Quote Originally Posted by Togo View Post
    Most PC classes are magical though. And antimagic shell is pretty easy to block.
    1) We are talking about antimagic field, not antimagic shell.
    2) While your opponent is inside the antimagic field he IS "nonmagical", barring some very limited tricks.

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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    If an enemy wizard lets you get and stay within 10 feet of him for a whole fight he deserves what he gets.

    It's not a bad tactic but not quite a silver bullet either. At the very least, immunity to summons and area spells that don't target you is handy.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Quote Originally Posted by gogogome View Post
    Cheers to Psyren the MVP "naysayer".
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Extraordinary Spell Aim Antimagic Field

    Quote Originally Posted by docnessuno View Post
    1) We are talking about antimagic field, not antimagic shell.
    2) While your opponent is inside the antimagic field he IS "nonmagical", barring some very limited tricks.
    Owning a tower sheild, or similar portable barrier, is limited?

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