Spellcasting in RPGs

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

Earlier, I had a thread on combat in RPGs. Someone brought up how fighters in games such as D&D only have a few different ways of hitting things with a sword, all very abstract, while spell-casters have dozens of specific spells.

This got me thinking.

This is how I like spell-casting to be handled in RPGs. The concept I bring up is not mine. It can be seen in games such as Savage Worlds and Mutants & Masterminds.

Spellcasters should all share the same spell list. There should be no more than a couple of dozen spells, tops. Instead, each spell should be very abstract and customisable, almost a "build-a-spell" template.

An example spell list:

• Close Damaging Burst.
• Close Aiding Burst.
• Focused Damage.
• Focused Aid.
• Ranged Damaging Burst.
• Ranged Aiding Burst.
• Adjacent Damage.
• Adjacent Aid.
• Generate Light Source.
• Generate Barrier.
• Self-Aid.
• Improved Movement.
• Teleportation.

Each spell would simply be a mechanical effect that could be modified greatly, and described in any way.

[Greylond]

Already been done in a couple of different games. I think Fantasy Hero(Fantasy version of Hero System) did this, so did a game called "Warp World."

[Ravens_cry]

Personally, I'd like to try the Ars Magica verb-noun approach some time.
It feels like it could have some major creative possibilities.

[Clistenes]

Some time ago I thought of creating a homebrew spellcasting system for a realistic medieval world, in which spells could be taken as feats (each having Wisdom, Intelligence, Spellcraft, Concentration and Knowledge-Magic requirements). There would be only a few spells: "Heal Wound", "Remove Disease/Poisoning", "Regenerate/Remove Blindness/Remove Deafness/Restoration", "Divination", "Control Air/Weather", "Manipulate Fire", "Manipulate Water", "Manipulate Earth/Stone", "Control Animal", "Illusion", "Curse", "Detect and Remove Curse", "Mind Manipulation", "Necromancy", "Demonology"...etc.

There would also be feats that enhance your already existing spells (sort of "Weak Magic", "Moderate Magic", "Strong Magic", "Overwhelming Magic"...etc.). If you take those feats you can cast more powerful effects.

So there wouldn't be spellcasting classes, only fighters, rogues, and sages, and some prestige classes like priest, knight, bard, woodsman (but the sages would receive more skill points, so they could fulfill the requirements earlier). Any character with access to a spellbook could learn a spell feat, and later he/she could take more spell feats or the feats that strenghen the feat that you already have.

Each kind of magic would be linked to a profession: Healers, Astrologers (Diviners), Weather Sellers, Magicians (Illusionists), Caravan-drivers/Farmers/Shepherds (Control Animal) and Witches/Warlocks (any magic that controls or hurts people).

Healers would be almost as respected as the aristocracy, and many priests would learn the healing arts. Astrologists would have the same social status as scribes or skilled artisans, and would serve lords. Magicians would be seen as similar to actors and musicians (cheered, but not too respected).
Weather Sellers would be seen with suspicion and fear (they are suspect of sending bad winds to those who don't hire them) but their services would still be appreciated. Animal controllers would be treated mostly as charlatans, but those who show real power are feared.
Both Weather Sellers and Animal Controllers are in danger of being labeled as witches and burnt, but the real witches are the necromancers, curse-casters, fire manipulators and demonologists, who live hidden from the world and are the stuff of scary tales and nightmares.

Problem is, I`m lazy, and to create a whole new system is a lot of work.

[ThiagoMartell]

Ars Magica has been doing this for, I don't know, 30 years? Something like that. Even Mage by White Wolf, both CWoD and NWoD, works like that.
In fact, I'm going on a limb to say most games use this for their magic systems instead of spell lists that take 1/3 of the book. It takes less space and it's easier to design, after all. Fixed spell list games are in the minority, it's just that the most popular RPG uses it. Well, considering how many 3.5 clones there are out there, it's probably not a minority anymore. But I'm pretty sure it was a minority before the OGL

[Grod_The_Giant]

The other important side of this-- at least in M&M-- is the ability to improvise. M&M uses power stunt rules, but I'm sure there could be others. It helps preserve flexibility without requiring large sets of powers, be they pre-built or self-built.

[warty goblin]

Earlier, I had a thread on combat in RPGs. Someone brought up how fighters in games such as D&D only have a few different ways of hitting things with a sword, all very abstract, while spell-casters have dozens of specific spells.

This got me thinking.

This is how I like spell-casting to be handled in RPGs. The concept I bring up is not mine. It can be seen in games such as Savage Worlds and Mutants & Masterminds.

Spellcasters should all share the same spell list. There should be no more than a couple of dozen spells, tops. Instead, each spell should be very abstract and customisable, almost a "build-a-spell" template.

If you're leaving the spells open to mechanical customization I think you're still not solving the problem of spellcasters having lots of cool stuff to do while fighters do the same thing every turn. Arguably you're making it worse, since the spellcaster's options go from a third of the book to pretty much anything you can dream up. Unless a guy with a sword has similarly open ended possibilities, and I at least haven't that, they're in the same boat as before.

As I said in the last thread, the solution isn't to mess with spellcasting systems that work and people enjoy. The solution is to come up with a more interesting system for physical combat.

[Geostationary]

Nobilis, while high-powered, manages to be absurdly open-ended for both magicky people and fighty people. How? Each of the four Attributes is rated from 0-9, which each level doing a specific range of things- for example, Domain 4 lets you create up to enough [x] to fill roughly a few city blocks or so, or summon nearby [x]s. So long as the thing you're doing fits into your Estate (the thing that you control), you can do just about anything so long as your miracle is of a high-enough level and you can justify it. The fighty people can get along with this for a few reasons- first, any miracle can directly oppose another one, so long as you can justify the opposition; second, once you reach a high enough level of Aspect (the physical/mental attribute), you can do the explicitly impossible, so long as it makes some degree of sense as something a person could do (the book refers to this as "fairy tale logic", and it lets you do things like drink oceans, pocket mountains, pluck stars from the sky, and so on).

The problem is solved by allowing any given attribute to only really be limited by what they player can devise, and in some ways Aspect is more flexible than the other stats (but the other attributes can do things that Aspect is entirely incapable of, along with working with the Estate's properties). Physical combat and the more obviously "magical" stuff are handled more or less identically, except in regards to their effect on the world and what the action taken consists of. Mechanically, physical feats and overtly magical actions are identical.

This is a chart of the various miracle levels, with some examples of what they can do.

[GolemsVoice]

If you're leaving the spells open to mechanical customization I think you're still not solving the problem of spellcasters having lots of cool stuff to do while fighters do the same thing every turn. Arguably you're making it worse, since the spellcaster's options go from a third of the book to pretty much anything you can dream up. Unless a guy with a sword has similarly open ended possibilities, and I at least haven't that, they're in the same boat as before.

Tweaking the spellcasting system doesn't mean that meelee remains unchanged (and in any game that ISN'T D&D, really, mundane people are often pretty well off). And you can limit the options of spellcasters pretty easily by just not giving them that much. Put a limit on the effects they can achieve, and everything outside of this is just not possible. However, within these limits, they can combine freely. Not a bad thing, I'd say.