Is it right for a GM to steal?

[Morithias]

One of the primary things I was taught as a DM was "be entertaining over being creative".

Ultimately this has lead to most of my games heavily featuring characters, maps, and plot points and characters arcs that are for lack of a better term, stolen.

For example, one of the characters that pops up very often in my games is Maria Custard, the engineer.

Now right now, few if any of you know where she is from, but yes the blue-haired glasses wearing engineer who carries a bazooka and names every one of her inventions after a flower is not an original creation.

I've received....basically no backlash. I don't know if it's just that she's so obscure that no one knows that I stole her, or if they truly don't care.

For example, would you get more annoyed if instead of stealing from obscure x-rated games no one has ever heard of, I stole from say the final fantasy series? Making the town guard a buff, buster-sword wielding guy named Cloud?

My personal opinion always was "stealing is okay if you add a twist". Basically you can take the design, but you need to alter it to minor degrees, both to prevent metagaming, and to prevent looking uncreative.

I just suck at designing characters, and names even more. Stealing is one of the easy ways to cut a lot of design time out, and from what I've been getting from my players, still have decent games.

So what is the forum's take on this?

[hymer]

"Plagiarize, plagiarize, plagiarize! Only be sure to call it always please research."

- Tom Lehrer

As long as you're not breaking any laws, steal research away. It's better to borrow what your players won't notice you're borrowing, but even if they do notice, you're likely to be forgiven because they feel so clever about finding out.

And yes, I agree that adding twists is the way to go.

Edit: Of course, don't borrow anything remotely iconic. Just don't. It will steal attention from the game in ways you can barely imagine.

[Andreaz]

Edit: Of course, don't borrow anything remotely iconic. Just don't. It will steal attention from the game in ways you can barely imagine.

Unless it's a one-time event, like turning people into tang.

[Craft (Cheese)]

"Creativity is the art of knowing how to hide one's sources." - Original quote, DO NOT STEAL.

Anyway, what hymer said. The biggest danger in idea-theft is breaking the suspension of disbelief: If the players recognize something from popular culture, and the campaign is not specifically built around that piece of culture, they'll get sucked out of the game faster than you can blink. Basically, don't quote Darth Vader unless you explicitly want your players to think of that character as Vader.

[Morithias]

"Creativity is the art of knowing how to hide one's sources." - Original quote, DO NOT STEAL.

Anyway, what hymer said. The biggest danger in idea-theft is breaking the suspension of disbelief: If the players recognize something from popular culture, and the campaign is not specifically built around that piece of culture, they'll get sucked out of the game faster than you can blink. Basically, don't quote Darth Vader unless you explicitly want your players to think of that character as Vader.

Yeah, I never run "Canon" games.

If you're in a star wars game set in the time of the clone wars, there will be clones, there will be jedi, but none of them will be Jedi from star wars.

If I'm running a star trek game, there is no kirk, if I'm running a shadowrun game, there is no...I don't know any shadowrun characters, and in D&D, it is always "original" setting (For certain values of original).

[Vitruviansquid]

This isn't really a moral issue as the thread title implies... it's not like you're making any money, you're just entertaining your friends.

That said, stealing's great if nobody notices. As you mentioned, it's a great way to make up for your personal shortcomings as a GM. You just have to be aware that if your players realize you're stealing, it'll probably break their immersion something awful.

The solution is to just make sure you're really really good at stealing.

[Volthawk]

Eh, as far as I'm concerned, if grabbing stuff from existing material makes your games more fun, go ahead.

[Jessica1990]

Maybe I should give it a try

[Kitten Champion]

You're going to be stealing most of everything anyways, even if you aren't aware of it.

[RPGuru1331]

If your players are having fun, yeah, knock yourself out.

[Morrolan]

Stealing in and of itself is fine with me, if the DM sticks to the stolen character's story and personality.
I would find Cloud turned city guard kind of an insult to the character (assuming he was never a guard, not an expert here).

For example: I use my username (Morrolan) quite often as character name, but always only for a type of character that would somehow fit the original Morrolan E'Drien from the Steven Brust novels.

But heck, if it's for fun

[DigoDragon]

I steal stuff all the time for my campaigns. As long as I focus on the core concept of what I'm taking, modifying it to fit into the context of the adventure, and not do a straight copy/paste it usually works out fine.

[Shpadoinkle]

Steal? Lifting a character wholesale is iffy and speaks of laziness and a lack of creativity. Now, taking inspiration from somewhere is another matter (relevant comics continue through number 191.)

[Incom]

"Creativity is the art of knowing how to hide one's sources." - Original quote, DO NOT STEAL.

Sig material.

[nedz]

Lamp shading can be fun.

Player creates a venerable PC.

At some point the BBEG says "Luke you are my father".

[TheTick]

Definitely use other material as 'inspiriation', especially if you want to flesh out something or someone but don't want to spend a month writing backstories for every single NPC. Don't name your bartender Quark, but if you want to have a scheming businessman bartender who might be a source of plothooks or sidequests, go for it. Don't name that scoundrel captain Mal or Han, but do take inspiration from their mix of humor and 'shoot first, ask questions later' mentality. They're tropes for a reason - they're fun characters to have around (and to write).

[Andreaz]

Definitely use other material as 'inspiriation', especially if you want to flesh out something or someone but don't want to spend a month writing backstories for every single NPC. Don't name your bartender Quark, but if you want to have a scheming businessman bartender who might be a source of plothooks or sidequests, go for it. Don't name that scoundrel captain Mal or Han, but do take inspiration from their mix of humor and 'shoot first, ask questions later' mentality. They're tropes for a reason - they're fun characters to have around (and to write).

One of the best ways I know to do that is to "sort" plot hooks in my head by their general idea. Plots that fit with bartenders will pop in my head when the bartender happens to be how I next hand a plot. Differentiating the bartenders is a matter of making up personalities and (very) short backstories on the fly and adjusting the plot to the locale.
(I make it sound easy, but it's damn hard o.o But it's the easiest I know how to do)

[valadil]

Here's how I see it. Individually stolen items may not be unique, but the combination of them will be original. If you take the trash compactor scene from Star Wars, replace the characters with Jon Stewart, Hulk Hogan, and Batman, and set them solving the kidnapping plot from Big Lebowski, the result will assuredly be unique. Scenario * characters * plot is going to be something new, even if all the ingredients are recycled.

My advice beyond that is to steal aspects of things instead of stealing the whole thing. Good characters are multifaceted. Steal one character's cockiness, another's resourcefulness, and a third's sense of humor. The combination will be unique. Anyone watching that character will probably have a hard time figuring out where you got those elements.

[shadow_archmagi]

Everything worth saying has already been said, but that isn't going to stop me from rehashing it. (Applies both to life in general and this thread specifically)

There aren't really any ethics of creativity (Unless you're designing propaganda to convince people to throw babies off of tall buildings, or driving an author out of business by selling their own book with slight edits) so the real debate is about what works.

Generally speaking, it's always better to adapt than to copypaste. Using a character that is explicitly Darth Vader in your D&D campaign is going to break suspension of disbelief so fast. However, if you just stat up a half-golem psychic warrior with a penchant for black and a deep voice, you can capture the essence of Vader without disrupting the game.

For example, I'm current running a Rogue Trader Endeavor loosely based on Dead Space 2. Creepy girl, mutants, giant monolith- all there. Of course, I've adapted it. The marker is actually an Eldar prison for a Greater Demon (specifically a Lord Of Change) posing as a sort of 'Guardian of the Shrine' Eldar spirit, but the players won't know that until well after they kill the cultists "corrupting" the monolith, declare it safe, and bring it aboard their ship.

[Morph Bark]

Take material.

Put your own spin on it.

Originality!

[comicshorse]

" Good artists borrow, great artists steal "

[Jay R]

If you publish it under your name, and claim to have written it yourself, that's plagiarism, and it's illegal.

If you copy sequences of words from published sources, without buying the source, that's copyright violation, and it's illegal. (Note that quoting a movie is fine. Publishing the movie script is not.)

But if you read a book, or watch a movie, and use that material in your own fun without trying to make money off of it, then that it perfectly legal.

[PetterTomBos]

I know this is like cutting away a chunk of your time, if you haven't run into it before, but tvtropes.org is a great place to find ideas in preptime (use the random plot generator! )

I have never thought of the amount of which I steal, but I steal as much as I can. As long as your players find it fun and awesome, do what you want. The amount of tweaking needed really depends upon players.

[Joe the Rat]

Borrowing of ideas makes for some quick shortcuts. You can use a concept, archetype, or specific example to deliver a LOT of information in a brief period. You can give off a "Darth Vader" feel without being a seven food all-clad warlord with a flaming sword and psychic powers (who may or may not be your father). There are a LOT of PCs that fall under the "Basically this character from this show/book/game, with the following changes" or "This character crossed with this character." No reason the GM should abstain. If you start talking about older archetypes, then it starts getting rather endemic. A "Robin Hood" type outlaw (or Zorro-type if he works alone). A Hercules (or Gilgamesh)-type power brawler. A sagacious wanderer with a long beard. The evil chancellor/vizier/vice president. The wicked stepmother. The frenzied berserker (in many flavors). The vagabond master swordsman. The good king, bad king, fisher king, king in hiding.

Obviously, the more specific the theft, the more blatant the transplant. The less you tweak the concept, the less screen time the stolen character should have. Cloud the emotionally withdrawn City Guard with a huge sword is a one-off humor concept. The surprisingly young city guard with a huge sword and a disturbing vibe about him is a bit more workable (and could make a good plot hook/ red herring if there's trouble). An amnesiac super-solder with outlandish skills and weaponry is vague enough a foundation to run with. Using just one aspect (appearance, personality, character type) makes this less mood-breaking.

Admittedly, using an obscure source ends up being an easy shortcut for you, rather than the players. In a current campaign, I'm playing a character that lifts the backstory of Guts from Berserk as a foundation (foundling raised by mercenaries, uses oversized weapons, exceedingly violent, a bit touchy), but without 85% of the grimdark details. And he's a Halfling. None of the other players (or GM) have any clue what this is, so it flies along nicely.

All of the above may go out the window if you're playing for comedy, mind you.

[Jay R]

How much are you using?

If you use a line from Shakespeare, then you are quoting.

If you use an idea from each of three or four plays, then you are doing research.

But if you steal outright the entire plot of Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, or Macbeth, then you're in good company, because that's what Shakespeare did.

[nedz]

Indeed: your cultural references will really resonate.

[Morithias]

But if you steal outright the entire plot of Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, or Macbeth, then you're in good company, because that's what Shakespeare did.

Heh...there's starting to be a huge Shakespeare backlash, and the sad part is I don't disagree with it. Most of his stuff is low quality, and outdated, and stolen to boot.

[Bacon Elemental]

. However, if you just stat up a half-golem psychic warrior with a penchant for black and a deep voice, you can capture the essence of Vader without disrupting the game

Half... Golem...

*Craft: disturbing mental image: 20*

[Poil]

Half... Golem...

*Craft: disturbing mental image: 20*

Wouldn't it just be a fantasy version of a cyborg?

[Volthawk]

Half... Golem...

*Craft: disturbing mental image: 20*

It's not that disturbing, it's just the name they gave to someone who's had a golem limb grafted onto them to replace one of their own. Plays havoc with the mind - you need to make a save or lose your memories and have an extreme hatred of living creatures, and even if you keep hold of your mind you're looking at -6 Int and Cha.

Construct grafts would probably be better for the job, I'd think.