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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Khefernatra's Gracious Wound Refusal, 3rd lvl necro. immediate spell [3.PF, PEACH]

    I play a good-aligned necromancer wizard specialist in a 3.PF game. Dismayed by a shortage of spells for such a character, I am attempting to design a few. I need more white necromantic spells, but the proposed spell below would not actually be one of them (just a light gray).

    This 3rd level spell is proposed as a way to allow arcane necromancy to remove/avert damage, by instantly shifting it back along the karmic path to its inflictor, something like an insta-curse. On the one hand, it doesn't avert/cause much damage. On the other, it is only an immediate action to cast. Please let me know what you think.

    Khefernatra's Gracious Wound Refusal
    School: Necromancy; Level: Sorcerer/wizard 3; Witch 3
    Range: close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
    Components: V, S
    Duration: instantaneous
    Casting Time: 1 immediate action
    Area of Effect: caster and one other creature
    Saving Throw: Will yes; Spell Resistance: yes

    By casting this spell, the mage removes some or all of the hit point damage he or she received from a single attack (of any type, physical or magical) earlier in the round of casting and transfers that damage to the target, who must be the being or creature directly responsible for dealing that damage to the mage, with a limit of 2 hit points damage/caster level transferred and a maximum of 30 hit points at 15th caster level.

    A save vs. Will is allowed to the target and, if successful, the spell fails and the mage’s injuries remain. The attack in question need not have been directed solely against the mage; damage from area of effect spells (e.g., fireballs) is acceptable. However, indirect damage from an attack (e.g., damage taken from a fall suffered because the mage was pushed off a ledge) could not be returned to the pusher as that damage would be caused by hitting the ground, not by the push, although damage from the push itself (if any) could be returned. Damage suffered by traps is also incapable of being returned by this spell.

    The amount of damage returned is not decreased or increased by any damage reduction, immunity, or vulnerabilities possessed by the target versus the specific attack form that inflicted the damage. Any concommitant effects such as poison, sickness, or ability damage are not transferred with the hit point damage, but remain with the mage. Note that despite the speed of this spell, if the mage takes more hit points of damage in an attack than she currently possesses, she may not use this spell to return that damage before losing consciousness unless she has the Diehard feat or an equivalent ability (e.g., ferocity).

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Griffon

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    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Khefernatra's Gracious Wound Refusal, 3rd lvl necro. immediate spell [3.PF, PEACH

    That looks like a really fun spell to use. Though have you thought about having the healing/damage be separate, something like;
    it deals up to 2dmg/caster level, up to the amount of damage taken this round and additionally, it heals you up to 2hp/cl up to the amount of damage taken this round.

    That way if they resist the damage, you can still be healed, or have the will save be a partial effect, like it reduces the damage they take be half, or perhaps negates the damage they take, but you still heal all or half of the hp you would've.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Khefernatra's Gracious Wound Refusal, 3rd lvl necro. immediate spell [3.PF, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by XionUnborn01 View Post
    That looks like a really fun spell to use. Though have you thought about having the healing/damage be separate, something like;
    it deals up to 2dmg/caster level, up to the amount of damage taken this round and additionally, it heals you up to 2hp/cl up to the amount of damage taken this round.

    That way if they resist the damage, you can still be healed, or have the will save be a partial effect, like it reduces the damage they take be half, or perhaps negates the damage they take, but you still heal all or half of the hp you would've.
    Hm, I'll try the partial effect and see what people think.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Banned
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Khefernatra's Gracious Wound Refusal, 3rd lvl necro. immediate spell [3.PF, PEACH

    This spell might be too good. It heals the caster and does damage. That is two effects for one spell...but then again it's just a 'good' vampire touch'.

    But..woah, you don't want the spell doing awesome untyped damage do you? That is way too powerful.

    Also, why a Will save? How do you figure someone failing a will save and then taking real damage?

    My suggestion: As a White Necromancy spell, this spell steals life force(aka hit points) from the target that attacked you and uses that to heal you. So wound a target by doing damage, then healing(like the effect of Vampire Touch or you create a 'white hole' that sucks away some of their lifeforce.). And that would be a Fort save as it's necromancy. And the fort save makes undead nicely immune to the spell. That also makes the spell damage 'hit point drain' and not untyped, so it would be possible to resist the effect and such.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Khefernatra's Gracious Wound Refusal, 3rd lvl necro. immediate spell [3.PF, PEACH

    Quote Originally Posted by Mystra View Post
    This spell might be too good. It heals the caster and does damage. That is two effects for one spell...but then again it's just a 'good' vampire touch'.

    But..woah, you don't want the spell doing awesome untyped damage do you? That is way too powerful.

    Also, why a Will save? How do you figure someone failing a will save and then taking real damage?

    My suggestion: As a White Necromancy spell, this spell steals life force(aka hit points) from the target that attacked you and uses that to heal you. So wound a target by doing damage, then healing(like the effect of Vampire Touch or you create a 'white hole' that sucks away some of their lifeforce.). And that would be a Fort save as it's necromancy. And the fort save makes undead nicely immune to the spell. That also makes the spell damage 'hit point drain' and not untyped, so it would be possible to resist the effect and such.
    I made it a Will save because I was attempting to use the weird rules they've put into Necromancy to good use. For some reason, curses are Necromancy and require Will saves. All curses, even those that afflict the body. I was seeing this as a kind of curse, moving a wound from victim to inflictor (which is why the damage is untyped).

    However, on looking at it again, I realized that it did need to be toned down at least a bit. So I capped it at 15th level and changed it back to the original conception of no effect on a successful Will save. I'm not sure if that actually addresses your concerns, though. Is it still too strong for its level and does it make conceptual sense?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Khefernatra's Gracious Wound Refusal, 3rd lvl necro. immediate spell [3.PF, PEACH

    I'd keep the damage the same type as the initial attack, but as a magical attack it would ignore DR. Though, I can see it being untyped as well since it is necromancy.


    Also, I was looking at the name, I would think something like Reciprocal Wound would be better. Wound Refusal seems to be a way to simply negate the damage.


    How about
    Wound Refusal
    2nd Level
    Immediate
    Make a will save vs DC=Damage Inflicted. If successful ignore the damage received.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Orc in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Toronto, ON
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    Default Re: Khefernatra's Gracious Wound Refusal, 3rd lvl necro. immediate spell [3.PF, PEACH

    The mechanic seems clunky. It would be better to use the mechanics of existing effects, so as to better handle any rules questions. I think it is basically an involuntary share pain effect, good against one attack, cast as a response to that attack. Maybe that would be a good base?

    How do you think it should work against magic missile (multiple sources of damage) or an acid arrow (ongoing damage)? If all damage is redirected, should associated effects still affect the mage? After all, if you don't receive any damage from an attack, should poison etc. still go through?

    I think it should cap at 10th level, since it is 3rd level (like fireball and company) and because the effect of the spell is really 4 hp per level; 2 hp reduction for you and 2 hp damage to the attacker. That's a decent amount for a third level spell. Yeah, vampiric touch is better, but it is a touch spell and only gives temporary hit points. Mind you, VT doesn't allow a save... I still think 20 points redirection is enough; VT is a strong spell. I also don't think the spell should be cast later in the round. It should be an immediate response to an attack. Here's how I would attempt to word the effect:

    Damage done to you by a spell or spell-like effect is turned back upon the original caster. Only hit point damage is redirected. The maximum amount of damage redirected is 2 hp/level, to a maximum of 20 hp at 1oth level. Hit point damage redirected away from you cannot exceed the amount inflicted by the spell. If all damage done to you is redirected, any secondary effects of the damage (poison, stunning, etc.) are simply negated; they are not redirected to the original caster.

    Since it is based on share pain any of your saving throws, energy resistance, etc. would apply- the amount that gets through is what gets redirected. It is not further reduced by the original caster's resistances, etc. - they just get a loss in hit points. If they fail the save, that is.

    edit: I just noticed that this is a PF spell. I was interpreting it from a 3.5 perspective. Hopefully that doesn't make any difference...
    Last edited by Cheiromancer; 2013-05-27 at 03:43 PM.

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