Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 24 of 24
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)


    "You ask me what I know of Dragons? Hah. It'd be quicker to ask me what I don't know."

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special| Invocations Known

    1st| +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Breath Weapon 1d6, Dragontouched, Least Invocations, Draconic Aura +1 | 1

    2nd| +1 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Breath Effect, Scales +2 | 2

    3rd| +1 | +3 | +1 | +3 | Breath Weapon 2d6 | 3

    4th| +2 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Dragonkin, Draconic Feat | 3

    5th| +2 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Breath Weapon 3d6, Breath Effect, Draconic Aura +2| 4

    6th| +3 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Damage Reduction 2/Magic and Slashing, Lesser Invocations | 5

    7th| +3 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Breath Weapon 4d6 | 6

    8th| +4 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Scales +3, Draconic Feat | 7

    9th| +4 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Breath Weapon 5d6 | 8

    10th| +5 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Breath Weapon range doubles, Breath Effect, Draconic Aura +3 | 8

    11th| +5 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Breath Weapon 6d6, Greater Invocations, DR 5/Magic and Slashing | 9

    12th| +6 | +8 | +4 | +8 | Breath Effect, Draconic Feat | 10

    13th| +6 | +8 | +4 | 8 | Scales +4, Breath Weapon 7d6 | 11

    14th| +7 | +9 | +4 | +9 | Energy Immunity, Double Draconic Aura | 12

    15th| +7 | +9 | +5 | +9 | Breath Weapon 8d6, Breath Effect, Draconic Aura +4 | 12

    16th| +8 | +10 | +5 | +10 | DR 10/Magic and Slashing, Dark Invocations, Draconic Feat | 13

    17th| +8 | +10 | +5 | +10 | Breath Weapon 9d6 | 14

    18th| +9 | +11 | +6 | +11 | Scales +5 | 15

    19th| +9 | +11 | +6 | +11 | Immunities, Breath Weapon 10d6 | 15

    20th| +10 | +12 | +6 | +12 | Heart of the Dragon, Breath Effect, Draconic Aura +5 | 16 [/table]

    HD: D8

    Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, x4 at 1st level): Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device.

    Proficiencies: Dragonfire Adepts are proficient with simple weapons, but no armour or shields. Wearing armour incurs Arcane Spell Failure chance when utilising invocations.

    Invocations: A dragonfire adept has a repertoire of attacks, defenses, and other abilities known as draconic invocations, which allow her to focus the draconic energy that suffuses her soul. A dragonfire adept can use any invocation she knows at will.

    A dragonfire adept's invocations are spell-like abilities; using an invocation is therefore a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. To avoid provoking such attacks, a dragonfire adept can use an invocation defensively by making a successful Concentration check. An invocation can be disrupted, just as a spell can be ruined during casting. If a dragonfire adept is hit by an attack while invoking, she is entitled to a Concentration check to successfully use the invocation, just as a spellcaster would be. Her invocations are subject to spell resistance unless an invocation's description specifically states otherwise. A dragonfire adept's caster level with her invocations is equal to her class level. She can dismiss any invocation as a standard action, just as a wizard can dismiss a spell.

    If an invocation allows a saving throw, its DC is 10 + the equivalent spell level + the dragonfire adept's Cha modifier. Since spell-like abilities are not spells, a dragonfire adept cannot benefit from the Spell Focus feat or from draconic feats that let her convert or spend an arcane spell slot to produce some other effect. She can, however, benefit from the Ability Focus featMM p.303, as well as from feats that emulate metamagic effects for spell-like abilities.

    The four grades of draconic invocations, in order of their relative power, are least, lesser, greater, and dark. A 1st-level dragonfire adept begins with knowledge of one least invocation, gaining access to more invocations and higher grades as she attains levels. At any level when a dragonfire adept learns a new invocation, she can also replace an invocation she already knows with another invocation of the same or lower grade. See Draconic Invocations, below, for a list of available invocations.

    Unlike other spell-like abilities, draconic invocations are subject to arcane spell failure chance as described under Weapon and Armor Proficiency, above.

    Finally, just like warlocks (see Complete Arcane), dragonfire adepts can qualify for some prestige classes usually intended for spellcasters.

    Invocations List:
    Least:-
    Spoiler
    Show

    Dragon Magic-
    Aquatic Adaptation: Breathe and use breath weapon underwater; gain swim speed.
    Beguiling Influence: Gain bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks.
    Breath of the Night: Create a fog cloud as the spell.
    Darkness: Create darkness as the spell.
    Deafening Roar: Cone of sound deafens creatures.
    Draconic Knowledge: Gain bonus on Knowledge and Spellcraft checks.
    Endure Exposure: Use endure elements as the spell; target gains immunity to your breath weapon.
    Magic Insight: Detect magical auras; identify magic items.
    Scalding Gust: Use gust of wind as the spell; any creature in area takes fire damage equal to your level.
    See the Unseen: Gain darkvision; gain see invisibility as the spell.

    Complete Arcane-
    Earthen Grasp: Use Earthen Grasp, as the spell.
    Leaps and Bounds: Gain bonus on Balance, Jump and Tumble Checks.
    Miasmic Cloud: Create a cloud of mist that grants concealment and fatigues those who enter.


    Lesser:-
    Spoiler
    Show

    Dragon Magic-
    Charm: Cause a single creature to regard you as a friend.
    Draconic Flight: Sprout wings and fly at good maneuverability; fly longer overland.
    Energy Resistance: Gain resistance 10 to acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage.
    Enthralling Voice: Enthrall nearby creatures.
    Frightful Presence: Make nearby creatures shaken.
    Humanoid Shape: Take the form of any humanoid creature.
    Voidsense: Gain blindsense 30 feet.
    Voracious Dispelling: Use dispel magic as the spell, dealing damage to creatures whose effects are dispelled.
    Walk Unseen: Use invisibility (self only) as the spell.

    Weighty Utterance: Force flying creatures to the ground.

    Complete Arcane-
    Curse of Despair: Curse on creature as Bestow curse spell, or hinder their attacks.
    Flee the Scene: Use Short-range dimension door as the spell, and leave behind a major image
    Wall of Gloom: Use Wall of Gloom as the spell.

    Complete Mage:
    Crawling Eye: Your eye leaves your head and grows spidery legs, enabling it to scout for you.
    Witchwood Step: Walk on water and move through some obstacles unimpeded.


    Greater:-
    Spoiler
    Show

    Dragon Magic-
    Aura of Flame: Aura deals fire damage to creatures that strike you.
    Baleful Geas: A single creature becomes your servant, but slowly sickens and dies.
    Chilling Fog: Create solid fog that deals cold damage.
    Devour Magic: Use targeted greater dispel magic with a touch and gain temporary hit points based on the level of the spell successfully dispelled.
    Draconic Toughness: Gain temporary hit points equal to your level.
    Terrifying Roar: Use fear as the spell; creatures shaken by effect can't attack you.
    Wingstorm: Create powerful gusts of wind with your invocation-granted wings.

    Dragonward: Resistant to Dragon Attacks.

    Complete Arcane-
    Enervating Shadow: Gain total concealment in dark areas and impose a strength penalty on adjacent living creatures.
    Wall of Perilous Flame: Wall of Fire as the spell, but half the damage from the wall results from supernatural power.
    Warlock's Call: Sending as the spell, but risk damage from the recipient.

    Complete Mage-
    Painful Slumber of Ages: Creature falls asleep, takes damage when awakened.


    Dark:-
    Spoiler
    Show

    Dragon Magic-
    Draconic Flight, Greater: Sprout wings and fly at perfect maneuverability; gain overland speed.
    Energy Immunity: Gain immunity to acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage.
    Instill Vulnerability: Make target creature vulnerable to specified energy type.
    Perilous Veil: Use veil as the spell; anyone succeeding on Will save to negate the illusion takes damage.

    Impenetrable Barrier: Conjures a black, opaque Wall of Force as the spell.

    Complete Arcane-
    Dark Foresight: Use Foresight as the spell and communicate telepathically with a close target of the effect.
    Path of Shadow: Use Shadow Walk as the spell and speed up natural healing.
    Word of Changing: Baleful Polymorph as the spell, but effect could become permanent.

    Complete Mage-
    Steal Summoning: Take control of another caster's summoned monster.



    Breath Weapon (Su): At 1st level, you gain a breath weapon that you can use at will as a standard action. Each time you use your breath weapon, you can choose whether it takes the form of a 15-foot cone or a 30-foot line. This breath weapon deals 1d6 points of fire damage; a successful Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 your class level + your Con modifier) halves the damage. As you gain levels, your breath weapon's damage increases, as shown on the table above.

    You are immune to the effect of your own breath weapon (but not to other breath weapons that produce similar effects, even those of other dragonfire adepts).

    At 10th level, your cone-shaped breath weapon's range doubles to 30 feet, and your line-shaped breath weapon's range doubles to 60 feet.

    In addition, Metabreath feats can be applied to a Dragonfire Adepth's breath weapon even though they do not normally qualify. The breath weapon is treated as having a 0 round cooldown as baseline.

    Dragontouched: At 1st level, you gain DragontouchedDMagic p.18 as a bonus feat.

    Draconic Aura (Su): By channelling the powers of dragons, the Dragonfire Adept can project auras away from themselves. You can project auras as a Swift action and they last until cancelled or the Dragonfire Adept is slain/unconscious. Unless otherwise noted, Draconic Auras have a 30' radius and affect all allies - including the Dragonfire Adept - with line of effect to the DFA.

    The aura bonus begins at +1 at 1st level and increases at 5th to +2, 10th to +3, 15th to +4, and 20th to +5. Dragonfire Adepts gain 3 auras at 1st level and gain a new aura at every odd level thereafter. Auras are derived from the Dragon Shaman listPHB2 p.13 and the Draconic Aura feat listDMagic p.87

    Draconic Feats: At 4th level, and every four levels afterwards (8th, 12th, etc.) the Dragonfire Adept gains one [Draconic] feat that she qualifies for. If she already has all the Draconic feats, she can instead choose an additional Breath Effect for which she meets the level prerequisite.

    Scales (Ex): At 2nd level, your skin becomes thick and scaly, granting you a +2 bonus to your natural armor. The scales can be of any color or metallic hue; they are often (but not always) of a draconic hue that matches your outlook and alignment. This bonus improves to +3 at 8th level, to +4 at 13th level, and to +5 at 18th level.

    If you already have a natural armor bonus, use the higher of the two values.

    Breath Effects: At 2nd, 5th, 10th, 12th, 15th, and 20th level, you can select one of the breath effects (see table below) for which you meet the minimum level prerequisite. These breath effects can alter your breath weapon's damage type or area, or apply a condition to targets in place of damage. Each time you use your breath weapon, you can choose to apply any one breath effect that you know. The chosen effect either replaces the normal fire damage dealt by your breath weapon or replaces the standard area of your breath weapon. Some effects can be applied only to a cone-shaped breath weapon, and others only to a line-shaped breath weapon. You can't apply more than one breath effect to your breath weapon unless the effect specifically states otherwise. Also, you can't apply the same breath effect to your breath weapon in two consecutive rounds (though you still can use your normal fire breath weapon every round).

    Spoiler
    Show

    {table=head]Minimum Level|Breath Effect|Benefit[/b]
    2nd|Frost Breath| Cone-shaped, cold damage
    2nd|Lightning Breath| Line-shaped, electricity damage
    2nd|Sickening Breath| Cone-shaped, sickens creatures
    5th|Acid Breath| Acid Damage
    5th|Shaped Breath| Create safe zones in breath weapon area
    5th|Slow Breath| Cone-shaped, slows creatures
    5th|Weakening Breath| Cone-shaped, imposes -6 Strength penalty
    10th|Cloud Breath| Breath weapon takes form of 20' radius cloud
    10th|Enduring Breath| Breath weapon deals damage over 2 rounds
    10th|Sleep Breath| Cone-shaped, puts weak creatures to sleep
    10th|Thunder Breath| Cone-shaped, sonic damage
    15th|Discorporating Breath of Bahamut| Line-shaped deals double damage, disintegrates creatures
    15th|Force Breath| Line-shaped, force damage
    15th|Paralysing Breath| Cone-shaped, paralyses creatures for 1 round
    15th|Fivefold Breath of Tiamat| Breathe five different breath weapons simultaneously.[/table]


    See Dragon Magic p. 77 for full Breath Effects descriptions

    Dragonkin (Ex): At 4th level, you gain a +4 competence bonus on Diplomacy checks made to influence the attitude of dragons or creatures of the dragonblood subtypeDMagic p.4. You are treated as a dragon for the purpose of determining whether frightful presence can affect you.

    Damage Reduction (Ex): At 6th level, the Dragonfire Adept acquires Damage Reduction 2/Magic and Slashing. This increases to 5/Magic and Slashing at 11th and 10 Magic/Slashing at 16th.

    Energy Immunity: The Dragonfire Adept gains immunity to the energy type associated with their Draconic HeritageDMagic p.17, RotD p.102. If they have not picked the Draconic Heritage feat, they gain Fire Immunity.

    In the case of mixed energy types (eg. Pyroclastic - Sonic/Fire) they instead halve all damage from those types rather than gain full immunity to one or both.

    Double Draconic Aura: You gain the Double Draconic Aura featDMagic p.16. If the Dragonfire Adept already has this feat, they can instead choose a Draconic Feat. If they already have all Draconic feats, they can instead choose an additional Breath Effect for which they qualify.

    Immunities (Ex): At 19th level, the Dragonfire Adept gains immunity to Sleep and Paralysis effects, as well as a dragon's Frightful Presence.

    Heart of the Dragon (Ex): At the start of each day, you may select a number of spells, drawn from the Sorcerer list, equal to your charisma modifier. The spells must be sixth level or lower, and cannot have a casting time of more than One Round.

    You may only cast a number of spells equal to half your charisma modifier each day, but it may be any spell that you know in this manner.

    In addition, the Dragonfire Adept no longer accrues physical ability penalties from aging. They still gain any mental ability bonuses and any physical ability penalties they already had remain.

    List of Changes:
    Spoiler
    Show
    -Draconic Feat gained every 4 levels
    -Draconic Aura as Dragon Shaman
    -Breath Weapon now scales at 1d6/2 Levels, except at 19-20.
    -Invocations doubled at every 'rank' level (4 instead of 2)
    -Invocation list expanded to include some from Warlock list from other sources.
    -Energy Immunity+Double Draconic Aura at 14th to fill in for an otherwise empty level
    -DR now at 6th, 11th and 16th (2, 5, 10) rather than 6th and 16th (2, 5). Now Magic and Slashing.
    -DFAs now explicitly qualify for applying Metabreath feats to their breath weapon.
    -Immunity to Frightful Presence added at 19 in addition to paralysis/sleep.
    -New capstone: Heart of the Dragon.


    I put 'fix' in airquotes since the DFA is pretty good at its job already, but the same could be said for Warlocks and there's dozens of fixes for that floating around so...meh :p
    Last edited by Amnestic; 2012-12-23 at 11:37 AM.
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Red Hand of Doom IC | OOC
    Playing:
    Tales of Neutral Ground IC | OOC
    The Madness of Men in a World of Monsters IC | OOC

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Proud Tortoise's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    I might suggest making breath weapon useable every 1d4 rounds.
    white text is the bestest you might want to look for it
    DeviantART

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Hyooz's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Might help to know what you thought was wrong with the DFA to begin with that you're trying to "Fix"

    Current Contest Entries:

    Prestige Class Contest: In the Shadows -The Ghost Wyrm

    Base Class Contest: Altar of Naught - The Nihilist

    Monster Competition: Beings of Legend - The Omni Template

    Spoiler
    Show


  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Midwest, not Middle East
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud Tortoise View Post
    I might suggest making breath weapon useable every 1d4 rounds.
    Why? Warlocks get eldritch blast at will.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sgt. Cookie's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    EDIT: Realised this was unneeded.
    Last edited by Sgt. Cookie; 2012-12-15 at 09:30 PM.
    Open the lid and snatch a homebrewed treat from Cookie's Jar

    Ponytar by Dirtytabs

    Quote Originally Posted by DudeWhyAreAllTheNamesTaken(Imgur)
    Chaotic neutral. Might rob you blind. Might save your life. Might do both.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    Might help to know what you thought was wrong with the DFA to begin with that you're trying to "Fix"
    To take the changes bit-by-bit.

    -Draconic Feat gained every 4 levels

    Mostly a flavour thing as well as allowing a bit more customisation. Draconic Feats are very rarely overpowered so giving them 5 of them over 16 levels (4-20) seemed a natural fit.

    -Draconic Aura as Dragon Shaman

    Gestalting Dragon Shaman and DFA is a common thing to do due to the perceived 'underpoweredness' of both. Rather than go the whole hog, I lifted a few abilities. The auras are to increase their support role which they already fill in most parties.

    -Breath Weapon now scales at 1d6/2 Levels, except at 19-20.

    Breath Weapon scaling suddenly slowed down once you got into the 'teen' levels for some reason and I'm not sure why. I scaled it to 1d6/2 levels to fix that since it didn't seem to make much sense. The extra 1d6 at 20 was to give it something of a capstone though, as I noted, I'd be open to suggestions to remove that and replace it with something a bit more interesting.

    -Invocations doubled at every 'rank' level (4 instead of 2)
    Two invocations per rank is very little and practically forces you to start filling your feats with Extra Invocation if you want to get any real flexibility out of them - Warlocks seem to suffer from this as well. Getting 4/Rank fixes this or at least alleviates the major pains.

    -Invocation list expanded to include some from Warlock list from other sources.

    Infernal Adept is a feat which allows you to do this for one Invocation. While I didn't copy all of the Warlock invocations, I did expand it to represent this.

    -Energy Immunity+Double Draconic Aura at 14th to fill in for an otherwise empty level

    Energy Immunity is once again cribbed from the Dragon Shaman. Double Draconic Aura is a feat which boosts their support role further (and acquired two levels after the feat can be taken).

    -DR now at 6th, 11th and 16th (2, 5, 10) rather than 6th and 16th (2, 5). Now Magic and Slashing.

    DR 5/Magic at level 16? Please. I didn't do a great deal to buff this but making it Magic and Slashing (one of the most common types of weapon at that) seemed like a natural buff.

    -DFAs now explicitly qualify for applying Metabreath feats to their breath weapon.

    DFAs want Metabreath feats. Normally they'd get them via Power Surge (Dragon Mag) or some sneaky tricks with a Dragonborn breath weapon or something similar. Making it baseline qualification cuts this problem out.

    -Immunity to Frightful Presence added at 19 in addition to paralysis/sleep.

    Cribbed from Dragon Shaman again, though they get it a number of levels earlier (I believe it's 14).

    Like I said, Dragonfire Adept isn't exactly a 'weak' class (it's no Fighter!) but Warlocks and DFAs are generally viewed as being on a similar power level, both being invokers, and given the myriad of fixes for that class I thought one for the DFA made sense.
    Last edited by Amnestic; 2012-12-15 at 10:13 PM.
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Red Hand of Doom IC | OOC
    Playing:
    Tales of Neutral Ground IC | OOC
    The Madness of Men in a World of Monsters IC | OOC

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amechra's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Where I live.

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    I'm wondering why you didn't just fold the Breath Effects into the Invocations as an Invocation type...
    Quote Originally Posted by segtrfyhtfgj View Post
    door is a fake exterior wall
    Due to time constraints, I will be away from the forums until early in January. Take care until then.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amechra View Post
    I'm wondering why you didn't just fold the Breath Effects into the Invocations as an Invocation type...
    I considered it, but I liked the separation of breath effects and invocations unlike Warlocks having their Eldritch Blast modifiers and other invocations coming out of one pool. It was a personal preference thing to keep the two separate.

    Also interaction with "Meta-SLA" feats (Quicken, Maximise, etc.) and breath effects was something I didn't want to have to write around. Metabreath feats for breaths, Meta-SLA feats for Invocations. Simpler that way, I think.
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Red Hand of Doom IC | OOC
    Playing:
    Tales of Neutral Ground IC | OOC
    The Madness of Men in a World of Monsters IC | OOC

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Proud Tortoise's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    Why? Warlocks get eldritch blast at will.
    This is not a warlock. In most areas it is more powerful than a warlock. Likewise, breath weapons are not Eldritch Blast, and without any add-ons can hit multiple targets.
    white text is the bestest you might want to look for it
    DeviantART

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Colossus in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    My skills exceed yours!
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud Tortoise View Post
    This is not a warlock. In most areas it is more powerful than a warlock. Likewise, breath weapons are not Eldritch Blast, and without any add-ons can hit multiple targets.
    Yes, but most dragonfire adepts don't have any other options other than their breath weapon, unlike warlocks, who get UMD and many BC invocations.

    All of the dragonfire adept's best invocations are utility or defensive, so the DFA usually wears armor in battle because there's no reason not to (don't use your invocations in battle, don't make skill checks, don't make attack rolls, and the non-proficiency ceases to matter).

    If you were going to remove the breath weapon's at-will power, you would have to give them something to do in the off rounds. And what would that be? Attack with a weapon? When you have poor BAB and simple proficiencies?

    The DFA spams a breath weapon because that's all the DFA can do. You could change the class to give it more options, in which case, you'd definitely drop the breath weapon down to 1d4 rounds, but you can't just change the breath weapon by itself and call it a day.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Proud Tortoise View Post
    This is not a warlock. In most areas it is more powerful than a warlock. Likewise, breath weapons are not Eldritch Blast, and without any add-ons can hit multiple targets.
    Sort of the idea that they're more powerful than base warlocks. Base Warlocks are tier 4 and I was sort of hoping that these changes would give them an unequivocal place among the tier 3 classes. Did it? I dunno. It's certainly closer though.

    Breath effects have a 1 round CD and should you use Metabreath effects you're also garnering round cooldowns on basically your only ability. Adding a 1d4 CD on top of that? Kinda goes in the opposite direction of this "fix"'s concept.
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Red Hand of Doom IC | OOC
    Playing:
    Tales of Neutral Ground IC | OOC
    The Madness of Men in a World of Monsters IC | OOC

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    nonsi's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnestic View Post
    Sort of the idea that they're more powerful than base warlocks. Base Warlocks are tier 4 and I was sort of hoping that these changes would give them an unequivocal place among the tier 3 classes. Did it? I dunno. It's certainly closer though.

    Breath effects have a 1 round CD and should you use Metabreath effects you're also garnering round cooldowns on basically your only ability. Adding a 1d4 CD on top of that? Kinda goes in the opposite direction of this "fix"'s concept.
    Then why not make it mad BAB then ?

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Then why not make it mad BAB then ?
    I assume mad=medium?

    Because giving it a 1d4 round CD and offering Medium BAB in return is not only a poor trade but it's also taking a really bad aspect of the Dragon Shaman and giving it to the DFA who doesn't want or need it. The fix is meant to improve upon problems or issues that - I at least think - it has. Giving it a 1d4 round cooldown on its breath weapon basically does the exact opposite. It's like offering a Sorcerer medium BAB after saying they can only cast a spell every 1d4 rounds.

    Dragonfire Adepts are best in a support/debuff role and their breath weapon is a crucial part of it. They're not meant to be slugging it out in melee (not to mention that medium BAB with no precision damage is pretty poor).
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Red Hand of Doom IC | OOC
    Playing:
    Tales of Neutral Ground IC | OOC
    The Madness of Men in a World of Monsters IC | OOC

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    New capstone - Heart of the Dragon - added. Grants further flexibility, but power level is still likely far behind those rocking 9th level spells/psionic powers.
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Red Hand of Doom IC | OOC
    Playing:
    Tales of Neutral Ground IC | OOC
    The Madness of Men in a World of Monsters IC | OOC

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Sgt. Cookie's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    That, seems a little too powerful. Level 6 spells can net you some very nasty tricks, Wings of Cover, Celerity, Nerveskitter, and since you have unfettered spontaneous access to the Sorcerer list, way too powerful.

    Perhaps change it to this:

    "At the start of each day, you may select a number of spells, drawn from the Sorcerer list, equal to your charisma modifier. The spells must be sixth level or lower, and cannot have a casting time of more than One Round.

    You may only cast a number of spells equal to half your charisma modifier each day, but it may be any spell that you know in this manner."

    Although it restricts what you have each day, it still allows for some freedom without being crazy good.
    Open the lid and snatch a homebrewed treat from Cookie's Jar

    Ponytar by Dirtytabs

    Quote Originally Posted by DudeWhyAreAllTheNamesTaken(Imgur)
    Chaotic neutral. Might rob you blind. Might save your life. Might do both.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2011

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    For metabreath feats, you might specify how the cooldown increase works with the at-will breath weapon. I assume you'd count it as if it had a 0 round cooldown normally.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    That, seems a little too powerful. Level 6 spells can net you some very nasty tricks, Wings of Cover, Celerity, Nerveskitter, and since you have unfettered spontaneous access to the Sorcerer list, way too powerful.

    Perhaps change it to this:

    "At the start of each day, you may select a number of spells, drawn from the Sorcerer list, equal to your charisma modifier. The spells must be sixth level or lower, and cannot have a casting time of more than One Round.

    You may only cast a number of spells equal to half your charisma modifier each day, but it may be any spell that you know in this manner."

    Although it restricts what you have each day, it still allows for some freedom without being crazy good.
    That...sounds reasonable. It still allows a fair amount of flexibility each day but not total flexibility depending on the situation as the previous version did.

    Edit: Though free access to Nerveskitter and Wings of Cover wasn't something I was particularly worried about. DFAs have UMD as baseline and at level 20 if you don't have wands of those, it's because you simply don't want them. Celerity though...yeah, something to consider.

    For metabreath feats, you might specify how the cooldown increase works with the at-will breath weapon. I assume you'd count it as if it had a 0 round cooldown normally.
    I thought that sort of went without saying. Theoretically, therefore, if you apply say...Clinging Breath (+1) and Recover Breath (-1) you could use your breath weapon on the next round as well. Of course, you do blow two feats on such a thing, so I think that's an acceptable option. Regardless, I'll pop it into the description.
    Last edited by Amnestic; 2012-12-23 at 11:41 AM.
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Red Hand of Doom IC | OOC
    Playing:
    Tales of Neutral Ground IC | OOC
    The Madness of Men in a World of Monsters IC | OOC

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2012

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    I think the new class is quite neat!

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lix Lorn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Usaki City, Syona
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    This looks pretty fun. One thing that always bothered me about the Dragonfire Adept as opposed to the Dragon Shaman was the fact that you were restricted to only fire, until you unlocked a later type. With the Shaman, you chose a dragon and started with that.
    I propose a feat.
    Draconic Preference (Draconic)
    Prerequisites: Draconic Heritage, Breath Weapon from Dragonfire Adept
    Benefit: If your draconic ancestor has a breath weapon that deals fire, electricity, acid, or cold damage in a line or a cone, then you replace your standard cone of fire with their breath weapon, and gain the ability to use a cone of fire when you would have learnt the energy type you chose instead.
    Special: If your draconic ancestor has a more complicated breath weapon or replacement ability, and your DM has a lot of patience, you may try to work something out with that instead.
    Normal: Fire good for cavemen. GOOD ENOUGH YOU TOO.

    Oh, related; the breath effects chart doesn't specify whether acid is a line or a cone.
    Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
    Homebrew Signature | NEW Homebrew Collection
    Thanks to all my avatar artists, especially to Paisley for my avatar of Vivian, cowardly cryophoenix.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post

    Oh, related; the breath effects chart doesn't specify whether acid is a line or a cone.
    That's deliberate. I double checked my copy of Dragon Magic to make sure - Acid Breath simply changes the damage type from Fire to Acid. It's one of the few breath effects that can be either line or cone.
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Red Hand of Doom IC | OOC
    Playing:
    Tales of Neutral Ground IC | OOC
    The Madness of Men in a World of Monsters IC | OOC

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lix Lorn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Usaki City, Syona
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Huh. Didn't know that!
    Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
    Homebrew Signature | NEW Homebrew Collection
    Thanks to all my avatar artists, especially to Paisley for my avatar of Vivian, cowardly cryophoenix.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Banned
     
    Answerer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Don't like the change from Con-based to Cha-based. Having a Con-based class was cool.

    Heart of the Dragon's fewer spells/day than spells known is bizarre. You probably have decent Cha due to the above change, but because you know more spells than you can cast, it seems almost more like being a Wizard than being a Sorcerer.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Lix Lorn's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Usaki City, Syona
    Gender
    Male2Female

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    Don't like the change from Con-based to Cha-based. Having a Con-based class was cool.

    Heart of the Dragon's fewer spells/day than spells known is bizarre. You probably have decent Cha due to the above change, but because you know more spells than you can cast, it seems almost more like being a Wizard than being a Sorcerer.
    ...I hadn't noticed that.
    Breath weapons are ALWAYS con. Always.
    Recent Homebrew: The Socialite | The Crystalline: Memory Altering Construct Race | Sanguine Hand, a ToB Discipline of blood and cruelty
    Homebrew Signature | NEW Homebrew Collection
    Thanks to all my avatar artists, especially to Paisley for my avatar of Vivian, cowardly cryophoenix.
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Amnestic's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Castle Sparrowcellar
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Dragonfire Adept 'Fix' (3.5, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    Don't like the change from Con-based to Cha-based. Having a Con-based class was cool.

    Heart of the Dragon's fewer spells/day than spells known is bizarre. You probably have decent Cha due to the above change, but because you know more spells than you can cast, it seems almost more like being a Wizard than being a Sorcerer.
    ...the breath weapon is still Con-based. It always has been and I don't intend to change it. Invocations are Cha-based though (and, again, always has been), so it made sense to tie Heart of the Dragon into Charisma as well.

    Am I missing something? Where's the Cha-based comment tied to breath weapons come from? It's certainly Con on my screen.
    DMing:
    Iron Crisis IC | OOC
    Red Hand of Doom IC | OOC
    Playing:
    Tales of Neutral Ground IC | OOC
    The Madness of Men in a World of Monsters IC | OOC

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •