A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Hey everybody, this class is FAR from finished, and is my own experimentation on splitting the druid into 2 classes, one that gets full spell casting and a 'weakened' animal companin ( i switched the levels that rangers and ruids get theirs) and a class all about the wildshaping, then i realized that I think I should give a wildshaping class a bit more to it that just hey lookit me i r animal time to gnaw your face off!' SO i braisntormed and came upw ith 'nature-ish' Invocations as they are sort of like spells but noticebly weaker but spammable.. SO basically its like the warlock MINUS blasts of the eldritch variety and you toss in some wildshaping. again this class is just in the developemental stages especially the invocations...I posted the definiton of critque that I am used to at the bottom of the page so people understand what I am expecting when I ask for critques.


    Primal
    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Invocations
    1st +0 +2 +1 +1 Illiteracy, Improved Unarmed Strike, Heightened Senses 1
    2nd +1 +3 +1 +1 Wild Shape 2
    3rd +2 +3 +2 +2 Animalistic Capability 2
    4th +3 +4 +2 +2 Feral Instincts 3
    5th +3 +4 +2 +2 Toughened Hide, Enhanced Attacks 3
    6th +4 +5 +3 +3 Healing Factor 4
    7th +5 +5 +3 +3 Wild Fighting, Hybridization 4
    8th +6 +6 +3 +3 Animalistic Capability, Bestial Mind 5
    9th +6 +6 +4 +4 6
    10th +7 +7 +4 +4 Feral Fortitude 6
    11th +8 +7 +4 +4 Scent 7
    12th +9 +8 +5 +5 7
    13th +9 +8 +5 +5 Animalistic Capability, Hybridization 8
    14th +10 +9 +6 +6 8
    15th +11 +9 +6 +6 Immunity to Crits 9
    16th +12 +10 +6 +6 A Thousand Faces 10
    17th +12 +10 +7 +7 10
    18th +13 +11 +7 +7 Animalistic Capability 11
    19th +14 +11 +7 +7 Hybridization 11
    20th +15 +12 +8 +8 Feral Avatar 12
    Alignment: Any
    Hit Die: 1d8

    Class Skills:
    Class Skills
    Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).
    Skill Points at 1st Level: (4+ Int modifier) × 4
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level:4 + Int modifier
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A primal is proficient with daggers, clubs, Sling, Javelin, Spear, Dart, and Maul. ANd is proficient with Leather and Hide armor, but no shields.

    Special Abilities
    Illiteracy Primals do not automatically know how to read and write. A Primal may spend 2 skill points to gain the ability to read and write a language he is able to speak.

    Improved Unarmed Strike At 1st level, a Primal gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.

    Heightened Senses {Ex}: A Primals sense are heightened gaining low-light vision that can see 3 times as far in dim light. Primals also gain a +1 bonus to spot and listen checks, this bonus increases by +1 every 5th level.

    Invocation {Sp}:
    Due to the eldritch power of nature that flows through his veins, the Primal does not prepare or cast spells as other wielders of magic do. Instead, he possesses a repertoire of attacks, defenses, and abilities known as invocations that require him to focus the wild natural energies that suffuses his soul. The Primal can use any invocations he knows at-will, with the following qualifications:

    The Primal's invocations are spell-like abilities; using an invocation is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity unless otherwise indicated in it’s description. An invocation can be disrupted, just as a spell can be ruined during casting. The Primal is entitled to a Concentration check to successfully use an invocation if he is hit by an attack while invoking, just as a spellcaster would be. an Eldritch can choose to use an invocation defensively, by making a successful Concentration check, to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity. The Primal's invocations are subject to spell resistance unless an invocation’s description specifically states otherwise. The Primal's caster level with his invocations is equal to his Primal level. The Primal may dismiss an invocation as a standard action, just as a wizard can dismiss a spell.

    The save DC for an invocation (if it allows a save) is equal to 10 + the equivalent spell level of the invocation + the Primal ’s Charisma modifier. Since spell-like abilities are not actually spells, the Primal cannot benefit from any metamagic feat or the Spell Focus feat. He can, however, benefit from the Ability Focus feat and any other feat that affects spell-like abilities. Unlike other spell-like abilities, invocations are subject to arcane spell failure.

    The four grades of invocations, in order of their relative power, are least, lesser, greater and primal. The Primal begins play with knowledge of one least-grade invocation. As the Primal gains levels, he learns new invocations, as shown on the table above. At any level when the Primallearns a new invocation, he may also replace an invocation he already knows with another invocation of the same grade or lower. At 6th level, the Primal gains access to lesser invocations; at 11th level, the Primal gains access to greater invocations and at 16th level the Primal gains access to true invocations.


    Wild Shape {Su}: At 2nd level, a Primal gains the ability to turn himself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. His options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per Primal level, or until he changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night.

    Any gear worn or carried by the Primal melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. When the Primal reverts to his true form, any objects previously melded into the new form reappear in the same location on his body that they previously occupied and are once again functional. Any new items worn in the assumed form fall off and land at the Primal's feet.

    The form chosen must be that of an animal the Primal is familiar with. With a Maximum of 2 animals per rank of Knowledge: Nature

    A Primal loses his ability to speak while in animal form because he is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but he can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as his new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.)

    A Primal can use this ability one more time per day at 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, and 17th and 20th level In addition, he gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, a Tiny animal at 11th level, and a Huge animal at 15th level.

    The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s Primal level.

    At 7th level, a Primal becomes able to use wild shape to change into a plant creature with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A Primal can’t use this ability to take the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.)

    At 12th level, a Primal becomes able to use Wild Shape to Chnage into a Vermin of small or Meduim size. At 17th level a Primal gains the ability to Wildshape into Large or Tiny Vermin.

    At 16th level, a Primal becomes able to use wild shape to change into a Small, Medium, or Large elemental (air, earth, fire, or water) once per day. These elemental forms are in addition to her normal wild shape usage. In addition to the normal effects of wild shape, the Primal gains all the elemental’s extraordinary, supernatural, and spell-like abilities. She also gains the elemental’s feats for as long as she maintains the wild shape, but she retains her own creature type.

    At 18th level, a Primal becomes able to assume elemental form twice per day, and at 20th level she can do so three times per day. At 20th level, a Primal may use this wild shape ability to change into a Huge elemental.

    Animalistic Capability {Ex}: At 3rd level ang again every 5th level afterwards a Primal may select a bonus feat from the following selection.
    Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Blind-Fight, Endurance, Great Fortitude, Improved Overrun, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Run, Stealthy

    Feral Instincts {Ex}:A Primal gets a +2 bonus to Initiative at 4th level, this increases by 1 every 4th level afterwards, a Primal also gets this bonus to Survival checks. In addition as long as the Primal is not denied his dexterity bonus, he gains a +2 bonus to Reflex Saves.

    Toughened Hide {Ex}: A Primal's natural AC in both wild-shaped and natural forms increases by1 every 5th level.

    Enhanced Attacks {Su}: At 5th level a Primal's unarmed attacks and natural attacks whilst wildshaped are empowered. They are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 11th level they are also treated as Silver and Cold-iron , while at 17th Adamantite. These stack, so a 17th level Primal's unarmed and natural attacks are considered magic, silver, cold-iron, and adamantite.

    Healing Factor {Ex}: At 6th level a Primal gains Fast Healing equal to his base (un-wildshaped) Con modifier.

    Wild Fighting {Ex}: At 7th level a Primal using the full-attack action can make one extra attack per round at his highest base attack bonus. Until the beginning of his next turn, however, she takes a –2 penalty on attack rolls and –4 penalty to AC.

    Hybridization {Ex}: A Primal can at 7th level assume an Extraordinary ability form a wildshape form he knowns and apply it to another. A primal can assume an additional ability at 13th and 19th levels. For example a 12th level Primal can while in Wild shape as a Tiger take a spider's ability to shoot webbing and at 13th level he can gain a spiders Tremor sense and finally at 19th the spider's poison. The Pirmal need not take all extraordinary abilities from the same animal. In the above example the 19th level Primal wildshaped as a tiger can take the tremor sense and poison abilities of the spider and instead of the ability to shoot webbing take the weasle's ability to attach or the earth elemental's ability to earth glide.

    Bestial Mind {Ex}: At 8th level a Primal gets a +4 bonus to Will Saves vs Charm or Compulsion effects.

    Feral Fortitude {Ex}: At 9th level a Primal gains a bonus on saving throws against disease, exhaustion, fatigue, fear, and poison, Equal to His Charisma Modifier. He also recovers from ability damage, exhaustion, and fatigue at twice the normal rate.

    Scent {Ex}: At 11th level the Primal gains the Scent ability

    Immunity to Crits At 15th level a Primal is immune to critical hits and takes half damage from precision based attacks, such as Sneak Attack.

    A Thousand Faces {Su}: At 16th level, a Primal gains the ability to change his appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell, but only while in his normal form. This affects the Primal’s body but not his possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the Primal’s appearance, within the limits described for the spell.

    Feral Avatar {Ex}: A Primal's Wildshape becomes much more potent. A Primal may now wildshape as a move action, and during the wildshape duration may change his form multiple times during the duration, equal to 1+ his Charisma Modifier, and only the first transformation heals the Primal. If the Primal changes into its natural form, the use of wild shape ends.

    Invocation


    Least
    Beast claws (2nd) You call forth the aggressive nature of the beast inherent in yourself transforming your hands into deadly claws. You gain two natural attacks with your claws, each dealing 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if you are Large, or 1d3 if you are Small) plus your Strength bonus. Your claws work just like the natural weapons of many monsters. You can make an attack with one claw or a full attack with two claws at your normal attack bonus, replacing your normal attack routine. You take no penalties for two-weapon fighting, and neither attack is a secondary attack. If used while Wildshaped you claw damage dice goes up one step. Last 1 minute per level.
    Thicket's Mist (1st) A misty cloud of fog spreads in a 20-foot radius around you when you use this invocation, as the spell fog cloud. The fog does not block line of sight, but all creatures in the fog have concealment. A moderate wind or any fire larger than a torch immediately disperses the fog. The fog disperses on its own after 1 minute.
    Burning Gaze (2nd) This Invocation allows you to make a range touch attack to deal 1d6 fire damage plus an addition 1d6 fire damage for every 3rd Primal level. Cannot be used while wildshaped.
    Burst of Speed (1st) This Invocation increases your land speed by 10 feet for 1 round per level.
    Call of the Beast (2nd) You gain a rapport with the beasts of the world. You gain the wild empathy ability as a druid of your Primal level and can communicate with animals as if under the effect of speak with animals.
    This invocation lasts for 1 hour per level..
    Catfall (1st) You recover instantly from a fall and can absorb some damage from falling. You land on your feet no matter how far you fall, and you take damage as if the fall were 10 feet shorter than it actually is. At 7th level you take damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter, and at 14th as it it was 30 feet shorter. The use of this Invocation is an immeditate action.
    Chameleon (2nd) Your skin and equipment take on the color and texture of nearby objects, including floors and walls. You receive a +10 competance bonus on Hide checks. In addition this ability allows the Primal to Hide without the need for cover or concealment or even if being observed. This invocation last 1 minute per level.
    Earthen Grasp (2nd) As the spell Earthern Grasp
    Envenom (2nd) If you have a claw attack (either from an actual natural weapon or from an effect such as the Beast Claws Invocation), you can use this power to produce a mild venom that coats your claws. The poison deals 1d6 poison damage plus an additional 1d6 damage for every 4th level. This Invocation lasts 2 rounds per level. A successful Fortitude negates the damage.
    Entangle (1st) As the spell Entangle
    Growth/shrink (1st) This Invocation allows the Primal to enlarge or reduce himself as per enlarge person and reduce person. Except this Invocation only last 1 round per level.
    Gust of Wind (2nd) As the spell Gust of Wind
    Jump (1st) As the spell Jump
    Stomp (2nd) This Invocation creates a shock wave in a 15 foot radius that travels along the ground, toppling creatures and loose objects. The shock wave affects only creatures standing on the ground within the power’s area, and deals 3d4 plus 1 per level damage. A successful Reflex save halves the damage. Creatures that fail their saves are thrown to the ground, and become prone. This Invocation can only be used while wildshaped.
    Turtle Shell (2nd) The Primal gains DR 2/- for 1 round for every 2 levels. The damage reduction increases by 1 every 5th level.
    Vigor (2nd) This invocation grants the Primal 5 temporary HP, increasing to 10 at 6th, 15 at 12th and finally 20 and 18th level. These temporary HP last 1 minute.
    Web (2nd) As the spell Web
    Wolf's Bite (2nd) You gain one bite attack each round, instead of or in addition to any other attacks you have, that deals 1d8 damage (1d6 if you are small, or 2d6 if you are large) plus one and one half your Strength bonus. Your bite attack is a natural weapon, if you bite in addition to making other attacks, the bite is a secondary attack. If used while Wildshaped your bite damage dice goes up one step. Last 1 minute per level.

    Lesser
    Animal Affinity (2st) As the spell Charm Animal, but affects 1 target plus an additional target for every 4th level. This Invocation lasts 10 minutes per level.
    Animate Elemental (2nd) As the spell Animate Fire, but any of the 4 elements
    Blinding Spittle (2nd) As the spell Blinding Spittle
    Body Repair (3rd) This Invocation allows the Primal to heal himself for 1d6 plus 1 per every 2nd level. Alternatively This can be used as a Remove Disease, or Remove Blindness/Deafness. Unlike other Invocations this one requires a full round and the Primal is flat footed while doing so.
    Energy Adaptation (3rd) This Invocations grants resistance 15 against any attack of whichever one of five energy types you select that deals acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage. This invocation lasts 2 rounds per level.
    Feral Fury (3rd) As the spell Rage, though lasting 1 round per level.
    Meld With Stone (3rd) As the spell Meld With Stone
    Nature's Favor (2nd)As the spell Nature's Favor, except that Primal can cast this spell on any ally and lasts 1 round per level.
    Predator's Roar (4th) This invocation deals 5d6 sonic damage plus 1 per level in a 10 foot radius. A Successful Fort saves halves the damage, those failing the save are Shaken for 3 rounds.
    Speak With Plants (3rd) As the spell Speak With Plants
    Stony Grasp (3rd) As the spell Stony Grasp
    Wall Climb (3rd) This Invocation allows you to walk on vertical surfaces or even traverse ceilings (you need not make Climb checks to traverse these surfaces). Because of the need to keep at least one foot in contact with the wall or ceiling at all times, you cannot jump or use the run action, and you can move at only half speed.
    You retain your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, if any, and opponents gain no special bonuses against you. This Invocation lasts 1 minute per level.
    Whispering Wind (2nd) As the spell Whispering Wind
    Wind Wall (3rd) As the spell Wind Wall

    Greater
    Calm Nature (4th) As Calm Animal but works on magical beasts as Fey in addition to animals, as like dire animals ,Magical Beasts and Fey are allowed a saving throw.
    Command Plants (4th) As the spell Command Plants
    Exhalation of Dragons (5th) With this Invocation you chose 1 energy type amonst your choices of Acid, Fire, Cold or Lightning. You breathe the selected energy type in a 15 foot cone dealing 6d6 damage. A Primal may not use this invocation or Dragon's Breath for 5 rounds after use.

    Freedom of Movement (4th) as the spell Freedom of Movement, but only lasting 2 rounds per level.
    Feral Instinct (4th) With this Invocation you become aware of the presence of any creatures with hostile intent within 30 feet of you, and their direction from you (but not their specific location). Feral Instinct detects active aggression, as opposed to vigilance. In addition, while this Invocation is active you cannot be surprised or caught flat-footed by creatures.
    While under the effect of this power, you can make Sense Motive checks as a free action against anyone within 30 feet of you. This Invocation lasts1 minute per level.
    Greater Energy Adaptation (5th) This invocation grants resistance 35 against any attack of whichever one of five energy types you select that deals acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage. This invocation lasts 2 rounds per level. THis Invocation overwrites Energy Adaptation.
    Heightened Vision (4th) With this Invocation you have a 360-degree sphere of sight, allowing you a perfect view of creatures that might otherwise flank you. Thus, flanking opponents gain no bonus on their attack rolls, and rogues are denied their sneak attack ability while flanking (but they may still sneak attack you if you are denied your Dexterity bonus). Your Spot and Search checks gain a +6 enhancement bonus. This Invocation lasts 1 minute per level.
    Roots of the Mountain (5th) With this Invocation are almost impossible to move. You gain a +4 enhancment bonus to your Strength as well as Constitution. You may not move more than 10 fett per round while under the effects of this Invocation. In addition you gain a +6 bonus to opposed Trip, Bullrush, and Overrun attempts, as well as a +4 bonus to any spell, effect, or ability that would casue you to go prone, or knock you back. This Invocation lasts 1 minutes per level.
    Predatory Prowess This Invocation grants you an additional attack on a target when making an attack of opportunity, though at -5 penalty. In addition as long as this Invocation is active you deal an additional 3d4 points of damage to targets that are denied theri dexterity bonus. Creatures immune to sneak attacks and crits are immune to this extra damage. This invocation lasts 3 rounds per level.
    Stone Shape (5th) As the spell Stone Shape
    Stone Tell (6th) As the spell Stone tell
    Venom (4th) If you have a claw or Bite attack (either from an actual natural weapon or from an effect such as the Beast Claws or Wolf's Bite Invocations), you can use this power to produce a mild venom that coats your claws and bite. The poison deals 1d6 poison damage plus an additional 1d6 damage for every 3rd level. This Invocation lasts 2 rounds per level. A successful Fortitude negates the damage.
    Wall of Fire (4th) As the spell Wall of Fire
    Wall of Ice (4th As the spell Wall of Ice
    Wall of Stone (5th) As the spell Wall of Stone
    Wall of Thorns (5th) As the spell Wall of Thorns

    Primal
    Adaptation (6th) This Invocation allows your body automatically adapts to hostile environments. You can adapt to underwater, extremely hot, extremely cold, or airless environments, allowing you to survive as if you were a creature native to that environment. You can breathe and move (though penalties to movement and attacks, if any for a particular environment, remain), and you take no damage simply from being in that environment. You need not specify what environment you are adapting to when you manifest this power; simply activate it, and your body will instantly adapt to any hostile environment as needed throughout the duration. You can somewhat adapt to extreme environmental features such as acid, lava, fire, and electricity. Any environmental feature that normally directly deals 1 or more dice of damage per round deals you 1 point less of damage. This invocation lasts 2 minutes per level.
    Control Weather (7th) As the spell Control Weather
    Dragon's Breath (6th) With this Invocation you chose 1 energy type amonst your choices of Acid, Fire, Cold or Lightning. You breathe the selected energy type in a 20 foot cone dealing 10d6 damage. A Primal may not use this invocation or Exhalation of Dragons for 5 rounds after use.
    Hibernation (6th)This Invocation puts you into a trance so deep that you are almost in suspended animation. Even effects that detect life are incapable of determining that you are alive.
    While you are in Hibernation, you are aware of your surroundings. You feel the passage of one day for every year that actually passes. Though on a slower schedule, you grow hungry after a “day” without food (though a year passes in actuality) and begin to suffer the effects of thirst and starvation as appropriate.
    If you take any damage, you come out of your trance 4 rounds later.The trance can also be ended by a successful use of any dispel magic effect. If you choose to dismiss the Invocation, your trance ends 10 rounds later.
    Live Oak (6th) As the spell Live Oak except the duration is only 1 hour a level.
    Oak Body (7th) This Invocation transforms your body into living oak, which grants you several advantages. You gain damage reduction 10/slashing and a +5 bonus to any natural armor bonus you may already have. You are immune to ability damage, blindness, deafness, disease, drowning, poison, stunning, and all powers, spells, or attacks that affect your physiology or respiration, because you have no physiology or respiration while this power is in effect. Though Spell, effects and abilities that target plants effect you as normal.
    You take only half damage from cold effects of all kinds. However, you become susceptible to all special attacks that affect wood, and you gain vulnerability to fire.
    You gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength, but you take a -2 penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum Dexterity score of 1), and your speed is reduced to half normal. You can speak but cannot drink (and thus can’t use potions) or play instruments. You have an armor check penalty of -4.
    Your unarmed attacks deal 4d6 plus 1 and 1/2 times your strenght modifier damage and you are considered armed when making unarmed attacks. When you make a full attack against an object or structure using your unarmed strike, you deal double damage.
    Move Earth (6th) As the spell Move Earth
    Sky Master (6th) With this Invocation you are born aloft, at home among the clouds. You gain a fly speed equal to your land speed + 30 feet with perfect maneuverability. While this Invocation is active you are considered to have both the Flyby Attack and Improved Flyby Attack feats, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites. This Invocation lasts 1 hour per level.


    What I mean when I say Critque in my header...
    Spoiler
    Show
    cri·tique
    [kri-teek] noun, verb, cri·tiqued, cri·ti·quing.
    noun
    1. an article or essay criticizing a literary or other work; detailed evaluation; review.

    2. a criticism or critical comment on some problem, subject, etc.

    3. the art or practice of criticism.

    verb (used with object)
    4. to review or analyze critically.
    Last edited by ngilop; 2014-05-20 at 09:32 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

    Join Date
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    Elemental Plane of Purple
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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    If all you get at first level is Illiteracy (which is a penalty and it's not true that the primal is the ONLY class to have this. See Barbarian) and 1 invocation, why would anyone take this class? It is even worse than a warlock. At least the 1st level warlock gets eldriitch blast. I stopped reading at that point. Sorry.

    Debby
    P.E.A.C.H. Please Evaluate And Critique Honestly. Being nicer and kinder doesn't hurt either. Note I generally only critique 3.5 and Pathfinder material.
    Please, please, please when using non-core material, cite to the books. There are too many books to wade through to find the one with the feat, special ability or spell you use.
    my creations in homebrew signature thread

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    If all you get at first level is Illiteracy (which is a penalty and it's not true that the primal is the ONLY class to have this. See Barbarian) and 1 invocation, why would anyone take this class? It is even worse than a warlock. At least the 1st level warlock gets eldriitch blast. I stopped reading at that point. Sorry.

    Debby
    They do get Wild Shape Three levels before a Druid.

    Which I guess makes up for some of that.

    They also have Fast Healing equal to their Con Mod, which is, unlike Warlocks, active constantly.

    Needs Moar Capstone.

    Preferably something unique to them.


    Most of the Invocations seem self-buffish, but useful.

    I don't see how a duration measured in rounds will affect them, if it's at will.

    Except to force them to take actions to preserve it in combat.
    On a quest to marry Asmodeus, lord of the Nine Hells, or die trying.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Banned
     
    Devil

    Join Date
    Nov 2012

    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Dwarf Primals (and other +Con) seem to be very good; +3 by 4th Level, throw in basic Bears Endurance Enhancement bonus, and Con 18 Base and you are looking at Fast Healing 6-7, combined with Heals for resting for each Wild Shape.

    Anything higher than that and there is really no reason to take more levels in it; possibly level 8 for Large Animal 3/day, 5 Invocations 2Feats and a Bonus to resist Compulsion.

    Like other have said; there really needs to be a reason to advance in the class.

    Might be worth making a "Primal" or "Dire" Template, that you can apply to animals you wild shape into autatically (perhaps 5th level). Alternatively, have a look at some of the abilities which augment summons, and include them as a class feature. Ie; Augment summon; +4 to Summoned Str /Con IIRC; becomes 4th level class ability say.

    Or perhaps allow Animals you can normally Wild Shape into to have their Dire version Size ignored.

    For example; an elephant (huge?) is available at 15th; normally a Dire Elephant (Gargantuan) is unavailable; but with the suggested version, a Dire Elephant is available to morph into at 15th Level. However you would still need to be familiar with a Dire Dumbo, and it would still count against your allowance; as well as being fairly intrusive, even amidst a group of War Elephants ridden into battle by Token Indian Faction #79

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Debi, I enjoy your homebrew and will point you to the bottom of my original post, where I give the definition of critque, so that people that read this class actually critique instead of just saying 'lulz you suck no more reading lololubad' Did not really expect that from you to be honest, alwasy thought you were a nice lady.

    The class is not finished and I could have sworn that i put that in my opening paragraph somehwere.. I do not use the Barbarian in my games, so for me te PRimal is the only illiterate class in the game.
    The class is severly unfinished, as evidenced by the fact that I only have least invocations done, thanks for destroying my hope that there are nice people left in the world.

    Zale, I cannot think of a good capstone, which I do belive this class really needs. Yes most of the invocations are self buffs and so far extremely animal flavored.. any ideas on getting some elemental and maybe even plant flavored Invocations? well excpet for entablge cuz I just thought fo that! woo go me!

    I am going to have to re-word healing factor becuase i do not want people having fast healing 14 at 5th level (yes slight exaggeration) so maybe put down 'base' Con modifier.

    Vaz, I like the idea of a new template to add onto animals.. I'll try to create one that is semi decent :) any thought for you on what a good capstone would be?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GreenSorcererElf

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    They do have some dead levels.

    You could create some Animal Totems or something similar, to allow them to choose one and gains some gimmicks and extra invocations based on them.

    For example, pick Spider and you get a Web-Derived Invocation and the (Ex) ability to cling to walls like a spider.

    It would also add some variety, which is always nice.
    On a quest to marry Asmodeus, lord of the Nine Hells, or die trying.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PirateGirl

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    First, I did give a critique and I didn't say it sucked. I said it was worse than the warlock because the warlock had a benefit (eldritch blast) while the primal had a penalty (illiteracy) at first level. That is a problem because there should be something that makes the class attractive at the beginning.

    I had stopped reading it at that point and I apologized. So, no, I was neither mean nor rude, but I was abrupt.

    Furthermore, when I told you that the Barbarian was also illiterate, your response was "well I don't use them." The barbarian is a core class. You should be aware of core material even if you don't use it in your own campaign. Don't give me house rules and then expect me to be a mind reader. If the primal is the only illiterate in your world then say so. Don't make it look like a mistake. That is one of my major pet peeves. Saying, "Oh, it's not a mistake, I meant to do that" is not fair to people critiquing your stuff. It also make me leery of what other rules you use that aren't core. If you use a non-standard rule say so up front. [See this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=12]

    Would you consider giving the Primal track or giving them a proficiency with weapons animals can use. For example, metal spurs that could be used on bird claws.

    Multiattack and Improved Multiattack are feats you could use animal form. You might want to consider adding those to the list of feats.

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    It seems like for the majority of the time, playing this class is kinda unfulfilling. You have quite a few dead levels, as Zale said. If I'm playing a Primal from level 1, when I go from 6 to 7 I'd get +1 BAB... and nothing else. Try adding some more unique class abilities to keep out dead levels.

    Also, just to nitpick, it's kind of confusing to have a Primal (class) using Primals (type of invocation).
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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Ok added in a bunch of new mostly elemental and nature related Invocations, I had an additinal ability planned for 1st level. but i forgot what it was... while writing all the new invocations down..

    If you can think of a term other than Primal for teh most powerful type of Invocation please by all measn let me knowm becuase I am coming up blank. I was thinking of going with Primordial at first but then that bring sinto mind far realm and abberation related oddities...

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Have a loom at Feats and abilities which modify Summon Spells, and have them as an Ex Ability tonaffect any Wildshaped option.

    For example;

    Augment Summon; Augment Wildshape; Any Creature you Wildshape into gains a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength amd Constition while Wildshaped.

    Others could be simply "Aligned Wildshape"; Choose one of your alignments. Any creature you wildshape into automatically gains a template in accordance with that alignment; Good = Celestial, Evil = Fiendish, Lawful = Axiomatic, Chaotic = Anarchic. If you are neutral, you must choose which axis you wish to be able to choose the template from; either lawful/chaotic or good/evil. Once the axis is chosen, it may not be changed. However a neutral character may choose which alignment (if any) and its corresponding template to automatically apply each time it wildshapes- eg a Neutral Primal selects his Good/Evil Axis; doing so means each time he Wildshapes, he can choose to apply either the Celestial, the Fiendish, or no template at all to his Wildshaped forms. Note that the DM may specify that continual use of a particular Template (or even just the first time a Template is chosen) influences the Primal in such a way that they permanently change their alignment. In the above example, should the Primal continually use the Fiendish Template, the. they become Neutral Evil, and as such, must apply the Fiendish Template every time they Wildshape.

    Greater Aligned Wildshape; As per Aligned Wildshape, but instead chooses the second axis; in the Example given above, the Primal had initially chosen the Good/Evil axis; now it gains a template based on its Lawful/Chaotic Axis. The order in which the axis' were chosen is important; the first axis chosen is the first template applied; then immediately after by the second; in this case, the Neutral Primal had chosen the Fiendish Template (becoming Evil), and now
    chose the Axiomatic Template (becoming Lawful in the process). The order in which the Templates are applied to the Wildshaped form are always in this order and cannot be changed.

    Neutral Aligned Wild Shape; Alternate Class Feature, requires Neutral Neutral Alignment; lose Aligned Wild Shape and Greater Aligned Wildshape; Choose one Template which does not alter your type to anything other than Magical Beast (Templates which do not alter your Type are also allowed). Each time you wildshape, apply this template. A template may not be selected if it changes your alignment, requires the inclusion of another creature/plant, or has a Level Adjustment of +3 or greater. If a Level Adjustment is not listed for a Template, it also may not be taken.

    Titanic/Shrunken Wildshape; A Primal may choose to apply either the Titanic or Shrunken Templates to any Wildshaped form (Shrunken reduces you to Tiny, Titanic increases to Gargantuan; needs some clarifications to make them available for larger animals; and you need to make a "Shrunken" Template.) at the expense of reducing your time Wildshaped as the creature into 10 minutes/class level. (Tiny T-Rex/Gagantuan Field Vole)

    Wild Armour; Any armour worn by the Primal gains the "Wild" ability for free.

    Wild Weapons; Weapons wielded by the primal are subsumed into their shape. A scimitar wielded may appear as slightly curved claws, while a Scythe may come up as a Velociraptor Sickle Claw, Clubs may give thick knobbly contusions on the skin and nuckles, while a Bow or Crossbow and Quiver full of Arrows nor Quarrels may appear as a forest of Quills like a Porcupine. This allows a Weapon to be wielded as if it were used by a humanoid despite apparently being a natural weapon. Only attacks made by the analogous "weapons" use the rules of the Wildshaped Weapon; eg a Primal with a pair of Kukri, one with Flaming and one with Frost enchantments wielded respectively in his left and right hands chooses to Wild Shape into a Dire Bear; this means the bears left paw attack deals damage as a claw, but uses the enchantment inherent with the Kukri; ie Flaming; his right paw as a Frost and his Jaw as a Standard Bite attack. If said Primal was using a Greatsword in both hands with the Flaming and Frost rules, both claws would have the Flaming and Frost special rules, but not his bite attack. If said Primal was using a Club with Flaming he may choose to deal Bludgeoning Damage or Slashing; whichever it chooses, it is still Flaming. If said Primal was using a Longbow, then the Longbow may be fired as a quill out of his back, even if said Dire Bears don't normally have quills.

    Hybridisation; A Primal may allow traits from other creatures he has knowledge of enough to Wildshape into to manifest themselves as an almost Hybrid Lycanthrope. Hybridisation allows a Primal to expend a use of his Wildshape ability to maintain the Lycanthrope template, but always using the Hybrid Form, and with exceptions; have a run through the Lycanthrope template as a Hybrid, and pick out how to allow a Wildshaped Tiger "hybridise" with a T-Rex, say. Allow Veggie animals to be included, along with Vermin etc. Imagine a Hybrid Tiger Spider, for example.

    Capstone Ability; Wildshape becomes 1/round as a Move Equiv as many times a
    day as she wishes. All time limits as a Wildshape ability are removed; so Wildshape is no longer Hours/Class Level, and Hybridisation is no longer say 1 minute a class level...

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    THAT IS AN AWESOME IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    the whole hybridization!

    LOL tigers that can spitacid and have a poisonous stigner..

    if youve ever played impossible creatures that is bascially all it does, and make me feel dumb for not thinking of that...

    the changing shape as a mocve action during teh duration of the initail wildshape is good, but Id like maybe something a bit more.. flora/fauna/elemental esque in nature.

    if anybody else has an idea half as good as yours have been well I think we have a winner

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    Quote Originally Posted by Debihuman View Post
    First, I did give a critique and I didn't say it sucked. I said it was worse than the warlock because the warlock had a benefit (eldritch blast) while the primal had a penalty (illiteracy) at first level. That is a problem because there should be something that makes the class attractive at the beginning.

    I had stopped reading it at that point and I apologized. So, no, I was neither mean nor rude, but I was abrupt.

    Furthermore, when I told you that the Barbarian was also illiterate, your response was "well I don't use them." The barbarian is a core class. You should be aware of core material even if you don't use it in your own campaign. Don't give me house rules and then expect me to be a mind reader. If the primal is the only illiterate in your world then say so. Don't make it look like a mistake. That is one of my major pet peeves. Saying, "Oh, it's not a mistake, I meant to do that" is not fair to people critiquing your stuff. It also make me leery of what other rules you use that aren't core. If you use a non-standard rule say so up front. [See this: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=12]

    Would you consider giving the Primal track or giving them a proficiency with weapons animals can use. For example, metal spurs that could be used on bird claws.

    Multiattack and Improved Multiattack are feats you could use animal form. You might want to consider adding those to the list of feats.

    Debby
    Quote Originally Posted by debihuman about her top 3 Underlined for emphasis.
    3. Kindness and Compassion. I've read some pretty harsh criticisms here. I'm surprised newbies aren't terrified to post their stuff. Really, be nicer. If you don't like something it's fine to say you don't like it. You don't have to call it crap and stomp on it. If you don't like something, the appropriate response is to explain why you don't like it and then to show how to fix it. Anything else is unhelpful and potentially mean spirited.
    It would have been wonderful if you had done this in your first post.

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    If this class is supposed to be all about the Wildshaping, then why doesn't it get Wildshape at first level? It seems like that's a very important feature, and no one likes running around even for a single level with nothing to do.
    It seems like you want people to run around like a monk for one level, then start changing into animals and never do anything like that again.

    You don't list weapons and armor proficiencies; if the are not proficient with any weapons or armor then say that.

    You say that at levels 5, 8, 11, etc you get to use your Wildshape "more times per day" but you don't say exactly how many. Are we to assume it's exactly once more every three levels?
    This seems to be pretty much like the standard Wildshape ability, with all the associated problems and benefits; you'll still overshadow all the other non-spellcasters with your ability to soak damage, burst through doors, scale walls, fly, swim, breathe underwater, fight dinosaurs, brew cappuccino, etc, etc, etc...
    At higher levels monster hit-dice tend to outpace CR, so more and more new animals will be out of your reach until you are past the point where the CR they bring to the table fits the encounter, though I suppose being able to change into an elemental counteracts this somewhat.

    What stat, if any, is the save DC for the invocations based on?
    Since you can shapeshift, most physical abilitys scores matter little, and since you're not casting spells mental ability scores aren't much better, except Intellect for skill points maybe. It seems like every build will dump everything except for Con to boost fast healing. Since none of the standard social skills are class skills, stacking Charisma for 19 levels just to benefit Feral Avatar seems like kind of a waste, too.

    The hybridization feature would be a fun toy, but why for goodness sake do we need to suffer through the first 18 levels to get to it? I'm always a little uncomfortable with such open-ended content because it varies between balanced and underpowered depending on how much thought the player puts into it, until some one discovers a formerly unknown splatbook that opens up a weird combination the designers never intended, and every encounter suddenly becomes cakewalk.
    I would put in a little more effort and list out what can and can't be coppied (such as movement types or racial skills), and add a caveat that anything else is subject to DM approval.


    To summarize, you took the druid, gave them Wildshape a little earlier, and swapped most of the non-healing spells to invocations.
    Depending on what invocations you choose, I think the class will vary between Tiers 2 and 3.
    Overall, not exactly a huge difference from the standard druid. If it fits in your campaign then fine, but my honest opinion this isn't interesting or powerful enough to bother with the change.

    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    Debi,The class is not finished and I could have sworn that i put that in my opening paragraph somehwere...
    If you post unfinished material and ask for feedback what exactly do you expect? We offer comments of criticisms on what we can see not "oh, I assume that everything that isn't posted will be fair and balanced".

    When I want a critique on a post I make sure it's at least 90% done, and if I'm asking for ideas on unfinished or recently brainstormed proposals then I invite people to give me any and all criticism, so if I'm on the wildly wrong track they'll tell me and I won't waste any more time.

    One of my pet peeves is when people ask for feedback and then either ignore it or fight tooth and nail against any changes to their "masterpiece". As far as internet forums go, this is one of the nicer ones BY FAR, and if you are afraid of getting your feelings hurt then either don't post of don't read the comments.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2012-12-21 at 10:36 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    If you aim is about 'tiers' then yes a 'tier' 3 designation is what I am aiming for

    I never fought tooth and nail over it, infact I incorpeated a lot of the feedback into my class. just take a look at what people have critiqued and you will find that I have done so.

    Your summarizatin is exactly what my sumamrization was in my original post...

    this forums IS nicer if you happen to be of the 'old boy club'

    I expect people who critque to actually do more than drop a one liner and say i stopped reading after the 1st line. I am asking for critique on the whole class ( note to self. put 'please critique the entire class' in the header for furture homebrews) not just 1st level and then say that its a waste of your life to critque anything else about the class.

    I exepect much the same from critques as you do ,but ive found that peopel either go off on a tangent about what improved precise shot does for 3 pages like on my ranger homebrew suffered, or they say what is wrong with a class and not give any suggestions like what happened in this homebrew and a couple more of mine. thats why I posted the definiton of critique so peopel would actually critique, becuase if all you do is say how bad and much of a failure something is without giving any helpful advice or CONSTRUCTIVE criticism then, in reality, all you are doing is being very insulting and degrading.

    Would this class overshadow a gestalt warblade/fighter or a gestalt rogue/swordsage? (thats the best descritpion i can give as to what rogue and fighter I use)

    and you get hybridization at 7th, 13th and 19th levels. not just at 19th. or 18th.. im sort of confused by your statement of having to wait 18 levels.

    Im not going on how powerful something is, I know that power is somethnig that a lot fo GITPers are all about, but I am more of a feel and concpet guy. Does this class feel and/or the concept come close to a being that is infused with the natural world around him gaining powers, abilties and forms of that very nature?

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    With Hybridisation, can you hybrid more than one animal? I,e a Spiders Poison, a Constrictors Grapple and an Eagles Flight, say? Or is it just one animal?

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    My mistake then, I misread when Hybridization comes into play.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    Illiteracy Primals are the only characters who do not automatically know how to read and write. A Primal may spend 2 skill points to gain the ability to read and write a language he is able to speak.
    I second the idea of removing "only." Just because you don't have barbarians (or any other illiterate classes, for that matter) doesn't mean any setting will be the same. An analogy– the barbarian doesn't claim to be the only illiterate class, so why should this?

    Heightened Senses {Ex}: A Primal's senses are heightened, gaining low-light vision that can see 3 times as far in dim light. Primals also gain a +1 bonus to spot and listen checks; this bonus increases by +1 every 5th level.
    I might reduce it to x2, or normal low-light, at least if they don't already have low-light vision.

    Animalistic Capability {Ex}: At 3rd level and again every 5th level afterwards a Primal may select a bonus feat from the following selection.
    Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Blind-Fight, Endurance, Great Fortitude , Improved Overrun, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Mobility, Run, Stealthy
    Seems like a good selection. I'd add commas. On a more PEACH-y note, can you take them multiple times if the feat allows?

    Toughened Hide {Ex}: A Primal's natural AC in both wild-shaped and natural forms increases by 1 at every 5th level.
    Edit for succinctness

    Enhanced Attacks {Su}: At 5th level a Primal's unarmed attacks and natural attacks whilst wildshaped are empowered, and are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 11th level they are also treated as Silver or Cold-iron, and adamantine at 17th.
    What exactly does an empowered weapon do? Is it the same as Empower Spell? Also, do the materials stack or can he only pick one per use of wild shape?

    Wild Fighting {Ex}: At 7th level a Primal using the full-attack action can make one extra attack per round at his highest base attack bonus. Until the beginning of his next turn, however, she takes a –3 penalty on attack rolls and –6 penalty to AC.
    I get the flavor, but this seems like a harsh penalty. I, at least, would never use this

    Hybridization {Ex}: A Primal can at 7th level assume an Extraordinary ability from a wildshape form he knows and apply it to another. A primal can assume an additional ability at 13th and 19th levels. For example a 12th level Primal can take a spider's ability to shoot webbing while in Wild shape as a Tiger and at 13th level he can gain a spider's Tremorsense and finally at 19th the spider's poison.
    In that order, or are those just examples? Overall, though, neat ability

    Immunity to Crits At 15th level a Primal is immune to critical hits and takes half damage from precision based attacks, such as Sneak Attack.
    The second half is redundant. I think you're automatically immune to precision damage if you're immune to critical hits. At the very least, you're immune to Sneak Attack if immune to critical hits

    A Thousand Faces {Su}: At 16th level, a Primal gains the ability to change his appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell, but only while in his normal form. This affects the Primal’s body but not his possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the Primal’s appearance, within the limits described for the spell.
    Move this to an earlier level. It's just like the monk. A 1st level spell at will at a level where it's pretty much irrelevant. And if someone's using true seeing, which by this level, they should be able to, it's completely useless

    Feral Avatar {Ex}: A Primal's Wildshape becomes much more potent. A Primal may now wildshape as a move action, and during the wildshape duration may change his form multiple times during the duration, equal to 1+ his Charisma Modifier, and only the first transformation heals the Primal. If the Primal changes into its natural form, the use of wild shape ends.
    Neat capstone

    Invocation
    I'll PEACH these later. For now I'd work on formatting. Currently I have no clue how to use these, other than that I start with one and mostly gain another every other level.

    Final note: Spelling and grammar, people! ngilop, I apologize in advance if English isn't your first language or something, but there ARE a lot of errors in your posts. I mean more than the expected to/too/two or its/it's. At least check that you have spaces in the right places. It REALLY helps readability
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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    I expect people who critque to actually do more than drop a one liner and say i stopped reading after the 1st line. I am asking for critique on the whole class ( note to self. put 'please critique the entire class' in the header for furture homebrews) not just 1st level and then say that its a waste of your life to critque anything else about the class.
    I can understand the feeling, but this is, indirectly, a form of critique. If someone stops reading at level one, then they probably won't want to play the class - which is, after all, what the class is there for, is it not? So you might consider doing some reformatting or renaming to make later levels look more interesting.

    It's not as helpful as full-on critique, though.

    I exepect much the same from critques as you do ,but ive found that peopel either go off on a tangent about what improved precise shot does for 3 pages like on my ranger homebrew suffered, or they say what is wrong with a class and not give any suggestions like what happened in this homebrew and a couple more of mine. thats why I posted the definiton of critique so peopel would actually critique, becuase if all you do is say how bad and much of a failure something is without giving any helpful advice or CONSTRUCTIVE criticism then, in reality, all you are doing is being very insulting and degrading.
    Well, discussions will happen and it's a part of reality that, sometimes, people won't talk about what you want them to. It's better than nothing, though - your thread is on page 1, even if all the new posts are about Improved Precise Shot, unlike the ones which gather a few views and maybe a comment or two before falling into the depths of old threads which nobody reads or finds.

    A part of the issue you have is one that almost everything does: saying "this is broken" is easier than saying "this is broken, but you can do this to fix it". It's especially true when one is talking about something like "not enough options", where the sheer breadth of potential things to add can leave one without an idea of which option to put into the class.

    As I said before, even "this is bad" is a form of critique better than no replies, although it falls far short of thorough evaluation.

    Im not going on how powerful something is, I know that power is somethnig that a lot fo GITPers are all about, but I am more of a feel and concpet guy. Does this class feel and/or the concept come close to a being that is infused with the natural world around him gaining powers, abilties and forms of that very nature?
    To be honest, this is a misconception a fair number of people have, one that I don't like. Just because one is concerned about how strong something is doesn't change whether or not they care about its feel or concept.

    An example: let's say that someone is making a homebrew class for a fire mage. Unfortunately (and this is not meant to imply that your class has such problems), they can't use fire magic well, at all. In fact, they suck at it more than even noncasters using UMD. Clearly, the class is not powerful - which at the same time means that it won't have the "feel" of a good fire mage concept unless you wanted to play someone who sucks at what they do.

    Now that I'm done with this thorough reply to your post, I will do the same with the class, although the result may not be as detail-rich as those of others.
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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Ok added in the rules for invocations (hopefully I did them right)

    clearified some issues that were raised


    Im thinking of going kinda the pathfinder route and instead of getting the stats themselves, one gets a set numerical bonus to physical stats when wildshaped.. think that will be good.

    I want this class to be melee/damage sponge more so that melee/damage dealer

    again if paired up against a gestalt fighter/warblade or rogue/swordsage is the Primal overly dominate in melee, underperforming or are they about equal?

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Some of this might have been ninja'd by your changes, but here is the promised Deep Review:

    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by ngilop View Post
    Special Abilities
    Missing is the Invocations information thing. What actions are they (unless specified otherwise), what are save DCs based on (I'd assume Charisma, but it's still missing and you do have Invocations with saves).

    My proposal:
    Spoiler
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    A primal uses Invocations, following the same rules that a warlock's do, chosen from the list below.

    Using an invocation is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. [Description of level of armor that impedes using invocations]. The save DC for an invocation (if it allows one) is [formula; standard would be 10 + effective spell level + Cha mod, as you seem to be going for a minor Cha focus with the class].


    Also missing is weapon and armor proficiency information. As is, they're not proficient with any armor or weapons, including any natural ones they gain via Wildshape.

    My proposal:
    Spoiler
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    A primal is proficient in [light/medium/heavy] armor, [shields,] [simple/martial/etc. weapons] as well as any natural attacks it gains by using Wildshape.


    Another general note: Most of the time, the class name is not capitalized in an ability description. It doesn't really matter, though, and it comes down to personal taste whether you want to or not.

    Improved Unarmed Strike At 1st level, a Primal gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat.
    Alright. This allows them to smack things while stuck as a person (or whatever they are) without having to invest in a weapon. Not much to say here.

    Spoiler
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    Heightened Senses {Ex}: A Primals sense are heightened, gaining low-light vision that can see 3 times as far in dim light. Primals also gain a +1 bonus to spot and listen checks, this bonus increases by +1 every 5th level.


    Bolded a missing comma I inserted.

    As-is, the ability is fine, however the writing isn't quite there. The underlines portion implies that their low-light vision sees things, not them, which is...an odd form of technically correct, I think.

    Also, skill names are capitalized, in part to differentiate "+1 bonus to Spot" and "+1 bonus to spotting [something]" or similar.

    I'd add the level it's granted at, to avoid "scroll up, see where it's given, scroll down, scroll up..." and make it easier to just read through and navigate.

    My proposal:
    Spoiler
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    Heightened Senses {Ex}: At level 1, primal's senses are heightened, and they gain low-light vision that allows them to see three times are far in dim light as a normal human. Primals also gain a +1 bonus to Spot and Listen checks, this bonus increases by +1 every 5th level.

    If they already have low-light vision, it is [interaction here].


    Wild Shape {Su}: At 2nd level, a Primal gains the ability to turn himself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. His options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the alternate form special ability, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per Primal level, or until he changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. Each time you use wild shape, you regain lost hit points as if you had rested for a night.

    The form chosen must be that of an animal the Primal is familiar with. With a Maximum of 2 animals per rank of Knowledge: Nature
    Snipping this down to what I'm commenting on.

    The immediate issue I see is this: at level 2, you can turn into any of 10 (max ranks in K. Nature at level 2 * 2) animals...for 2 hours, once per day. Often this means that you'll change for one fight, then be out of uses for the day. In a dungeon crawl, where all of the fights are chained together in a brief succession, it'd work, but otherwise, not so much.

    I'd perhaps consider making it a time-based system. Perhaps half an hour per class level, with each use costing 5 minutes minimum, letting you change for each fight and have some utility left over (a la "let my become a mouse to spy on this important thing!").

    Animalistic Capability {Ex}: At 3rd level ang again every 5th level afterwards a Primal may select a bonus feat from the following selection.
    Acrobatic Agile Alertness Athletic Blind-Fight Endurance Great Fortitude Improved Overrun Iron Will Lightning Reflexes Mobility Run Stealthy
    As mentioned above by someone else, commas make this easier to read. Also, there's a typo: "ang" instead of "and". The 'ability' itself is fine, bonus feats are a nice way to get otherwise not-worth-it feats.

    I'd consider listing this and other scaling abilities on the table at each level they update. It generally makes the class look more 'full' of abilities and allows for easily reading off the table. It could be too cluttered, too, though, so I'd take a look at it both with and without before deciding either way.

    Feral Instincts {Ex}:A Primal gets a +2 bonus to Initiative at 4th level, this increases by 1 every 4th level afterwards. In addition as long as the Primal is not denied his dexterity bonus, he gains a +2 bonus to Reflex Saves.
    Solid. Perhaps a bonus to Survival checks? It wouldn't come up often, but the fluff makes sense. Animal instincts include how to hunt, etc.

    Toughened Hide {Ex}: A Primal's natural AC in both wild-shaped and natural forms increases by 1 at 5th level and again by 1 every 5th level afterwards.
    Another wording issue. "Natural AC" is not a thing. You mean "natural armor bonus to AC". With this change, it's fine. See my above comment about scaling abilities.

    Enhanced Attacks {Su}: At 5th level a Primal's unarmed attacks and natural attacks whilst wildshaped are empowered, and are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 11th level they are also treated as Silver or Cold-iron , while at 17th adamantite.
    As it's already happened once, I'd consider changing the wording a bit, as it seems to imply that "empowered" is an entirely stand-alone thing applied to the primal's 'attacks'.

    My proposal:
    Spoiler
    Show
    At 5th level a primal's unarmed strikes and attacks with natural weapons [to include those with a racial natural weapon] are empowered, being treated as magical weapons for the purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction.

    At 11th level the primal's unarmed strikes and attacks with natural weapons are also considered to be silver and cold iron for the purposes of overcoming Damage Reduction. At 17th level, they are also considered adamantine for overcoming hardness and DR [this allows them to punch holes in inanimate objects as well].


    Healing Factor {Ex}: At 6th level a Primal gains Fast Healing equal to his base (un-wildshaped) Con modifier.
    Fast Healing is good solo and in a party, as it removes the pressure from other sources of healing to keep one at full between fights.

    By the way, Fast Healing sort of makes the healing from Wildshaping irrelevant. Is this intended?

    Wild Fighting {Ex}: At 7th level a Primal using the full-attack action can make one extra attack per round at his highest base attack bonus. Until the beginning of his next turn, however, she takes a –3 penalty on attack rolls and –6 penalty to AC.
    This is a bad ability. Do you know why? It's because, in most situations, nobody will use it (reduced accuracy and a hugely increased chance to get hit, remember you only have a d8 HD so -6 AC can mean taking a lot of hurt) and when they do it's probably when the penalties don't matter or are being covered up so as to not matter

    Also, I'm not sure if the attack penalty applies to the extra attack and normal ones of the entire full attack, or just ones after it.

    My proposal:
    Spoiler
    Show
    At 7th level a primal using the full attack action can make one extra attack at his highest base attack bonus. If they choose to do so, they take a -2 penalty on [all attacks made during that turn/all attacks until the beginning of their next turn].
    The AC penalty is flavorful but a bad thing to include with this - I'd personally avoid using an ability like this as anything but a finisher, to avoid taking a bunch of damage due to a tanked AC.

    If that's what you want, then go ahead and keep the AC penalty, but I'd advise lowering it.


    Hybridization {Ex}: A Primal can at 7th level assume an Extraordinary ability form a wildshape form he knows and apply it to another. A primal can assume an additional ability at 13th and 19th levels. For example a 12th level Primal can while in Wild shape as a Tiger take a spider's ability to shoot webbing and at 13th level he can gain a spiders Tremor sense and finally at 19th the spider's poison.
    A cool ability, a few typos in the description though, corrections underlined. It lets you get more metaphorical bang for your metaphorical buck with some mix-and-match.

    Is there any per-day or time/switching limit? That is, can I grab shoot webbing, then switch it for Tremorsense? If I take shoot webbing once, am I stuck with it for all of my Hybridizations?

    Bestial Mind {Ex}: At 8th level a Primal gets a +4 bonus to Will Saves vs Charm or Compulsion effects.
    Alright. A save bonus. Not the most exciting thing, but not everything needs to be.

    Feral Fortitude {Ex}: At 9th level a Primal gains a bonus on saving throws against disease, exhaustion, fatigue, fear, and poison, Equal to His Charisma Modifier. He also recovers from ability damage, exhaustion, and fatigue at twice the normal rate.
    The capitalization is a bit of a curveball, I'd change it to "equal to his Charisma modifier". The ability itself is nice, although basing it off of Charisma is a little unusual. Perhaps some fluff to explain it?

    Scent {Ex}: At 11th level the Primal gains the Scent ability

    Immunity to Crits At 15th level a Primal is immune to critical hits and takes half damage from precision based attacks, such as Sneak Attack.
    Apart from the potential redundancy noted by the person above, I have nothing to say. It's nice and gives the class a bit of its own flavor.

    A Thousand Faces {Su}: At 16th level, a Primal gains the ability to change his appearance at will, as if using the disguise self spell, but only while in his normal form. This affects the Primal’s body but not his possessions. It is not an illusory effect, but a minor physical alteration of the Primal’s appearance, within the limits described for the spell.
    As an ability cribbed right from the Druid, this is actually...eh. It's nice fluff, but the actual usefulness is almost zero. I'd add it sooner, perhaps at level 9 or similar, and/or have it scale so that it becomes (or just is) impossible to pierce via magical means (i.e. True Sight doesn't see through it).

    Feral Avatar {Ex}: A Primal's Wildshape becomes much more potent. A Primal may now wildshape as a move action, and during the wildshape duration may change his form multiple times during the duration, equal to 1+ his Charisma Modifier, and only the first transformation heals the Primal. If the Primal changes into its natural form, the use of wild shape ends.
    Cool. A nice capstone to keep people in the class. I approve.

    Invocations
    Typo/plural issue.

    I'll take a look at the Invocations later, but a quick tip: I'd split it into the names/listing of grade and brief description from the full one, or at least add more line breaks. It's hard to read as is, which makes it tough to avoid the "hard to read, I'm not going to" response.
    Not Person_Man, don't thank me for things he did.

    Old-to-New table converter. Also not made by me.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    ok its been a year and ive decided to come back to this class and institue person man's suggestions!

    and the barbarian actually does say
    Barbarians are the only characters who do not automatically know how to read and write
    page 25 of the PHB

    so there is that.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    RangerGuy

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    ok first I would like to say this. I like the class. it could definitely be worse.
    What my suggestions are:
    1) The heightened senses I could see adding at mid lvls Dark vision out to 60'.
    2) The Capstone i could see doing twice. The first time being able to change as a move. The second time i could see being a Swift action. The Reasoning behind this is usually Avatars don't normally take their time changing their shape. Now i could see doing A: Swift for normal Animals and Having a Move action for Elemental or something that's generally not norm. Say Dire Black widow Bear form. or something just for balance.
    3) Natures Gift: Where you get a bonus to saving throws against poisons say a +2 or something.
    4)Bond with the Primordial: In your natural form you have such a bond with nature and the primal where it affects you physically. you can choose to have a Natural Armor bonus or a Natural attack (like Bite).


    All are only suggestions or food for thought. Im sure Players who have been playing longer then I can do better
    There Is Chaos in Order and Order in Chaos.

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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    For illiteracy, I'd put: As barbarian (see p. 25, PHB) so that people know it's modeled on barbarian core class.

    If the class is about animals, I'd swap wildshaping into elementals at high levels and put something else in. Master of many forms might be a good source of inspiration.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Just realized that i left out the text for one of my abilities, that is now fixed.

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Nifft's Avatar

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    Default Re: Primal {{Please Critque}}

    Have you considered using the Shapeshift variant from PHB2 instead of Wild Shape? (It's a Druid variant, in the alternative class features section.) That's balanced right from level 1, and already has a viable progression written.

    Some of these Invocations are very unlike Warlock / Dragonfire Adept versions... you've got a lot of 2 rounds per level stuff, rather than 24 hours (or until cast again to prohibit stacking). Your versions do stack, and require more book-keeping, both of which seem like bad changes.

    I notice you've got Burst of Speed, which looks like the burst psionic power, but your version is a Standard action to activate (which makes it basically useless).

    Predator's Roar seems much better than Exhalation of Dragons (which is one tier higher).

    Some ability text doesn't match the table -- like Feral Fortitude says it happens at 9th level, but the table shows it at 10th level.

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