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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    This is part of a larger project aimed at bringing all of the base classes into balance, ie Tiers 2-4.

    Most would agree that the Monk is a class with good vision and poor synergistic implementation. The goal is to bring the Monk up to a High Tier 4 class.

    Modifications to the Basic Monk class will be Bolded below. All other class features will remain unchanged.

    Summary of Changes
    Spoiler
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    The Monk Gains additional Skill Points per level, more weapon proficiencies, more Monk weapons, the ability to Flurry of Blows as a standard or charge action. The ability to use ranged monk weapons with a flurry. The Monk gains Uncanny Dodge and Improved Uncanny Dodge as well as some basic improvements to monk abilities.


    Additions and Changes to the Monk class.
    Table of Changes

    Monk
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
    Flurry of Blows
    |
    Unarmed Damage
    |
    AC Bonus
    |
    Speed Bonus

    1st|+0|+2|+2|+2|Bonus Feat, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike, Ascetic Athleticism, Fast Movement|
    -2/-2
    |
    1d6
    |
    +0
    |
    +10 ft.

    2nd|+1|+3|+3|+3|Bonus Feat, Evasion|
    -1/-1
    |
    1d6
    |
    +1
    |
    +10 ft.

    3rd|+2|+3|+3|+3|Still Mind, Intuitive Relexes|
    +0/+0
    |
    1d6
    |
    +1
    |
    +10 ft.

    4th|+3|+4|+4|+4|Ki Strike (+1 magic), Slow Fall 20 ft.|
    +1/+1
    |
    1d8
    |
    +2
    |
    +10 ft.

    5th|+3|+4|+4|+4|Purity of Body, Uncanny Dodge|
    +2/+2
    |
    1d8
    |
    +2
    |
    +10 ft.

    6th|+4|+5|+5|+5|Bonus Feat, Slow Fall 30 ft.|
    +3/+3
    |
    1d8
    |
    +3
    |
    +20 ft.

    7th|+5|+5|+5|+5|Wholeness of Body|
    +4/+4
    |
    1d8
    |
    +3
    |
    +20 ft.

    8th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+6|Slow Fall 40 ft.|
    +5/+5/+0
    |
    1d10
    |
    +4
    |
    +20 ft.

    9th|+6/+1|+6|+6|+6|Improved Evasion|
    +6/+6/+1
    |
    1d10
    |
    +4
    |
    +20 ft.

    10th|+7/+2|+7|+7|+7|Ki Strike(lawful), Slow Fall 50 ft., Improved Uncanny Dodge|
    +7/+7/+2
    |
    1d10
    |
    +5
    |
    +20 ft.

    11th|+8/+3|+7|+7|+7|Diamond Body, Greater Flurry|
    +8/+8/+8/+3
    |
    1d10
    |
    +5
    |
    +30 ft.

    12th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+8|Abundant Step, Slow Fall 60 ft.|
    +9/+9/+9/+4
    |
    2d6
    |
    +6
    |
    +30 ft.

    13th|+9/+4|+8|+8|+8|Diamond Soul|
    +9/+9/+9/+4
    |
    2d6
    |
    +6
    |
    +30 ft.

    14th|+10/+5|+9|+9|+9|Slow Fall 70 ft.|
    +10/+10/+10+/5
    |
    2d6
    |
    +7
    |
    +30 ft.

    15th|+11/+6/+1|+9|+9|+9|Quivering Palm|
    +11/+11/+11/+6/+1
    |
    2d6
    |
    +7
    |
    +30 ft.

    16th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|Ki Strike(adamantine), Slow Fall 80 ft.|
    +12/+12/+12/+7/+2
    |
    2d8
    |
    +8
    |
    +40 ft.

    17th|+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+10|Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon|
    +12/+12/+12/+7/+2
    |
    2d8
    |
    +8
    |
    +40 ft.

    18th|+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+11|Slow Fall 90 ft.|
    +13/+13/+13/+8/+3
    |
    2d8
    |
    +9
    |
    +40 ft.

    19th|+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+11|Empty Body|
    +14/+14/+14/+9/+4
    |
    2d8
    |
    +9
    |
    +40 ft.

    20th|+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+12|Perfect Self, Slow Fall Any Distance|
    +15/+15/+15/+10/+5
    |
    2d10
    |
    +10
    |
    +40 ft.

    [/table]


    Alignment
    Any Nonchaotic

    Hit Die
    d8.

    Class Skills
    The monk’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

    Skill Points at 1st Level
    (6 + Int modifier) ×4.

    Skill Points at Each Additional Level
    6 + Int modifier.

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the monk.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Monks are proficient with bow(short bow and longbow), club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling.

    Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields

    When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities.

    AC Bonus (Ex)
    When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 2nd level. This bonus increases by 1 for every two monk levels thereafter (+2 at 4th, +3 at 6th, +4 at 8th, +5 at 10th, +6 at 12th, +7 at 14th, +8 at 16th, +9 at 18th, and +10 at 20th level).

    These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

    Flurry of Blows (Ex)
    When unarmored, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. The resulting modified base attack bonuses are shown in the Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus column on Table: The Monk. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to -1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk may use a standard, full, or charge attack to strike with a flurry of blows.

    When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (bow(short bow and longbow), kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling.). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus × 1˝ or ×˝) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands unless the monk is attacking with a ranged weapon, then it does not apply a strength bonus to damage. The monk can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.

    In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a monk may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so.

    Greater Flurry
    When a monk reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus.

    Unarmed Strike
    At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. A Monk can choose to make an offhand attack as per two weapon fighting rules. All normal two weapon fighting rules apply, unarmed strikes count as light weapons. A monk may apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

    Usually a monk’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

    A monk’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

    A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Monk. The unarmed damage on Table: The Monk is for Medium monks. A Small monk deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large monk deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage.

    Table: Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage
    Level Damage
    (Small Monk) Damage
    (Large Monk)
    1st-3rd 1d4 1d8
    4th-7th 1d6 2d6
    8th-11th 1d8 2d8
    12th-15th 1d10 3d6
    16th-19th 2d6 3d8
    20th 2d8 4d8

    Ascetic Athleticism

    The Monk is capable of incredible feats of Athleticism and adds one half their Monk level to any Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Jump, Move Silently, Swim and Tumble check.

    Also, a Monk receives a bonus equal to 1/2 his Monk level up to his Wisdom Modifier to break items.


    Bonus Feat
    At 1st, 2nd, and 6th level a Monk can select any Fighter Bonus feat, Intuitive Attack, Ascetic Diversity, or Zen Archery. The Monk needs to meet the prerequisites as normal to select these feats with the exception of Combat Reflexes, Deflect Arrows, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Trip, Intuitive Attack, Stunning Fist, and Zen Archery.

    Evasion (Ex)
    At 2nd level or higher if a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Fast Movement (Ex)
    At 3rd level, a monk gains an enhancement bonus to her speed, as shown on Table: The Monk. A monk in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed.

    Still Mind (Ex)
    A monk of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment.

    Intuitive Reflexes

    At 3rd level, a Monk adds their Wisdom Modifier to Initiative in addition to their Dexterity Modifier.


    Ki Strike (Su)
    At 4th level, a monk’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. Her unarmed attacks are treated as magic weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. Ki strike improves with the character’s monk level. At 10th level, her unarmed attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 16th level, her unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

    A Monk's unarmed strikes also receive an +1 enhancement bonus to hit and to damage at 4th level and increasing every 4 Monk levels thereafter(+2 at 8th, +3 at 12th, +4 at 16th, and +5 at 20th level).

    Slow Fall (Ex)
    At 4th level or higher, a monk within arm’s reach of a wall Or other suitable surface can use it to slow her descent. When first using this ability, she takes damage as if the fall were 20 feet shorter than it actually is. The monk’s ability to slow her fall (that is, to reduce the effective distance of the fall when next to a wall) improves with her monk level until at 20th level she can use a nearby wall to slow her descent and fall any distance without harm.

    Purity of Body (Ex)
    At 5th level, a monk gains immunity to all diseases including supernatural and magical diseases.

    Uncanny Dodge

    At 5th level, a Monk retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a Monk already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.


    Wholeness of Body (Su)
    At 7th level or higher, a monk can heal her own wounds. She can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice her current monk level each day, and she can spread this healing out among several uses.

    Improved Evasion (Ex)
    At 9th level, a monk’s evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

    Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
    At 10th level and higher, a Monk can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the Monk by flanking him, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has Monk levels. If a character already has uncanny dodge from a second class, the character automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead, and the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum level a rogue must be to flank the character.


    Diamond Body (Su)
    At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.

    Abundant Step (Su)
    At 12th level or higher, a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, once per day. Her caster level for this effect is one-half her monk level (rounded down).

    Diamond Soul (Ex)
    At 13th level, a monk gains spell resistance equal to her current monk level + 10. In order to affect the monk with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the monk’s spell resistance.

    Quivering Palm (Su)
    Starting at 15th level, a monk can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. She can use this quivering palm attack once a day, and she must announce her intent before making her attack roll. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to her monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + ˝ the monk’s level + the monk’s Wis modifier), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time.

    Timeless Body (Ex)
    Upon attaining 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when her time is up.

    Tongue of the Sun and Moon (Ex)
    A monk of 17th level or higher can speak with any living creature.

    Empty Body (Su)
    At 19th level, a monk gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 round per monk level per day, as though using the spell etherealness. She may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of rounds spent in an ethereal state does not exceed her monk level.

    Perfect Self
    At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature. She is forevermore treated as an native outsider rather than as a humanoid (or whatever the monk’s creature type was) for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 10/-, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type.

    Ex-Monks
    A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.

    Like a member of any other class, a monk may be a multiclass character, but multiclass monks face a special restriction. A monk who gains a new class or (if already multiclass) raises another class by a level may never again raise her monk level, though she retains all her monk abilities.


    Monk Feats
    Spoiler
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    Ascetic Diversity

    Requirements: Monk

    Benefit: The Monk selects one additional class, the levels in the selected class are added to your monk class level for calculating some Monk based Special Abilities(Unarmed Damage, AC Bonus, Fast Movement, and Ascetic Athleticism). This feat does not advance any other class feature such as Flurry of Blows, nor does it grant new Monk Special Abilities. Ascetic Diversity can not raise your effective Monk level beyond your total Hit Dice.


    ACF's
    Spoiler
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    Carmedine Monk

    Level: 1st
    Replace: Wisdom with Int for all class features.
    Gain: All Knowledge Skills as Class Skills.
    Lose: Monk AC Bonus increases by one for every three levels, not two(+2 at 5th, +3 at 8th, +4 at 11th, +5 at 14th, +6 at 17th, and +7 at 20th)


    Martial Arts Master

    Level: 1st
    Lose: Medium BAB, Good Will Save, D8 Hit Dice, Still Mind, Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body, Abundant Step, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Empty Body, Perfect Self.

    Gain: Full BAB, Poor Will Save, D10 Hit Dice. Monk Unarmed Damage Progression as a Monk four levels higher.

    Last edited by Zman; 2013-12-16 at 12:28 PM.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Changelog:

    12-23-12
    Added Zen Archery and Intuitive Attack to the list of potential Bonus Feats for the Monk.
    Added Ascetic Athleticism for flavor.
    Added Table for Clarity

    12-25-12
    Perfect self now turns the Monk into a native outsider.

    12-29-12
    Increased AC Bonus to 1/2levels
    Added Intuitive Reflexes.
    Added New Monk Feat: Ascetic Diversity to ease Multiclassing.
    Clarified two weapon fighting Monos with unarmed attacks.
    Ki Strike now has an enhancement bonus.

    1-2-12
    Fixed a few typos, no mechanical changes.

    2-7-13
    Fixed Monk Speed Bonus
    Made Slowfall more usable
    Added Carmedine Monk and Martial Arts Master ACFs

    2-11-13
    Changed Alignment restriction from Any Lawful, to Any Nonchaotic

    12-16-13
    Refined Martial Arts Master ACF
    Added bonus to Break Attempts for Aestetic Athleticism
    Last edited by Zman; 2013-12-16 at 12:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Nice. These were all called for ages ago.
    You're definitely on the right track here, but again, not enough.

    1. AC bonus should be +1 at 2nd level and increase by +1 with each 3 levels beyond 2nd.
    2. Wholeness of Body - not enough. Make it 5 / level (a total 50 per day is hardly impressive at 10th level).
    3. Slow Fall is a single level feature (I mean really, at its best, it's inferior to feather fall). Detail the increase in the feature's description and cleanup the table.
    4. Put Uncanny Dodge at 3rd level (Still Mind is not really a class feature, so it shouldn't stand on it own).
    5. Put Improved Uncanny Dodge at 8th level.
    6. Abundant Step - allow additional daily uses every 2 levels past 12 (it's really not all that impressive at those levels).
    7. Give the Monk continuous Freedom of Movement at level 14.
    8. Give the Monk 1 daily use of Foresight as a free action at level 18.
    9. Put a bonus feat at every level divisible by 6.
    10. Allow the monk to count its class levels as BAB for the purpose of qualifying for feats (so at least no one can have Stunning Fist before monks can).
    11. Allow monks to add their Str-bonus when throwing Shuriken & Darts


    Now the class is good to go.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Nice. These were all called for ages ago.
    You're definitely on the right track here, but again, not enough.

    1. AC bonus should be +1 at 2nd level and increase by +1 with each 3 levels beyond 2nd.
    2. Wholeness of Body - not enough. Make it 5 / level (a total 50 per day is hardly impressive at 10th level).
    3. Slow Fall is a single level feature (I mean really, at its best, it's inferior to feather fall). Detail the increase in the feature's description and cleanup the table.
    4. Put Uncanny Dodge at 3rd level (Still Mind is not really a class feature, so it shouldn't stand on it own).
    5. Put Improved Uncanny Dodge at 8th level.
    6. Abundant Step - allow additional daily uses every 2 levels past 12 (it's really not all that impressive at those levels).
    7. Give the Monk continuous Freedom of Movement at level 14.
    8. Give the Monk 1 daily use of Foresight as a free action at level 18.
    9. Put a bonus feat at every level divisible by 6.
    10. Allow the monk to count its class levels as BAB for the purpose of qualifying for feats (so at least no one can have Stunning Fist before monks can).
    11. Allow monks to add their Str-bonus when throwing Shuriken & Darts


    Now the class is good to go.
    I think you are right about AC. I may end up giving the Monk a better progression.

    I don't know if the rest is necessary. The Monk rives a large power boost already, certainly enough to make it a Tier 4 class and much more viable than a dip.


    I'll keep the suggestions in mind. Remember, this Fix is one of many in progress and planned which are bringing the classes closer together.

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    I think you are right about AC. I may end up giving the Monk a better progression.

    I don't know if the rest is necessary. The Monk rives a large power boost already, certainly enough to make it a Tier 4 class and much more viable than a dip.


    I'll keep the suggestions in mind. Remember, this Fix is one of many in progress and planned which are bringing the classes closer together.
    I took that into account in advance.
    Just remember that rejecting my suggestions leaves your Monk with 4 dead levels (3, 8, 14, 18) in-practice, two next-to-useless features (Wholeness of Body & Abundant step), an unnecessarily convoluted table (Slow Fall), and significantly narrower build-wise & option-wise than it should be at high levels (the feats issue - the Monk trailing other classes in obtaining and capitalizing on Stunning Fist is ridiculous).

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    I took that into account in advance.
    Just remember that rejecting my suggestions leaves your Monk with 4 dead levels (3, 8, 14, 18) in-practice, two next-to-useless features (Wholeness of Body & Abundant step), an unnecessarily convoluted table (Slow Fall), and significantly narrower build-wise & option-wise than it should be at high levels (the feats issue - the Monk trailing other classes in obtaining and capitalizing on Stunning Fist is ridiculous).
    Monk can select Stunning Fist at first level as written. I was trying to keep things close to the Core class and could clean up Slowfall.

    Also, the thought that every single level should b granting abilities is a Homebrew idea, many core classes have "dead" levels. And two of those actuall grant feats.

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Specify that the Monk is a Native Outsider so he is immune to being banished or dismissed into Nothingness.
    Larloch, The Shadow King (w/ Ioun Stones) avatar by Iron Penguin

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    Specify that the Monk is a Native Outsider so he is immune to being banished or dismissed into Nothingness.
    Great catch, completely missed it. Will be changed.

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    Monk can select Stunning Fist at first level as written. I was trying to keep things close to the Core class and could clean up Slowfall.
    And if they don't, that option is lost until 12th level (11th at best).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    Also, the thought that every single level should b granting abilities is a Homebrew idea, many core classes have "dead" levels. And two of those actuall grant feats.
    Yes, perhaps the single best homebrew rule of thumb ever.
    The power gap between base classes and PrCs is ginormous. Instead of PrCs being taken for flavor and character concept, they're taken for power gaming. Power-wise, a player in a lightly-houseruled no-homebrew game is an idiot not to PrC. What's the point of fixing a class if it's still not worthy of 20 levels ?

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Increased Monk AC Bonus, added new feat Ascetic Diversity.

  11. - Top - End - #11
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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    It's a good, simple fix, aye. Nothing really new, but general improvements all across the board. I generally like it, although a few unaddressed issues still stand out:

    • Why a medium BAB? The monk is very much a martial class, with every bit as much training as a fighter or paladin.
    • It's still pretty MAD, requiring Str for melee damage and possibly attack, Dex for AC, Con to make up for the low HD, and Wis for class features. An ability to use Wis in place of Str or Dex when wielding special monk weapons would help a lot, methinks.
    • Ascetic Atheleticism could stand to be much higher-- monk level, twice monk level, five times monk level... if you leave Hide and Move Silently off the list, arbitrarily high skill modifiers on physical skills don't really unbalance everything, and they let you reach full-on Wuxia level movement.
    • Uncanny Dodge does come a tad late.
    • Abundant Step is still a weird ability. More explicitly magical than anything else in the class, which makes it not fit well, but too limited in uses/day to be really practical. Why not make it Wis mod/day?
    • Ditto Quivering Palm, although that one's at least grounded in semi-plausible material.
    • Ditto Empty Body.
    • Perfect Self could maybe also grant a perfection bonus to all ability scores? It's a bit of an underwhelming capstone.

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    A big book of player options for 5e, by me

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    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    It's a good, simple fix, aye. Nothing really new, but general improvements all across the board. I generally like it, although a few unaddressed issues still stand out:

    • Why a medium BAB? The monk is very much a martial class, with every bit as much training as a fighter or paladin.

      Full BAB and up to 8 attacks, 9 with a haste effects is getting kind of crazy. I see your point but don't feel it's necessary.
    • It's still pretty MAD, requiring Str for melee damage and possibly attack, Dex for AC, Con to make up for the low HD, and Wis for class features. An ability to use Wis in place of Str or Dex when wielding special monk weapons would help a lot, methinks.


      Con: I've considered a Wis replace Con for HP for Monk levels only, but am still on the fence.
      Str: The Monk already can as a bonus feat use Wis to hit with Melee weapons, don't need more than a 10 Str for Melee.
      Dex: Is important, especially if going for the Two weapon Fighting Furry. But can be neglected in favor of Wisdom.
      Wis: Important, though can be kept lower in favor of other stats.

      You can effectively build a Dex/Wis Monk, a Str/Dex/Con Monk, and with some smart choices other combinations as well. I think my monk is less MAD already and no more MAD than a Rogue.

    • Ascetic Atheleticism could stand to be much higher-- monk level, twice monk level, five times monk level... if you leave Hide and Move Silently off the list, arbitrarily high skill modifiers on physical skills don't really unbalance everything, and they let you reach full-on Wuxia level movement.

      I'm not looking for full blown Wuxia Movement, just a reasonable buff. I'll likely make it Class level, but I worry about Hide and Move Silently. I opted for the simple solution, a smaller flat bonus instead of making it more complicated.
    • Uncanny Dodge does come a tad late.

      It still is useful, I don't buy it being "late".
    • Abundant Step is still a weird ability. More explicitly magical than anything else in the class, which makes it not fit well, but too limited in uses/day to be really practical. Why not make it Wis mod/day?

      I tried to leave the original class feature.
    • Ditto Quivering Palm, although that one's at least grounded in semi-plausible material.
    • Ditto Empty Body.
    • Perfect Self could maybe also grant a perfection bonus to all ability scores? It's a bit of an underwhelming capstone.Again, I tried for a minor change. May add more, but for now I am reluctant.
    See Blue text for comments.

    Also, don't forget to check the Changelog for tweaks.
    Last edited by Zman; 2012-12-29 at 12:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    You can swap Intuitive Reflexes and UD, and put IUD at 8th level with a clear conscious.

    Also, your Monk's offensive capabilities are still way too weak.

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    You can swap Intuitive Reflexes and UD, and put IUD at 8th level with a clear conscious.

    Also, your Monk's offensive capabilities are still way too weak.
    I don't think the Monk needs to outpace a Rouge with UD.

    As to Offense, it's been Significatly improved from the Tier 5 base. Ability to Flurry as a Standard and Charge Action, full attack for many more attacks. The ability to two weapon fight unarmed for 8 attacks base at high levels, the enhancement bonus, easy Wis to hit for Melee and Ranged, the ability to flurry with ranged weapons and be a competent archer, and a feat to keep AC, Unarmed Damage, and Speed scaling while dipping or taking levels in another class is pretty significant. I think I've met my goal of a Solid Tier 4 class. Now, with your aim of Tier3 you'll need much more offense.

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    [*]Why a medium BAB? The monk is very much a martial class, with every bit as much training as a fighter or paladin.
    Too many dice rolls don't do well gameflow-wise.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    [*]Ascetic Atheleticism could stand to be much higher-- monk level, twice monk level, five times monk level... if you leave Hide and Move Silently off the list, arbitrarily high skill modifiers on physical skills don't really unbalance everything, and they let you reach full-on Wuxia level movement.
    I'm not sure about this one.
    Not fore, not against. Will require some thought.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    [*]Abundant Step is still a weird ability. More explicitly magical than anything else in the class, which makes it not fit well, but too limited in uses/day to be really practical. Why not make it Wis mod/day?
    I found an interesting alternative that's not limited in daily uses (Thief Acrobat, somewhere on D&D Wiki). Hope I get to it today for my Monk remake.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    [*]Ditto Quivering Palm, although that one's at least grounded in semi-plausible material.
    Yes, Quivering Palm still requires some thinking.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    [*]Perfect Self could maybe also grant a perfection bonus to all ability scores? It's a bit of an underwhelming capstone.
    This one I'm taking for my Monk for sure.

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    Default Re: Zman's Monk Fix(3.5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zman View Post
    I don't think the Monk needs to outpace a Rouge with UD.

    As to Offense, it's been Significatly improved from the Tier 5 base. Ability to Flurry as a Standard and Charge Action, full attack for many more attacks. The ability to two weapon fight unarmed for 8 attacks base at high levels, the enhancement bonus, easy Wis to hit for Melee and Ranged, the ability to flurry with ranged weapons and be a competent archer, and a feat to keep AC, Unarmed Damage, and Speed scaling while dipping or taking levels in another class is pretty significant. I think I've met my goal of a Solid Tier 4 class. Now, with your aim of Tier3 you'll need much more offense.
    Your modifications to FoB are good.
    The problems are hit probabilities and damage output.

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