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  1. - Top - End - #121
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope View Post
    You mentioned Aberrant Dragonmark in the feats section. Using a variant found at the bottom of http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebee/20050704a, the Aberrant Dragonmark becomes an Aberrant feat that would qualify the character for Inhuman Reach for example, which can be quite nice on a Glaive build since the feat explicitly says gaining the 5 foot increased natural reach adds 10 feet to your reach weapons.

    Other Aberrant feats are found at http://dndtools.eu/feats/categories/aberrant/
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    Sorry. I am not dancing. I am trying to find where it says this is a dragonmark handbook. I think I mentioned that they existed, and that I do not provide answers for them.

    ... I think I'll add them to the Inhuman Reach entry. Which should be listed. I'd be ashamed for the original writer if it is not there already.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  2. - Top - End - #122
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Reading through this whole thing thoroughly, to help increase the sum total of my Warlock Knowledge.

    Since I am not terribly familiar with warlocks, I have a quick question regarding Eldritch Cone and Line (since I just got to that part). Can you stack multiple blast-shapes, specifically these two with Chain? What I mean is, if you are facing a huge horde of enemies, and you Chain-Lined an eldritch blast through the middle of the group, would it bounce around to chain to targets on both sides of the line as well?
    If you did a Cone would the Chains bounce around inside the area of effect?

    I suspect this is still far to situational to be useful, but I was curious.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-01-14 at 12:17 AM.
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  3. - Top - End - #123
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Nope. There is a Epic feat to do that, I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  4. - Top - End - #124
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    None of the epic feats at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a allows for double shapes. Doubles essences, yes, but not shapes.

  5. - Top - End - #125
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    There you go. You think I would have memorized that, after writing hte book on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  6. - Top - End - #126
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    There you go. You think I would have memorized that, after writing hte book on them.
    ...But... I wrote the book on them...
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  7. - Top - End - #127
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Well, technically, I wrote (err... assembled) the book on them first.

    Hi there, this is Thinblade checking in. I got pointed in the direction of this guide-in-progress and thought I'd check in. I'm not entirely certain why yet another warlock guide is getting written from scratch, considering that nothing new in 3.5 has been published in years. That's why my Compilation hasn't been updated in a while; there hasn't been anything to update it with. Well, a couple of new builds, but really, it's got enough of those already.

    But I suppose there is value in putting out the information on a variety of places. Especially since Brilliant Gameologists is currently down with no ETA of when its coming back.

    A couple of notes:
    * First, I wouldn't spoiler everything. If I have to click open a spoiler tag to read everything (even when it's just a single paragraph), it becomes way too much work to read it all the way through. Also, it makes it impossible to do a quick browser search for a term you're looking for.
    * And second, definitely spend some time working on the overall formatting and readability. There's a lot of information here; you don't want to make peoples' eyes glaze over with blocks of text, strange colors, etc. Carriage returns are your friends.

  8. - Top - End - #128
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    I think my foresight justifies this handbook well enough. I am picking it up for a friend, anyway.

    I think that makes a third for unspoiling it. I'll add that to the list.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  9. - Top - End - #129
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thinblade View Post
    I'm not entirely certain why yet another warlock guide is getting written from scratch, considering that nothing new in 3.5 has been published in years. That's why my Compilation hasn't been updated in a while; there hasn't been anything to update it with. Well, a couple of new builds, but really, it's got enough of those already.
    This has not stopped anyone from writing guides, ever.

    I can't speak for Thiago, but I believe it began with both the widely-held perception that the Warlock can't really do anything (but more than that, it can't do a lot of the things it can), and also that some avenues felt under-represented by the information compilation. Thiago concerned himself mainly with the Clawlock, which I believe, but admittedly can't recall from memory, got zero mentions in your compilation (it's Dragon Magazine content).
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  10. - Top - End - #130
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol View Post
    This has not stopped anyone from writing guides, ever.
    Oh snap! We got some reasoning up in this thread!

    I can't speak for Thiago, but I believe it began with both the widely-held perception that the Warlock can't really do anything (but more than that, it can't do a lot of the things it can), and also that some avenues felt under-represented by the information compilation. Thiago concerned himself mainly with the Clawlock, which I believe, but admittedly can't recall from memory, got zero mentions in your compilation (it's Dragon Magazine content).
    This pretty much. The Warlock gets no love in this community, and I think it deserves attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  11. - Top - End - #131
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Writeup for Swashbuckler dip:

    Only take Swashbuckler if you need Weapon Finesse and want a slightly better first level chassis than Fighter. Notice that it gets Diplomacy as a class skill but doesn't have Intimidate. The normal second level is crappy because it's just a +1 competence bonus to Reflex saves, but it can be traded for Arcane Stunt (CM 32) which grants a spell-like ability once per day. Unless you have a massive amount of Int and aren't fighting things immune to crits and such (quite unlikely), 3rd level's Insightful Strike isn't worth it compared to more levels in Warlock. The 4th level ability from Dead Levels 2 is based on Bluff so a Warlock could pull it off quite well, but 4 levels for the ability to get some information out of someone based on a skill check isn't worth it especially when Diplomacy can probably get you the same result.

    Really quick version: Swashbuckler should only be taken if you need Weapon Finesse and want a slightly better chassis than Fighter. The features of later levels don't really compare to continued Warlock features.

    An even better dip would be the martial Rogue variant from UA that trades Sneak Attack for the Fighter's feat progression.
    Last edited by Jackalope; 2013-01-14 at 07:53 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #132
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    I'd put down the real quick version, but I seem to have forgotten how to link individual posts so I can credit your post.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  13. - Top - End - #133
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    I'd put down the real quick version, but I seem to have forgotten how to link individual posts so I can credit your post.
    (link)

    Click the little post number at the upper right. This is #133, your post was #132.
    Last edited by Morcleon; 2013-01-14 at 06:36 PM.
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  14. - Top - End - #134
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morcleon View Post
    (link)

    Click the little post number at the upper right. This is #133, your post was #132.
    See? How could I screw that up? I know I had to click something on the post, but it has been so long since I've actually used that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  15. - Top - End - #135
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Can we have more mention of the Sha'ir? From both a flavor and power perspective it's a slam dunk with the Warlock - it can progress both Eldritch Theurge and Eldritch Disciple, it's Cha-focused, it revolves around Diplomancy and the genies that power it can also be used as the source of your warlock abilities as well. (Efreeti and Dao are evil, while Marids are chaotic.)

    There's great synergy in combat too - Invocations are a useful fallback while your gen is out getting that one spell you need.
    Last edited by Psyren; 2013-01-14 at 06:55 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #136
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Pretty sure you mean that the ED or ET can progress Sha'ir, and not the other way around? You made it sound like a prestige class at one point.

    If it wasn't for the fact that Brilliant Gameologists is down the Sha'ir handbook would be available to look at.

    For those interested in the source, it's Dragon Compendium or Dragon Mag 315.

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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lonely Tylenol View Post
    This has not stopped anyone from writing guides, ever.

    I can't speak for Thiago, but I believe it began with both the widely-held perception that the Warlock can't really do anything (but more than that, it can't do a lot of the things it can), and also that some avenues felt under-represented by the information compilation. Thiago concerned himself mainly with the Clawlock, which I believe, but admittedly can't recall from memory, got zero mentions in your compilation (it's Dragon Magazine content).
    Very true.

    And yes, I stayed away from Dragon material. That's partly because I first compiled the doc over on the old WotC 339 Min/Max board, and they had a rather dismissive attitude toward Dragon stuff. Also, a lot of DM's don't allow material from Dragon, and I wanted to make a guide that would be usable in all campaigns.

    I did always think those claws were kind of cool, though, and not just for the Wolverine factor. So if someone's going to step up and make a guide for them, I'm all for it.

  18. - Top - End - #138
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Shinken's Guide to Melee Warlocks is the closest thing to a Clawlock guide.
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  19. - Top - End - #139
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Shinken's Guide to Melee Warlocks is the closest thing to a Clawlock guide.
    That was linked to already in the "Standing on the Shoulders of Giants" spoiler.

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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Thinblade asked if someone would start a clawlock guide and I meant to say that it had already been done.
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  21. - Top - End - #141
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Thinblade asked if someone would start a clawlock guide and I meant to say that it had already been done.
    Interested to see if Thinblade agrees with the clawlock guide poster's assertions about a glaivelock.
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  22. - Top - End - #142
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Hexblade overview, assuming standard class and not Mike Mearls' suggested fix.

    1st level grants martial weapons, a Will save bump, and 1/day curse based on Charisma and Hexblade level, so not much. 2nd level, however, grants Charisma as a save bonus against all spells and spell-like abilities. 3rd level grants Mettle and is the quickest way to get the full ability from a base class. 4th grants kinda crappy spells and a familiar, but the familiar can be traded for a moving hex that debuffs anything it's adjacent to by -2 AC and -2 saves, so potentially quite useful for both an attack- or save-focused Warlock.

    Quick version: Hexblade 2 and 3 can be very worth it to get bonuses on saves. 4th is the absolute cutoff point to get the moving debuff. The limited spells aren't worth dipping in the class.

  23. - Top - End - #143
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    I saw the link to the clawlock guide in the Shoulders of Giants post; I meant this guide, since it's focus is more on Dragon and other beyond-core material.

    I'll take a look at the clawlock guide and see if I can come up with an opinion, as requested. May be a day or two, though.

  24. - Top - End - #144
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    For taking a 10-ft step in place of a 5-ft, why not utilize the "Sparring Dummy of the Master"? As a UMD class, I'm sure the Warlock would have few problems and 30-days of training for the ability permanently is nothing to scoff at. Especially useful if you have multiple party members that can utilize the item.

    Arms and Equipment Guide.

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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    I agree with shinken that eldritch glaive isn't as well-written as I'd like (so what else is new in 3.5?). However, my read on it is that it does count as a weapon for its duration. The text says, "takes on physical substance" and that you can attack "as if using a reach weapon."

    You still don't get haste, since you're attacking as part of a full round action, but you would be able to use things like power attack, since your EB now has a physical presence that you can hit harder with. It's not actually a glaive, however, so if you had glaive feats you couldn't use them. You'd need the feats for the EB instead.

    That's my read on it, at least. CA already says that you can use ranged combat feats like PBS, so it's we know you can use precision attack and damage bonuses.

    Also, I don't know what his/her deal is with being unsure about the somatic gestures. CA page 71 doesn't get much clearer about the fact that invocations use somatic components.

  26. - Top - End - #146
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    I apologize if this has already been posted, but this is a pretty obscure set of corrections and pro-tips. This isn't really relevant to Warlock builds, but is worthwhile for Incarnate builds who are willing to dip a few levels into Warlock before heading into an Incarnum PrC.

    Magic of Incarnum pg 107 has four Invocations:

    Drain Incarnum (Least): Fort Save deals 1 point of essentia damage. A creature without an essentia pool instead takes 1 point of Wisdom damage. Although this is highly situational, Ooze, Animated Objects, Ochre Jelly, and other similarly oblivious creatures have a Wis of 1, which means that this is a Save or Die effect for them. I wouldn't take it normally. But if you have the floating feat from Chameleon for Extra Invocation, it's worth keeping in mind when you know you're going to be fighting such creatures.

    Incarnum Blast (Greater, Essence): Any living creature whose alignment is opposed to at least one component of yours must Save or be Dazed for 1 round. Other living creatures take normal damage. Those with an essentia pool lose 1 point. And you can invest essentia into this Invocation as if it were a Feat to increase the damage of your Blast by 1d6 per point. (You can invest between 1 and 4 points of essentia, based on your Hit Dice).

    Incarnum Shroud (Dark): Enemies suffer a 20% miss chance against you. You gain 1 point of essentia. And you can invest essentia in the Invocation as if it were a Feat to gain a minor Insight bonus to AC and Fort Saves.

    Steal Incarnum (Lesser): Already described in handbook. You steal essentia for 1 minute.


    The very obscure Incarnate/Warlock essentia trick is:
    • Buy or collect a bag of rats, insects, or other cheap animals.
    • Get a Familiar or Animal Companion.
    • Get access to the Necrocarnum Weapon soulmeld. (Incarnate 1 or the Shape Soulmeld Feat).
    • Open your Hands chakra slot (Incarnate 4, lot of PrC, or a 6th level Feat). Bind Necrocarnum Weapon to it. Now when you hit a living creature with a critical hit, you gain bonus temporary essentia equal to the essentia invested in this soulmeld (probably 1-5 points) for 1 minute.
    • Take the Share Soulmeld Feat. Now your Familiar or Animal Companion gains all of the benefits of your soulmelds.
    • Prior to combat, Coup de Grace one of your rats, giving you bonus essentia.
    • Have your Familiar or Animal Companion Coup de Grace one of your rats, giving it bonus essentia.
    • Use the Steal Incarnum Invocation on your Animal Companion or Familiar.



    Now you have between 4 and 12 points of bonus essentia for the next 8 rounds. Although that doesn't sound like a lot, keep in mind that an Incarnate 20 only gets 26 points of essentia. It should be enough to max out several soulmelds, Incarnum Feats, and/or the Incarnum Blast soulmeld. You can do this any number of times per day, because it's an Invocation.

  27. - Top - End - #147
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Ah, the ever-popular bag of rats. Is there any rule it can't help circumvent? Not quite as classy as the trousers full of snakes, but close.

    Seriously, though, thanks for pointing it out. It's a really, really focused trick, though, and requires a bunch of invocations when you already barely have any. It's good to know, and to include, but I don't see it as something very many warlocks using.

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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    This is a good guide, but why is the paladin listed as a multiclassing possibility at all? It's pretty much the most impossible pair of classes by alignment restrictions--paladins must be lawful good, warlocks must be chaotic or evil.
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWyrmGold View Post
    This is a good guide, but why is the paladin listed as a multiclassing possibility at all? It's pretty much the most impossible pair of classes by alignment restrictions--paladins must be lawful good, warlocks must be chaotic or evil.
    That's a really good question. Chaotic variant paladins are the answer. I think.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    All gaming systems should be terribly flawed and exploitable if you want everyone to be happy with them. This allows for a wide variety of power levels for games for different levels of players.
    I dub this the Snowbluff Axiom.

  30. - Top - End - #150
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    Default Re: The Newest Warlock Handbook [3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Snowbluff View Post
    That's a really good question. Chaotic variant paladins are the answer. I think.
    Any of the paladin variant from UA work. Only the standard paladin does not.
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