afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

[willpell]

A Bag of Holding and Portable Hole work similarly, though I can't remember which of the pair is extradimensional and which is non-dimensional.

Is there a difference? (AfroAkuma already said "no", so I'm asking you directly, or anyone else who has information on the topic.)

[Arcanist]

Well, sending a letter into Ravenloft itself is as "simple" as kicking it into the Mists. It getting where it's going is another matter entirely. Contacting the Dark Powers? Well...that's a riskier proposition. One could always pray, of course, but then you run the risk that they actually answer. Why do you even ask?

Lemme be more clear. Assume that you have just arrived in the Far Realm and the boiling has not begun. Assume that the letter is going precisely where it needs to go (unless the Dark Powers direct it elsewhere). Would the text on the letter be in the intended language (Assume Common) or would the effects of the Far Realm scramble the text?

Another question: Can you recommend a list of Ravenloft material? I've always adored the campaign setting, but could never get into it due to lack of supplies. I have an Amazon account and I'm not afraid to use it!

[willpell]

Another question: Can you recommend a list of Ravenloft material? I've always adored the campaign setting, but could never get into it due to lack of supplies. I have an Amazon account and I'm not afraid to use it!

In particular, were there ever any 3E rules or conversions for it?

[Lord_Gareth]

There are no RAW effects for the Far Realms. However, it should be noted that the Far Realms treats the rules of our universe as as horrific infection that must be expunged at all costs - you know, sort of like we treat them - so it's likely that any attempt to write something would end badly indeed, in the sense that the laws that define your reality would come under immediate and vicious assault.

There's not a lot of 3.X Ravenloft material, and I think Expedition to Castle Ravenloft is 100% of it. 2e has QUITE a bit of material, though, including the Ravenloft Campaign Setting, Islands of Terror, many novels, and more. I'd highly suggest Islands of Terror, which details domains that are isolated away from the Core - many of them are wonderfully unique.

[Larkas]

They are second party, like Dragonlance: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...cery+Ravenloft

[Eldan]

Primus is instantly replaceable. A secundus comes in, wires itself up and poof, Primus. The current Primus is the most powerful and dangerous yet, a legacy of the previous "Primus."

Got anything more on that? I don't, in fact, remember the current Primus ever being mentioned. Only ever the last one, if I'm reading your quotes correctly. Did any of the essence of the last "Primus" survive in the new one?

[willpell]

They are second party, like Dragonlance: http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...cery+Ravenloft

Ah...I'd always wondered what Second Party was.

[afroakuma]

On another note, how equivilant are the varrious exemplar lords, or the exemplar races, in terms of power?

Primus is potentially the most powerful; he's got godly amounts of power, locally warps the planes with his presence and distributes his essence among millions of creatures to prevent actually becoming a god. Last time they were all statted out on par with each other, Primus was at the low end of things.

Ssendam and Ygorl are both exceptionally powerful and dangerous entities, perhaps moreso given their near-complete lack of worshipers. Again, last time they were all statted out in parallel, these two landed much lower down.

Asmodeus is rumored to have power beyond measure; he's certainly individually more powerful than any demon prince. Mephistopheles is also extremely powerful, but it drops off from there.

On the Upper Planes, Zaphkiel and the Celestial Hebdomad are most powerful, followed by Morwel and the Court of Stars, with Talisid and the Five Companions close behind.

Demon princes come in just a bit lower; Demogorgon as Prince of Demons holds the top spot out of all of them, with the power level dropping down quickly from there. The average demon lord is not a serious power compared to any other exemplar lord, but the exceptional ones are good contenders.

Finally, the yugoloth lords. The power of the General of Gehenna is unknown, though it's likely that his personal power is fairly low in comparison to the rest. The Oinoloth is certainly the weakest of the exemplar lords, but he is not the true ruler of the yugoloth race.

In terms of racial strength, it runs demon, devil, modron, eladrin, rilmani, archon, yugoloth, guardinal, slaad. Really should be more of a contest, but what can ya do.

[afroakuma]

Is there a difference? (AfroAkuma already said "no", so I'm asking you directly, or anyone else who has information on the topic.)

afroakuma said "no" because the answer is "no." It's right there in the rules:

A portable hole is a circle of cloth spun from the webs of a phase spider interwoven with strands of ether and beams of starlight. When opened fully, a portable hole is 6 feet in diameter, but it can be folded up to be as small as a pocket handkerchief. When spread upon any surface, it causes an extradimensional space 10 feet deep to come into being. This hole can be picked up from inside or out by simply taking hold of the edges of the cloth and folding it up. Either way, the entrance disappears, but anything inside the hole remains.

The only air in the hole is that which enters when the hole is opened. It contains enough air to supply one Medium creature or two Small creatures for 10 minutes. The cloth does not accumulate weight even if its hole is filled. Each portable hole opens on its own particular nondimensional space.

Equivalency. Terms are both used to refer to the exact same thing. They shouldn't be, but they are.

[willpell]

locally warps the planes with his presence and distributes his essence among millions of creatures to prevent actually becoming a god.

Fascinating...can you elaborate on those points (especially the second) a bit more? He doesn't want to be a god? Why not?

In terms of racial strength, it runs demon, devil, modron, eladrin, rilmani, archon, guardinal, slaad.

The rilmani are in the middle. How sweet.

(Sucks to be the slaadi I guess. I'll have to consider bumping them up for my game, as I like having them be a serious contender. Though having the demons and eladrins both outweigh their Lawful counterparts makes me smile.)

[afroakuma]

Lemme be more clear. Assume that you have just arrived in the Far Realm and the boiling has not begun. Assume that the letter is going precisely where it needs to go (unless the Dark Powers direct it elsewhere). Would the text on the letter be in the intended language (Assume Common) or would the effects of the Far Realm scramble the text?

Another question: Can you recommend a list of Ravenloft material? I've always adored the campaign setting, but could never get into it due to lack of supplies. I have an Amazon account and I'm not afraid to use it!

Well, the Far Realm doesn't necessarily grok "ink" or "paper" or "writing." It's not that the letters would be scrambled, it's that the ink is probably going to attack you and the paper is probably going to unfurl into a miles-long, infinitely thin serpent of the Amoebic Sea while the quill fuses itself to your hand, grows brethren and tries to fly away from you. The Far Realm isn't about single-bit errors; it's about taking 1s and 0s and turning them into Qs, 7s, purples, squids and alephs.

Ravenloft, ah, there's a thing. As Gareth said, there's second-party material printed for 3.X. A lot of the good fluff will be in the 2E material; Ravenloft Campaign Setting and Domains of Dread, Darklords - useful for the masters of the domains. Islands of Terror if you want the complete picture, but it's not necessary. Plenty of competent adventures, which you can adapt.

[afroakuma]

Got anything more on that? I don't, in fact, remember the current Primus ever being mentioned. Only ever the last one, if I'm reading your quotes correctly. Did any of the essence of the last "Primus" survive in the new one?

Gff... there was a citation, I'll need to go digging for it, but basically yes. The previous "Primus" did a real number on the race, caused a lot of disruption, which is why their fire has gone out of the universe (temporarily). When they come back, though, they'll be smarter for it.

[afroakuma]

Fascinating...can you elaborate on those points (especially the second) a bit more? He doesn't want to be a god? Why not?

Worship can change you. Godhood would probably sever him from his collective. There would need to be a new Primus. He's far too orderly to allow for such a disruptive happening.

(Sucks to be the slaadi I guess. I'll have to consider bumping them up for my game, as I like having them be a serious contender. Though having the demons and eladrins both outweigh their Lawful counterparts makes me smile.)

I already did a project to improve the slaad. You can find it with a simple Google search.

[willpell]

Ravenloft, ah, there's a thing. As Gareth said, there's second-party material printed for 3.X. A lot of the good fluff will be in the 2E material; Ravenloft Campaign Setting and Domains of Dread, Darklords - useful for the masters of the domains. Islands of Terror if you want the complete picture, but it's not necessary. Plenty of competent adventures, which you can adapt.

Unfortunately, I don't speak 2E. Not a big deal, I'm somewhat fond of Ravenloft but can live without it.

[Lord_Gareth]

You don't have to speak 2e to adapt or be inspired by the fluff.

[Fable Wright]

How do Demons and Devils view Elder Evils?

And what would it take to actually cripple the forces of Good/Evil/Law/Chaos?

[Lord_Gareth]

And what would it take to actually cripple the forces of Good/Evil/Law/Chaos?

A complete withdrawal of mortal belief from the side being crippled, coupled with an extensive military campaign to crush their weakened forces, destroy their cities, and annihilate any reminders that they ever existed.

Killing Good/Evil/Law/Chaos essentially requires obliterating it as a concept - and that's just to weaken it to the point where it CAN be killed.

[afroakuma]

How do Demons and Devils view Elder Evils?

Well, they kind of are some of them (Sertrous) and endorse others (Leviathan). I hear they even operate one for some Blood War-related purpose, though that may not be canonical. Some silver thing.

All Elder Evils have anathematic secrecy, which prevents demon princes and archdevils (who grant spells) from learning of them. They can backdoor it, of course, but not being able to see the significance of something front and center can cause marginalization.

Beyond that, it's case by case:

• Atropus represents a potential threat to all existence, but on such a slow clock that they ignore it or profit from its actions. Orcus has a reason to be annoyed with it.

• Father Llymic is an entity of the Far Realms, so they react to it like any other. It's a Prime incursion and presumably quite limited in its ultimate grasp.

• The Hulks of Zoretha are beneath notice.

• The Leviathan is also beneath notice, but Demogorgon is pleased to use it.

• Pandorym is a menace to everything; however, they can't really see it or deal with it because of Pandorym's ability to embargo the Planes.

• Ragnorra is beneath notice.

• Sertrous is a concern for a few demon lords who worry about the return of an obyrith lord/rival.

• The Worm That Walks is just Kyuss. Nobody cares.

• If Zargon were what the book claims him to be (he's not), he'd be the thing that most terrifies demons and devils. As is, he's an aggravation to Asmodeus, but nobody else seems to care.

And what would it take to actually cripple the forces of Good/Evil/Law/Chaos?

Define "cripple."

[Fable Wright]

Define "cripple."

Do damage to the side that will never be fully recovered from.

[Eldan]

Unfortunately, I don't speak 2E. Not a big deal, I'm somewhat fond of Ravenloft but can live without it.

Honestly, you don't really need to. I've never read the 2E core books, or played a game of AD&D i nmy life, and I can read Planescape books just fine. They don't really contain all that many rules and stat blocks tend to be very short in comparison to those in 3E. A monster has a number of HD, speeds, intelligence, AC, an attack/damage entry and a short list of special attacks and that's it, followed by a page or more or of fluff. And that's for a monster manual. The setting books can run for pages without including any more rules than a "this deals 2d6 fire damage" or "light spells don't work on this plane" here or there.

[Answerer]

• The Worm That Walks is just Kyuss. Nobody cares.

Can you explain, like, the dismissal here? Why is "just Kyuss" such a known – and insignificant – quantity? Was Kyuss a known entity that got spruced up and a fancy title for Elder Evils or something?

[afroakuma]

Do damage to the side that will never be fully recovered from.

Impossible. You'd need to destroy a whole plane of existence and prevent it from coming back. You can do serious damage, but not permanent damage.

Can you explain, like, the dismissal here? Why is "just Kyuss" such a known – and insignificant – quantity? Was Kyuss a known entity that got spruced up and a fancy title for Elder Evils or something?

Kyuss was a rock band formed in California in 1987. Their last single was released in '96 or thereabouts, and I've never heard any of their music, so yeah, I'ma call Kyuss an insignificant quantity.

Kyuss is also a demigod from Greyhawk whose portfolio includes worms and the creation of the undead. You may have heard of the Age of Worms adventure path - if so, that's Kyuss. He ascended to godhood in one of the derpiest ways imaginable - locking himself in an obelisk instead of, you know, going free to do whatever it is that demigods do.

Anyway, Kyuss is significant enough for a Prime world dealing with The Worm That Walks, but to demons and devils one more or less demigod doesn't really do anything.

[Lord_Gareth]

Other than being assigned or bound there by magic, in what circumstances might an exemplar choose to live on the Prime Material plane long-term (for several centuries or more) or indefinitely?

[Eldan]

Eladrin are free to do that any time they want to, as long as they keep their heads down.

[Aliek]

In terms of racial strength, it runs demon, devil, modron, eladrin, rilmani, archon, yugoloth, guardinal, slaad. Really should be more of a contest, but what can ya do.

Does that weights only the Archs(Archdukes, demon princes and the equivalent from the others) or the race in general?

Also, what about their strongest non-unique representants? Balor against Pit Fiend is a pretty harsh debate, but isn't a Solar clearly stronger than both?

[Chilingsworth]

Eladrin are free to do that any time they want to, as long as they keep their heads down.

Speaking of which, how many published examples of such are there? I've run into one eladin lving on the prime (Celeste, I think her name was.) Any others?

[Menteith]

How would a plane be destroyed, and what would happen to inhabitants of the plane?

[afroakuma]

Does that weights only the Archs(Archdukes, demon princes and the equivalent from the others) or the race in general?

Race in general, deriving from their strongest representatives.

Also, what about their strongest non-unique representants? Balor against Pit Fiend is a pretty harsh debate, but isn't a Solar clearly stronger than both?

Solars are not of any exemplar race. They are angels.

Balors >= Pit Fiends > Secundi > Tulani > Aurumachs > Throne archons > Ultroloths > Leonals > Gray slaad

Edge goes to demons because klurichir, molydeus, marilith.

[afroakuma]

How would a plane be destroyed, and what would happen to inhabitants of the plane?

Demiplanes can be destroyed by collapsing them; typically a feat of powerful magic that relies on the nature of the demiplane itself. If it's a natural demiplane, that's not something you can do. If it's an artificial demiplane, then you need to overcome the power of its creator(s) and maintainer(s). A collapsing demiplane's inhabitants would either be ejected or destroyed in the collapse.

Inner Planes cannot be destroyed. They are fundamental forces. If contaminated, they influence and push back the contamination.

Transitive Planes can be wounded - typically a temporary measure, but the Ethereal is vulnerable to permanent holes in its fabric. As infinite planes, though, they cannot be destroyed by such methods and are functionally indestructible.

Outer Planes cannot be destroyed. They are belief made real.

[afroakuma]

Other than being assigned or bound there by magic, in what circumstances might an exemplar choose to live on the Prime Material plane long-term (for several centuries or more) or indefinitely?

It's not a good idea for any exemplar to remain long-term on the Prime Material. There's a reason the term is "bound" as opposed to "invited" .