afroakuma's Planar Questions Thread! (You ask, I'll answer)

[Zubrowka74]

I'll jump on the Modron wagon and ask this question :

In the PC game Planescape : Torment there is an 8 level spell called Mechanus' Cannon. Aside from the cool visual effect it's a 1d6+1 / caster level (no save!) ray of pure Law. The Cannon is in Mechanus (duh) and the ray is delivered through a gate, hence the cool visuals. Is there any backing to this fluff? Is it... (dare I type it ?) canon ?

[willpell]

This Is Now The Modron Thread Stop You Will Be Incorporated Stop Resistance Is Futile Stop From This Day Forward You Will Service Primus Message Ends

(Apparently the forum disapproves of all-caps speak, so just pretend this reads like a telegram from Mechanus.)

[afroakuma]

So the march never visits the Material Plane?

Never.

Is there a reason for the 17-centric timing, other than that this is the number of outer planes?

Nope, that's pretty much the one.

How long does modron promotion take?

It's near-instantaneous. Call it one round if you'd like.

For example, if a squad (or whatever their units are called) of monodrones and a duodrone leader were fighting something, and the duodrone was killed before all the monodrones were, would one of them be promoted quickly enough to continue the battle?

Yep. Only question is whether or not the promotion will hit one of the monodrones. It very well might, but it doesn't always happen. It's never been reflected in game stats for that reason.

That said, Primus is no fool. He doesn't waste effort on lost causes, and he doesn't delegate more force than would be orderly, but when something big is going on (like the March), promotions are swift and cover as many bases as is useful. When the One and the Prime thinks a bit of extra effort is called for, he can direct a higher modron's energy back into the pool and use the spare slot to do a remote promotion. You could encounter a squad of monodrones and duodrones that suddenly pop a pair of tridrones.

Actually, that makes me think of another question: What do modrons do about "healthcare"? Do modrons even need it? Do any of them even have any healing abilities to speak of?

Some of the hierarchs have positive energy abilities for base modron repair. Forces are maintained whenever possible, especially hierarchs and special castes, but it's purely a pragmatic concern. If a modron is damaged enough to be beyond repair or a replacement would be the more efficient option for the order of Primus, that modron will be ordered back to the energy pool.

Other than being Neutral Good rather than Lawful Good and similar obviousness, what distinguishes angels from the many winged-humanoid Archons?

Angels are powerful servants of gods and the cosmic good. They are messengers (hence the name) and protectors, watchers over all the planes. Angels perform service in surveying and intervening for good across multiple levels: devas watch over the Planes, solars watch over whole crystal spheres and no points for guessing what planetars watch over.

Angels may not look that different, but they are quite unique. Where archons have an aura of menace and are surrounded by a magic circle against evil, angels have a mighty aura of protection. Angels are more vulnerable to electricity, but have more resistances and immunities overall. As servants of the gods, angels go where they are directed by divine means and do not possess the inherent teleport ability of many exemplars, including archons, though devas can plane shift. Angels can change their form to blend in with those they protect, and several have been charged with the ability to raise dead, which is restricted among archons.

Are there any Angels less powerful than the Astral Daeva?

The monadic and movanic devas, who oversee the Ethereal and Elemental Planes and the Energy and Material Planes respectively, are weaker than the astral deva, as is the stellar deva, an unusual celestial that watches over wildspace and the Flow. Below those are the lights, nebulous incorporeal forces of benevolence and kindness, and the agathinon, the heavenly warriors who guard the Upper Planes against physical incursion from the Lower Planes.

Otherwise, I blame a lack of imagination among designers for having that many humanoid-looking angels.

For another point of differentiation, look at the relative shapes of the two. Archons have many animal traits and are more often than not Large. Only three (four) kinds of archon have wings, one of which is an owl and one of which shapes its forearms into burning swords (and is also a giant). All angels have wings, and have solid-color skin of a metallic or enameled quality. They are essentially colored light wearing an artificial shell. Only the two most powerful are Large.

I'll jump on the Modron wagon and ask this question :

In the PC game Planescape : Torment there is an 8 level spell called Mechanus' Cannon. Aside from the cool visual effect it's a 1d6+1 / caster level (no save!) ray of pure Law. The Cannon is in Mechanus (duh) and the ray is delivered through a gate, hence the cool visuals. Is there any backing to this fluff? Is it... (dare I type it ?) canon ?

No. It is a cool spell though.

[Larkas]

Silly question, but do mortals who live in the planes have templates? For example, are humans who live in Mount Celestia celestial humans?

I'm asking this because it might be easier to rationalize half-celestial mortals coming from the union between a celestial and a regular mortal than, say, between a mortal and a exemplar. Not that the latter shouldn't/wouldn't happen, but I guess they should be rarer.

[willpell]

Silly question, but do mortals who live in the planes have templates? For example, are humans who live in Mount Celestia celestial humans?

I'm asking this because it might be easier to rationalize half-celestial mortals coming from the union between a celestial and a regular mortal than, say, between a mortal and a exemplar. Not that the latter shouldn't/wouldn't happen, but I guess they should be rarer.

You wouldn't get a +4 LA half-celestial human from the mating of a +0 LA PMP human and a +2 LA celestial human; it'd be like pouring a cup of sugar into water and then finding two cups of sugar in the bottom. However it's entirely possible that your angel grampaw could have a half-celestial son who's your father, and you're a celestial human because of it, and only your kid would become Planetouched, since that's LA +1. And it'd be highly reasonable to say that the kid of a normal and a celestial might be first-generation Planetouched. (Personally I wouldn't recommend using the as-written celestial and fiendish templates, though; they're pretty bland and nowhere worth adding LA 2 on a human. I keep meaning to homebrew my own version.)

This is all speculation of course; Akuma will know whether there's any canonical basis for it.

[afroakuma]

Silly question, but do mortals who live in the planes have templates? For example, are humans who live in Mount Celestia celestial humans?

No, actually. There are certainly plenty of aasimar who have come home, and quite a few half-celestial whatnots, but perfectly mundane races have made lives on these planes too. In small numbers. Remember that the majority of people you come across in Celestia are quite a bit dead.

[Larkas]

You wouldn't get a +4 LA half-celestial human from the mating of a +0 LA PMP human and a +2 LA celestial human; it'd be like pouring a cup of sugar into water and then finding two cups of sugar in the bottom. However it's entirely possible that your angel grampaw could have a half-celestial son who's your father, and you're a celestial human because of it, and only your kid would become Planetouched, since that's LA +1. And it'd be highly reasonable to say that the kid of a normal and a celestial might be first-generation Planetouched. (Personally I wouldn't recommend using the as-written celestial and fiendish templates, though; they're pretty bland and nowhere worth adding LA 2 on a human. I keep meaning to homebrew my own version.)

This is all speculation of course; Akuma will know whether there's any canonical basis for it.

That makes a LOT of sense, crunch-wise speaking. However, from the Celestial entry in the Monster Manual, we have the following:

Celestial creatures often come in metallic colors (usually silver, gold, or platinum). They can be mistaken for half-celestials, more powerful creatures that are created when a celestial mates with a noncelestial creature.

So apparently, that would seem to be the case! It's kinda poetic, really. The mating of a celestial and a material creature gives rise to a paragon of its kind, stronger than both parents, with both material and celestial essence!

No, actually. There are certainly plenty of aasimar who have come home, and quite a few half-celestial whatnots, but perfectly mundane races have made lives on these planes too. In small numbers. Remember that the majority of people you come across in Celestia are quite a bit dead.

Ooooooh, got it! So one thing doesn't necessarily lead to other, right?

[afroakuma]

So apparently, that would seem to be the case! It's kinda poetic, really. The mating of a celestial and a material creature gives rise to a paragon of its kind, stronger than both parents, with both material and celestial essence!

Mmmexcept wrong, because "celestial" refers collectively to angels, archons, asuras, eladrins and guardinals. Probably a couple of other things too. Opposite of "fiend."

Ooooooh, got it! So one thing doesn't necessarily lead to other, right?

I don't follow.

[Answerer]

He's referring to the Celestial Creature template, and whether or not any creature native to an Upper Plane automatically gets it.

[Larkas]

He's referring to the Celestial Creature template, and whether or not any creature native to an Upper Plane automatically gets it.

This.

[Yora]

As far as I know, Planescape had native humanoid inhabitants of the planes who didn't have any special abilities. But I also think they were like "second generation colonists".

Actually, I was wrong. Humans "native" to the planes and not a material plane can be summoned and banished and count as extraplanar beings for protection from evil spells.

In 3rd Edition, such characters should be "humanoid (extraplanar)" if I remember correctly, without need for a template.

[afroakuma]

He's referring to the Celestial Creature template, and whether or not any creature native to an Upper Plane automatically gets it.

Nope. Celestial creatures only resemble those of the Material Plane. Humans "native" to an Upper Plane don't have the template. Of course, celestial "humans" can also exist, which are humanlike descendants of celestial beings, so there's some confusion possible there. Similarly, there are celestial "halflings" on Celestia, celestial "dwarves" on Arcadia, celestial "elves" on Arborea and celestial "gnomes" on Bytopia. Fiendish "goblins," "orcs," "drow" and the like also exist in the Lower Planes.

[123456789blaaa]

<snip>
(Personally I wouldn't recommend using the as-written celestial and fiendish templates, though; they're pretty bland and nowhere worth adding LA 2 on a human. I keep meaning to homebrew my own version.)

This is all speculation of course; Akuma will know whether there's any canonical basis for it.

There's a nice article on the wizards website here that allows you to customize the half-fiend template. It can be easily adapted to the half-celestial as well.

EDIT: Whoops, misread your post.

[Zubrowka74]

This Is Now The Modron Thread Stop You Will Be Incorporated Stop Resistance Is Futile Stop From This Day Forward You Will Service Primus Message Ends

(Apparently the forum disapproves of all-caps speak, so just pretend this reads like a telegram from Mechanus.)

Someone should make a PSY parody : Modron Style!

[Larkas]

Nope. Celestial creatures only resemble those of the Material Plane. Humans "native" to an Upper Plane don't have the template. Of course, celestial "humans" can also exist, which are humanlike descendants of celestial beings, so there's some confusion possible there. Similarly, there are celestial "halflings" on Celestia, celestial "dwarves" on Arcadia, celestial "elves" on Arborea and celestial "gnomes" on Bytopia. Fiendish "goblins," "orcs," "drow" and the like also exist in the Lower Planes.

Oooooh, got it. Do they come "directly from the head of the Powers", from some kind of Celestial evolution, or neither? Did my question make sense?

[hamishspence]

Nope. Celestial creatures only resemble those of the Material Plane. Humans "native" to an Upper Plane don't have the template. Of course, celestial "humans" can also exist, which are humanlike descendants of celestial beings, so there's some confusion possible there. Similarly, there are celestial "halflings" on Celestia, celestial "dwarves" on Arcadia, celestial "elves" on Arborea and celestial "gnomes" on Bytopia. Fiendish "goblins," "orcs," "drow" and the like also exist in the Lower Planes.

In Fiendish Codex 2 it states that (in the case of fiendish sahaugin and fiendish kobolds) that those are actually what kobold and sahuagin souls devoted to the deities Kurtulmak and Sekolah turn into, after death.

It also has fiendish gnolls (but LE) be what Set's souls can get promoted to.

[Larkas]

In Fiendish Codex 2 it states that (in the case of fiendish sahaugin and fiendish kobolds) that those are actually what kobold and sahuagin souls devoted to the deities Kurtulmak and Sekolah turn into, after death.

It also has fiendish gnolls (but LE) be what Set's souls can get promoted to.

It'd make sense for them to be Petitioners. Is that what they are?

[afroakuma]

It'd make sense for them to be Petitioners. Is that what they are?

It's up to the individual deity what their petitioners are.

[hamishspence]

Petitioners might vary from the standard petitioners seen in MoTP which are Outsiders.

Turning them back into mortals could be some kind of reward or punishment on the part of those deities.

[afroakuma]

Indeed.

My, this thread is huge now.

[Flickerdart]

It's up to the individual deity what their petitioners are.

Is there a god of tarrasques whose petitioners are all tarrasques?

[LOTRfan]

Angels aren't Neutral Good; they can be any good.

And I believe there are at least two varieties that are less powerful than Astral Devas; Monadic Devas (those who keep guard of the Ethereal and Elemental Planes) and Movanic Devas (the weakest of the angels, whose job it is to protect the positive and negatives planes).

EDIT: Oh. Seems that I was reading an earlier part of the thread.

[Kane0]

I think you've already answered this one, but what exactly lives on the Positive energy plane? Are there really immense gardens where souls grow on trees, protected by mighty constructs?

Cause that kind of place sounds pretty badass to me.

[Chilingsworth]

I think you've already answered this one, but what exactly lives on the Positive energy plane? Are there really immense gardens where souls grow on trees, protected by mighty constructs?

Cause that kind of place sounds pretty badass to me.

Naw, just ravids, glimmerskins, and Zag-ya.

Well, also vivacious creatures.

Are there any other published creatures native to the positive energy plane?

[hamishspence]

I think you've already answered this one, but what exactly lives on the Positive energy plane? Are there really immense gardens where souls grow on trees, protected by mighty constructs?

Cause that kind of place sounds pretty badass to me.

The garden did exist in Bastion of Broken Souls, and gets brought up again in Magic of Incarnum.

[LeshLush]

Ashardalon's gotta feast on preincarnate souls somewhere.

[afroakuma]

Is there a god of tarrasques whose petitioners are all tarrasques?

Probably not... but I cannot prove that there isn't.

I think you've already answered this one, but what exactly lives on the Positive energy plane?

Very few things, but see below.

Are there really immense gardens where souls grow on trees, protected by mighty constructs?

Cause that kind of place sounds pretty badass to me.

Yup.

Naw, just ravids, glimmerskins, and Zag-ya.

Well, also vivacious creatures.

Are there any other published creatures native to the positive energy plane?

Apart from the glimmerskins, ravids and xag-ya, there are the spiritovores and an unusual race known as the lumi. Movanic devas survey the plane on occasion and try to spirit good-aligned creatures out of danger where possible.

[ShadowFireLance]

So...Mister Afro...How done, In percentage, Are you with the Epic Post of Demogorgon?

[Arcanist]

Is there a god of tarrasques whose petitioners are all tarrasques?

To expand upon this: Do Tarrasque actually worship anything? Or are they incapable of worshiping anything because of there inherent "love" (are they capable of love?) of destruction?

Under what circumstances does a creature become a Paragon of it's race? If 2 Advanced Super Awesome Dragons get it on will there clutch be Paragon Dragons?

This can be answered by anyone:

Would it be unfair to use the Paragon template outside of Epic Play to stat out Notorious Monsters (See FFXI) or super hunts or whatever you want to call it?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

This can be answered by anyone:

Would it be unfair to use the Paragon template outside of Epic Play to stat out Notorious Monsters (See FFXI) or super hunts or whatever you want to call it?

The Paragon template is really nothing but Moar Numbers!!! (yes, the three exclamation points are mandatory). Paragon creatures are faster, tougher, smarter, and stronger than normal, but they do essentially the same things as their non-paragon counterparts and it's not really worth anywhere near the RAW +15 CR adjustment if your party is at all competent.

I'd say maybe a +5 CR would be more appropriate, and then mostly because of the extra CL and DCs for their SLAs; the incredible SR is a pain, beatstick monsters can be a lot more lethal if they surprise the PCs, and they can take down PC buffs, but golems already get Spell Immunity, beatsticks are easily countered past mid levels, and PCs should have plans for being debuffed anyway.