Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLI

[Vaz]

Is Faerun allowed; specifically Campaign Setting? Sorry I'm still grtting used ti what exactly is 3rd party and what isnt.

[Amphetryon]

Is Faerun allowed; specifically Campaign Setting? Sorry I'm still grtting used ti what exactly is 3rd party and what isnt.

Yup, it is. So is Eberron, though mixing-and-matching between the two within a single entry might make some judges grumpy. The Dragonlance Campaign Setting is also 1st party, but none of the following 'splat' books for DLCS are considered 1st party.

[Seer_of_Heart]

Sorry, but I have a general question. Are we allowed to have XP costs? I know it likely takes away from elegance but it is really useful for my character.

[Dusk Eclipse]

None of my current ideas are really worthwhile and since I return to school next week and won't have much free time, I'm afraid I wont submit an entry this time.

Good luck to the remaining chefs though, I'm rather interested on what you can do.

[Amphetryon]

Sorry, but I have a general question. Are we allowed to have XP costs? I know it likely takes away from elegance but it is really useful for my character.

If you're using a legal source, and willing to accept a possible Elegance or Power hit, yup.

[Seer_of_Heart]

That's good to know I just need to try and build in a way that won't incur xp costs . That's just an acceptable backup for an idea I'm using

[Piggy Knowles]

I highly recommend that, if this is your first time entering, you read back over some previous competitions. Browse the builds but, more importantly, read how the judges responded to them. You can get a good feel for what judges will and won't penalize/bonus for that way - far better than you would just guessing.

That being said, in the end, submit a build you like! I placed silver in my first contest ever, having not read ANY previous entries. Since then I've gone through and read all of them since GitP started hosting them, which has been very educational, but in general, the builds that have done best for me have always been the builds I've had the most fun with. And what's the fun in it, if you spend all your time crafting for the judges rather than for yourself?

[The Viscount]

That being said, take Piggy Knowles' advice with a grain of salt. His case is an exception, as he is a better optimizer than us mortals.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Is Faerun allowed; specifically Campaign Setting? Sorry I'm still grtting used ti what exactly is 3rd party and what isnt.

The distinction between 1st and 3rd party is a very simple and clear one. Was the book published by Wizards of the Coast? If it was it's 1st party and legal for the IC contest. If not, it's 3rd party and disallowed.

For non-book related items, the distinction is whether it was published on the WotC official website.

That's it.

[OMG PONIES]

That being said, in the end, submit a build you like! I placed silver in my first contest ever, having not read ANY previous entries. Since then I've gone through and read all of them since GitP started hosting them, which has been very educational, but in general, the builds that have done best for me have always been the builds I've had the most fun with. And what's the fun in it, if you spend all your time crafting for the judges rather than for yourself?

Words of wisdom.

[Amphetryon]

FYI, Savannah says she has (awesome) trophies in the works for Nightsong Infiltrator and Geomancer.

[GreenSerpent]

FYI, Savannah says she has (awesome) trophies in the works for Nightsong Infiltrator and Geomancer.

Dear lord, now I hope no-one has the same build as me. Even getting into Geomancer was tough for me to work out.

[OMG PONIES]

Any answer on my spell versatility question?

[Amphetryon]

Any answer on my spell versatility question?

I am inclined to your reading as well, though it may well be worthwhile to note the possibilities of a broader reading in the Options section, should you include one (hint: you should include one).

[WinWin]

problem with that interpretation?

-The ability to cast sorcerer/wizard spells in heavy armor

Oh, you're a warmage or dread necromancer? Sucks to be you.

-The ability to spontaneously convert arcane spells to cure/inflict if a cleric

Oh, you're a druid and want to spontaneously cast SNA? You even took the spontaneous healer feat to spontaneously cast cures? lol, not a cleric.

-The ability to use wisdom, intelligence or charisma to set spell DC's

Oh, you're an Illumian and want to use your Constitution? Well you can't any more.

This interpretation of spell versatility clearly ignores the first paragraph describing the ability, in favour of limiting the ability to a handful of rigid examples.

If you're going to expand on that list to include a few more things, but not certain other things...I'm not not even going to finish that sentence.

[Amphetryon]

problem with that interpretation?

-The ability to cast sorcerer/wizard spells in heavy armor

Oh, you're a warmage or dread necromancer? Sucks to be you.

-The ability to spontaneously convert arcane spells to cure/inflict if a cleric

Oh, you're a druid and want to spontaneously cast SNA? You even took the spontaneous healer feat to spontaneously cast cures? lol, not a cleric.

-The ability to use wisdom, intelligence or charisma to set spell DC's

Oh, you're an Illumian and want to use your Constitution? Well you can't any more.

This interpretation of spell versatility clearly ignores the first paragraph describing the ability, in favour of limiting the ability to a handful of rigid examples.

If you're going to expand on that list to include a few more things, but not certain other things...I'm not not even going to finish that sentence.

You're going to have to clarify what your complaint is, here.

[Vaz]

Hence the Elegance Score. Assuming that your build will work when there's potential for dispute could result in penalties.

It would be "safer" to make the build in regards to scoring; especially if your Build relies on said interpretation. However in an adaptations section, you could include the interpretration of how said built and why it does whatever it does.

I take it they mean something along the lines of why suggest its open ended, and then make it an exhaustive list of exactly what can be transferred. His example as a any non Arcane Wiz/Sor caster is still subject to Arcane Spell Chancr Failure.

[Seer_of_Heart]

I'm super excited for my main build , I'm 99% sure all I'm using is now RAW legal. Its not exactly beautiful but it works very well considering that. Although I need to devote some time to my other build

[Vaz]

Same; it is my first challenge and first dedicated spellcaster, and couldn't stop giggling like a toddler when I realised I could actually get it to work.

[WinWin]

You're going to have to clarify what your complaint is, here.

Limiting the capabilities of Spell Versatility to the examples provided would be asanine, but acceptable.

Expanding the capabilities of spell versatility to include some things, but not others, is unacceptable.

Or you could treat spell versatility as "When the geomancer casts spells, he can mix or match spellcasting parameters from any of his classes to gain the maximum possible advantage for a spell with a spell level equal to or less than his spell versatility score." That would not only be acceptable, but an accurate reading of the ability.

I don't care if you run with the first interpretation, or the third, proper interpretation of the ability. The second interpretation is unacceptable.

[GreenSerpent]

Mine involves a sprinkling of (thematically appropriate!) cheddar, but other than that is really quite nice~

I even think I managed to pull the fluff together okay!

[123456789blaaa]

I know it's a little premature but I think the Devoted Defender Prc from Sword and Fist would make a great SI. It has unique and flexible abilites (and no /per day abilities).

What do you guys think?

[OMG PONIES]

Limiting the capabilities of Spell Versatility to the examples provided would be asanine, but acceptable.

Expanding the capabilities of spell versatility to include some things, but not others, is unacceptable.

Or you could treat spell versatility as "When the geomancer casts spells, he can mix or match spellcasting parameters from any of his classes to gain the maximum possible advantage for a spell with a spell level equal to or less than his spell versatility score." That would not only be acceptable, but an accurate reading of the ability.

I don't care if you run with the first interpretation, or the third, proper interpretation of the ability. The second interpretation is unacceptable.

The confusion lies in what constitutes a spellcasting parameter (a term undefined in the D&D texts, as far as I know). Are the items listed examples of parameters, or resultant from the preceding line and therefore the only defined parameters? If I recall correctly, "thus" can be used to signify either and we are unaware of the writer's intent.

[123456789blaaa]

We already have fluid definitions anyways with the four judging category's. How is this any different? I think that making the items listed only examples of parameters would increase the creativity of the resulting builds.

[A_S]

I think it's totally clear from the description of the ability that, at the very least:

• Whether the spell is subject to ASF
• What attribute determines the spell's save DC
• Whether the spell uses material components or a divine focus
• and, whether the spell can be used to power spontaneous casting of another spell

...are all "spellcasting parameters" and can be swapped among any casting classes you have, not just sorc/wiz, druid, and cleric. This, I think, is what was meant by "only the examples are spellcasting parameters." The notion that, for instance, bard casting wouldn't be able to ignore ASF because only sorc/wiz is mentioned, seems implausible to me, and grossly contradicts the "any of his classes" clause in the description of the ability.

I think what we can argue about, and what would be a totally valid target for an elegance hit, would be whether properties of spellcasting that aren't mentioned (like whether a spell is a valid target for DMM, for instance) count as "spellcasting parameters."

[Venger]

(like whether a spell is a valid target for DMM, for instance) count as "spellcasting parameters."

I agree that this would be a productive thing for us to get an official ruling on.

[A_S]

I agree that this would be a productive thing for us to get an official ruling on.

I think it's the kind of thing Amph just told us to use the Options section for. Which is fine by me.

[WinWin]

Parameter: A factor that defines a system or sets the conditions of it's operation.

[Muggins]

Is a mere Pixie qualified to participate? I can't find anything to say otherwise.

[Vaz]

I believe it's free to entry to anyone :). Although a Pixie Geomancer could be pretty interesting.

Edit; As for the ruling, I am perfectly happy to leave it to the judges within the four flexible categories.

If you are a one trick pony then you'll be lose Power for not being particularly flexible. If you require trickery to get access to that single trick, then you'll lose Elegance.

I have come up on a Sweet Spot in my build; to increase it's power without changing the build requires some fairly indepth reading and explanation, which could be considered dubious abuse of a poorly worded rule that would rarely, if ever, come up outside of the build. Hence, I make the sweet spot the focus of the build, and include a paragraph about how the inclusion of this potential "abuse" of the rule increases your power.

A Full Geomancer is at least a Tier 3 class, possibly lower depending on your choice of Arcane/Divine and how you allocate the spell levels, but aside from the loss of a couple of spell levels, it's a perfectly capable class that you shouldn't have to resort to tricks/cheese to make a strong character. As for Flavour and Backstory, and Elegance; and all the other things, these come from the ability to sell a story to the reader (the judge). If you can't do this, while tying in his abilities, you wouldn't do particularly well in an Iron Chef regardless of how well invested and powerful your Batman-esque Character is.

Power isn't everything. yes, it makes up a good deal of the points, and an underpowered character will lose points, but the Geomancer is a spellcaster and unless you only advance your Class by randomly rolling, and picking abilities blind, you can't really go wrong; especially as the later drift allows it to do a bit of melee damage as well, in a pinch at least.