Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground XLI

[DonutBoy12321]

Darn, I found this too late. I think I have a really good build for this, but submissions ended a while ago. Oh well.

[Muggins]

with 17 theurges to taste, it's the only way we'll get even one judging.

Even then, the Geomancer's a pretty sloppy theurge. Just saying.

[Vaz]

Care to explain why? Some fairly powerful builds out there.

[Amphetryon]

Care to explain why? Some fairly powerful builds out there.

Particularly given the material available when Geomancer (3.5 version) was released, it was relatively difficult to enter without multiple casting Classes, and make both casting Classes stand out, let alone maintain a casting curve on par with a single-Class Character.

[Piggy Knowles]

It probably wouldn't score too well in an Iron Chef contest, since it would get hammered for not completing the SI and it needs either flaws or an Otyugh Hole to work, but I was messing around with geomancers some more and came up with the following:

Human, Ex-Paladin 1/Blackguard 10/Nar Demonbinder 1/Geomancer 8

1- Power Attack, Cleave
Flaw/Otyugh Hole- Iron Will
3- Improved Sunder
6- Spell Focus (Conjuration)
9- Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
12- Arcane Strike
15- Divine Might
18- Awesome Smite

+17 BAB, 4th-level divine spells, 8th-level arcane spells, +3d6 sneak attack, aura of despair, command undead, a fiendish mount that's actually based on character level rather than class level, an imp familiar, four smites per day (plus Awesome Smite fun), Charisma-SAD, etc. Drift choices would be used to seem more demonic (bat wings, flowers wilting, etc.), but would also be nice to pick up secondary natural weapon attacks, Improved Grab, etc.

With flaws, could pick up Craven and/or Staggering Strike, too.

Not saying it's anything earth-shattering, but I think it could be a fun take on a geomancer. It would be fun to play in a game that started at higher levels.

[Vaz]

Swap improved sunder out and take a weapon with Improved Sunder instead, it is a +1 weapon enchantment.

[Piggy Knowles]

Swap improved sunder out and take a weapon with Improved Sunder instead, it is a +1 weapon enchantment.

I'm not a huge fan of qualifying for PrCs with items. It would be especially bad in this case - if you lose the item you become an ex-paladin 11, which is pretty terrible. And you then also no longer qualify for nar demonbinder or geomancer... big potential issues there.

[OMG PONIES]

I'll throw my hat in as a judge this go round. I've been a lurker for a while and it's about time I contributed.

Welcome and thank you! Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

[Amphetryon]

How are we coming along, judge(s)?

[Darkcouch]

How are we coming along, judge(s)?

I've finished tasting, but still need to deal with formating and make my notes coherent.

[Kuulvheysoon]

I've finished tasting, but still need to deal with formating and make my notes coherent.

Awesome.

I'm surprised that there's been no speculation as to the next ingredient, though.

I'm betting a non-caster, to make up for the fact that this SI was a 'full caster'. Hopefully something like Shadow Sun Ninja, Ravager, Mountebank or Planar Champion.

[123456789blaaa]

If were going with non-casters than I'd really like Primeval. There's a lot of room for customization and flavor in that Prc.

[The Viscount]

Your efforts are greatly appreciated Darkcouch.

If we're speculating on the next IC, I'm expecting something really bad, after we were allowed to work with full casting. Perhaps something like Fleet Runner of Elhonna. Perhaps we'll get something decent but non-casting, like Ghost-Faced Killer.

[Gotterdammerung]

I'm looking forward to eventually exhausting all generic prestige classes so we can move into some of the juicy setting specific prestige classes. Eberron's Thief of Life is fluffy and interesting for instance. Or any of the terrible fluff prestige classes in the forgotten realms would make awesome IC rounds.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I hope it is a martial class, Primeval does sound fun.

[Kuulvheysoon]

If were going with non-casters than I'd really like Primeval. There's a lot of room for customization and flavor in that Prc.

I hope it is a martial class, Primeval does sound fun.

Unfortunately (for y'all), I rather doubt that it'll make it as the SI anytime soon as it has it's own Handbook.

[Piggy Knowles]

I've been waiting for Thief of Life for ages. One of my favorite PrCs thematically, but it's so bad...

The terrible non-casting PrC that I've been fearing and hoping for in equal measures is the Eye of Gruumsh.

[OMG PONIES]

Judges and people guessing at the next Ingredient? Now this is what an Iron Chef thread looks like!

If we're speculating on the next IC, I'm expecting something really bad...

There is no bad ingredient, only one the optimization community hasn't bent over our collective knee yet.

[8wGremlin]

I've been waiting for Thief of Life for ages. One of my favorite PrCs thematically, but it's so bad...

The terrible non-casting PrC that I've been fearing and hoping for in equal measures is the Eye of Gruumsh.

Funny I built a thief of life just the other day

tabitha, thief of life

[Venger]

I'd absolutely love mountebank, primeval, or thief of life. mountebank's my number one though. I've got an excellent idea in mind for one.

[Amphetryon]

As of this posting, I don't think the next one's been named.

[Venger]

Unfortunately (for y'all), I rather doubt that it'll make it as the SI anytime soon as it has it's own Handbook.

given the completeness of that handbook, I wouldn't say that really hurts primeval's chances. the thing that's talked about in the most depth is the list of possible forms, but there are realistically only a handful people would pick anyway. besides, the entry methods he discusses are not that likely for iron chef, they're too obvious.

[Darkcouch]

OK, Lets get with the judging.

A few preliminaries:

• I started out with a base of 3 then added or subtracted from there.
• If a dish did not qualify for a specific feat or prestige I treated it as if it did not have the abilities for which it did not qualify unless it was an easy fix. I will mention the easy fixes.
• I took a fairly strict reading of alter self/polymorph/shapechange with a sprinkling of common sense (I know, what is common sense doing in a D&D discussion). The errata for alternate form says:
  

  The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian's rage class feature).

  You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).

  And the discription of drift says:
  

  Each drift of stage 2 and beyond grants a permanent extraordinary ability. Natural attacks allow for Strength bonuses on damage rolls, except in the case of poison and acid.

  I am assuming that when you change into a new form that does not have the required body part for a particular attack (ie antlers for a gore) you do not get that attack and if the new form already gets the same form of attack (ie a dragon's claw attack with the eagle talon drift) you do not get to double up.
• Please let me know of any inconsistencies or math errors.

Fugi San 15

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Originality: 4

• I did not expect marshal(+.5), goliath(+.5), or a divine bard that did not go into Sublime Chord(+.5)
• I did expect wu jen(-.5)

Power: 3.25

• extra damage/attack with arcane strike(+.25)
• without +stat gear or books Fugi can learn no spells higher than 4th and (alter/poly has a good chance of making equipment nonfunctional)(-.5)
• good grapple check with extra constriction on every attack(+.5)
• sub par BAB to initiate main shtick but once you've got them grappled you are ok(-.25)
• no 9ths but decent highish lvl spells and buffs to play around with(+.25)

Elegance: 3.5

• qualified for all classes and feats(+1)
• level progression was a little sloppy but made sense mechanicaly and 2 dips(-.75)
• octopus familiar with mountain ley lines(-.25)
• feat choices were timely and increase power(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4.25

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used but not to fullest potential(+0)
• ley lines mentioned (+.25)
• better bab and hps for caster type(+.25)
• spell versatility used for SAD CHA(+.25)
• utilize improved grab and wolfs trip but wings, antlers, lion paws, and tail only utilized when not altered/polymorphed(+.25)

Meepo 12.5

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Originality: 3

• was not expecting Hexblade(+.5)
• wasn't expecting kobald but venerable dragonwraght is known cheese(+0)
• was expecting Divine Crusader(-.5)

Power: 2.25

• you are a fighter without the feats and lower bab(-.5)
• no addition to weapon damage via anything, including strength, except minor buffs(-.5)
• you do get 9ths, but very few and all other known spells are defensive in nature(+.25)
• clone is nice as a distraction or flanking buddy, but minimal if any damage due to low strength(+0)

Elegance: 3.5

• you use venerable cheese and an extreme dump stat(-.5)
• qualifies for feats and classes(+1)
• simple class progression base class prestige to new prestige(+.5)
• feat choices don't lend themselves to class abilities you are gaining(-.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 3.75

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned (+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps(+.25)
• trip doesn't make sense for a small character with little to no strength. You claws and bite give extra attacks but little to no damage. Scent and flight can be useful and you help out your poor reflex save(+0)
• spell versatility gets no benefit except hexblade spells in armor, but can only use light armor, CHA based casting on both base casters(-.25)

Dread Roberts 14.75

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Originality: 4.5

• expected Sublime Chord(-.5)
• didn't expect ranger, spellsword, abjurant champion, or blackguard(+2)

Power: 4.75

• you're a sun giant all day(+.5)
• buffing potential(+.25)
• 9ths(+.25)
• dmm cheese(+.5)
• decent bab of 15(+.25)

Elegance: 1.75

• understand the class progression & choices but dip heavy(-1)
• don't qualify spellsword due to medium and heavy armor proficency, could use duskblade instead of ranger, switching the dip to lvl 3 and realocating some skill points(-.5)
• qualify for all feats(+.5)
• feats qualify you for prestiges of which you don't really use class features(-.5)
• bab calculated wrong and only net 15 bab at 20(-.25)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 3.75

• didn't complete the SI, but could have still netted 16 bab if you dropped from 9 to 8 lvls(-.5)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned (+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps(+.25)
• utilize pounce, but wings and antlers only utilized in some polymorphed forms. Scent, eagle eyes, and rat eyes are situationaly useful(+0)
• spell versatility gets SAD CHA and casting in heavy armor plus increase CL(+.5)

Neewa 15.5 16.5

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Originality: 4.5

• wasn't expecting binder, anima mage, or flying monkey(+2)
• expected shair(-.5)

Power: 5

• persistant poyl/wraithstrike goodness(+1.5)
• 9ths(+.5)
• binding goodies(+.5)
• and on top of that you can be the party face(+.5)

Elegance: 3 4

• you used a flaw(-1)
  
• you don't qualify for Anima Mage because you can't cast 2nd lvl arcane. You can use the versitile spellcaster trick, but don't know any 2nds. If you took Heighten instead of Extend you could then qualify(-.5) Qualify for all classes(+.5)
• you don't specificly qualified for Geomancer but you have point available and could easily(0)
• you qualify for feats(+.5)
• classes flow nicely bases to prestige to additional prestige(+.5)
• feat choices flow nicely and leave 3(2 if you take heighten) free for extra power(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 3

• didn't complete the SI and feels more like a Anima Mage build than a Geomancer build. You could have used most any full casting prestige and prob got more benifit.(-.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned (+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps(+.25)
• utilize trip and Diplomacy bonus, but claws and rakes only usable in some polymorphed forms(0)
• I don't see you using spell versatility at all(-.5)

Geto 18.25

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Originality: 3.5

• wasn't expecting node magic(+.5)

Power: 5

• its cleric but better(+.75)
• 9ths and 5ths(.75)
• dmm cheese and node casting cheesier(+1)
• neigh unkillable(+.5)

Elegance: 5

• earliest entry(+.5)
• qualifies for all feat and classes(+1)
• smooth class progression, main class to prestige but a small hicup to grab secondary casting before finishing prestige(+.25)
• feat choice and timing make since(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4.75

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths and 5ths(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned and match with nodes nicely(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps for a double caster(+.25)
• boar's ferocity, scent/blind sense/tremor sense utilized well, while thorns, fishgills can but situationaly useful(+.5)
• spell versatility not used at all until 13 but pumps Sorc CL nicely thereafter while allowing him to cast in armor and makes you SAD CHA and use arcane slots for heals. If you took Sorcerer before Geomancer you would be able to utilize your better CHA through more of your career and take a very small hit to power(+.25)

Me'un!tii 17.5 17.75

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Originality: 3.25

• wasn't expecting duskblade or darfallen(+1)
• was expecting divine crusader and knowledge devotion(-.75)

Power: 4.5

• 9th with a 16 bab, gishy goodness(+.5)
• chanelling harm/vampiric and a full itterative pounce(+.5)
• decent defensive capabilities(+.25)
• knowledge devotion, collector of stories cheese(+.25)

Elegance: 4.75 5

• you don't no qualify sickening grasp because you don't have 3rd lvl spells yet. Switching Sickening Grasp and Practiced Spellcaster is easily done and pumps up your CL that much sooner(-.5)
• qualifies all classes(+.5)
• smooth progression, base to prestige to prestige which accentuates the base class(+.5)
• I don't see your logic for progressing duskblade before divine crusader is finished. If you can explain your logic I might be willing to adjust(-.25)(0)
• feat choice and timing make since(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 5

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps for a double caster(+.25)
• utilized all you drifts well(+.5)
• spell vers lets you go SAD CHA and lets you ditch your focus and pump your duskblade CL(+.5)
• fits theme well and you get a couple things you couldn't have gotten using other prestige(+.25)

Lo-Kag 17.75

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Originality: 3.75

• wasn't expecting goliath, earth dreamer, or grave "digging"(+1.5)
• was expecting shair and knowledge devotion(-.75)

Power: 5

• double 9ths and lost of them(+1)
• poly cheese(+.5)
• grave "digging" for survivability(+.5)
• knowledge devotion, collector of stories cheese(+.25)

Elegance: 5

• you qualify for all feats and classes(+1)
• smooth progression, base to prestige to the next prestige you qualified for to finishing the first prestige(+.5)
• smart feat choices at about right levels, but would like to see still spell earlier(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned and your home is a particular mountain(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps for a double caster(+.25)
• utilize constrict, grab, blindsense and diplomacy well and your bite and tremorsense are useful most of the time but your claws are only usable in some polymorphed forms(+.25)
• using spell versatility you need no material components and you can cast in armor but have no profecencies. You are single casting class(-.25)

Xien Ha Feng 14.5

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Originality: 4

• wasn't expecting archivist, neraph, or incantrix(+1.5)
• was expecting wu jen(-.5)

Power: 4.5

• 9ths(+.5)
• poly cheese and persist cheese(+1)
• boby outside body/incant cheese(+.5)
• your doing a lot of melee, but are relatively frail(-.5)

Elegance: 2.25

• you don't qualify for incantrix because you don't have 3rd lvl arcanes can be fixed by taking your first lvl of Geomancer before going into Incantrix(-.5)
• just mentioning otyugh hole as a fix for not having Iron Will nets you a deduction(-.5)
• needing specific equipment(-.5)
• you qualify for all feats(+.5)
• I don't understnad the logic behind the 4th lvl of wu jen(a dead lvl). Going 3 lvls of Wu jen and getting and extra lvl of Incantrix or other prestige makes more sense.(-.25)
• feat choices make sense and have a few unallocated for extra power(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 3.75

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines not mentioned other than the leveling table(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps(+.25)
• utilize pounce, grab and poison but antlers, horn, rake, and claws are only usable in some polymorphed forms(0)
• the trick you explain in chapter 1 is bogus an arcane spell is still arcane and a divine spell is still divine you are only certain perameters by which you cast them(0)
• your classes use the same casting stat so all you get from spell versatility is the ability to cast in medium armor(-.25)

Lou Green 17.5

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Originality: 5

• wasn't expecting sorcerer, sentinal of Bharrai, Holt Warden or azurin(+2)

Power: 5

• VOP cheese with extra natural weapons(+1)
• druid and it's alternate class/ability cheese(+.5)
• good survivablity(+.25)
• you are a fast sob and and undead blender(+.25)
• you get 8ths but can't cast in bear form unless I'm missing something(0)

Elegance: 3.5

• you don't qualify for Sentinal of Bharrai but can fix it by switching Vow of Obediance and Ituitive strike(-.5)
• swift hunter druid is the only alternate from UA that I wouldn't allow in my game because you are getting so much that is front end loaded and only giving up Wild Shape. That being said it is from an official source so no deduction(0)
• qualify for all feats(+.5)
• class progression make sense you jump around a little and have a couple duplicate abilities(0)
• feat choices make sense for power and theme(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting utilized well even if you don't get 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps(+.25)
• utilize pounce and speed but antlers, wings, stinger, lion claws only useful when not in bear form(-.25)
• spell versatility gets you SAD WIS and spontantious arcane slots to plant domain spells(+.25)

Verdant 16

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Originality: 3.5

• didn't expect a warforged or landforged walker(+1)
• did expect wu jen(-.5)

Power: 4.25

• plantform shenanigans(+.5)
• 9ths(+.5)
• CoDzilla and it's buffs(+.5)
• delayed casting and slightly frail in early levels(-.25)

Elegance: 4.5

• qualifies for all feats and classes(+1)
• classes flow well other than the purely mechanical first Geo lvl to get prereq feat when you could have switched Earth spell and skill focus and gone straight into Landforged walker(+.25)
• reasonable feat selection and timing(+.25)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 3.75

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting utilized to get 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines +1 in 3 different terrain isn't optimal but understandable for a roaming entity(.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps and fits thematically(+.25)
• utilizes web, trip, and pounce well, but wings, bite and claws are only useful in certain plantforms(0)
• spell versatility is only used for the 1st lvl wu jen spells that you didn't even mention(-.25)

Borrower of Magic 13

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Originality: 3

• wasn't expecting illumian, human paragon, or spell thief(+1.5)
• was expecting ur priet, sublime chord, and wu jen(-1.5)

Power: 5

• get 9ths and 2 lvls early(+1)
• buffs and bardic stuff(+.5)
• consumptive cheese(+.5)
• Your CL isn't nearly as high as you propose. According to my calculations your CL to all your arcane classes is 12(4+2+1+1+1 effective class lvls of casting + 3 sigal) due to master spellthief and your urpriest cl is 20(10 ur + 9/2 effective class lvls or other casters + 3 sigil + 3 practiced(limited due to HD))(0)

Elegance: 1

• using otyugh hole(-1)
• you used one or more extra skill points at every level(-.25)
• when you don't have those extra skill points you no longer qualify for Sublime Chord(-.5)
• you used able learner and adaptive learning give same benifit as able learner and you don't even take the UMD skill(-.75)
• dip, dip, dip, dip, dip(-1.5)
• qualified for all feats(+.5)
• feats flow nicely & good choices, Improved sigil Krau for increased spell lvl was money(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths and early(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps(+.25)
• utilize cheetah speed and blood like sap can be useful but pounce is somewhat of a waste with only 2 iteratives and the rest you even said were afterthoughts(-.5)
• spell versatility gets you better CL and SAD WIS plus you don't need material components(+.5)

Abelard 15.75 16.75

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Originality: 3.5

• wasn't expecting duskblade or artificer(+1)
• was expecting divine crusader(-.5)

Power: 4 4.5

• see elegance I treated you as having the Luck domain as you stated was your base domain pick(0)
• you do get 9ths but few of them and all other spells are defensive in nature(+.25) (+.5)
• you can make wonderous items but they cost xp after you use up your craft reserve(+.25)
• decent melee with channeled spells in your weapon(+.25)
• decent survivability(+.25)
• Potential poly and persist cheese, but takes and hour to reload spells every time you switch domains(+.25)

Elegance: 3.5 4

• Geomancer's casting section says:

  At each geomancer level, the character gains new [b]spells[/] per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which he belonged before adding the prestige class.

  Therefore it can't add to artificer(-.5)
• used able learner(-.5)
• qualify for classes and feats(+1)
• reasonable class progression other than breaking up the artificer lvls(+.25)
• feat choices make sense though some are only useful a short time and give 1/days(+.25)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4.75

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths and could get more duskblade casting(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned but like the casting can't be applied to Artificer infusions(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps(+.25)
• utilize antlers blindsense, and wings well and grab, scent and gills can be situational useful(+.25)
• spell versatility nets you better CL, SAD CHA, casting in heavy armor(+.5)

Adishesha 17.75

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Originality: 3.5

• wasn't expecting nar deamonbinder(+.5)

Power: 5

• imperious command cheese(+.5)
• an army of cyst warriors(+.5)
• can cast a 9th(+.5)
• blasphamy and misc buffs(+.5)

Elegance: 4.75

• qualify for all feats and classes(+1)
• inventive entry it SI via nar deamonbinder(+.25)
• base class to prestige to SI but break up the nar lvls(+.25)
• feats flow nicely and make sense other than divine power(+.25)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4.5

• all levels used(+.25)
• effectively only 4/10 lvls were used to progress casting you could have had 7th cleric casting with no CL change(-.25)
• ley lines mentioned(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps and good flavor(+.25)
• all of your chosen drifts contribute nicely to the build(+.5)
• spell versatility nets you a better CL, SAD CHA, casting in armor, and spontaneous domain casting with arcane spells(+.5)

Bjorn 18.5

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Originality: 4.5

• wasn't expecting spirit shaman, beguiler, or sentinel of Bharrai(+1.5)

Power: 5

• CODzilla(+.5)
• 9ths(+.5)
• perm bear form with casting and melee presence(+.75)
• you protect the plants and animals with selective destruction n your spells(+.25)

Elegance: 4.5

• used able learner(-.5)
• qualifies for all feat and classes(+1)
• smooth class progression base classes to prestige to next prestige(+.5)
• feat choices make sense and come on at about the right levels to be useful(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4.5

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines only mentioned in your table(0)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps and good flavor(+.25)
• utilize pounce, trip, poison and blindsense well and can possibly benefit for the rakes but you can only utilize the bite until you start staying in bear form(+.5)
• spell versatility nets you SAD INT and a better CL on your few 1st lvl arcanes(+.25)

Stone Temple Pilot 15.75

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Originality: 3.5

• wasn't expecting Neraph(+.5)

Power: 4.75

• CODzilla(+.5)
• 9ths(+.5)
• shapechange/alter shape cheese(+.5)
• you are fast and hard to hit(+.5)
• delayed casting and fairly weak melee early on, getting to the mid level is going to be rough(-.25)

Elegance: 3.25

• you don't qualify for arcane strike because you can't cast 3rd arcane(assuming Geomancer is advancing druid because there is not casting chart)(-.5)
• I'm not sure I understand the logic of getting Practiced spellcaster(wiz) when you end up using your druid CL for wizard spells(-.25)
• swift hunter druid is the only alternate from UA that I wouldn't allow in my game because you are getting so much that is front end loaded and only giving up Wild Shape. That being said it is from an official source so no deduction(0)
• qualify for all classes(+.5)
• smooth class progression bases to prestige to more base(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4.25

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps and good flavor(+.25)
• utilize rage, trip and poison well but talons, gore, and wings can only be used in some forms(0)
• spell versatility nets you better CL on alter shape and SAD WIS(+.25)

Schrodinger 16.25

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Originality: 3.5

• wasn't expecting monk, assassin or dragon diciple(+1.5)
• was expecting wu jen and ur priest(-1)

Power: 5

• 9ths and way early(+1)
• alter self cheese(+.5)
• exrta 9ths(+.5)
• survivability(couterspell, wis to AC)(+.25)

Elegance: 3.25

• use able learner(-.5)
• qualify for all feats and classes(+1)
• monk and assasin dips(-.75)
• feat choices flow nicely(+.5)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4.5

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths and way early(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps and good flavor(+.25)
• utilize trip, scent, poison and blindsense well, gills can be usefull situationally, but the bite overlaps with an ability you get at lvl20 and can only be used in some forms(+.25)
• spell versatility nets you increased CL on alter self and SAD WIS(+.25)

Sweet Brown 15.75

Spoiler

Show

Originality: 5

• wasn't expecting sorcerer, paladin of slaughter, spellsword, or escalation mage(+2)
• didn't expect kobald but a venerable dragonwrought loredrake is known cheese(0)

Power: 4.75

• dragonwrought loredrake kolad cheese(+.5)
• 9ths(+.5)
• alter self cheese(+.5)
• buffs(+.25)
• If battle blessings applied to all your spells it would take you over the top, however a paladin spell is a spell from the paladin list(0)

Elegance: 1.75

• correct me if I'm wrong, but I calculate a 35 point buy(-.25)
• you don't qualify sanctum spell because you don't have a metamagic feat and therefore you don't qualify for spellsword or Geomancer either, there's not an easy way to fix this without taking a flaw(-1.5)
• build folws realtively well, but might be a little cleaner if use escalation mage on front end pushing practice spellcaster to lvl 3 and doing away with Sanctum Spell, however you would still need the missing metamagic feat to get in(+.25)
• feats and abilites make sense but could be timed a bit better(+.25)

Use of Secret Ingrediant: 4.25

• all levels used(+.25)
• casting advancement used to gain 9ths(+.25)
• ley lines mentioned(+.25)
• maintain a decent BAB and hps and good flavor(+.25)
• utilized pounce and trip well, gills are situational useful, but antlers, horn, and wings can only be used in some forms(0)
• spell versatility nets you casting in heavy armor, and improved CL and SAD CHA for your 1 pally spell(+.25)

[Kuulvheysoon]

Nicely done, Darkcouch!

This is what I like to see - reasoning behind your scores, but most importantly, judging everybody on the same criteria.

I do have to say - you expected Wu Jen? I was surprised that there were so many. Why did you expect them, if you don't mind my asking?

[Amphetryon]

First query for the judge:

Darkcouch cites as evidence for his reading of polymorph abilities the errata for the Alternate Form ability. However, neither Alter Self nor Polymorph reference the Alternate Form ability (that's Wild Shape that does), and Alter Self explicitly says:

You keep all extraordinary special attacks and qualities derived from class levels

Polymorph references Alter Self, inheriting this text. Therefore, both abilities explicitly retain Drift natural attacks.

From Me'Un!tii:

My reasons for switching which spellcasting to advance is simple - advance divine until I can snag harm, then switch over to get access to vampiric touch ASAP.

[8wGremlin]

Removed to PM instead....

thanks for telling me etiquette

[Kuulvheysoon]

REDACTED

You should edit/delete your post and send all appeals to Amph, in order to maintain anonymity.

Much like Me'un!tii and whoever sent the polymorph/alter form concerns.

[123456789blaaa]

Unfortunately (for y'all), I rather doubt that it'll make it as the SI anytime soon as it has it's own Handbook.

Both Assassin and Pyrokineticist have handbooks so there's a precedent.

I've been waiting for Thief of Life for ages. One of my favorite PrCs thematically, but it's so bad...

The terrible non-casting PrC that I've been fearing and hoping for in equal measures is the Eye of Gruumsh.

I dunno about EoG. Would there be that much variety in builds?

I wonder what action the Blinding Spittle ability takes?

[Amphetryon]

From Verdant:

From Verdant.

A small point regarding the score of 0 for "wings are only useful in certain plantforms".

As far as my knowledge extends the only flying plantform I know of is the Sporebat. The Octopus Tree, Ironmaw, Warbound Impaler, Saguaro Sentinel and all the other good grapple/damage forms have no flight capability and have low movement speed.

Flight from Drift 5 greatly improves their movement capabilities and as such I feel a score of 0 here is overly critical due to the increased mobility this brings. In addition the bite is more useful due to poison milking and Venomfire useage (as Warforged are more-or-less immune to poison and plants are completely immune it allows him to coat himself in poison in order to augment his grapples).

Plus, y'know, flying cactus coated in poisonous spikes that bites people.

And from Neewa:

Excellently done, thank you for taking the time and effort to look over ALL these builds...

but I have to disagree with the judges on a point in my build... (can I do that? make an appeal?)

Quote:
you don't qualify for Anima Mage because you can't cast 2nd lvl arcane. You can use the versitile spellcaster trick, but don't know any 2nds. If you took Heighten instead of Extend you could then qualify(-.5)
If you look at the 'spells cast' for Sha'ir you will see that they regularly get to cast a spell of a level they don't "know" (page 52 DMC), look at spells known per level. (page 53 DMC).

this translates to being able to send your 'Gen' off to get an unknown arcane spell, and having to have a higher DC and time to wait for the Gen to return with the spell.

therefore with versatile spellcaster I can cast level 2 spells, and thus do qualify for geomancer.

This also has knock on effects for other scoring...

Thank you for considering my appeal...

I look forward to hearing your reply...

Chairman's note: Given the large number of entrants, I wouldn't worry too much about having a couple of queries about your scores.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Both Assassin and Pyrokineticist have handbooks so there's a precedent.



I dunno about EoG. Would there be that much variety in builds?

I wonder what action the Blinding Spittle ability takes?

Assassin's Handbook was made at least a year or so after the IC contest though.