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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    Default A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    This is something I've been attempting for a very long time now (lost count of how many versions went down the trash can).
    Basically, the idea is to make a decent Fighter fix that will be as simplified as possible.
    It has to fix most (if not all) of the core Fighter's ailments with little to no exhaustible class resources (action points / combat focus / gambits / ... whatever) and without cramming too many features per level.
    I believe it's at least a strong Tier-4 (not sure if I reached Tier-3 or not, but no biggy).


    {table=head]Level|Special|Strike

    1st|Fighter Bonus Feat, Combat Training|

    2nd|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    1d6

    3rd|Tactics (Combat Superiority)|
    1d6

    4th|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    1d6

    5th|True Toughness, Maneuvers Expertise|
    2d6

    6th|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    2d6

    7th|Tactics (Battlefield Mobility)|
    2d6

    8th|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    3d6

    9th|Mettle, Counterblock|
    3d6

    10th|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    3d6

    11th|Tactics (Combat Freedom)|
    4d6

    12th|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    4d6

    13th|Indomitable Warrior, Maneuvers Mastery|
    4d6

    14th|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    5d6

    15th|Tactics (Seize The Moment)|
    5d6

    16th|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    5d6

    17th|Improved Mettle, Counterblock Fluidity|
    6d6

    18th|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    6d6

    19th|Tactics (Combat Supremacy)|
    6d6

    20th|FBF, Physical Prowess|
    7d6

    [/table]


    HP, BAB, Saves, and Weapon & Armor Proficiency: Same as the core Fighter.

    Class skills: Balance, Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animals, Heal, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (dungeoneering / geography / history / local / nobility and royalty), Listen, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival and Swim.
    Skill points per level: 4 + INT-mod



    Feature Descriptions:

    Spoiler
    Show

    Fighter Bonus Feat (AKA "FBF")
    At 1st level and each even level thereafter, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat.
    These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as "fighter bonus feats".
    A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including alleviated ability score and base attack bonus minimums.
    A Fighter may make use of ACFs intended for the original fighter (e.g. Dungeon Crasher at 2nd level, Elusive Attack at 6th etc), with the exception that he's not restricted to the specified levels, but may take the ACFs from there on.
    Special: There are no "free meals" when it comes to ACFs, such as in the case of Zhentarim Soldier (skill focus is just a regular general feat, and Extended intimidation & Swift Demoralization are available at levels 6 & 10 respectively).
    Special: the benefits of Elusive Attack, Counterattack and Overpowering attack all stack, and each is a prereq to the next.

    Combat Training (Ex)
    For the purposes of qualifying for "Fighter feats" (gained by either class progression or character progression), a fighter treats his ability scores as though they were 2 points higher than they actually are.
    At 6th Fighter level and each 5 class-levels thereafter this bonus increases by +1 (max +5 at level 16).
    Furthermore, once per day, a fighter may spend 1d4 hours training with a specific weapon he’s not proficient with and gain proficiency with that specific weapon (doesn't apply to other weapons of the same type). This temporary weapon training is lost in 3 cases:
    - More than 1 day per Fighter level has passes since the last time the fighter has trained with the weapon and it was not used in battle.
    - The fighter has completed an hour of training with another weapon for the purpose of gaining temporary proficiency.

    Physical Prowess (Ex)
    At each even level, a fighter receives a scaling +1 bonus to each of the following aspects:
    Applied Force: The fighter can administer force to the weakest points of inanimate objects effectively, giving the character a +1 bonus on Strength checks to break or burst items.
    Combat Bearing: The fighter can steady himself to fight in precarious situations, to avoid falling when damaged while balancing or moving quickly across difficult surfaces.
    Stamina Reserve: The fighter can push his body more than normal, to continue running and avoid nonlethal damage from a forced march, and to resist drowning.

    Strike (Ex)
    At 2nd level, a fighter gains a pool of damage dice he can allocate to successful attacks each round. On a successful attack, the fighter may add any or all of his Strike dice to the damage inflicted by his attack. Once Strike dice are added to an attack, they are effectively “spent” until the beginning of your next turn.
    The fighter may trade d6s (as many as s/he’s got) to gain +1 per d6 traded to any combat associated d20 roll (attack roll, opposed checks, saving throw, skill checks during combat etc). he may do so for as long as he has d6s to trade. A fighter must announce such tradeoff before making the d20 roll in question.

    Tactics (Combat Superiority) (Ex)
    A 3rd level fighter is so confident in his use of the martial arts that he can perform certain maneuvers with skill surpassing other devoted combatants.
    The fighter gains a +4 bonus in the following circumstances:
    - Combat associated Listen, Sense Motive & Spot checks.
    - Attack rolls when making AoOs and when attacking targets that are flanked, flatfooted or lose their Dex-bonus to AC for any other reason.
    - When making an opposed check (Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Feint, Overrun, Sunder and Trip) – offensively as well as defensively. Furthermore, for each 4 levels above 3rd, whenever making opposed checks vs. an opponent of a larger size category than the fighter, the fighter's opponent loses the cumulative benefits of one size category. Note that the fighter still cannot bull rush (or gain the advantage when grappling) vs. an opponent more than one size category larger than himself.

    True Toughness (Ex)
    5th level fighters are some of the world’s toughest, and add their Con-bonus to their Saving Throws (twice to Fort saves).
    A fighter that lacks a Constitution score applies his Charisma bonus instead.

    Maneuvers Expertise (Ex)
    Once per round, a 5th level fighter can substitute any normal attack with a combat maneuver that normally requires a standard action to execute (Bull Rush, Aid Another, etc).
    The fighter uses the attack bonus he would normally use for this Maneuver.

    Tactics (Battlefield Mobility) (Ex)
    On the battlefield, life and death is measured in moments. Where other warriors need to carefully pick their shots, the fighter combines mobility and offense in a graceful, deadly dance.
    A fighter of 7th level can spend a swift action to make a full attack as a standard action (also applies for Spring Attack).
    Furthermore, if the fighter has not made AoOs in a given combat round, he may spend an immediate action to take an out-of turn 5ft-step. This does not deny an attacker’s ability to attack after making a move action if the attacker has not completed his/her movement and has enough left to follow-up and it is practically useless against range attacks (meaning this ability is not an insurance policy against attacks).
    The fighter may also use a swift action to gain an extra move action.

    Counterblock (Ex)
    Once per round when attacked with a melee attack, a 9th level fighter may make an opposing attack roll at his highest BAB. If the fighter's roll equals or exceeds his attacker's roll, all damage from the attack is negated.

    Tactics (Combat Freedom) (Ex)
    At 11th level, the Fighter has learned to harness momentum and can barrel straight through most hampering effects.
    The fighter is immune to effects that would reduce his speed, including armor penalties, difficult terrain, and spells like "slow".
    Effects that eliminate actions or hold the fighter in place (such as the Daze status or a Grapple) still have their normal effect

    Indomitable Warrior (Ex)
    A 13th level fighter’s fighting spirit enables him to push his body beyond the normal limits of endurance.
    The fighter no longer automatically fails a saving throw on a roll of 1. He might still fail the save if his result fails to equal or beat the DC.
    Once per encounter, the fighter may re-roll a failed saving throw in an attempt to linger on where others would fall. For each 3 levels above 13th, a fighter may re-roll one additional time per encounter, but may not do so on two consecutive rounds.

    Maneuvers Mastery (Ex)
    A 13th level fighter can substitute any attack (including AoOs) with a combat maneuver that normally requires a standard action to execute (Bull Rush, Aid Another, etc).
    The fighter uses the attack bonus he would normally use for this Maneuver.

    Tactics (Seize The Moment) (Ex)
    A 15th level fighter gains an extra swift or immediate action every combat round (meaning, in a single combat round you can either take 2 immediate actions, 2 swift actions, or 1 immediate action and 1 swift action).
    Furthermore, once per encounter he may spend an immediate action to take an out-of turn move action (this comes at the expense of AoOs) or a swift action to gain an extra standard action.The fighter may spend 2 immediate/swift actions to gain these results with no usage limit (which leaves some advantage to making a full attack from a stand-still).

    Counterblock Fluidity (Ex)
    A 17th level fighter can make as many counters as his base number of attacks or his Dex-bonus – whichever’s higher, making them all at the highest attack bonus.

    Tactics (Combat Supremacy) (Ex)
    Any attack vs. a 19th level fighter provokes an AoO.
    When attacking another fighter of 19th level or higher, the fighter does not automatically provoke an AoO, unless the target exceeds his Fighter by 4 or more.

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Pretty sure that Strike violates your "no exhaustible class features" rule. Not saying that it's bad, mind you. Just saying.

    First, I highly suggest that you use standard class formatting. It helps legibility immensely. Along the same lines, providing complete descriptions, not just "as the PHB, but one sentence trying to convey a paragraph of information." Remember, this is D&D: things must be explained thoroughly to per-empt munchkins.

    Anyway...

    "a fighter may trade an FBF to gain any FBF-bases ACF as soon as he qualifies for the said ACF." What does this mean?

    Physical Prowess does not function as written. You gain one ability every even level, but you have to pick between the three, and none of them scale in any way.

    Combat Superiority needs to scale.

    True Toughness can probably be uncapped-- 5th is pretty high to be worried about dips.

    Indomitable Warrior could stand to get more resources over time. Or, maybe, be linked to expending Strike die?

    Seize the Moment and Action Supremacy would seem to do the same thing, but I can't tell, because the wording on both (especially the latter) isn't clear.

    Also... it still doesn't have that much to do besides damage. Physical Prowess is too limited to help that much, even if it scales. The Strike trade-in isn't really good enough to help combat maneuvers, although it can help survivability. The improved skills help, but don't go quite far enough, especially given the lack of Int/Cha synergy. It's a solid T4, I guess, and it can fight pretty solid, so... yay?

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    I liked Tactics (Combat Freedom), but I'm not sure that this really does exactly what you wanted. I think more abilities like the Tactics would help. Basically give them an edge where they need it.
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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Pretty sure that Strike violates your "no exhaustible class features" rule. Not saying that it's bad, mind you. Just saying.
    Given those refresh automatically and unconditionally every combat turn anew, I don’t really regard them as exhaustible (just like iterative attacks are not exhaustible).


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    First, I highly suggest that you use standard class formatting. It helps legibility immensely. Along the same lines, providing complete descriptions, not just "as the PHB, but one sentence trying to convey a paragraph of information." Remember, this is D&D: things must be explained thoroughly to per-empt munchkins.
    I don’t see what new information is brought to the discussion table by adding those 4 columns.
    As far as I’m concerned, adding them amounts to:
    - More formatting work for me (and my spare time is not that abundant).
    - Needless background noise (I’ve seen quite a few class fixes that made very few changes, leaving the readers the task of fishing out those changes).
    Minimizing is a kind of me fulfilling an unwritten contract with whatever readers that everything in my posts is valid and new information and that they won’t have to figure out what’s redundant and what’s not.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    "a fighter may trade an FBF to gain any FBF-bases ACF as soon as he qualifies for the said ACF." What does this mean?
    (e.g. Dungeon Crasher at 2nd level, Elusive Attack at 6th, etc.)
    I’m open to re-wording/suggestions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Physical Prowess does not function as written. You gain one ability every even level, but you have to pick between the three, and none of them scale in any way.
    1. They always accompany FBF.
    2. Would applying all three be ok?


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Combat Superiority needs to scale.
    Do you mean that it’s too strong to begin with and not significant enough later on?


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    True Toughness can probably be uncapped-- 5th is pretty high to be worried about dips.
    Agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Indomitable Warrior could stand to get more resources over time. Or, maybe, be linked to expending Strike die?
    Those seem pretty solid to me, but did you have anything in particular in mind?


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Seize the Moment and Action Supremacy would seem to do the same thing, but I can't tell, because the wording on both (especially the latter) isn't clear.
    The latter grants one more quick action.
    I couldn’t figure what else to put in there. Wasn’t sure if spending 2 immediate actions for a move action and 2 swift actions for a standard action (both unrestricted) wouldn’t be too much and nothing else came up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Also... it still doesn't have that much to do besides damage.
    You mean besides fight. Yes I agree, but there’s a limit to how much one can balance between simplicity and versatility.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    The Strike trade-in isn't really good enough to help combat maneuvers, although it can help survivability.
    I’m not sure I understand.
    You get to pick the d20 roll to influence, which gives quite a lot of flexibility.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    The improved skills help, but don't go quite far enough, especially given the lack of Int/Cha synergy.
    Correct. One thing this class is not, is a skillmonkey. Not in the least.
    I wouldn’t even consider giving it 6/level.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    It's a solid T4, I guess, and it can fight pretty solid, so... yay?
    Once the above issues are resolved… yay

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso View Post
    I liked Tactics (Combat Freedom), but I'm not sure that this really does exactly what you wanted.
    What do you figure that it's supposed to do but doesn't?


    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso View Post
    I think more abilities like the Tactics would help. Basically give them an edge where they need it.
    1. I'm fresh out of ideas.
    2. At the expense of what?

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    I like combat training and the tactics line, though maybe Tactics would be simplified. Will this fighter be able to do a full attack as standard action or make more attacks as a standard action?
    Edit: Derp, missed it under Battlefield Mobility

    If you feel that you are out of ideas, feel free to nab anything you like from my stuff. Some of the more relevant things (probably in order of relevance) may be:

    - The 3.U Fighter
    - The Savage
    - The Legionnaire
    - The Castle Crasher
    Last edited by Kane0; 2013-01-11 at 03:48 AM.

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    I like combat training and the tactics line, though maybe Tactics would be simplified. Will this fighter be able to do a full attack as standard action or make more attacks as a standard action?
    Edit: Derp, missed it under Battlefield Mobility

    If you feel that you are out of ideas, feel free to nab anything you like from my stuff. Some of the more relevant things (probably in order of relevance) may be:

    - The 3.U Fighter
    - The Savage
    - The Legionnaire
    - The Castle Crasher
    Thanks.
    This is what I cooked out of your 3.U Fighter (tell me what you think of it):


    Maneuvers Expertise (Ex)
    Once per round, a 5th level fighter can substitute any normal attack with a combat Maneuver (Trip, Disarm, etc).
    The fighter uses the attack bonus he would normally use for this Maneuver.

    Counterblock (Ex)
    As a reaction, once per round, a 9th level fighter can make an opposed melee attack against an opponent’s melee attack to negate the incoming attack, husing his highest attack bonus.

    Maneuvers Mastery (Ex)
    A 13th level fighter can substitute any normal attack with a combat Maneuver (Trip, Disarm, etc), using the attack bonus he traded.

    Counterblock Fluidity (Ex)
    A 17th level fighter can make as many counters as his base number of attacks or his Dex-bonus – whichever’s higher.

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Looks all good from here. Few little things though.

    You may need to change counterblock to use up an attack of opportunity or more likely an immediate action. Reactions are a 3.U thing.

    Maneuver mastery only gets rid of the limitation of 'once per round' that Maneuver expertise has am i right?

    Counterblock looks good, especially if he has combat reflexes or those extra immediate actions you give him.
    Last edited by Kane0; 2013-01-11 at 05:23 AM.

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    You may need to change counterblock to use up an attack of opportunity or more likely an immediate action. Reactions are a 3.U thing.
    Done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Maneuver mastery only gets rid of the limitation of 'once per round' that Maneuver expertise has am i right?
    Right

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Counterblock looks good, especially if he has combat reflexes or those extra immediate actions you give him.
    Counterblock, the way I see it, is not an action in and on itself, but a by-product of the fighter's weapon swings and body movements.
    It's in no way tied to AoOs.
    As far as the extra immediate action - indeed a bonus that didn't occur to me.
    Nice catch.

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Lookin good

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Lookin good
    Yes, I wasn't very optimistic, but I'm actually quite content with the result.
    Now only 3 issues left to resolve:
    - Physical Prowess – all at once (yes/no)?
    - Combat Superiority – how to scale (does it really need scaling)?
    - Action Supremacy – what to do with it?

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    I don’t see what new information is brought to the discussion table by adding those 4 columns.
    As far as I’m concerned, adding them amounts to:
    - More formatting work for me (and my spare time is not that abundant).
    - Needless background noise (I’ve seen quite a few class fixes that made very few changes, leaving the readers the task of fishing out those changes).
    Minimizing is a kind of me fulfilling an unwritten contract with whatever readers that everything in my posts is valid and new information and that they won’t have to figure out what’s redundant and what’s not.
    It's a professionalism thing. It just looks more respectable.

    (e.g. Dungeon Crasher at 2nd level, Elusive Attack at 6th, etc.)
    I’m open to re-wording/suggestions.
    Copy the text from the SRD, and note that your fix may still make use of ACFs intended for the original fighter.

    1. They always accompany FBF.
    2. Would applying all three be ok?
    They're pretty weak regardless of how high the bonus is, but my point was that the bonus never rises above a totally insignificant "+1."

    Do you mean that it’s too strong to begin with and not significant enough later on?
    OK when you get it, weak later on-- you need big numbers to deal with large creatures. (Although too big and you steamroll humanoid opponents, so it's a bit of a balancing act). Personally, I like the idea of ignoring size differences, although the wording on that gets a bit funny. (I think I got it pretty right in the community fighter fix that was floating around a little while ago).

    Those seem pretty solid to me, but did you have anything in particular in mind?
    I was thinking either "at every Xth level, you may use this ability an additional time per encounter," or "spend X Strike dice and reroll."

    The latter grants one more quick action.
    I couldn’t figure what else to put in there. Wasn’t sure if spending 2 immediate actions for a move action and 2 swift actions for a standard action (both unrestricted) wouldn’t be too much and nothing else came up.
    For a fighter capstone? 2 standard or move actions/turn will be fine.
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2013-01-11 at 10:23 AM.

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    It's a professionalism thing. It just looks more respectable.
    I'll remember that for future posts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Copy the text from the SRD, and note that your fix may still make use of ACFs intended for the original fighter.
    Will get to it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    They're pretty weak regardless of how high the bonus is, but my point was that the bonus never rises above a totally insignificant "+1."
    This conclusion does't add up with the following quote:
    "The fighter gains an additional bonus at 5th level and every two fighter levels thereafter (7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, and 19th)."
    So, what do you say - applying the bonuses to all three is too much or acceptable?


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    OK when you get it, weak later on-- you need big numbers to deal with large creatures. (Although too big and you steamroll humanoid opponents, so it's a bit of a balancing act). Personally, I like the idea of ignoring size differences, although the wording on that gets a bit funny. (I think I got it pretty right in the community fighter fix that was floating around a little while ago).
    I'll check it out (but which community Fighter fix?).


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    I was thinking either "at every Xth level, you may use this ability an additional time per encounter," or "spend X Strike dice and reroll."
    I'm leaning toward "at every Xth level", because relying on Strike dice would be spamming.


    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    For a fighter capstone? 2 standard or move actions/turn will be fine.
    Not exactly capstone, but Ok.
    I'm just a bit concerned about practically gaining Time Stands Still every round.
    Maybe if I limited full attack as a standard action by spending a swift action - that way the Fighter can only squeeze full attack plus one extra attack per round, and the extra full attack will be reserved for when the fighter stands still.

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    This conclusion does't add up with the following quote:
    "The fighter gains an additional bonus at 5th level and every two fighter levels thereafter (7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, and 19th)."
    So, what do you say - applying the bonuses to all three is too much or acceptable?
    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi;
    Physical Prowess (Ex)
    At each even level, a fighter gets a bonus to some aspect of his ability checks that makes him a better warrior.
    The bonus must be drawn from the following list:
    There's nothing in the class text about the bonus scaling. You don't say "as the class feature from the Dead Levels article" and you don't link it. There's no way to tell that they scale.

    But yes, a bonus to all three is fine. You could add your full fighter level to all three and be fine. Heck, you'd be fine auto-succeeding, at least on the last two.


    I'll check it out (but which community Fighter fix?).
    This one. (Last draft I could find-- you're looking for The Bigger They Are... and ...The Harder They Fall).


    Not exactly capstone, but Ok.
    19th level; close enough.

    [/QUOTE]I'm just a bit concerned about practically gaining Time Stands Still every round.
    Maybe if I limited full attack as a standard action by spending a swift action - that way the Fighter can only squeeze full attack plus one extra attack per round, and the extra full attack will be reserved for when the fighter stands still.[/QUOTE]
    True; I forgot that you'd added the standard action full attack. What you're talking about here should work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    I read the first post, then just kinda skimmed the rest, so if I repeat something that's already been discussed, sorry.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Combat Training (Ex)
    For the purposes of qualifying for "Fighter feats" (gained by either class progression or character progression), a fighter treats his ability scores as though they were 2 points higher than they actually are.
    At 6th Fighter level and each 5 class-levels thereafter this bonus increases by +1 (max +5 at level 16).
    Furthermore, a fighter may spend 1d4 hours training with a specific weapon he’s not proficient with and gain proficiency with that specific weapon (doesn’t apply to other weapons of the same type).
    Two things here: I recognize that the issue of having Int/Wis requirement for physical combat feats is kind of annoying, but the fighter is not the only class to suffer from this. I would rather take more effort to alter the feats and help out a wider range of melee classes. One thing I've been experimenting with in my fixes is offering an option for meeting the prerequisites of "Wis 13 OR BAB +3" (for example). This way, a "smart" combatant (or rogue or ranger, etc) might have access to the feat sooner, but the fighter will eventually be able to learn them as well through the virtue of his battlefield experience.

    Also, 1d4 hours per weapon means the fighter can pretty much pick up proficiency with every weapon in about a week, and there's no good reason for them to not know every weapon, including exotic weapons. Why not make it a retraining option, shifting one weapon for another. Basically something like give up proficiency with 1 simple weapon to learn one more simple weapon in 1d4 hours, martial weapons in 1d6, and 1 for 1 exotic weapons in 1d8.

    Physical Prowess (Ex)
    Stamina Reserve: A fighter can push his body more than normal, giving the character a +1 bonus on Constitution checks to continue running and to avoid nonlethal damage from a forced march.
    You know what the bane of heavily-armored characters is? (besides Rust-monsters, I mean) Swim checks. Especailly since no one ever wants to waste the skill points to become decent in them. How about letting either Stamina reserve or another new "physical prowess" add to your strength checks made to resist drowning?

    Strike (Ex)
    This says "3rd" but you get your first d6 at level 2, according to the table. I think there's a formating or revisions error somewhere.

    Is there any reason to just not dump all of these into the first attack? Or the first attack that hits?
    Was it your intent that you need to announce your use of strike-dice BEFORE rolling for attack, like most features require? (either way, you might want to clarify)
    Does "any combat associated d20 roll" include trip, grapple, and other similar checks? Does it really apply to any skill check made in an area where combat is taking place? I have trouble figuring out why being engaged in combat with a Yugoloth would suddenly make the fighter better at balancing/hiding/knowing stuff, etc.

    The ability isn't bad, I just think it's a little odd and could benefit from some clarification.

    Tactics (Combat Superiority) (Ex)
    A +4 bonus is always nice, but the lack of scaling in this in terms of either power, or its versatility makes it trail of in kinda "meh" territory in upper levels.

    True Toughness (Ex)
    In my book, allowing your "toughness" to assist in your relfex saves is only slightly less confusing than allowing charisma (i.e. the pally) to do the same.

    I like the way the saves work, and I'm reluctant to just go about slapping any old bonus on them willy-nilly. What about something like this:

    Being more adaptable than the average person means you can draw upon different attributes to help you; this means you apply the best of different stats to your various saves:
    Fort- Con or Str
    Reflex- Dex or Wis (wisdom is how aware you are of your sourroundings, etc)
    Will- Int or Cha

    Maneuvers Expertise (Ex)
    Again, I think that the combat maneuvers need fixing more than the fighter needs a specific class fix, but as far as Class Features go this one seems fine. You might want to let it happen more often at higher levels though, or to replace AoO eventually.
    ...
    Nevermind, I see that this is largely replaced with another feature later one.

    Tactics (Battlefield Mobility) (Ex)
    A fighter of 7th level can spend a swift action to make a full attack as a standard action (also applies for Spring Attack).
    Buwuh???
    ...
    Ok, I had to read this three times, but I think I get it now. If this is your goal, then I might just simplify it by saying the fighter gets extra attacks as part of a standard action at various levels

    Furthermore, he may spend an immediate action to take an out-of turn 5ft-step (this comes at the expense of AoOs) or a swift action to gain an extra move action. This does not deny an attacker’s ability to attack after making a move action if the attacker has not completed his/her movement and has enough left to follow-up and it is practically useless against range attacks (meaning this ability is not an insurance policy against attacks).
    I think this whole block needs some clean up and revision. For example, I would write: "So long as a fighter has not used any AoO yet this round, he may give up his ability to make an AoO until the end of his next turn in order to take a 5 ft. step as an immedaite action."

    It's still problematic; what happens if I get attacked twice (as part of a full-round attack) and them move? If my opponent needs to follow me is he violating the movement rules? You should think about how you want to interpret this.

    Counterblock (Ex)
    Why not just call it "Block" or "Counter"? Are there already D&D terms with those names?

    I'm pretty sure what you want to say is: "Once per round when attacked with a melee attack, the fighter may make an opposing attack roll at his highest BAB. If the fighter's roll exceeds his attacker's roll, all damage from the attack is negated."


    Tactics (Combat Freedom) (Ex)
    This is pretty good, but you might want to specify if the fighter can still charge or take other normal actions, if if the effects listed merely fail to reduce his movement.

    Indomitable Warrior (Ex)
    This is nice; though since you have a sharp limit on how often you can use it I don't know if the "not on consecutive rounds" is necessary.

    Tactics (Seize The Moment) (Ex)/Tactics (Action Supremacy) (Ex)
    Gaining extra actions is cerainly a nice ability, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) but I think all characters can already use both a swift action and an immediate action during the same round. So what you really end up with for Sieze the Moment is a combination of 2 and 1 for swift and/or immediate actions, making Supremacy redundant.

    Counterblock Fluidity (Ex)
    Does he still make them all at the highest BAB?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Pretty sure that Strike violates your "no exhaustible class features" rule. Not saying that it's bad, mind you. Just saying.
    What's an "exhaustable class feature" and why don't we like them? I've just never heard this terminology before.

    Remember, this is D&D: things must be explained thoroughly to per-empt munchkins.
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    Physical Prowess does not function as written. You gain one ability every even level, but you have to pick between the three, and none of them scale in any way.
    I think this comes from the dead-level replacement options posted by WotC. Basically, they can pick one of the three options every even level, and the +1 bonus stacks each time they choose it. So you can either spread out the bonus, or focus on just one thing.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-01-11 at 01:12 PM.
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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    What's an "exhaustable class feature" and why don't we like them? I've just never heard this terminology before.
    It's from nonsi's introduction to the class. I think he means things with per-encounter or per-day uses.

    I think this comes from the dead-level replacement options posted by WotC. Basically, they can pick one of the three options every even level, and the +1 bonus stacks each time they choose it. So you can either spread out the bonus, or focus on just one thing.
    I know what it is and how it's supposed to work. But as written here, it doesn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Two things here: I recognize that the issue of having Int/Wis requirement for physical combat feats is kind of annoying, but the fighter is not the only class to suffer from this. I would rather take more effort to alter the feats and help out a wider range of melee classes. One thing I've been experimenting with in my fixes is offering an option for meeting the prerequisites of "Wis 13 OR BAB +3" (for example). This way, a "smart" combatant (or rogue or ranger, etc) might have access to the feat sooner, but the fighter will eventually be able to learn them as well through the virtue of his battlefield experience.
    I’m not against, but this is a class fix, so I’m following the thumb rule “keep it isolated”.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Also, 1d4 hours per weapon means the fighter can pretty much pick up proficiency with every weapon in about a week, and there's no good reason for them to not know every weapon, including exotic weapons. Why not make it a retraining option, shifting one weapon for another. Basically something like give up proficiency with 1 simple weapon to learn one more simple weapon in 1d4 hours, martial weapons in 1d6, and 1 for 1 exotic weapons in 1d8.
    “…with that specific weapon (doesn’t apply to other weapons of the same type)”.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    You know what the bane of heavily-armored characters is? (besides Rust-monsters, I mean) Swim checks. Especailly since no one ever wants to waste the skill points to become decent in them. How about letting either Stamina reserve or another new "physical prowess" add to your strength checks made to resist drowning?
    That’s a nice idea. I’ll keep it in mind and thinks of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    This says "3rd" but you get your first d6 at level 2, according to the table. I think there's a formating or revisions error somewhere.
    Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Is there any reason to just not dump all of these into the first attack? Or the first attack that hits?
    Was it your intent that you need to announce your use of strike-dice BEFORE rolling for attack, like most features require? (either way, you might want to clarify)
    Does "any combat associated d20 roll" include trip, grapple, and other similar checks? Does it really apply to any skill check made in an area where combat is taking place? I have trouble figuring out why being engaged in combat with a Yugoloth would suddenly make the fighter better at balancing/hiding/knowing stuff, etc.
    "any combat associated d20 roll".


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    The ability isn't bad, I just think it's a little odd and could benefit from some clarification.
    I’ll re-read it and see what I can do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    A +4 bonus is always nice, but the lack of scaling in this in terms of either power, or its versatility makes it trail of in kinda "meh" territory in upper levels.
    I took care of dealing with larger opponents, so that +4 should remain more or less consistent.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    In my book, allowing your "toughness" to assist in your relfex saves is only slightly less confusing than allowing charisma (i.e. the pally) to do the same.

    I like the way the saves work, and I'm reluctant to just go about slapping any old bonus on them willy-nilly. What about something like this:

    Being more adaptable than the average person means you can draw upon different attributes to help you; this means you apply the best of different stats to your various saves:
    Fort- Con or Str
    Reflex- Dex or Wis (wisdom is how aware you are of your sourroundings, etc)
    Will- Int or Cha
    My immanent answer would be: “Divine Grace”.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Buwuh???
    ...
    Ok, I had to read this three times, but I think I get it now. If this is your goal, then I might just simplify it by saying the fighter gets extra attacks as part of a standard action at various levels
    Yes, but then the 19th level ability would be totally broken, and it’s not like the Fighter has too many things to do with swift actions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    I think this whole block needs some clean up and revision. For example, I would write: "So long as a fighter has not used any AoO yet this round, he may give up his ability to make an AoO until the end of his next turn in order to take a 5 ft. step as an immedaite action."
    Ok, not bad. I’ll mix-change it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    It's still problematic; what happens if I get attacked twice (as part of a full-round attack) and them move? If my opponent needs to follow me is he violating the movement rules? You should think about how you want to interpret this.
    Which is why I said “This does not deny an attacker’s ability to attack after making a move action if the attacker has not completed his/her movement and has enough left to follow-up”.
    Meaning: these are simultaneous actions.
    This may seem like a meaningless action, but it gives the fighter the ability to move to a position that might give hime tactical advantage (elevated position, near an ally that would aid another, positioning for flanking / avoiding flanking etc).


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Why not just call it "Block" or "Counter"? Are there already D&D terms with those names?
    Just to remove any doubts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    I'm pretty sure what you want to say is: "Once per round when attacked with a melee attack, the fighter may make an opposing attack roll at his highest BAB. If the fighter's roll exceeds his attacker's roll, all damage from the attack is negated."
    Yes. Thanks.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    This is pretty good, but you might want to specify if the fighter can still charge or take other normal actions, if if the effects listed merely fail to reduce his movement.
    Sorry, I lost you on this one.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    This is nice; though since you have a sharp limit on how often you can use it I don't know if the "not on consecutive rounds" is necessary.
    With True Toughness, this ability is virtually an immunity.
    Long term insurance policies hurt game tension, so I wanted the fighter’s opponent to have a decent shot of affecting him the following round without the re-roll negating their efforts twice in a row.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Gaining extra actions is cerainly a nice ability, but (and correct me if I'm wrong) but I think all characters can already use both a swift action and an immediate action during the same round. So what you really end up with for Sieze the Moment is a combination of 2 and 1 for swift and/or immediate actions, making Supremacy redundant.
    RAW, you can’t take a swift action if you’ve used up your immediate action after your previous combat turn.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Does he still make them all at the highest BAB?
    Yes. Thanks.

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    “…with that specific weapon (doesn’t apply to other weapons of the same type)”.
    Yes, I'm aware of that, but if I'm understanding this ability correctly, you can become permenantly proficient in an average of 22 weapons every week (based on an 8 hour work day), including exotic weapons. So basically, any fighter who isn't literally the exact minimum age for the character should logically have learned every single weapon in existence within a year or two.



    My immanent answer would be: “Divine Grace”.
    I specifically pointed out the pally as the other example of something I didn't like. I can sort of understanding handwaving it away on the paladin, who is a divine-magic user, but I just can't picture how this works on a fighter. You might want to refluff it to explain that the Constituion bonus isn't helping you dodge better, but is simply helping you shrug off the effects that you don't quite avoid.

    Sorry, I lost you on this one.
    No problem; I guess I wasn't very clear. I was mostly thinking of Charge, and in the RAW it seems sort of ambiguous as to whether or not you can Charge over rough terrain and similar obstacles if they don't slow your movement speed, or if the rough terrain hampers the manuever in some other way.
    The Swashbuckler ability that does something similar is explicit about how you can Charge across terrain where it would otherwise be prevented.

    With True Toughness, this ability is virtually an immunity.
    Long term insurance policies hurt game tension, so I wanted the fighter’s opponent to have a decent shot of affecting him the following round without the re-roll negating their efforts twice in a row.
    As I said, I'm not a huge fan of True Toughness, but I guess your explanation here makes sense.

    RAW, you can’t take a swift action if you’ve used up your immediate action after your previous combat turn.
    Ah, ok.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-01-12 at 12:29 AM.
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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Maneuvers Expertise (Ex)
    Once per round, a 5th level fighter can substitute any normal attack with a combat Maneuver (Trip, Disarm, etc).
    The fighter uses the attack bonus he would normally use for this Maneuver.

    Maneuvers Mastery (Ex)
    A 13th level fighter can substitute any normal attack with a combat Maneuver (Trip, Disarm, etc), using the attack bonus he traded.
    You should probably change your examples on these abilities, since Trip and Disarm are already used in place of a regular attack =P I suggest Bull Rush, Aid Another, or Feint, which are all standard actions by default.

    Also: I really like Strike, and I think a modified version of that would be great for a simple, little Fighter fix =)

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Yes, I'm aware of that, but if I'm understanding this ability correctly, you can become permenantly proficient in an average of 22 weapons every week (based on an 8 hour work day), including exotic weapons. So basically, any fighter who isn't literally the exact minimum age for the character should logically have learned every single weapon in existence within a year or two.
    You’re right.
    I’ll limit it to once a day and make it so that once another weapon training starts, the previous one is cancelled, or even that it is lost right after an encounter where the fighter has used other weapons for attacking and did not use the said weapon.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    I specifically pointed out the pally as the other example of something I didn't like. I can sort of understanding handwaving it away on the paladin, who is a divine-magic user, but I just can't picture how this works on a fighter. You might want to refluff it to explain that the Constituion bonus isn't helping you dodge better, but is simply helping you shrug off the effects that you don't quite avoid.
    I believe I don’t have to re-fluff, because HP are an abstraction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    No problem; I guess I wasn't very clear. I was mostly thinking of Charge, and in the RAW it seems sort of ambiguous as to whether or not you can Charge over rough terrain and similar obstacles if they don't slow your movement speed, or if the rough terrain hampers the manuever in some other way.
    The Swashbuckler ability that does something similar is explicit about how you can Charge across terrain where it would otherwise be prevented.
    The general consensus is that you can’t do what’s not specifically written that you can do (except for things that any average person can do).
    Otoh, if the terrain doesn’t hinder your movement, why should it hinder charging?
    Given the overall makeup of this class, it shouldn’t have Acrobatic Charge built in, but since this isn’t exactly Acrobatic Charge, I’m thinking of requiring any appropriate Balance checks (with Jump & Tumble checks not being an option).
    I’d be glad to see how you’d rephrase that.

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    Default Re: A Quick & Simple Fighter Fix – I believe this one actually does something

    Quote Originally Posted by Midwoka View Post
    You should probably change your examples on these abilities, since Trip and Disarm are already used in place of a regular attack =P I suggest Bull Rush, Aid Another, or Feint, which are all standard actions by default.
    You’re right. Thanks


    Quote Originally Posted by Midwoka View Post
    Also: I really like Strike, and I think a modified version of that would be great for a simple, little Fighter fix =)
    Yes, I know this one has long since evolved beyond simple

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