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    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whip

    Hello everyone!

    Lately I've been thinking about d&d's whips. As they are, we all know they're pretty much useless and that using the spiked chain is a much better idea. But I'm still convinced that whips are so much flavourful than spiked chains.
    So, I've created a new kind of weapon - the Hooked Whip - to have a weapon that is at least decent if compared to the chain. Here it is:

    Suggestions
    Whip
    The classical whip. I suggest to move it from the Exotic Weapons group to the Martial Weapons group. Nothing that would break the game.
    For semplicity's sake, all of the contents presented below are not taking in account these suggestion, so that you can see how they work with the normal rules.

    Whips' mighty versions
    Forget it, just let the whips use the characters' Str modifier.

    Weapons

    Hooked Whip
    Exotic Weapon
    Damage: 1d8 (1d6)
    Critic: 19-20/x2
    Reach: 15 feet
    It has the same qualities of the normal whip, except that an hooked whip still damage an armoured foe and it also menace the enemies in the weapon's reach.
    A mighty version of these whip can obviously be created in order to use the character Strenght modifier. Moreover, since the hooks on the whip are made of metal, special materials (such as adamant, mithral etc) can be used to improve them.
    Just like Whip Dagger, a character proficient with Whip is also proficient with the Hooked Whip.


    Feats

    Flayer
    Prerequisite: BaB +1, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whips).
    Effect: attacking with a whip when adjacent to a foe doesn't provoke attack of opportunity any more.Moreover you threaten the enemies 15 feet far from you when you're using a whip, as with a normal reach weapon.

    Vexing Foe
    Prerequisite: BaB +5, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (whips), Flayer.
    Effect: You threaten all the enemies in your threatened area, not only those enemies 15 feet far from you.

    Whip Mastery
    Prerequisite: Dex 15, Sleight of Hand 4 ranks, Bab +8, Weapon Focus (Any whip), Flayer.
    You've mastered a wide array of combat maneuvers with the whip. You're now able to effectively use these three combat maneuvers:
    Longa Manus
    Effect: once per round, when the character hit an enemy with his whip, he can start a grapple check with the enemy. If the enemy fail the check, he is considered immobilzed by the character. The enemy can try to get free by winning an opposed grapple [or Escape Artist] check at the beginning of each one of his turns.
    Bloody Spin
    Effect: with a standard action, the character can set free a foe blocked by Longa Manus. By doing so, the character pull back his whip causing the hooks to cause great pain to his enemy. The character inflicts the normal whip's damage to the enemy. If the enemy fails a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10+damage dealt) then the damage is doubled. This stacks with a critical hit.
    Special: Bloody Spin can be used only with the Whip Dagger or with the Hooked Whip.
    The Hangman
    Effect: if you succeed to hit the enemy with these aimed attack, you grasp his throat causing swift suffocation. The target can attempt to resist this maneuver's effects with a Fortitude save (DC 10+Character's BaB+Dex). If the target fails, he immediately begins to suffocate. On the target's next turn, he is considered fatigued for 4+1d6 rounds. One round later, he is reduced to 0 hit points. One round later, the target fell unconscious. Each round, the target can delay that round's effects from occurring by making a successful Fortitude save, but each time a target fails his Fortitude save, he moves one step further along the track to suffocation. The enemy can try a Grapple or Escape Artist check at the beginning of every round to try to escape the whip's grasp; if he succeeds, he is staggered for 1 round as he gasps for breath. This special maneuver only affects living creatures that must breathe and is considered a Full Round Action.

    Whip the Ground
    Prerequisite: BaB+1, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Any whip).
    Effect: while you sling your whip, you fiercely whip the ground as a move equivalent action. Every foe in 60 feet that can see you must succeed on a Will saving throw (DC 15+Dex) or become shaken for 1d3 rounds. An enemy who succeed in his saving throw cannot be affected by this effect for 24 hours. This is a mind affecting ability.

    Guiding Whip
    Prerequisite: BaB +3, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Any whip).
    Effect: the character can aim, with a standard action, to a single limb of an enemy. On a successfull hit, the character can use his whip to pull the enemy by the limb, forcing him to move. The enemy has to move in a direction decided by the character (he can't force the enemy to move back) at half his speed. On the next enemy's turn, his move action will be considered already done. The enemy can avoid to be grasped with a successfull Reflex saving throw (DC 15 + BaB)

    Make Them Bleed
    Prerequisite: BaB +9, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Any Whip), Flayer, Combat Reflexes.
    Effect: As a standard action, you can make a single attack against one enemy. If the attack roll is successful, you deal damage normally but the enemy also start suffering bleed damage equals to 3+1 per any Whip Feats you possess (including these one). The bleed damage ignore damage reductions.
    The Whip Feats are: Flayer, Vexing Foe, Whip Mastery, Whip the Ground, Guiding Whip, Make Them Bleed, Weapon Focus (Any Whip), Improved Weapon Focus (Any Whip), Weapon Specialization (Any Whip), Improved Weapon Specialization (Any Whip).


    Substitution Levels

    DROW FIGHTER

    Whip Focus (Ex)
    Level: 2
    Replaces: 2nd level's Fighter bonus feat
    Benefit: Upon selecting this feat, you gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls made with whips. This bonus does not stack with the bonus provided by Weapon Focus, but is treated as the equivalent of Weapon Focus for purpose of qualyfing for feats, prestige classes, and so on that requires the feat.

    Whirling Defense (Ex)
    Level: 6
    Replaces: 6th level's Fighter bonus feat
    Benefit: Now that you have learned how to efficiently use a whip to fight, you know how to defend yourself effectively on all sides, swinging your whip all around you and forcing your enemies to move carefully. All enemies in your threatened area are forced to move at half their normal speed. You may use this ability even though you do not normally threaten squares with a whip. An enemy who succeed on a Reflex saving throw (DC 10+BaB+Dex) is not affected from these special ability for the current round (but if in the next round he still is in the threatened area, he has to repeat the saving throw).


    Prestige Class

    Lasher

    Requirements:
    Base Attack Bonus: +6
    Skills: Sleight of Hands 4 ranks, Use Rope 2 ranks
    Feats: Weapon Focus (Any whip) , Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Any whip), Flayer, Combat Reflexes.
    Special: The lasher must own a whip, an hooked whip or whip dagger. Usually, a lasher owns a whip and an hooked whip or a whip dagger (or, if wealthy enough, the mighty versions of those weapons).

    d10
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|+1|+0|+2|+0|Vexing Foe, Third Hand

    2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0|Crack of Fate

    3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1|Deadly Whip, Stunning Snap

    4th|+4|+1|+4|+1|Crack of Doom

    5th|+5|+1|+4|+1|Death Spiral, Opportunist

    [/table]
    Skill Points: 4+Int. Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Spot (Wis), Use Rope (Dex).

    Spoiler
    Show
    Vexing Foe (Ex): You threaten all the enemies in your threatened area, not only those enemies 15 feet far from you.

    Third Hand (Ex): At 1st level, a Lasher's precision with the whips allows her to use them like a third hand—a third hand at the end of a flexible 15-foot-long arm—as a standard action. Depositing a lashed object into your hand is a move-equivalent action. Note: A lasher generally uses a normal whip to perform abilities granted by third hand, because a whip dagger or an hooked whip deals its damage to the object or individual grasped, while a regular whip does not. Sometimes, this is not a problem, especially if the item grasped has hardness, but other times inflicting damage by using third hand is a bad idea. Thus, most lashers carry two whips. A lasher successfully performs a task if her attack roll equals or exceeds the DC for a given task:

    - Punch a button, snuff a candle flame, flick a coin lying along the ground, etc. as a move-equivalent action. Range 15 feet, DC 15.
    Retrieve an unattended object of up to 20 pounds, and deposit into your off hand as a move-equivalent action. Range 15 feet, DC 20.

    - Firmly wrap the end of your whip around a pole, spike, or other likely projection up to 15 feet away as a move-equivalent action. The DC is 22. If used to wrap around a projection at the top of a wall, reduce the DC to climb the wall by 5. If the point of attachment is optimal on a ceiling fixture, you could swing over a chasm of up to 25 feet wide. You can also wrap items heavier than 20 pounds, but you cannot automatically flick them into your off hand (but you could drag them). You can unwrap the end of your whip from the entangled object as a free action.

    - When the victim of a precipitous fall, you can give up your Reflex save in an attempt to use your whip to snag a likely projection, pillar, rafter, etc., within 15 feet of the edge of the pit, cliff, bridge, etc. Generally, an unattached item (such as a statue, table, etc.) must weight twice as much as you for you to arrest your fall, otherwise you merely pull it after you). You may attempt to snag a friend or foe standing near the edge of the precipice as you fall. You make a ranged touch attack against another creature's AC (the friend does not apply his Dexterity bonus while an unwilling friend or a foe applies their Dexterity modifier to AC), If you hit, you wrap your whip around the target, who must make a successful Strength check against DC 20 to arrest both you and himself. An unsuccessful Strength check sends both you and your target into the precipice. You can unwrap the end of your whip from the entangled object as a free action.

    Crack of Fate (Ex): At 2nd level, a Lasher can take one extra attack per round with a whip, an hooked whip or whip dagger. The attack is made with the Lasher's highest base attack bonus, but every attack in that round suffers a —2 penalty. The lasher must use the full attack action to use Crack of Fate.

    Deadly Whip (Ex): At 3rd level, the Lasher is very skilled in swinging the whip, and can now add his Dexterity modifier to any whip's damage rolls.

    Stunning Snap (Ex): At 3rd level, a Lasher can use a whip, an hooked whip or whip dagger to stun a creature instead of inflicting subdual or normal damage. The Lasher can use this ability once per round, but no more than once per level per day. The Lasher must declare she is using a stun attack before making an attack roll. (A missed attack roll ruins the attempt.) A foe struck by a whip, hooked whip or whip dagger must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + the lasher's level + Strength modifier), in addition to receiving normal damage (subdual or standard). If the saving throw fails, the opponent is stunned for one round. A stunned character cannot act and loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, while attackers get a +2 bonus on attack rolls against a stunned opponent. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned by the lasher's stunning attack.

    Crack of Doom (Ex): At 4th level, a Lasher can take two extra attacks per round with a whip, hooked whip or whip dagger. This ability supersedes Crack of Fate (the abilities do not stack). The attack is at the Lasher's highest base attack bonus, but each attack (the extra one and normal ones) suffers a —4 penalty. The lasher must use the full attack action to use Crack of Doom.

    Death Spiral (Sup): At 5th level, the Lasher gains transcendental understanding of her whip, hooked whip or whip dagger. Once per day, she can spin the whip over her head with supernatural speed. All foes within a 15-foot radius of the Lasher must make a Reflex save against a DC equal to the Lasher's attack roll. Opponents who fail are stunned for 1d4+1 rounds. Stunned opponents must make a successful Fortitude save (DC 18) or become helpless for 1d4—1 rounds (minimum 1 round). Allies (as selected by the lasher) in range are spared the effects of the death spiral. The Death Spiral is a supernatural ability.

    Opportunist (Ex): At 5th level, once per round the Lasher can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as the Lasher’s attack of opportunity for that round against that creature: even a Lasher with the Combat Reflexes feat can’t use the opportunist ability more than once per round.



    So? What are your thoughts? Suggestions? New ideas? Critics?
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-01-29 at 07:15 AM.

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: trying to make whips less boring - please, leave suggestions, critics and your id

    I like the hooked whip and the flayer feat.

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    Titan in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less boring - please, leave suggestions, critics and your id

    I like the weapon, I like the feats. I just wish there were more to build it into a proper Fighter Chain Feat sort of deal. Well, an extended one that you might take a real go at. I want to be able to go all Simon Belmont on some monsters now, yes, you're inspiring me to play something with this. So take that as a good sign.

    Include some like a Whip Feat suitable at level 2, which has something like "If you make a critical hit you may make an Intimidate Check, resisted by their Will Saving Throw. If the Check is successful, the enemy is shaken for 2 rounds, otherwise the enemy is shaken for one round."

    Maybe squeeze another one in there to chain off it like "If you make a critical hit, you may drive the target 5 feet away from you" at a BAB requirement of 12 or so.

    Just some thoughts. Looking forward to more.
    Currently sick as a dog and unable to focus properly. Will heal soon.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less boring - please, leave suggestions, critics and your id

    first of all, thanks for the compliments and the suggestions. Moreover, Arcturus also gave me some good ideas. What about something like this:

    Whip the ground
    Prerequisite: bab+1, exotic weapon proficiency (any whip)
    Effect: while you sling your whip, you fiercely whip the ground as a move action. Every foe in 60 meters that can see you must succeed on a Will saving throw (cd 15+Cha) or become shaken for 1d3 rounds. An enemy who succeed in his saving throw cannot be affected by this effect for 24 hours. This is a mind affecting ability.

    The Hangman
    Prerequiste: bab +12, exotic weapon proficiency (any whip), flayer, longa manus
    Effect: if you succeed to hit the enemy with these aimed attack, you grasp his throat. If your enemy doesn't win an opposed grapple check, he starts to choke. He must do a Constitution check every round to avoid choking, with a stacking malus of -2 every new round (-3 if you're using an hooked whip). On the first round he fails his Constitution check, the enemy lose his breath and is considered fatigued. On the second round he doesn't pass his Constitution check he drop to 0 hp and on the last round in wich he loses the check he fell unconscious. He can try to get free at the start of his rounds with a grapple or escape artist check.

    Guiding Whip
    Prerequisite: bab +3, exotic weapon proficiency (any whip)
    Effect: the character can aim, with a complete action, to a single limb of an enemy. On a successfull hit, the character can use his whip to pull the enemy by the limb, forcing him to move or fall prone. The enemy has to move in a direction decided by the character (he can't move back) at half his speed. On the next enemy's turn, his move action will be considered already done. The enemy can avoid to be grasped with a successfull Reflex saving throw (dc 15 + 1/2 of the character melee modifier)

    Deadly Whip
    Prerequisite: bab +6, exotic weapon proficiency (any whip), flayer
    Effect: the character can add half of his Dexterity modifier to any whip's damage rolls.

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less boring - please, leave suggestions, critics and your id

    Spoiler
    Show
    In all seriousness, this looks very interesting and I like what you've done here...but, I couldn't in good conscious not post this meme.

    Fun fact, as of this posting the dollar to peso amount is actually correct


    That's it. I'm sick of all this "excellent trip weapon" bull that's going on in the d20 system right now. Whips deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

    I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine whip in Mexico for 2,400,000 pesos (that's $189,751.82) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my whip.

    Expert whip-makers spend years working on a single whip and slaughter up to a million cows to produce the finest leather known to mankind.

    Whips are thrice as good as khopeshes for tripping and thrice as good at dealing damage, too. Anything a khopesh can trip, a whip can trip better. I'm pretty sure a whip could easily trip even a gelanitous cube.

    Ever wonder why the United States never bothered conquering Mexico? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Mexican and their whips of pratfalling. Even in Indiana Jones, the American uses the Mexican fighting whip first and foremost because he fears and respects it.

    So what am I saying? Whips are simply the best weapon that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for whips:

    (One-Handed Exotic Weapon)
    1d12 Damage
    19-20 x4 Crit
    +2 to hit and damage
    +4 to trip attempts
    Counts as Masterwork

    (Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)
    2d10 Damage
    17-20 x4 Crit
    +5 to hit and damage
    +8 to trip attempts
    Counts as Masterwork

    Now that seems a lot more representative of the tripping power of whips in real life, don't you think?

    tl;dr = whips need to be better at tripping in d20, see my new stat block.
    Last edited by Rogue Shadows; 2013-01-13 at 11:35 AM.

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    Well, Rogue Shadows, I surely see your point, but aren't those stats a bit overpowered? I mean, not only the one handed whip deals 1d12 of damage, but it also has critical menace on 19-20 on a x4 multiplier! Not counting the +2 to hit and damage. It seems quite too much.

    Anyway, I've updated the first post with all the new feats and even with a new, Improved version of Deadly Whip feat.

    Maybe I'll create even a PrC...

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    Quote Originally Posted by CinuzIta View Post
    Well, Rogue Shadows, I surely see your point, but aren't those stats a bit overpowered? I mean, not only the one handed whip deals 1d12 of damage, but it also has critical menace on 19-20 on a x4 multiplier! Not counting the +2 to hit and damage. It seems quite too much.
    I'm pretty sure he's making a Katana joke.

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    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    Quote Originally Posted by CinuzIta View Post
    Well, Rogue Shadows, I surely see your point, but aren't those stats a bit overpowered? I mean, not only the one handed whip deals 1d12 of damage, but it also has critical menace on 19-20 on a x4 multiplier! Not counting the +2 to hit and damage. It seems quite too much.


    Katanas are Underpowered in d20.

    This is why I don't often make with the jokes...

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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    ...

    My bad! I've never heard of this Katana Joke so I thought you were serious! Ahah

    Edit - now you're spoiler make sense to me!
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-01-13 at 12:46 PM.

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    Quote Originally Posted by CinuzIta View Post
    ...

    My bad! I've never heard of this Katana Joke so I thought you were serious! Ahah

    Edit - now you're spoiler make sense to me!

    Here's the original, preserved for posterity.

    Ingredients

    2oz Djinn
    5oz Water
    1 Lime Wedge


    Instructions

    Pour Djinn and tonic water into a glass filled with ice cubes. Stir well. Garnish with lime wedge. Serve.

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    ok I like what you did with the whip. Now it is a interesting exotic weapon on par with the spiked chain(why are all the worthwhile exotic weapons impossible or a bad idea?).

    The feats are interesting, but should either be made more general or made into a couple tactical feats. Like a chain of three feats that grant stuff.

    Also, I would say just give them full dex to damage at Deadly whip. They have spent three feats on it, it isn't overpowered.
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    ok I like what you did with the whip. Now it is a interesting exotic weapon on par with the spiked chain(why are all the worthwhile exotic weapons impossible or a bad idea?).

    The feats are interesting, but should either be made more general or made into a couple tactical feats. Like a chain of three feats that grant stuff.

    Also, I would say just give them full dex to damage at Deadly whip. They have spent three feats on it, it isn't overpowered.
    I agree about Deadly Whip, dividing it in 4 feats would become too much expensive.

    Personally, I don't like tactical feats that much, because they always seemed to be an expensive mix of either bad and good maneuvers. But on the other hand, effectively, it is more expensive to take all of the feats then to fulfill the tactical feat prerequisite. So what about this:

    Whip Master
    Prerequisite: Dex 15, Sleight of Hand 4 ranks, Bab +8, Weapon Focus (Any whip), Flayer.

    You've mastered a wide array of combat maneuvers with the whip. You're now able to effectively use these three combat maneuvers:

    Longa Manus
    Effect: once per round, when the character hit an enemy with his whip, he can start a grapple check with the enemy. If the enemy fail the check, he is considered to be in a grapple with the character. If the character is using an Hooked Whip, then it deals 5 points of bleeding damage to the grappled enemy each round he remain grappled. The enemy can get free by winning an opposed grapple [or Escape Artist] check.

    Bloody Spin
    Effect: with a standard action, the character can set free a foe blocked by Longa Manus. By doing so, the character pull back his whip causing the hooks to cause great pain to his enemy. The character inflicts the normal whip's damage to the enemy. If the enemy fails a Fortitude saving throw (dc 10+damage dealt) then the damage is doubled. This stacks with a critical hit.

    The Hangman
    Effect: if you succeed to hit the enemy with these aimed attack, you grasp his throat. If your enemy doesn't win an opposed grapple check, he starts to choke. He must do a Constitution check every round to avoid choking, with a stacking malus of -2 every new round (-3 if you're using an hooked whip). On the first round he fails his Constitution check, the enemy lose his breath and is considered fatigued. On the second round he doesn't pass his Constitution check he drop to 0 hp and on the last round in wich he loses the check he fell unconscious. He can try to get free at the start of his rounds with a grapple or escape artist check.

    ----

    Also, since I've seen some Drows using whips, here there are two more Drow Fighter substitution levels. I'm okay with the Hit-And-Run Tactics official substitution level, so I'll leave it as the first level.

    DROW FIGHTER

    Whip Focus (Ex)
    Level: 2
    Replaces: 2nd level's Fighter bonus feat
    Benefit: Upon selecting this feat, you gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls made with whips. This bonus does not stack with the bonus provided by Weapon Focus, but is treated as the equivalent of Weapon Focus for purpose of qualyfing for feats, prestige classes, and so on that requires the feat.

    Whirling Defense (Ex)
    Level: 6
    Replaces: 6th level's Fighter bonus feat
    Benefit: Now that you have learned how to efficiently use a whip to fight, you know how to defend yourself effectively on all sides, swinging your whip all around you and forcing your enemies to move carefully. All enemies in your threatened area are forced to move at half their normal speed.
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-01-13 at 03:04 PM.

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    problem... the whip doesn't threaten.
    Would be better to give it a threaten reach out to its normal reach minus adjacent as the 6th level feat or some thing.

    perhapce hand out a 5ft threaten reach with flayer, then add a feat that extends it to full normal reach.
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    You got a point! Mh, I don't think I'm gonna put it as the Drow Substitution level, as I really think that everyone should be able to threaten with the whip. So:

    Flayer:
    Prerequisite: bab +1, Exotic Weapon Proficiency [any whip].
    Effect: Attacking with a whip when adjacent to a foe doesn't provoke attack of opportunity any more. Moreover you threaten the enemies 15 feet far from you when you're using a whip, as with a normal reach weapon.

    Vexing Foe:
    Prerequisite: BaB +5, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Any whip), Flayer.
    Effect: You threaten all the enemies in your threatened area, not only those enemies 15 feet far from you.

    Also, what do you think about the Drows' substitution levels and about the tactical feat's prerequisite?

    Edit - First post updated with new version of Deadly Whip and Flayer feats. Added also Vexing Foe.
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-01-13 at 03:50 PM.

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    well it has a feat tax(weapon focus), a hidden feat tax(EWP), and a decent feat(flayer). The skills are low enough not to be an issue, and the BAB requirement is nice and high.

    You should note for the grapple portion that the whip user isn't considered grappled...

    What is the DC on the hangman? why not make it a fort save versus DC 10+1/2 BAB+the users dex or strength modifier?
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    Whoops, I forgot The Hangman's DC. Well 10+ 1/2 BaB + Str looks good to me!

    Well, I don't know what else could be done to make whips more interesting. Any idea out there?
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-01-13 at 04:13 PM.

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    There's always the whip dagger from the 3.O Arms and Equipment Guide which does 1d6 damage lethal and can do damage to armored/natural armored foes and is basically everything the normal whip is. It's exotic, but so is the whip. I think there's also a whip-based prestige class in sword and fist that you might want to check out, though I forget what it's called, that has some fun stuff for whips that you might be able to port into 3.5 feats.

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    Default Re: trying to make whips less useless - please, leave suggestions, critics and your i

    Aye, I've checked both the weapon and the prc. Actually, without noticing it, I've already ported some of the PrC's special abilities as Feats. What I could add would be the ability to take small objects with the whip and so on, but I'd like to leave the Prc some edge, otherwise it would become a useless Prc (even tough it is from 3.0 I think it could be used in 3.5 without much problem)

    As you said there is the whip dagger from that manual [it is also present in Sword and Fist], but I don't think I'll focus too much on specific weapons.

    Maybe I could create another weapon, some kind of flail, but I'd like to have suggestions about it, cause I don't really know how I could make it different from a normal whip (bleeding and exagerated critical multiplier maybe?)

    I'm also creating a prc. Actually, it isn't anything new: it's the Lasher prc from Sword and Fist, but in 5 levels and maybe with another special ability. Any suggestion on a good cap ability?
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-01-14 at 09:41 AM.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    This is the Lasher from Sword and Fist, reworked by me.

    Lasher

    Requirements:
    Base Attack Bonus: +6
    Skills: Sleight of Hands 4 ranks, Use Rope 2 ranks
    Feats: Weapon Focus (Any whip) , Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Any whip), Flayer, Combat Reflexes.
    Special: The lasher must own a whip, an hooked whip or whip dagger. Usually, a lasher owns a whip and an hooked whip or a whip dagger (or, if wealthy enough, the mighty versions of those weapons).

    d10
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|+1|+0|+2|+0|Superior Weapon Focus, Third Hand

    2nd|+2|+0|+3|+0|Crack of Fate

    3rd|+3|+1|+3|+1|Lashing Whip, Stunning Snap

    4th|+4|+1|+4|+1|Crack of Doom

    5th|+5|+1|+4|+1|Death Spiral, Opportunist

    [/table]
    Skill Points: 4+Int. Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Spot (Wis), Use Rope (Dex).

    Superior Weapon Focus (Ex): Stacking on top of any existing Weapon Focus bonus, this ability grants a Lasher an additional +1 to attack rolls with any whip he has Weapon Focus with.

    Third Hand (Ex): At 1st level, a Lasher's precision with the whips allows her to use them like a third hand—a third hand at the end of a flexible 15-foot-long arm—as a standard action. Depositing a lashed object into your hand is a move-equivalent action. Note: A lasher generally uses a normal whip to perform abilities granted by third hand, because a whip dagger or an hooked whip deals its damage to the object or individual grasped, while a regular whip does not. Sometimes, this is not a problem, especially if the item grasped has hardness, but other times inflicting damage by using third hand is a bad idea. Thus, most lashers carry two whips. A lasher successfully performs a task if her attack roll equals or exceeds the DC for a given task:

    - Punch a button, snuff a candle flame, flick a coin lying along the ground, etc. as a move-equivalent action. Range 15 feet, DC 15.
    Retrieve an unattended object of up to 20 pounds, and deposit into your off hand as a move-equivalent action. Range 15 feet, DC 20.

    - Firmly wrap the end of your whip around a pole, spike, or other likely projection up to 15 feet away as a move-equivalent action. The DC is 22. If used to wrap around a projection at the top of a wall, reduce the DC to climb the wall by 5. If the point of attachment is optimal on a ceiling fixture, you could swing over a chasm of up to 25 feet wide. You can also wrap items heavier than 20 pounds, but you cannot automatically flick them into your off hand (but you could drag them). You can unwrap the end of your whip from the entangled object as a free action.

    - When the victim of a precipitous fall, you can give up your Reflex save in an attempt to use your whip to snag a likely projection, pillar, rafter, etc., within 15 feet of the edge of the pit, cliff, bridge, etc. Generally, an unattached item (such as a statue, table, etc.) must weight twice as much as you for you to arrest your fall, otherwise you merely pull it after you). You may attempt to snag a friend or foe standing near the edge of the precipice as you fall. You make a ranged touch attack against another creature's AC (the friend does not apply his Dexterity bonus while an unwilling friend or a foe applies their Dexterity modifier to AC), If you hit, you wrap your whip around the target, who must make a successful Strength check against DC 20 to arrest both you and himself. An unsuccessful Strength check sends both you and your target into the precipice. You can unwrap the end of your whip from the entangled object as a free action.

    Crack of Fate (Ex): At 2nd level, a Lasher can take one extra attack per round with a whip, an hooked whip or whip dagger. The attack is made with the Lasher's highest base attack bonus, but every attack in that round suffers a —2 penalty. The lasher must use the full attack action to use Crack of Fate.

    Lashing Whip (Ex): At 3rd level, the Lasher adds a +2 damage bonus to her whip, hooked whip and whip dagger. If using a whip, she adds +2 subdual damage or +2 regular damage, at her option. If the Lasher has already gained Weapon Specialization from another class (Fighter, for example), the damage bonus stacks.

    Stunning Snap (Ex): At 3rd level, a Lasher can use a whip, an hooked whip or whip dagger to stun a creature instead of inflicting subdual or normal damage. The Lasher can use this ability once per round, but no more than once per level per day. The Lasher must declare she is using a stun attack before making an attack roll. (A missed attack roll ruins the attempt.) A foe struck by a whip, hooked whip or whip dagger must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 10 + the lasher's level + Strength modifier), in addition to receiving normal damage (subdual or standard). If the saving throw fails, the opponent is stunned for one round. A stunned character cannot act and loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, while attackers get a +2 bonus on attack rolls against a stunned opponent. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned by the lasher's stunning attack.

    Crack of Doom (Ex): At 4th level, a Lasher can take two extra attacks per round with a whip, hooked whip or whip dagger. This ability supersedes Crack of Fate (the abilities do not stack). The attack is at the Lasher's highest base attack bonus, but each attack (the extra one and normal ones) suffers a —4 penalty. The lasher must use the full attack action to use Crack of Doom.

    Death Spiral (Sup): At 5th level, the Lasher gains transcendental understanding of her whip, hooked whip or whip dagger. Once per day, she can spin the whip over her head with supernatural speed. All foes within a 15-foot radius of the Lasher must make a Reflex save against a DC equal to the Lasher's attack roll. Opponents who fail are stunned for 1d4+1 rounds. Stunned opponents must make a successful Fortitude save (DC 18) or become helpless for 1d4—1 rounds (minimum 1 round). Allies (as selected by the lasher) in range are spared the effects of the death spiral. The Death Spiral is a supernatural ability.

    Opportunist (Ex): At 5th level, once per round the Lasher can make an attack of opportunity against an opponent who has just been struck for damage in melee by another character. This attack counts as the Lasher’s attack of opportunity for that round against that creature: even a Lasher with the Combat Reflexes feat can’t use the opportunist ability more than once per round.


    So? Opinions, comments?


    Edit - forgot to add another feat. This one is called:

    Make Them Bleed
    Prerequisite: BaB +9, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Any Whip), Flayer, Combat Reflexes.
    Effect: As a standard action, you can make a single attack against one enemy. If the attack roll is successful, you deal damage normally but the enemy also start suffering bleed damage equals to 2+1 per any Whip Feats you possess (including these one).
    The Whip Feats are: Flayer, Vexing Foe, Whip Master, Whip the Ground, Guiding Whip, Deadly Whip, Make Them Bleed, Weapon Specialization (Any Whip).
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-01-14 at 03:48 PM.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    Technically speaking, you don't threaten any squares with a whip. I understand the intent, but the RAW is contradictory.
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    Technically speaking, you don't threaten any squares with a whip. I understand the intent, but the RAW is contradictory.
    Look at the main post, I've created two feats to fix that.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    I know, but since neither is required for the Sub level, it just becomes a feat tax to even USE the ability.

    I'd add the following to the description: "You may use this ability even though you do not normally threaten squares with a whip"
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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt. Cookie View Post
    I know, but since neither is required for the Sub level, it just becomes a feat tax to even USE the ability.

    I'd add the following to the description: "You may use this ability even though you do not normally threaten squares with a whip"
    Oh you were talking about the substitution level! You're right, I missed that, thank you for the suggestion! :)

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    When a problem comes along
    You must whip it
    Before the cream sets out too long
    You must whip it
    When something's goin' wrong
    You must whip it
    Spoiler
    Show
    Crack that whip
    Give the past a slip
    Step on a crack
    Break your momma's back

    When a problem comes along
    You must whip it
    Before the cream sets out too long
    You must whip it
    When something's goin' wrong
    You must whip it

    Now whip it
    Into shape
    Shape it up
    Get straight
    Go forward
    Move ahead
    Try to detect it
    It's not too late
    To whip it
    Whip it good

    When a good time turns around
    You must whip it
    You will never live it down
    Unless you whip it
    No one gets away
    Until they whip it

    I say whip it
    Whip it good
    I say whip it
    Whip it good

    Crack that whip
    Give the past a slip
    Step on a crack
    Break your momma's back

    When a problem comes along
    You must whip it
    Before the cream sets out too long
    You must whip it
    When something's goin' wrong
    You must whip it

    Now whip it
    Into shape
    Shape it up
    Get straight
    Go forward
    Move ahead
    Try to detect it
    It's not too late
    To whip it
    Into shape
    Shape it up
    Get straight
    Go forward
    Move ahead
    Try to detect it
    It's not too late
    To whip it
    Well, whip it good
    DEVO - WHIP IT LYRICS

    This is good work.
    (I assume the hooked whip is exotic?)
    Also, Longa Manus is confusing if they try moving the grapple. Maybe allow auto escape as a full round action?

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    yes it's an exotic weapon! I don't get what you do intend by confusing..that feat works the same way the monsters' ability "improved grab" do: you get hit by a tail or a tentacle (in this case, a whip), the enemy can immediatly start a grapple check, if he wins you're in a grapple with him
    Last edited by CinuzIta; 2013-01-18 at 02:55 AM.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    I'd just houserule it as a martial weapon and call it a day. It lets you do a couple cool things, but it doesn't threaten and can't hurt armored people. Sucks if you have to sink an Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat into it, but if you just had to have martial weapon proficiency and you wanted to trip someone while making sure they can't reach you, it's awesome.
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    ClericGuy

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    the whip will remain an exotic weapon and I'll tell you why: first of all it's not such a common weapon, so it's by definition an exotic weapon. Moreover, I highly doubt that you, me or anyone else could use efficiently a whip with something like 20-30 hooks on all its lenght without getting seriously wounded. It is a weapon that requires some special training on it, so i'd logically put it in exotic category.

    Anyway, this whip deals damage to armoured foes, as it's specified in its description..

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    Quote Originally Posted by CinuzIta View Post
    yes it's an exotic weapon! I don't get what you do intend by confusing..that feat works the same way the monsters' ability "improved grab" do: you get hit by a tail or a tentacle (in this case, a whip), the enemy can immediatly start a grapple check, if he wins you're in a grapple with him
    What's confusing is that grappling is usually reciprocal, but this is not as the whip user is not considered grappled.

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    I see..now that I think at it, I could easely change "grappled" with "immobilised"..the effect of the feat would be the same, and it would less confusing..escaping from the whip would require a dex or an escape artist's check! Does it looks good?

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    Default Re: [D&D 3.5] Whip 'em to death - New feats, substitution levels, weapons etc for whi

    Quote Originally Posted by CinuzIta View Post
    the whip will remain an exotic weapon and I'll tell you why: first of all it's not such a common weapon, so it's by definition an exotic weapon. Moreover, I highly doubt that you, me or anyone else could use efficiently a whip with something like 20-30 hooks on all its lenght without getting seriously wounded. It is a weapon that requires some special training on it, so i'd logically put it in exotic category.

    Anyway, this whip deals damage to armoured foes, as it's specified in its description..
    I meant the normal whip. It is a bit difficult to get that snapping motion down, but using a sword effectively isn't simple either.
    My Homebrew (Free to use, don't even bother asking. PM me if you do, though; I'd love to hear stories).

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