Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 9 of 9
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Razor Skipdisks for Fun and Profit [3.5, Scout PrC]

    Skiprider of the Icy Sea


    Far to the north, land gives way to vast sheets of ice. In the permanently-frigid temperatures, these expansive ice sheets never melt, stretching for miles over the polar ocean; a smooth surface of dazzling white ice broken by jagged icebergs and occasional openings to the water below.

    Even this inhospitable terrain is home to tribes of humans and demi-humans who eke a rough existence from the ice. They survive by hunting and fishing through holes in the ice, living semi-nomadic existences as they follow pods of whales, families of seals, and schools of fish.

    Over the centuries, polar denizens have also developed fighting techniques uniquely suited to their icy environment. Among the most difficult and most deadly is skipriding. A technique pioneered by halfling tribes, skipriding allows a practitioner to slide along a flat surface perched on a razor skipdisk (Frostburn, p. 77), flinging more deadly, bouncing skipdisks as they go.

    Becoming a Skiprider of the Icy Sea
    To follow the path of the skiprider, you must be adept, dexterous, and quick. You must also be skilled at fighting on the move and thrive in situations where speed and finesse overcome brute force. The quickest way to become a skiprider is by taking levels in the scout class. Indeed, it is impossible to become a skiprider without at least 3 levels in this class. Some skipriders also choose to take levels in classes like barbarian and fighter that enhance their fighting skills.

    Hit Dice: d8
    Requirements:
    Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Razor Skipdisk), Quick Draw
    Skills: Balance 8 ranks
    Special: Skirmish +1d6/+1AC
    Class Skills:
    The skiprider of the icy sea’s class skills are: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Speak Language (n/a), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex).
    Skill Points at Each Level: 8 + int modifier

    Table 1: Skiprider of the Icy Sea
    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
    1|+0|+0|+2|+0|Skirmish, skipride
    2|+1|+0|+3|+0|Blinding spray, skipdisk trick, skirmish (+1d6)
    3|+2|+1|+3|+1|Skipdisk collision (1/round)
    4|+3|+1|+4|+1|Skip like a stone, skirmish (+1d6/+1AC)
    5|+3|+1|+4|+1|Skipdisk trick
    6|+4|+2|+5|+2|Skipdisk collision (2/round), skirmish (+2d6/+1AC)
    7|+5|+2|+5|+2|Skip like a stone
    8|+6|+2|+6|+2|Skipdisk trick, skirmish (+2d6/+2AC)
    9|+6|+3|+6|+3|Skipdisk collision (3/round)
    10|+7|+3|+7|+3|Skipdisk trick, skirmish (+3d6/+2AC)[/table]

    Class Features

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A skiprider gains no proficiency with any weapons or armor.

    Skirmish (Ex): Your skiprider levels stack with any class that grants the skirmish ability to determine your extra damage and bonus to AC when you are skirmishing.

    Skipride (Ex): As a skiprider, your ability to slide over the ground on your razor skipdisk is the foundation on which your combat style is based. Initiating this ability is a full-round action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. As a part of this action, you must move at least 10 feet away from your starting location and can move up to 1.5 times your base speed (rounded down). In the last few feet of this movement, you slide a razor skipdisk onto the ground and leap lightly upon it, which requires that you succeed on a Balance check (DC 20 + 1 for every 5 feet by which you exceeded 10 feet of movement while initiating the ability). For example, a skiprider who initiated this ability while moving 20 feet would be required to succeed on a DC 22 balance check. You can only initiate this ability on a surface that can support your weight and that is not considered difficult terrain.

    Once you successfully initiate this ability, you can continue to move in subsequent rounds without taking an action to do so as long as you have adequate speed to continue. You can use Jump and Tumble skills while skipriding, but at a -2 penalty. Once your speed drops to 0 feet while moving in this manner, the ability has ended and you must initiate it again to gain its benefits. The speed and duration of this movement is determined by the surface over which you are sliding.
    • Over terrain that is reasonably solid but not particularly slippery (i.e. exposed natural rock, hard packed sand or clay, or a roughly-made stone or dirt road) you continue at your initial speed for 1 round with your speed decreasing by 5 feet for each subsequent round.
    • Over terrain that is slipperier or smoother than normal (i.e. ice, polished marble floor, an area that has been affected by the grease spell) you continue at your initial speed for 5 rounds with your speed decreasing by 5 feet for each subsequent round.
    • Over terrain that is impeded or soft but not considered difficult terrain (i.e. agricultural land, a field of grass, a cave floor strewn with minor debris) your speed during the first round after initiating the ability is reduced by 5 feet and continues to decrease by 10 feet for each subsequent round.
    • Rounds spent skipriding over downward-sloping terrain do not count toward your skipriding duration. Each round spent skipriding over upward-sloping terrain counts as two rounds for the purpose of determining your skipriding duration.

    Steering a razor skipdisk is difficult. However, it can be done by shifting your weight and allowing your hands to drag strategically on the ground. At 1st level, you have poor maneuverability while moving in this manner. Your maneuverability improves to average at level 4 and good at level 7.

    Because this ability allows you to move without taking a specific action to do so, it allows you to perform a variety of other actions while moving, including full round attacks. However, you must move at least 5 feet between attacks. You cannot, however, use any forms of movement other than skipriding while using this ability, or the ability ends. You can, of course, take move-equivalent actions that do not involve actual movement.

    Blinding Spray (Ex): At 2nd level you learn to tilt your skipdisk in just the right way, causing it to kick up a spray of dust, snow, or other fine particulate matter. Once per encounter, when you are using your skipride ability, you create a cloud of fine particles in a 5-foot radius centered on you. All creatures within this radius other than you must make a Reflex save (DC 10 + your class level + your Dex modifier) or be blinded for 1 round. This radius travels with you as you move and lasts until your current use of your skipride ability ends.

    Skipdisk Collision (Ex): At 3rd level, your control over your razor skipdisk allows you, once per round while you are skipdisk riding, to intentionally bounce off of opponents as you ride, gashing them with the disk’s edge as you slide past. This maneuver gives you two benefits. First, you may make one attack against the creature you choose to target with this ability, which resolves as a melee attack with your razor skipdisk. This attack is in addition to any other attacks you may choose to make during your turn. Second, you can use the collision to turn more sharply than you would normally be able to. Immediately upon utilizing this ability, you may change direction once as if you had perfect maneuverability. You can use this ability once per round beginning at 3rd level and gain additional uses as shown on Table 1.

    Skip Like a Stone (Ex): At 4th level, you learn to use your unique movement mode to traverse surfaces that would otherwise not support your weight. While using your skipride ability, you can move without penalty across water, thin ice, or other surfaces that would not normally support your weight. Because you are not actually touching the surfaces, you can also move across lava, acid, and similar substances without taking damage. You must end your turn on a surface that can support your weight and you must move at least 40 feet during the round, otherwise you begin to sink.

    At 7th level, you learn how to use your skipdisk's spinning, floating movement to hover over the ground for short periods. You gain a fly speed while skipriding equal to your current skipriding speed, but you must end each turn on a surface that can support your weight. Your maneuverability while flying is the same as your normal skipriding maneuverability, but your maneuverability improves one step for the purposes of moving up and down.

    Skipdisk Trick (Ex): At 2nd, 5th, 8th, and 10th levels, you chose one of the following thrown weapon tricks. Once chosen, the trick is a permanent part of your repertoire and cannot be changed. You cannot choose the same trick more than once. You can only apply one skipdisk trick to each attack, though if you can make multiple attacks per round you can apply different skipdisk tricks to different attacks. You cannot apply a skipdisk trick to an attack of opportunity. You can use these tricks only when wielding a razor skipdisk.
    1. Bonus Feat – Instead of choosing a new skipdisk trick, you gain a bonus feat. This feat must be from the list of fighter bonus feats and must apply to thrown weapons. You only gain the benefit of this feat when using it in conjunction with a razor skipdisk.
    2. Boomerang Bounce – You can bounce a thrown skipdisk off an opponent and back to your hands. You make a normal ranged attack against the opponent. If the attack succeeds, the skipdisk deals damage as normal and bounces back, arriving in a square within 5 feet of where you were when you made the attack roll. If you have a free hand, you can catch the skipdisk but must make a DC 10 Dexterity check as a free action to do so.
    3. Curving Throw – You add spin and tilt to your thrown skipdisk, allowing it to curve around obstacles. As long as you have line-of-sight on the target, you can ignore the effects of concealment, soft cover, cover from low obstacles, and normal cover, as long as the opponent is within 5 feet of the edge of the object providing cover.
    4. Floating Toss – Your razor skipdisk seems to float up and down and side-to-side unpredictably as it hurtles toward your opponent. The target is unable to dodge its shifting flight effectively, and is considered flat-footed against your attack. You take a -2 penalty on your attack roll for this attack and cannot use this trick if the skipdisk touches the ground before striking its target, meaning that its range increment is reduced to 10 feet.
    5. Ranged Trip – You may make a trip attempt against an opponent farther than 5 feet away. You make a normal ranged attack against the opponent. If the attack succeeds, in addition to dealing damage as normal, you make a trip attempt using either your Strength or Dexterity modifier and with a +4 bonus. Other modifiers may apply on this opposed check (see page 158 of the Player’s Handbook). If you win, the opponent is tripped. The benefit of this trick does not stack with the benefit of the Improved Trip feat.
    6. Ricochet Throw – You can bounce a thrown skipdisk off of one opponent to strike another. You make a normal ranged attack against the first opponent. If the attack succeeds, you may make a second attack against another opponent at a -5 penalty on your attack roll. The second opponent must be within 10 feet of the first. You can only use this ability once per round and can only make one ricochet per attack.
    7. Shield Disk – You can use a skipdisk as a makeshift shield. You activate this ability at the beginning of your turn, holding a skipdisk in one hand (it can be your off hand) and forgoing any attacks with that hand. You gain a +1 shield bonus to armor class for the round, unless you choose to make an attack with that skipdisk, at which point the AC bonus goes away. If the skipdisk has an enhancement bonus to attack rolls, you also gain that bonus as a shield bonus to AC.
    8. Skipdisk Pull - When you use this trick, your thrown skipdisk spins aggressively through the air. Your razor skipdisk range increment increases to 30 feet when thrown through the air.


    I hope you enjoy it. Any and all comments, concerns, suggestions, or criticisms are welcome. I'm especially interested in ideas for a capstone ability, so if anyone has any, let me know!
    Last edited by Mephibosheth; 2013-04-15 at 08:49 AM.
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Razor Skipdisks for Fun and Profit [3.5, Scout PrC]

    Hmmm, there's really only two (well, perhaps three) issues off the top of my head.

    1) What the heck is a Razor Slipdisk? I gave a quick google search and didn't come up with anything for it related to DnD. It may help to provide the statistics for the weapon that's so central to the prestige class somewhere.

    2) The skirmish ability progression seems... wierd. Every prestige class I know of that grants skirmish/sudden strike/sneak attack has its own progression rather than listing that it stacks. But I suppose its about the same as just putting down skirmish +xd6/+x there.

    3) Does your starting speed for skipdisk riding equal your normal speed, or 1.5 times your normal speed (as your speed during the initiation maneuver?). Secondly, can you use Collision during the initialization movement?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    yuk Re: Razor Skipdisks for Fun and Profit [3.5, Scout PrC]

    Thanks for the comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amoren View Post
    1) What the heck is a Razor Slipdisk? I gave a quick google search and didn't come up with anything for it related to DnD. It may help to provide the statistics for the weapon that's so central to the prestige class somewhere.
    A razor skipdisk is a thrown weapon that appears in Frostburn. Basically, it's a thick metal disk with a knob on one side and a smooth convex surface on the other. The edges of the disk are sharpened. The wielder holds the knob and hurls the disk either along the ground or through the air. Its shape allows it to bounce and slide along the ground and its range increment increases on icy terrain.

    Here's a picture.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amoren View Post
    2) The skirmish ability progression seems... wierd. Every prestige class I know of that grants skirmish/sudden strike/sneak attack has its own progression rather than listing that it stacks. But I suppose its about the same as just putting down skirmish +xd6/+x there.
    You're right. I hadn't noticed that. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by Amoren View Post
    3) Does your starting speed for skipdisk riding equal your normal speed, or 1.5 times your normal speed (as your speed during the initiation maneuver?). Secondly, can you use Collision during the initialization movement?
    Your starting speed for skipdisk riding varies based on how fast you move when you initiate the ability. If you move 40 feet during the round you initiate the ability, your speed for the subsequent round is 40 feet and then decreases based on the terrain. Unless, of course, you're on soft or impeded terrain, in which case your speed for the round after you initiate the ability is 35 feet and then decreases from there. I know it's a little complicated, but I like how variable it is based on how fast you move during the initiation round.

    I hope that answers your questions. Thanks again for the comments.
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Kobold

    Join Date
    Aug 2010

    Default Re: Razor Skipdisks for Fun and Profit [3.5, Scout PrC]

    It might need a bit of clarification for that then (or I was just tired and read it wrong). It might also help to have a note referencing where the Skipdisk weapon is in the books. :3

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Razor Skipdisks for Fun and Profit [3.5, Scout PrC]

    Probably a good idea. Added. I think they're such unique weapons with so much potential for interesting builds and special maneuvers, but the stats aren't that great in-and-of-themselves and there aren't any feats or PrCs (that I know of) that take advantage of them. So I thought that it might be fun to design a class around them and spice up the possibilities a little bit. Thanks a lot for your comments!
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Banned
     
    Answerer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Razor Skipdisks for Fun and Profit [3.5, Scout PrC]

    This concept is awesome.

    However, I have a significant problem with this class: its entire schtick is useless in the air, and it starts at 6th and is 10 levels long. An ECL 15 character who has devoted 2/3 of his class levels to something that cannot be used in the air is... basically pointless.

    I think this class deserves, basically, to fix all three problems. If you could start at, say, 4, and the class was 5 levels long, and it gave you a way to use this ability in flight, the class would be a lot better. In general, the more focused a PrC is, the shorter it should be: this class revolves around not just one weapon, but one specific trick with that specific weapon. That is extremely focused, and therefore the class should be able to make you a master of the technique in fewer levels.
    Last edited by Answerer; 2013-01-15 at 08:30 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Razor Skipdisks for Fun and Profit [3.5, Scout PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Answerer View Post
    This concept is awesome.

    However, I have a significant problem with this class: its entire schtick is useless in the air, and it starts at 6th and is 10 levels long. An ECL 15 character who has devoted 2/3 of his class levels to something that cannot be used in the air is... basically pointless.

    I think this class deserves, basically, to fix all three problems. If you could start at, say, 4, and the class was 5 levels long, and it gave you a way to use this ability in flight, the class would be a lot better. In general, the more focused a PrC is, the shorter it should be: this class revolves around not just one weapon, but one specific trick with that specific weapon. That is extremely focused, and therefore the class should be able to make you a master of the technique in fewer levels.
    Thanks very much for your comments. I'm glad you enjoy the concept. I definitely see your point about the level of specialization represented by this PrC, but I think I disagree with the extent to which the lack of a fly speed hinders it. First, don't forget that razor skipdisks are thrown weapons. Admittedly, they don't have a great range, but they can always be used against airborn opponents, as can most of the skipdisk tricks. I may actually add an ability that increases the range increment of a thrown skipdisk. Second, I don't think that each PrC should address all of the weaknesses of a particular class. It's true that the lack of flight is a major hindrance to martial characters, but there's definitely a place for ground-based combat even at higher levels. Third, nothing about this class takes away alternative fighting styles. They still get full skirmish progression, high skill points, and other abilities that are useful when not skipriding.

    That said, your point about a fly speed is well-taken and I've modified the skip like a stone ability to include a limited fly speed. Probably not what you were looking for, but hopefully at least a workable compromise. I also tried to compress the PrC into 5 levels, but couldn't figure out a way to make it work with all the abilities I wanted it to have. Especially if I add a range-increasing ability. It seemed like too much too quickly. Maybe I'm wrong. I probably am, as I tend to under-power just about everything I homebrew. I'll keep thinking about it.

    Thanks again for the comments!
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Banned
     
    Answerer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Razor Skipdisks for Fun and Profit [3.5, Scout PrC]

    Quote Originally Posted by Mephibosheth View Post
    Second, I don't think that each PrC should address all of the weaknesses of a particular class. It's true that the lack of flight is a major hindrance to martial characters, but there's definitely a place for ground-based combat even at higher levels.
    Unfortunately, there's not really any place for ground-based combat at higher levels. Sad but true. Unless a DM is specifically catering to melee, almost everything at that level is capable of flight.

    Anyway, you also misunderstand me: I did not say that this PrC needed to give a flight speed, I said it ought to not force the character to stay grounded. Sure, not every PrC can fix every problem, but it shouldn't be adding problems.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Mephibosheth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    At the home of the blues
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Razor Skipdisks for Fun and Profit [3.5, Scout PrC]

    I definitely agree that D&D, at least as it seems understood in the online gaming community, heavily emphasizes movement in 3 dimensions after 5th level or so. You're right, there are a lot of ways to gain the ability to fly and a lot of possible opponents who aren't tied to the ground.

    That said, in my experience, to say that "almost everything at that level is capable of flight" isn't true. Maybe my DMs have been slouches when it comes to designing challenging combats. Maybe the style of campaigns I've played doesn't lend itself to aerial fights. Everyone's experience of D&D is different. But even a quick glance through the various Monster Manuals reveals many monsters CR 15 and above that can't fly or that have other things to do with their abilities. So while I think we're in agreement that the lack of flight is a serious, perhaps overwhelming, challenge to ground-based melee characters, the ability to fly isn't as pervasive as you're making it out to be.

    And even if it is the case that most monsters of CR 15 and above can fly, there are all sorts of extenuating circumstances that might limit their aerial mobility. Close quarters (it's called Dungeons & Dragons for a reason), spells/abilities/items that can limit their mobility, bad weather, low maneuverability, lack of cover from ranged attacks, and all sorts of other things can bring flying monsters down. Even something as simple as needing to swoop down to attack land-based opponents can bring them within a melee character's reach. That, and the fact that the rules for 3D movement aren't the easiest to implement, especially for the lower maneuverability levels. My DMs have typically used them as unique, interesting combat features rather than as the main mode of combat, mostly out of a desire to avoid dealing with them.

    That's not the real argument here, though. Nor is it something on which we're likely to agree, since like I said, everyone has different experiences of D&D. Agree to disagree?

    Your concern is that the skiprider's primary class ability functions only on a surface of some kind. And you're right; it does. I've tried to picture ways for it to function in the air and just can't get there, intuitively, at least not for long periods of time. I think the skip like a stone ability gets there, but it isn't anything like what you're describing. If you have any insights, please let me know. I've thought about skipping off the clouds or riding on walls and am still thinking about ways to potentially incorporate them, but I can't wrap my mind around how a movement style based on skipping would work in the open air.

    I also disagree that this PrC forces characters to stay grounded. And nor are they any worse off than conventional scouts who, baring access to magic from outside sources, are also tied to the ground. Yes, a skiprider is more effective on the ground. Yes, their defining ability functions on the ground. But that's far from the only thing they can do. Like I said, they still have full skirmish progression, skill points, ranged attacks (with special fun tricks!), potions, items, and magical comrades to help them contribute in a 3 dimensional combat. After all, joining the enemy in the air is not the only way to deal with a flying combat.

    So, that's what I think on this issue. I hope I'm not coming off as dismissive or harsh. I guess I just don't have the same experience of D&D that you do. Thanks for your comments, though!
    The Scroungers Campaign Setting
    Main Thread | Crunch

    Other Projects
    The Giver d20
    Other Homebrew
    A Zombiemageddon Campaign Journal!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •