Completely Dysfunctional Handbook [3.5]

[TuggyNE]

I realized that we never classified the dysfunction with flicker. Shadow magic spells are called mysteries, so I guess we need a little section just for flicker.

Posting description for convenience.

Mystery|Flicker|Invokes 50% miss chance if cast in response to attack, standard action to cast|1|34|3.5

Taking 16-20 in thread 3.

Maybe we should have a section for spell-ish things that aren't spells or powers (which would include invocations and incarnum, but not maneuvers/stances).

Also, I'll pick up 21-25 for now.

[nedz]

We are slipping on this, RL has been very distracting of late.
I'll grab 26-30

[TuggyNE]

We are slipping on this, RL has been very distracting of late.
I'll grab 26-30

Indeed!

Monster(?)|Dancer of Death (ToM)|Miscounts 60' speed as 10 squares|3|20|3.5
Spell|Speak Rock to Mud (MoI)|Misspells rock as "ruck"|3|20|3.5
PrC|Foe Hunter (Masters of the Wild)|Misspelled as "Toe Hunter"*|3|20|3.5
Skill|Ride, epic|Failing a DC 50 check for free-action control automatically allows move-action control with no check|3|21|3.5
Equipment|Morphing WSA|On a double weapon, possible to morph away the head with the morphing ability|3|22|3.5
Spell|Vestigewrack (ToM)|Spell text overrides statblock, changing to a Fort save, which is then ignored by all targets|3|22|3.5
Feat|Summon Good Monster|Grants Diehard to summons, but summons are dismissed upon reaching 0 HP anyway|3|22|PF
Skill|Ride|Able to control others' mounts in combat without riding them*|3|22|3.5
Skill Trick|Sudden Draw|Only usable if you threaten an area without your hidden weapon|3|23|3.5
Feat(?)|Mercurial Strike (DrCmp)|As Sudden Draw, but must be unarmed|3|23|3.5
Base Class|Wild Defender|Gain Smite Evil, no alignment restriction|3|23|3.5
Equipment|Greatsword/longsword|Can't do piercing damage|3|23|3.PF
Equipment|Bows|Can't shoot bottles|3|23|3.PF
Monster|Mind Flayer of Thoon (MMV)|Stipulates "greater resurrection" in some cases|3|24|3.5
Monster|Swarms|Fine/Diminutive swarms immune to weapon damage, despite members not being immune (e.g. toads)|3|24|3.PF
Spell|Seething Eyebane (BoVD)|Does not block gaze attacks|3|25|3.5

[nedz]

Maybe we should have a section for spell-ish things that aren't spells or powers (which would include invocations and incarnum, but not maneuvers/stances).

We already have sections for invocations, incarnum, and manoeuvres/stances.

The invocation and incarnum ones are quite small, maybe they could be merged ?

Spell|Hardening|Unlimited stacking|3|26|3.5
Mystery|Flicker||3|26|3.5
Misc|Hot or Cold weather|Damage is untyped|3|26|3.5
Spell|Ray of enfeeblement|Stops your strength falling below 1|3|26|3.5
PrC|Tenebrous Apostate|Umbral Body usage|3|26|3.5
Monster|Master of the Hunt[MM5]|Gets a morale bonus to which it is immune|3|27|3.5
Monster|Bloodfiend Locusts|Creates Fiendish Vampire spawn: Illegal template stacking|3|27|3.5
Mystery|Black Fire|Shapeable, but area is too small|3|27|3.5
Spell|Polymorph Any Object|Cannot turn objects into creatures, and yet it can|3|27|3.5
Misc|Enemies|Hostile creatures are not your enemy so no AoO|3|28|3.5
Spell|Combust (SpC)|Can set fire to objects over 25lbs/level|3|28|3.5
Feat|Robilar's Gambit|Can only provoke once|3|29|3.5
Equipment|Alchemical items|Not magical, but only spellcasters can make them|3|29|3.5
Equipment|Spell component pouch|Contains living creatures (Fixed in LOM)|3|29|3.5

[Deepbluediver]

We are slipping on this, RL has been very distracting of late.

I love this thread, and I've been a lurker here for a long time (plus I try to point it out to other posters as often as possible). If some one can explain to me exactly what it is I need to do, I'd be glad to try and help out.

[The Viscount]

The "Dancer of Death" is a monster, but is actually named Deadly Dancer.

Mercurial Strike is indeed a feat.

Your help would be welcome, Deepbluediver. We compile the dysfunctions as presented in the dysfunctional rules thread and put them in the posts as above. The first denotes which category (monster, feat, spell, etc) the dysfunction falls under, the second names what is dysfunctional, the third gives a brief mention of what the dysfunction is, the fourth denotes which thread it originated from (first, second, or third), the fifth denotes which page it is mentioned on in the thread, and the sixth denotes which edition it is in (3.5, PF, or both).

[nedz]

Added a new section for Mysteries. I will think about merging them.

I resisted the temptation to use White text for them

I've added Spoilers because the main post is getting quite large now.

[nedz]

I love this thread, and I've been a lurker here for a long time (plus I try to point it out to other posters as often as possible). If some one can explain to me exactly what it is I need to do, I'd be glad to try and help out.

The more help the better. There's a Methodology spoiler in post #1, and you can see our working above. The Methodology is just to stop duplication of effort.

[nedz]

The "Dancer of Death" is a monster, but is actually named Deadly Dancer.

Thanks — and I've just fixed the name.

Mercurial Strike is indeed a feat.

Thanks — I already knew this and we had it from Dragon Mag 310. Seems they didn't fix it when they made the compendium.

[Deepbluediver]

The more help the better. There's a Methodology spoiler in post #1, and you can see our working above. The Methodology is just to stop duplication of effort.

Ok, then I will ATTEMPT to do pages 31-35, if not this afternoon then tomorrow.
I may request someone doublecheck my work once I post though.


Edit: Here's my attempts at page 31, if anyone wants to give it a quick looksie before I waste to much time screwing up the next several pages, it would be helpful.


Equipment|Spell Component Pouch|Contains an unlimited number of live spiders, for free-action Summoned Spider Swarms|3|31|3.5/PF
Skill|Profession (executioner)|Unclear on if a failed attempt provokes AoO, and from whom
Combat|Cover|By virtue of occupying a square that an attack must pass through to reach them, every creature always provides it's own cover.|3|31|3.5/PF
Feat|Throw Anything|Allows you to throw: Unarmed Strikes, Shield and Armor Spikes, and the unthrowable Butterfly Net|3|31|3.5


There are a lot of back-and-forth-arguments in there, so I'm not sure how much of this should be taken as accurate or serious, but these seem to be the agreed upon dysfunctions.

[nedz]

Yeah it can be tricky — debatable stuff is fine IMHO: people an always look up the debate.

We try for concision, but I can edit stuff down.

Is page 35 full yet ?

[Deepbluediver]

We try for concision, but I can edit stuff down.

Yeah, I was fighting between being concise and conveying what exactly the actual dysfunction was.

Is page 35 full yet ?

No, needs another 10 posts or so.
I still plan on attempting the next 4 pages (32-35) just need to find a little time.

[nedz]

Cool, but there's no point in doing page 35 until it's complete.

[Deepbluediver]

Here's the full list for pages 31-35, including those originally listed above; I attempted to shorten the descriptions a bit.

I also tried to include everything that was actually problematic, while excluding a few things that where just quirky. If this requires to much clean up to be useful, please let me know and I'll stop trying to be helpful and go back to just lurking.


Race|Diopsid|Text regarding wielding larger weapons is contradictory|3|33|3.5
Race|Vampires|Restricted to a move or "attack action", which does not exist in 3.5|3|34|3.5
Base Class|Duskblade|Are proficient in all armors, including every exotic armor|3|33|3.5
Base Class|Cleric|Domain spells are untyped|3|35|3.5
PrC|Tenebrous Apostate|Ending the Umbral Body ability early wastes the remainder of the rounds/day|3|32|3.5
Skill|Profession (executioner)|Unclear on a failed attempt if it provokes AoO, and from whom
Feat|Throw Anything|Allows you to throw throwable items (Unarmed Strikes, Shield and Armor Spikes, etc)|3|31|3.5
Feat|Unseen Arrow|Deliver arrows with a melee touch attack|3|32|3.5
Feat|Furious Inhalation|Players allowed to choose that it ends however it benefits them the most|3|35|3.5
Equipment|Spell Component Pouch|Contains an unlimited number of live spiders|3|31|3.5/PF
Equipment|Shadowsilk Armor|text is unclear about ACP, whether -1 or 0|3|32|3.5
Combat|Cover|Every creature always provides it's own cover.|3|31|3.5/PF
Combat|Sniping|Harder than melee attacking while hiding|3|35|3.5
Spell|Glibness|Has no verbal component for casting by a Bard|3|33|3.5
Spell|Blizzard|AOE exceeds range of the spell|3|35|3.5




There was also some discussion starting here regarding Fire/Cold immunity granting Cold/Fire vulnerability by RAW, despite many creatures not listing it in stack blocks. I couldn't quite parse out if this was a dysfunction.

[TuggyNE]

There was also some discussion starting here regarding Fire/Cold immunity granting Cold/Fire vulnerability by RAW, despite many creatures not listing it in stack blocks. I couldn't quite parse out if this was a dysfunction.

Personally, I include anything I'm not sure of one way or another, but with an asterisk after the description, which points to the footnote in the list post. (Usually this is because I don't have access to the books in question.)

[The Viscount]

The Heat Immunity/Cold Vulnerability dysfunction was fortunately cleared up by Rules Compendium, so no need to list it.

[nedz]

I'm going to grab pages 36-40

Weapon|Scythe|Designed for mowing grass so why the x4 Crit multiplier ?|3|36|3.5
PrC|Shadow Sun ninja|Darkness in Light ability is a standard action, therefore useless|3|36|3.5
Power|Crystal Body|Cannot use this power for 4 levels after getting it|3|36|3.5
Monster|Knell Beetle (MMIII)|Vermin with skill points|3|36|3.5
Monster|Quorcraft Warforged|Mindless constructs with class levels|3|36|3.5
Monster|Electrum Horror|Ranged attack has no stated range|3|36|3.5
PrC|Master of many forms|Gains Ooze split ability|3|37|3.5
Monster|Giant Banded Lizards (Sandstorm)*|Can use their improved grab on a creature of any size|3|38|3.5
Spell|Gemjump|You don't have to touch the creatures you take with you|3|38|3.5
Spell|Baleful Polymorph|Shapechanges can no longer change back|3|38|3.5
Feat|Precocious Apprentice|Allows access by School rather than Spell list|3|38|3.5
Feat|Precocious Apprentice|Multi-classing abuse|3|38|3.5
Template|Skeletal dragon and Zombie dragon||etain any exceptional special qualities|3|39|3.5
Combat|Rules of Torture (BoVD)|Attempting to escape from a Grapple provokes a free CdG|3|39|3.0
PrC|Contemplative|Mystic Union capstone grants damage resistance|3|39|3.5
Spell|Resist Energy|Requires a DF, even for a Wizard|3|39|3.5
Feat (Epic)|Fine Wild shape*|Few stats for Fine sized animals|3|40|3.5
Feat|Ancestral Relic|Can be applied to an existing magic item|3|40|3.5

I'm holding fire on this one for a little while
Karmic Strike Schrödinger's AoO (or is this more general)
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...postcount=1162

[NeoPhoenix0]

It looks like you haven't added the data from pages 31-35 into the opening posts yet.

[nedz]

Correct, it's quite a big job — it takes an hour or so. I prefer to do a batch in one go.

[nedz]

I've updated the index to page 40 of the current thread (3), but we have a couple of issues.

1) These appear to be contradictory. I've left the original for the moment, pending review.

Baleful Polymorph|Creatures with shapechanger subtype can revert back to natural form, but lose subtype if changed|2|32|3.5
Baleful Polymorph|Shapechanges can no longer change back|3|38|3.5

2) Missing page and thread number. It's thread 3, somewhere in pages 31-35

Skill|Profession (executioner)|Unclear on a failed attempt if it provokes AoO, and from whom

[TuggyNE]

I've updated the index to page 40 of the current thread (3), but we have a couple of issues.

1) These appear to be contradictory. I've left the original for the moment, pending review.

Baleful Polymorph|Creatures with shapechanger subtype can revert back to natural form, but lose subtype if changed|2|32|3.5
Baleful Polymorph|Shapechanges can no longer change back|3|38|3.5

It's the same issue; baleful polymorph states that [shapechanger] subtype creatures, while not immune, can revert to their normal form as a standard action. However, it also states that type and subtype are changed to that of the new form, and makes no exception for [shapechanger] to remain.

2) Missing page and thread number. It's thread 3, somewhere in pages 31-35

Skill|Profession (executioner)|Unclear on a failed attempt if it provokes AoO, and from whom

It's page 31.

[nedz]

It's the same issue; baleful polymorph states that [shapechanger] subtype creatures, while not immune, can revert to their normal form as a standard action. However, it also states that type and subtype are changed to that of the new form, and makes no exception for [shapechanger] to remain.

Ah, OK — I'll make a double reference.

It's page 31.

Well I did look at that, but the description seemed different ?
I'll update the reference.

[Deepbluediver]

Well I did look at that, but the description seemed different ?
I'll update the reference.

Thanks. I think I accidentally clipped that piece off when I was shuffling them around to be in the appropriate order.

Going through the main thread and picking everything out was harder than I though it would be. That's why I haven't volunteered for more yet.

[nedz]

Thanks. I think I accidentally clipped that piece off when I was shuffling them around to be in the appropriate order.

Going through the main thread and picking everything out was harder than I though it would be. That's why I haven't volunteered for more yet.

It is quite fun to read the thread again though.

[Keko]

I now is not it's not dysfunctional but "just" truly odd...the warblade in the starting package example has a shortbow but he's not proficient in it

Also a commoner can not identify any common animal as a cow or the scary house-cat as he needs raks knowledge (nature)

[nedz]

Line 1 post #3 "The Collection"
All example characters are known to be wrong

There are several similar Knowledge dysfunctions in the Skills section of the Collection. I've a feeling we already have this one, but maybe not.

Also: please post these in the appropriate thread as listed in http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...39&postcount=1.
I would have linked to the relevant thread directly, but thread III is almost full and so we might be on thread IV by the time you get there.

This thread is for the handbook/collection/index only.
Thanks.

[Snowbluff]

I can't find "Unseen Arrow" as directed. Can someone find that for me, or give me the source of the feat? It intrigues me.

EDIT: NVM, found it.

[NeoPhoenix0]

The feat is in Tome of Magic pg 138. The prestige class it is used for starts on pg 129.

Edit: edit ninja'd by less than a minute.

[Snowbluff]

The feat is in Tome of Magic pg 138. The prestige class it is used for starts on pg 129.

Edit: edit ninja'd by less than a minute.

Addendum: The PrC and feat are bad.

[NeoPhoenix0]

The opening post should be updated to direct people to the new thread as soon as possible.