Simple Diplomacy Fix [3.5, Skill, PEACH]

[Amechra]

Alright, here we go:

Diplomacy is no longer a skill; instead, it is simply a Charisma check. Anything that would now be accessible at an earlier level than it used to be now has a level requirement (so something that had a requirement of Diplomacy 8 ranks would now a have a requirement of Level 5.)

Any effect (feat, class feature, synergy bonus, racial bonus, etc, etc) that specifically gives a bonus to Diplomacy checks now applies to that Charisma check.

An example: Franz, a 2nd level Bard with 5 ranks in Knowledge (Nobility), Bluff, and Sense Motive, and a Charisma of 18, would have a +10 bonus on his Diplomacy checks.

There will be a few rewritten feats to deal with the alteration in the effectiveness of the "diplomatic option."

Diplomacy checks to alter someone's opinion of you takes 1 minute of chatting, bargaining, boasting, and wheedling, and require that you make a DC 20 check to improve their opinion of you by 1 stage; if you want to try your luck increasing someone's opinion of you by more stages, the DC is increased by 15 each time; to give an example, increasing someone from being Unfriendly to Friendly would take a DC 35 check.

You may only roll to increase someone's attitude towards you once per day; each time after the first, you must additionally give them a reason to increase their opinions of you (whether it is presenting them with gifts, helping them with a problem they have, or just by generally being a charming rogue.)

Now, sometimes, rather than increasing someone's attitude towards you gradually, you need to get them to agree with something right now. For example, you'd like to convince them to lend you a horse, or to treat your poor friend over there who took an arrow to the gut while you were off fighting some Orcs for their protection, oh deary me.

In this case, we're looking at a Diplomacy check opposed by a Wisdom check, modified by the same Relationship/Risk-Reward modifiers as used in Rich Burlew's Diplomacy fix.

Now, following are a few ACFs and rewritten feats to work with this alteration:

ACFs

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Charismatic Leader
Classes: Marshal
Replaces: Skill Focus (Diplomacy)
Benefit: Due to being such a charismatic gent/lady, you get a +3 bonus to any Diplomacy check you make.
Note: I'm just doing this because, hey, Diplomacy isn't a skill anymore.

Exemplary Ability
Classes: Exemplar
Replaces: Persuasive Performance
Benefit: Whenever you make a Diplomacy check, you may replace any speaking that you normally need to do to perform the Diplomacy check with a non-threatening demonstration of a skill that you have Skill Mastery for. If you do this, you may add the ability score that that skill is based off of to your Diplomacy check in the place of your Charisma modifier (so a demonstration of your hard-working nature (a Profession check) would let you base your Diplomacy check off of Wisdom, and so on and so forth.)

Feats

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I'll add some later.

[Ashtagon]

This has glossed over a feature so fundamental that it is often ignored, even by WotC authors.

All skill checks in 3.x are, in reality, ability checks. The skill bonus is just a modifier on the ability check.

Given that truth, the proposed houserule is no different from saying that you cannot spend skill points on Diplomacy skill ranks.

[Amechra]

Psst...

Don't let people know! They'll get all uppity, and we don't want that, ey?

[Yitzi]

This has glossed over a feature so fundamental that it is often ignored, even by WotC authors.

All skill checks in 3.x are, in reality, ability checks. The skill bonus is just a modifier on the ability check.

Given that truth, the proposed houserule is no different from saying that you cannot spend skill points on Diplomacy skill ranks.

It's times like this that I really wish giantitp had a "like" feature.

[Amechra]

Here's the thing:

If I just posted: "You can't take ranks in Diplomacy anymore", people would look at my post as if someone had suggested, I don't know "why don't we just, you know, eat puppies? I mean, they're made of meat."

Plus, there'd be some corner case, and bla-bla-bla...

(My own personal fix for all skills is abolishing ranks and just letting them be ability checks, so we'd have less wonkiness; DCs would need fixing, but that's easy.

Also, Combat Maneuvers are Strength Checks, with the option to swap them off to other ability scores (Tripping as an Intelligence check? Sounds like it would work...))

[sengmeng]

How about Diplomacy checks are opposed by a will save? Then the difficulty scales as you try to persuade higher level, higher wisdom, especially willful creatures/characters. Since that was one sentence, I don't think it gets much simpler. (I mean, yeah, a few more sentences should be needed to clarify other conditional modifiers and what exactly you accomplish by beating their will save, but it doesn't get much more intuitive and simple).

[Grod_The_Giant]

Skill vs save isn't good, since skills scale a lot faster than saves. But why not diplomacy opposed by sense motive, instead of a static DC? Using Burlew's risk/reward modifiers.

Although why not simply use Burlew's fix, which is probably the best I've seen?

[sengmeng]

Well, the things that make you have a high will save are the very same things that should make you resistant to mundane influences as well. Could be base will save + 1/2 HD + Wis mod + anything else that boosts their will save vs mind-affecting effects. Having it be opposed by sense motive makes every NPC burn a precious skill point every level or HD (if they even can) to not be a total pushover or sucker. Should an ancient dragon be virtually immune to a mid-level spellcaster's dominate monster, suggestion, and charm monster, but unable to resist a bard saying "C'mon, it'll be fun!"? Mechanically, a diplomacy check to try to get someone to do something is a mundane suggestion effect. Why would sense motive oppose that? When I say, "hey, I could really use some of your gold and it would be awful nice of you to give me some," there's not really a whole lot of deception going on. If you make a sense motive check against that, the DM should say "yeah, you think he probably wants cash from you."

[Yitzi]

Could be base will save + 1/2 HD + Wis mod + anything else that boosts their will save vs mind-affecting effects.

Makes sense.

Having it be opposed by sense motive makes every NPC burn a precious skill point every level or HD (if they even can) to not be a total pushover or sucker.

No, some of them could hire counselors, as they already must to protect from Bluff.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Could be base will save + 1/2 HD + Wis mod + anything else that boosts their will save vs mind-affecting effects.

Yeah, that might work.

[sengmeng]

No, some of them could hire counselors, as they already must to protect from Bluff.

"Yes, I need an advisor to keep me from getting swindled. I'm a really terrible judge of character."

"I'll do it for half your kingdom, plus expenses. You won't find a better deal than that."

"Done."

[Yitzi]

"Yes, I need an advisor to keep me from getting swindled. I'm a really terrible judge of character."

"I'll do it for half your kingdom, plus expenses. You won't find a better deal than that."

"Done."

More likely he'll use someone who actually respects his position, or maybe someone who specializes in Sense Motive but doesn't have much Diplomacy.
Of course, no matter what, you will need to apply proper circumstance penalties.

[Deepbluediver]

Here is my favorite diplomacy fix.

It's a little more complex than yours, but basically it has 2 big limitations on it's power. First, you can't improve some ones attitude by more than one step. Basically, a diplomacy check is a few minutes of conversation, so that seems to make sense. You could spend several weeks getting to be there best buddy, but then that's no longer within the realm of the skill.

Secondly, it has a time limit on how long it lasts. So you can't use Diplomacy to make everything think that you're their BFF, and then go off and leave them to build you a castle for when you get back.

Overall, I think it keeps the core of what diplomacy feels like, without being overpowering.