Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 69
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Tracking students with RFID tags

    Seen on wired

    Seen on the next web

    Seen in Brazil

    So evidently this is an internatioal phenomenon. Has anyone here have this at their school, and if so, what is your experience with it? Is it helpful? Intrusive? What?

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."

    -Valery Legasov in Chernobyl

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Brother Oni's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cippa's River Meadow
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    It's no different from controlled access workplaces where you have to 'swipe in' to clock on.

    I also have no objection to prominently displaying ID - I've been on a number of facilities and sites where armed guards take an unhealthy interest in you if you're not clearly showing proper ID.

    With regard to the second link, in my opinion the girl is being somewhat selective in her condemnation of RFID chipped ID - I believe in the US, bank cards, driver licenses, passports and a whole host of other formal ID uses the technology.
    A good test case for how strongly she follows her beliefs - if she objects to being referred to as a number, is she willing to renounce her Social Security Number and hence forfeit any benefits that she is entitled to?

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    The Succubus's Avatar

    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    UK
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    I endorse the idea. The way they sneak around, preying on human flesh and drinking blood....

    ...wait, what was I thinking about again?

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Anarion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    It's no different from controlled access workplaces where you have to 'swipe in' to clock on.
    It's quite a bit different, actually. Controlled-access workplaces do that because they have trade secrets or other confidential information that they want to keep from the general public. Schools have no such thing, therefore the purpose of a controlled access school is not the same. When you're doing the ID and tracking as either highly paranoid security or simply a way to electronically track your students it becomes invasive because the compelling interest of corporate confidentiality isn't there to balance it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    I also have no objection to prominently displaying ID - I've been on a number of facilities and sites where armed guards take an unhealthy interest in you if you're not clearly showing proper ID.
    I personally would have a big objection for exactly this reason. Again, it's one thing to have a secure corporate or military site. It's quite another to suggest that all children in all schools should be tracked in the same manner or that armed guards could be taking an interest in anyone in a school who didn't prominently display ID. It strikes me as invasive and dystopian.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    With regard to the second link, in my opinion the girl is being somewhat selective in her condemnation of RFID chipped ID - I believe in the US, bank cards, driver licenses, passports and a whole host of other formal ID uses the technology.
    A good test case for how strongly she follows her beliefs - if she objects to being referred to as a number, is she willing to renounce her Social Security Number and hence forfeit any benefits that she is entitled to?
    She most definitely is being selective. Nobody at this point disagrees that the government can have numbers to track you for purposes of giving out benefits and administering programs. That people have a number does not mean they no longer have a justification for being angry when they're forced to wear a physical tracking chip every day associated with that number.
    School Fox by Atlur

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.”
    Oscar Wilde Writer & Poet (1891)

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Spiryt's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Poland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Well, if it's voluntary, I guess it's alright, either you want this school or you don't. If more of them should have ideas like that, it would get worse.

    Thread will get moded pretty quick probably, though, hard to avoid politics here.
    Avatar by Kwarkpudding
    The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
    Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.

    Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Below sea level
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Well, to be honest, I have been to facilities where a simple RFID tag would be welcome. It makes logging for workshop rooms that much easier and establises a way to get into your workspace without troubling the security. I for one do see the benefits, if the card doesn't hold too much information to be intrusive of privacy (but for educational purposes it would do fine)
    Warlock Poetry?
    Or ways to use me in game?
    Better grab a drink...

    Currently ruining Strahd's day - Avatar by the Outstanding Smuchsmuch

    First Ordained Jr. Tormlet by LoyalPaladin

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Would widespread implementation track students everywhere?

    That would be an obscene violation of privacy.


    Would it track students only at school?

    How is that helpful? In my experience, the students that wanted to be there were there. The ones that didn't just skipped class. And when the administrators dragged them into class, they made damn sure that everyone else knew they didn't want to be there.

    How does disrupting the other students help test scores?
    Last edited by Grinner; 2013-01-20 at 05:04 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Anarion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiryt View Post
    Well, if it's voluntary, I guess it's alright, either you want this school or you don't. If more of them should have ideas like that, it would get worse.
    It's an issue of precedent. If it works in this one school, it would probably start being picked up by others, which is why the girl is making such a big protest. Also, all schools are not created equal. If someone got into a good school that implemented one crazy policy and the choices were to fight the crazy policy or go to a much worse school, I could easily see fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Socratov View Post
    Well, to be honest, I have been to facilities where a simple RFID tag would be welcome. It makes logging for workshop rooms that much easier and establises a way to get into your workspace without troubling the security. I for one do see the benefits, if the card doesn't hold too much information to be intrusive of privacy (but for educational purposes it would do fine)
    The second article says that they were supposed to wear the tags at all times and that each tag had the student's social security number on a bar code. I agree, if you just had a convenient card for signing up for computer labs, that would be quite different from what's explained in the articles.
    School Fox by Atlur

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.”
    Oscar Wilde Writer & Poet (1891)

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    How is that helpful? In my experience, the students that wanted to be there were there. The ones that didn't just skipped class. And when the administrators dragged them into class, they made damn sure that everyone else knew they didn't want to be there.
    WRT the school with the student, according to wired, the primary benefit is for the school's budget.

    The school gets paid a certain amount of money for the attendance numbers. Attendance is normally taken in first class. The higher the attendance, the more state(or federal?) funding it receives.

    The problem is, according to the school, a significant part of the school population is not at their desks at the start of the first period. Legitimate or illegitimate, they are in stairwells, or late for class, or seeing counselors, or in the nurse's office, or smoking on the grounds, or what not.

    The school wants to be given credit, for the purpose of attendance numbers, not for the students at their desk , but for students anywhere on the school grounds.

    RFID tells them instantly how many students are on the grounds at any time, regardless of where they are. Count the dots, write that number down, turn it in, profit. Literally.

    It occurs to me that if a school has a serious attendance problem it has deeper issues that simply inventing a new ID won't solve. But then, I'm not in that school district.

    ETA: I don't like this for general use, but I'd like a more sophisticated version for a student with a medical condition. Something that locates him/her precisely and automatically presses a "panic button" if the student's vitals show that s/he's in big trouble. Tracking a person's body signals would definitely have privacy concerns so it would have to be voluntary, requested by the parents and assented to by the student.

    E AGAIN To Add: The original question I asked was whether anyone had direct experience with it. I thank the previous posters for their input, but I don't see that anyone so far has first-hand experience, which is what I was interested in.


    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    Last edited by pendell; 2013-01-20 at 05:22 PM.
    "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."

    -Valery Legasov in Chernobyl

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canuckistan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    From where I stand, it seems like a gross violation of my privacy. Sorry, but I feel that a school has no right to track where I am beyond whether I'm in class and outside restricted areas.

    The problem is, it can (and at some point, will) be used for unethical reasons violating my civil rights. For example, it wouldn't be very difficult to find out who I hang out with outside of class just by matching which RFID tags I spend the most time next to. Or maybe that I spend too much time in the bathroom, and ergo I must either be doing drugs or have a medical problem and should see a doctor. Or being punished for not wearing my ID badge for whatever reason.

    Sorry, but as pointed out, a school is not a secure military base.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maquise View Post
    Anytime someone tries to bring real-world physics into a RWBY discussion, Blake kills them in self defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pastoulio
    VERILY, TOP LANE SHALL BE GUARDED BY A VALIANT KNIGHT,
    YEA, MIDDLE LANE SHALL BE OCCUPIED BY A WIZARD,
    I SAY UNTO THEE, A TEAM SHALL HAVE ONE WOODSMAN TO PATROL THE FOREST,
    FINALLY, AN ARCHER OF PENULTIMATE SKILL SHALL GO TO THE BOTTOM LANE, ACCOMPANIED ONLY BY HIS SQUIRE

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    @pendell: The morning shuffle. That makes sense, but the solution seems a bit extreme.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Kjata's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    So what, if you decide to blow off class, you could give your friend your ID and be counted as "In Class?"

    Awesome.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Brother Oni's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cippa's River Meadow
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    It's quite another to suggest that all children in all schools should be tracked in the same manner or that armed guards could be taking an interest in anyone in a school who didn't prominently display ID. It strikes me as invasive and dystopian.
    Board rules prohibit me from replying fully, but in my opinion, recent events suggest that even a small attempt at security is better than none at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    That people have a number does not mean they no longer have a justification for being angry when they're forced to wear a physical tracking chip every day associated with that number.
    Except that if you refuse to carry anything with a RFID chip, life in the modern western world gets very inconvenient indeed. Even withdrawing cash from a bank cashier by writing yourself a cheque (since you can't use the ATM with your RFID chipped card) can be problematic as banks tend to have strict rules on what ID they can accept and these all tend to have RFID chips in.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Anarion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Board rules prohibit me from replying fully, but in my opinion, recent events suggest that even a small attempt at security is better than none at all.
    Yeah, I thought that would come up. It strikes me as too high a price for safety, but others may well disagree.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Oni View Post
    Except that if you refuse to carry anything with a RFID chip, life in the modern western world gets very inconvenient indeed. Even withdrawing cash from a bank cashier by writing yourself a cheque (since you can't use the ATM with your RFID chipped card) can be problematic as banks tend to have strict rules on what ID they can accept and these all tend to have RFID chips in.
    I'm not complaining about RFID in general. They're super useful. I would complain if my bank started tracking me via my credit card everywhere I went. People made the same complaint with iPhones when they came out and were storing user data that showed everywhere you had been over a several month period. And they got the phones changed so they don't store that data anymore.

    Yes, it's true that our modern devices can and are used to track us all the time, either openly or secretly, and I'm okay with that. But when it comes out that somebody is tracking people, rather than just consumer habits, it's generally viewed as a bad thing that invades privacy and I agree with that view. For a school to openly say that they're just tracking all their students is something that I find upsetting.
    Last edited by Anarion; 2013-01-20 at 11:49 PM.
    School Fox by Atlur

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.”
    Oscar Wilde Writer & Poet (1891)

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Thajocoth's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Austin TX
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    This depends on what data is gathered & the uniqueness of this data.

    At work, I hold up a card to get into the building, but cease to need it after that. The card is scanned and contains the same chip everyone else's card does, making my entry into the building no different if logged than someone else's (not to mention that if a group enters, only one person holds up a card). So I just keep it in my wallet & hold my wallet up to the reader. I haven't seen my actual card in months. It's irrelevant. This is not invasive.

    If, however, it's used as a means of control... Such as to enforce stupid things like curfews or whatever, and gps-locate students wherever they are, like in a cyber-thriller horror movie, then I'm completely against it.

    It all comes down to whether or not the recorded data violates the student's basic human right to privacy.
    Last edited by Thajocoth; 2013-01-21 at 01:51 AM.
    Avatar by me. It's Incendius Darkscale, a Good Dragonborn Dragon Sorcerer, Demonskin Adept, Prince of Hell, worshiper of the Platinum Dragon (Bahamut), specializing in Fire and Lightning, wielding a staff in each hand.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Brother Oni's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Cippa's River Meadow
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    Yeah, I thought that would come up. It strikes me as too high a price for safety, but others may well disagree.
    I would agree it's a very delicate balancing act. I personally would be more than willing to sacrifice some of my privacy for safety, but then again I went to a rather small school where skipping class or other truancy wasn't feasible.

    Now as a parent, would I be willing to sacrifice my children's privacy for safety, is a much harder question because while I'm ostensibly their legal guardian, it's not my privacy to sacrifice.
    I would have to have more information on the system being implemented, including what information is tracked, where the scanner locations are and what sort of range they have, before I could make a decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I would complain if my bank started tracking me via my credit card everywhere I went.
    Depending on the bank, they already do by monitoring what transactions you make on the card to prevent card fraud.
    For example I got a call from my bank, asking had I made any purchases from a company in New Jersey. What flagged it up was that the purchase was at a local store there (i.e. not over the internet) and the previous hour I had made a purchase at a supermarket in the UK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    But when it comes out that somebody is tracking people, rather than just consumer habits, it's generally viewed as a bad thing that invades privacy and I agree with that view. For a school to openly say that they're just tracking all their students is something that I find upsetting.
    I would agree with the former to a degree - it depends on who's doing the tracking. If the police or a government agency with a properly obtained court order decided to track me, there's not much I can do.
    I would object strongly to a marketing company tracking my movements via my purchases.

    As for the school, I would need more information on their system as mentioned before. If the extent of their tracking was 'who's on school premises and who's in class', it would be a lot harder to accuse them of 1984-ish Big Brother style tracking.
    Some reading up on their system indicates that their library borrowing system is based off their card, along with purchases from the cafeteria, so while that's more information the school has, I find neither information to be particularly troublesome (and would probably be useful for the school in determining what their student population likes to eat), provided the information isn't freely shared outside of the school.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Mar 2010

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    I have no problems with this type of system in schools. Keep it limited to the grounds and your fine in my opinion. You could limit it to simply detecting a student rather than a particular student. Then you could send the appropriate security or whatnot to the location if you feel the student need not be there.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    The Forest Moon of Ohio
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Something to consider is that most schools have security cameras, so they already have the ability to track a student while they are on school grounds. An RFID chip in the student ID's would allow them to more accurately ID the students they see on the cameras.

    Being able to track the students while they are on campus would allow the staff to know who is where in the event of an emergency (fire, tornado, earthquake). It would also serve to identify students that were involved in a fight/bullying incident. I think the "violation" of privacy (you are in a public place) is outweighed by the benefits of the system.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Oct 2009

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    The only way I would be okay(ish) (in no way happy) with this is if
    a) the tags wouldn´t need to be worn publicly
    b) the data collected is completely anonymous

    Everything else is a gross violation of privacy imo and frankly I´m kind of shocked that so many would be okay with this. It might be a cultural difference though, where I live we don´t have cameras on every corner or in our schools and where we do have those (in public places) we have very very strict rules how long the data can be stored, how and who can watch etc.

    However I see a reason for the rfid chips if a) and b) are strictly adhered to then it would make counting the students (and getting the funds needed) a lot easier so I would have no problem there.
    Last edited by Emmerask; 2013-01-21 at 04:39 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Anarion's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    San Francisco
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Quote Originally Posted by leafman View Post
    Something to consider is that most schools have security cameras, so they already have the ability to track a student while they are on school grounds. An RFID chip in the student ID's would allow them to more accurately ID the students they see on the cameras.

    Being able to track the students while they are on campus would allow the staff to know who is where in the event of an emergency (fire, tornado, earthquake). It would also serve to identify students that were involved in a fight/bullying incident. I think the "violation" of privacy (you are in a public place) is outweighed by the benefits of the system.
    I've actually never been in a school with security cameras (except for some university laboratories, which don't count). I'm quite surprised to hear you say that most schools have them. Admittedly, having an ID tag isn't much worse than having the cameras as long as they're not tracking the students outside of school, but I'm honestly a bit troubled by the cameras as well, if you're right.
    School Fox by Atlur

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Anarion's right on the money here.
    Quotes

    "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.”
    Oscar Wilde Writer & Poet (1891)

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Quote Originally Posted by Anarion View Post
    I've actually never been in a school with security cameras (except for some university laboratories, which don't count). I'm quite surprised to hear you say that most schools have them. Admittedly, having an ID tag isn't much worse than having the cameras as long as they're not tracking the students outside of school, but I'm honestly a bit troubled by the cameras as well, if you're right.
    Oh, yes. It's the latest thing in domestic surveillance. Of course, only the schools that can afford them actually have them. Interestingly, the schools are given funds based upon the students' attendance and academic performance, so gang-ridden urban schools, where a student is more likely to get stabbed, are the least secure.

    Edit: In any event, even if you wanted to confirm students' identity via RFID records, nothing prevents them from ditching the things.
    Last edited by Grinner; 2013-01-21 at 06:02 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ClericGirl

    Join Date
    Mar 2008

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    It's okay, the cameras probably don't work anyway.

    We have cameras at the school I work at. I know for a fact at least half of them are broken. It still creeps me out.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DruidGuy

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Oz county
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Outside of the US, I know several schools that require your school ID to be worn publicly at all times. Presumably this is to identify quickly people who shouldn't be waltzing around unescorted by administrative staff. I actually consider this a good idea.

    I am significantly less okay with anything that tracks students when they're not on school property. And there is the glaring flaw that has been repeatedly pointed out: nothing stops students from ditching IDs; or handing them off to someone else; or eventually some enterprising hoodlum will steal someone else's ID and use it as a cover to get into areas that they're not supposed to be in and--provided they have enough sense to hide their features and avoid wearing their signature look while doing so--either get away with no one to blame, or shift blame onto the person whose ID was on their person.

    If and when people start getting tagged with RFID in the way that we do for pets, then things will get bad. But that's really a topic for a different forum.

    Why, yes, I do own a tinfoil hat. Thanks for noticing.
    I used to live in a world of terrible beauty, and then the beauty left.
    Dioxazine purple.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Canuckistan
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    I personally value my privacy much, much higher than my safety. Because the way I see it: perception of safety means I'm surrendering control of my life over to the government. So the government would be able to protect me from hoodlums, but at the same time, it'd be a lot more difficult to protect myself from the government itself, should it ever turn corrupt, or simply decide to persecute people for inane misdemeanors that they now have a way of tracking via technology.

    For example, they could send someone a $50 fine any time a chip detects them jaywalking. Sure, it's illegal, but the spirit of the law is to protect citizens from getting run over by cars on busy streets, and to protect drivers in case some moron decides to jump under the wheels of a moving vehicle. There's absolutely no problem with crossing a completely deserted street at 3 AM, no matter how much traffic there is on it during rush hour.

    At least with hoodlums, you always have the option of defending yourself. With the government, such option doesn't exist, especially if they come at you with bureaucratic paperwork that can ruin your life.

    That's why I feel strongly about it even in this scenario: they're saying it's only used for a single purpose, but nothing is stopping them from repurposing the system once it's up and running. And from then on, expanding it and/or introducing significant punishments to students for not complying: "your RFID says you were in the caf. You weren't there. Where were you? By the way, you're suspended for a week and now it's going on your permanent record because we have no way of confirming you weren't doing drugs, and only bad students who do drugs don't wear their RFID tags, so we're just going to assume you are." Or, "you were in the basement near the men's bathroom. That's where stoners do drugs. So that's going to be a week's suspension for doing drugs."

    @ mod: please warn me if this crosses into politics. I don't think it does, as I'm not discussing any government policies/parties/whatever, merely stating my POV on the matter of RFID tags in schools, but I'd prefer to be sure.

    PS: cameras and RFID tags are different. Even though you're on camera, unless there's specifically a person monitoring your movements all the time, you're just one face out of two thousand, and it takes significant effort to reconstruct your movements, something that would most likely only be done in the even of an actual crime. With an RFID tag? Open up a log (20 seconds at most), map it onto the school's floor plan (software is likely to already be set up to do that), and voila, there you go.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maquise View Post
    Anytime someone tries to bring real-world physics into a RWBY discussion, Blake kills them in self defense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pastoulio
    VERILY, TOP LANE SHALL BE GUARDED BY A VALIANT KNIGHT,
    YEA, MIDDLE LANE SHALL BE OCCUPIED BY A WIZARD,
    I SAY UNTO THEE, A TEAM SHALL HAVE ONE WOODSMAN TO PATROL THE FOREST,
    FINALLY, AN ARCHER OF PENULTIMATE SKILL SHALL GO TO THE BOTTOM LANE, ACCOMPANIED ONLY BY HIS SQUIRE

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Troll in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Julio Anejo View Post
    I personally value my privacy much, much higher than my safety. Because the way I see it: perception of safety means I'm surrendering control of my life over to the government. So the government would be able to protect me from hoodlums, but at the same time, it'd be a lot more difficult to protect myself from the government itself, should it ever turn corrupt, or simply decide to persecute people for inane misdemeanors that they now have a way of tracking via technology.
    That's another good point.

    In most cases, the police aren't there to protect you. They're there to pick up the pieces for you.

    In the end, it's up to you to protect yourself.
    Last edited by Grinner; 2013-01-21 at 09:50 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    Quote Originally Posted by leafman View Post
    Something to consider is that most schools have security cameras, so they already have the ability to track a student while they are on school grounds. An RFID chip in the student ID's would allow them to more accurately ID the students they see on the cameras.
    I don't think it works that way. There's a difference between a camera in a public area and an individualized RFID tag. If you wanted to shadow a student, the best thing to do would be to assign a real live human to do it. I've never been in a monitoring center, but I'll wager it would be very inconvenient and difficult to track an individual person. Too many places where they step out of shot, too many cut corners, too many people in the hallways.

    An RFID , if it is tied to the social security number as the articles state happened in this case , could in theory tell you where a student was at all times. Assuming they didn't leave it in their locker with their jacket, or accidentally swap it with friends, or leave it in the gym when they changed into gym clothes , or ....

    Being able to track the students while they are on campus would allow the staff to know who is where in the event of an emergency (fire, tornado, earthquake). It would also serve to identify students that were involved in a fight/bullying incident. I think the "violation" of privacy (you are in a public place) is outweighed by the benefits of the system.
    I don't think it will be of great benefit that way to the general student body. Because it doesn't tell you exactly where the student is, it tells you where their RFID is. Which may not be in exactly the same place.

    I know that if it were an emergency I would expect the individual teachers to be responsible for the students in their class that period; I would not want to rely on RFID information in an emergency situation. I strongly doubt the individual teachers have that information and I doubt it could be passed from whoever has it to the evacuation people quickly enough to matter.

    No, this is a budget game. A budget game that will work precisely so long as it is enforced. No point putting in cameras if you're going to ignore them and let them go out of service, as at THACO's school.

    My gut hunch is that a very clever tech salesman has sold the school a bill of goods, a system which in the long run will cost more to maintain and upkeep than it will bring in in budget dollars. But we shall see.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."

    -Valery Legasov in Chernobyl

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    The Forest Moon of Ohio
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    I understand that the ID could get left behind somewhere, but that would be why you drill it into the students heads that they are to have their ID with them at all times when on school grounds.

    In an emergency situation I would much rather count on a computer to do head counts than a human, but to counter ID's being left behind you would confirm the computer's count with a teacher's. For ease of use, make the system accessible through the internet and a secure login so it can be accessed with a smartphone. A quick check would verify that little Billy was out sick today and not still in the building.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tail of the Bellcurve
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    So what I'm really taking away from this is that it's a good time to start selling wallets covered with lots of little coils of copper wire. It looks good and it scrambles your ID's signature!

    Plus in a pinch you can use it to give a sensual back massage. Why wouldn't you want one?
    Blood-red were his spurs i' the golden noon; wine-red was his velvet coat,
    When they shot him down on the highway,
    Down like a dog on the highway,
    And he lay in his blood on the highway, with the bunch of lace at his throat.


    Alfred Noyes, The Highwayman, 1906.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Elder Tsofu's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    At work
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    We use RFID in our bus-cards and stuff like that, and there you have to really try to get the blasted things registered. And you'd need those receivers all over the school to get a reliable tracking of the chips position. One in each room and corridor like.

    Personally I'm not against wearing a visible ID, we adults do it all the times at work (at least in shops and healthcare) and it has never hurt me - why would it be harmful for kids? (except in new kinds of bullying)

    The RFID seem to go from "We know you passed the gates to the school" to "We know you're sitting on bench 3 in corridor 2C". The first I have no trouble with (elementary school is mandatory around here) but the second just seem too stupidly expensive to be implemented in any school of size. Although the world is large, so I suppose there will always be some principals with more money than wits.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Planetar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Raleigh NC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Tracking students with RFID tags

    In an emergency situation I would much rather count on a computer to do head counts than a human, but to counter ID's being left behind you would confirm the computer's count with a teacher's. For ease of use, make the system accessible through the internet and a secure login so it can be accessed with a smartphone. A quick check would verify that little Billy was out sick today and not still in the building.
    I can speak to this from direct personal experience. My job is automated minibars in hotels. When a guest takes something out of the minibar , a sensor automatically records the sale. In our minibars, the computer really DOES track everything.

    Does this mean we have total, complete confidence in the computer? Unfortunately the answer is "no". The computer has a limited ability to recognize when the user picked up a product , changed his mind and put it back. OR moved something from one shelf to another out of absent-mindedness. Or decided to use the minibar as a personal refrigerator, putting his items on our shelves.

    The mis-use cases are endless.

    Which is why we have hotel attendants whose job it is to visit every minibar with a mobile device and reconcile the records of what the attendants see with their eyes with what the computer records say. Well, that and the bars can't restock themselves ... yet :). At any rate, false sales (sales recorded when they shouldn't be) do occasionally occur and so do attendant sales (sales NOT recorded when they should be, so the attendant manually does so). I suspect the exact number is company proprietary and specific to the hotel, but it's enough that giving the attendant reconciliation features is a good idea.

    If the system used to track students is anything like that used to track products in minibars, I would NOT rely on the automated system in an emergency. Humans are much more unpredictable and movable than products which do nothing but sit on a shelf. I would expect an RFID surveillance system to give a general "rule of thumb" view of the school at any time, but I'd still insist and demand humans in an emergency to catch the oversights in the system.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.
    "Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later, that debt is paid."

    -Valery Legasov in Chernobyl

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •