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Thread: Scroll Gun?

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    EvilClericGuy

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    Default Scroll Gun?

    I was thinking about how there are the rules for antimatter rifles in the DMG (3.5), and i was thinking about how fantasy technologist might make a "Gun". The basic idea is a "cannon" that you put scrolls in, and then it casts the spells out. Like, you put a Scroll of Acid Arrow, and the cannon casts Acid Arrow. Would this be a wondrous item, or what. I am interested to see what you come up with.


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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Assuming it casts the scroll an infinite amount of times...hmm... let's see... how about no? It seems more like an artifact, if you ask me.

    On the other hand, if it allows one use of the scroll, probably a +1-level enhancement usable on crossbows and other ranged weapons with ammunition, where it would cast the spell while shooting the ammunition.

    Edit: Sorry if this sounds too harsh, but I have a horrible headache and too much homework.
    Last edited by Thunderfist12; 2013-10-23 at 04:24 PM.
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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    It's called a wand.

    Or a hireling Wizard, if you're insisting on using scrolls as ammo.
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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Yes, but a wand has charges, and what he's implying means unlimited uses or one-use-only.

    But yes, you could re-fluff the wand to look like said scroll-gun. Hell, maybe they require replacements of unique ammunition scrolls (reloaded when the user desires to switch spells), and finding one could be a major plot-point in a campaign...
    Last edited by Thunderfist12; 2013-10-23 at 04:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dming For Noobs View Post
    I was thinking about how there are the rules for antimatter rifles in the DMG (3.5), and i was thinking about how fantasy technologist might make a "Gun". The basic idea is a "cannon" that you put scrolls in, and then it casts the spells out. Like, you put a Scroll of Acid Arrow, and the cannon casts Acid Arrow. Would this be a wondrous item, or what. I am interested to see what you come up with.
    The idea of wand/dorje guns has been suggested before, but how about this:

    Scroll Gun

    The scroll gun takes the form of a single firearm*, but no details of it are retained save the range increment, the ammunition capacity and the size, as well as the relevant weapon proficiency. It allows the casting of a scroll containing a spell with a range other than personal, even if the caster cannot cast it, and there is no need for a Use Magic Device check.

    The scrolls must be loaded into the gun, which is a standard action for each scroll, although groups of scrolls may be prepared out of combat so they may all be loaded as a full-round action. The Rapid Reload feat may be applied to the scroll gun, in which case it is a move action to load one scroll or a standard action to load one group. Either way, the scroll gun only holds as many scrolls as it would ammunition.

    The scrolls are fired in reverse order to the order in which they are loaded, or a pre-prepared order if they are grouped.

    When a scroll is fired, the effect of the spell takes place. If the spell targets a creature or single object, you must make a ranged touch attack against it, even if you would not normally. Use the range of the spell (to a minimum of 10 feet) to determine the maximum range, but the range increments of the gun to determine any penalties from range. The gun requires the same proficiency as a normal gun of its type, and is always an improvised weapon. If you miss, the shot is wasted.

    If the spell has an area of effect, you must target a specific point, creature or object which is to be the centre of the spell, as though the gun were a thrown splash weapon. If the spell summons or calls a creature, you must aim the gun at the location you wish it to arrive in the same manner. In any case, it does not matter if the shot goes out of the spell's maximum range when it misses - the spell is resolved as though the range were long enough to compensate for this.

    If the spell has a line or cone of effect, you are assumed to be able to aim the gun in essentially the correct direction.

    If the spell has another effect, the DM should devise a sensible method of resolving the firing of the gun.

    Once the spell makes impact, it is resolved as normal using the caster level on Table: Scroll Spell Levels. The scroll is invariably destroyed in the process, unless it is an artifact which is specifically not destroyed in use.


    *PF firearm rules work well for this. I suppose you could use repeating crossbows and such to the same effect.

    No idea how much it would cost, but is this the kind of thing you were looking for?
    Last edited by Jormengand; 2013-10-23 at 04:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Scroll used as ammo: I'd say limit it to the scroll's range, only single target or area of effect spells (no multi-target effects), beyond that yeah +1 weapon enhancement seems reasonable, or something like 4000 if it is limited to Lv 3 or lower scrolls, 12,000 for Lv 6 or higher (it's comparable to a +10 or better on UMD), and 36,000 for Lv 9 or higher (weapon enhancement inherently scales, although with an item like this you'd run into the problem of just picking it up for 8000 GP as a secondary weapon). This is less than +1 for Lv 3 or lower, a little less than +1 on an already +2 weapon for Lv 6 or lower, and little less than +1 on a weapon with a market price already of +6 for Lv 9 or lower.

    1 Scroll Powers Infinitely: Cannot use scrolls with expensive material components, takes any XP cost from the user with each use. If the scroll is changed it must wait 1 day to "re-attune". Pricing is as a slotless at-will item of the appropriate spell & caster level and I'd still probably not allow it.
    1st level scroll: 3,600 GP
    2nd level scroll: 21,600 GP
    3rd level scroll: 54,000 GP
    4th level scroll: 90,000 GP
    5th level scroll: 162,000 GP
    6th level scroll+: Epic dude, epic.

    But yes a wand does this much better and more cost effectively. The ammo using one's advantage is no need for UMD checks and ability to go above low level spells. The advantage with the infinite use one would be that you could change it each day for a pittance and that you could get a new wand and I guess if you just really wanted to blanket an area in infinite solid fogs.
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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    The idea is a gun that uses scrolls as ammunition, like bullets

    You could "load" a knock, and then a scorching ray as a kind of Swiss army knife. The main question is how to create it, and make it so anyone (fighters) could use it

    But the solid fog spam becomes evil, esp with invisible spell
    Last edited by Dming For Noobs; 2013-10-23 at 04:44 PM.


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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    *cough* magic weapons don't require UMD *cough*

    Nobody heard that.

    Anyways, yeah, you could basically use any of these suggestions, but add different kinds of scroll guns: one-slot, two-slot, and three-slot. One-slot guns must be reloaded normally (full-round action), but two-slots have a rotating device on top which holds all scrolls in it, and the scroll used at each fire can be loaded as a move action. Once the loaded ammo is gone, it must be reloaded normally, but this reloads the loading capacity clip, rather than the actual gun.
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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dming For Noobs View Post
    The idea is a gun that uses scrolls as ammunition, like bullets

    You could "load" a knock, and then a scorching ray as a kind of Swiss army knife. The main question is how to create it, and make it so anyone (fighters) could use it

    But the solid fog spam becomes evil, esp with invisible spell
    That's pretty much what I've tried to do.

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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    saw that after i posted


    Quote Originally Posted by Octopusapult View Post
    Now all you need is a DM with a heart composed of matter so dark that light runs in fear of him, and you're set!

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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    I prefer the idea of a shoulder-fired, breech-loaded weapon. I call it the Scrollzooka.

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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Well, there is the Thayan Bombard, from Unapproachable East, which can fire spell bombs.
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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by SassyQuatch View Post
    I prefer the idea of a shoulder-fired, breech-loaded weapon. I call it the Scrollzooka.
    Keep the scroll gun's firing mechanism, only allow one scroll at a time and make a specific range increment for it.

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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    How about a version of the weapon that requires spells on scrolls that can be applied to the weapon or its ammo, such as, well Magic Weapon for example.

    I can picture a Crossbow with a slot through the handle that is the same width as a typical scroll. Scroll goes in one side and comes out the other, perhaps blank or shredded (scrolls are typically single use). The weapon "reads" the scroll and is either charged up at that time, or maybe it can "hold the charge" until needed. There could also be stacking of spells in the weapon, up to a certain limit, such as Magic Weapon and Flame Arrow. The duration, etc. would be based on the scroll used. And no UMD check, either, since it is, in effect, a weapon.

    This could be a way to outfit a small army/strike team/party with weapons that can be configured for multiple enemies as needed.

    The advantage is in the adaptability of the weapon; you are not stuck using one type all the time, such as Flame or Frost. Through the use of scrolls you can configure your weapon for your enemy. And your casters can mostly stay at home writing scrolls instead of risking life and limb in combat.
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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowLord79 View Post
    -snip-
    Scroll Canister

    This strange object looks like a hemispherical tin with clips on the flat end and a small "door." on the other. A creature can attach or detach the Canister to or from any crossbow or firearm she holds as a move action, or load a scroll into the door as a standard action. The door must be closed and barred shut with a small bar that comes attached to the Canister, so loading a scroll into it provokes attacks of opportunity. If you try to load a spell which cannot be targeted on a weapon, its ammunition, or its wielder in relation to firing the weapon (spells like Spark, Magic weapon and True Strike can be loaded, spells like Fireball or Cure Light Wounds cannot)

    When attached to a viable weapon, the Canister itself will cast the spell held within as an immediate action (regardless of the normal casting time) on the weapon, ammunition or wielder, in that order, whichever is first to be applicable (so if, for whatever reason, Spark were loaded into the canister, it would affect the weapon as it is first on the list. True strike would affect the wielder as the weapon and ammunition are not viable targets.) The scroll is used up, the door opens, and the burnt remains of the scroll fly out, though they are harmless. The spell lasts until its end.

    No Use Magic Device check is needed at any point in the proceedings, regardless of who can or cannot cast spells.

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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Scroll Canister

    -<snip>-

    Ahh HA! Troops! Fix Canisters!

    But seriously, that is a good extrapolation of the concept. Makes it even more adaptable.

    I can see having the same sort of device for other weapons as well. Although I suppose it would have to operate slightly differently for melee weapons, like being a device the weapon is inserted into to get the effect of the scroll.

    Sudden brainstorm: Scroll Scabbard!
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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    there was a warcraft d20 source book (not world of) that had rules for technology, and one of the things you could do with the tech is have it make a skill check, might be able to adapt something like that. it does require 2 new skills tho, well sort of, craft(tech device) and use technological device.

    best way with that is to setup a gun that when the trigger is pulled rolls a UMD check. could probably do somethign simmilar with a wondorus item custom built

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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowLord79 View Post
    Sudden brainstorm: Scroll Scabbard!
    Scroll Scabbard

    This item looks like a normal scabbard, but is capable of morphing to fit any melee weapon - even if it is not sword-like in nature. However, this is not its main feature; it also has a compartment allowing it to contain a scroll. There is a small door which must be fixed in place to load a scroll, as such doing so is a standard action which provokes an attack of opportunity. The scroll must contain a spell which either affects the weapon, affects the caster's ability to use the weapon, or affects a single target.

    When the weapon is drawn, the scroll is activated by the scabbard itself as an immediate action, regardless of the spell's casting time. If the spell affects the weapon or wielder, it comes into effect instantly. If it affects a single target, the spell takes effect when the wielder successfully strikes an opponent with an attack, and affects the opponent hit. If the wielder hits multiple opponents at the same time, randomly determine who the spell strikes. If no-one is struck in the same round the weapon was drawn or the round either, the magic fades. In any case, the burnt scroll is ejected harmlessly from the compartment.

    The Caster Level is that of the scroll. No Use Magic Device checks are required, regardless of anyone's spellcasting abilities.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Scroll Scabbard
    Perfect! I think I may try something like this in the next session here. Maybe plant a scroll-use device as a treasure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowLord79 View Post
    Perfect! I think I may try something like this in the next session here. Maybe plant a scroll-use device as a treasure.
    .
    Yeah, no idea what the prices are for these, but... would be fun to have a mess around with them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyQuatch View Post
    I prefer the idea of a shoulder-fired, breech-loaded weapon. I call it the Scrollzooka.
    This also has possibilities, although more as a "fire and forget" than as a combat spell with a duration.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    Yeah, no idea what the prices are for these, but... would be fun to have a mess around with them.
    Yea, I suppose to be accurate, each item should have:

    • Aura - other magic scabbards have Transmutation or Conjuration
    • CL - Variable
    • Weight - ??
    • Price - ??
    • Construction Requirements - other items that affect weapons have Craft Magic Arms and Armor or Craft Wondrous Item
    • Spells - ??
    • Cost - ??

    And we have:
    • Scrollzooka
    • Scroll Canister
    • Scroll Scabbard

    .
    Last edited by Lord of Shadows; 2013-10-24 at 05:32 PM.
    "Save your tears, my fetid friends, the dead have Wept enough!"
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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    One more for fun.

    Scroll Trap (CR varies)

    The scroll trap is an almost-square cuboid box, which has enough room for one scroll in. A scroll which affects a regular area may be placed in the trap as a standard action provoking an attack of opportunity, and the trap may be activated as a full-round action which also provokes an attack of opportunity.

    When you set up the trap, a small interface allows you to set certain creatures, or types of creature, who will not set off the trap - such as "Me, anyone True neutral, anything smaller than tiny, and all elves," for example. You may also set the range a creature must be within to set off the trap. The trap is never set off by the creatures you specify - the trap may be moved, dropped or even thrown by these creatures without setting it off, though if it travels more than 30 feet in one round the system malfunctions and it must be re-activated.

    When a creature of a type not specified passes by the scroll trap, it activates. The door flies open and the spell contained in the scroll is cast by the trap itself, with an area centred on its own location, as an immediate action using the caster and spell level of the scroll - which is also how the trap's CR is determined. The scroll is burnt in the process, but the trap is only affected if the spell would damage it - otherwise, it is reusable.

    No Use Magic Device checks are required to use the trap. The trap has a Spot DC of 10 if it is unhidden. No disable device check is required to deactivate the trap - it is a simple matter to open the trap and retrieve the (undamaged) scroll if you can get close enough.
    Last edited by Jormengand; 2013-10-24 at 05:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Scroll Gun?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jormengand View Post
    One more for fun.

    Scroll Trap (CR varies)
    That reminds me of a trap I read about years ago that was even nastier. It was a magic trap that shifted to the Ethereal or something until a target came close enough, then it materialized and detonated. Very few ways to detect it, at least easily. At least, at that time there were few. I suppose something has come along since to make it harmless.
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