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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default The anti-lich? [pf]

    Ok so i'm about to run a rise of the runelords game. One of my characters wanted to do a undead summoning necromancer. I told him that was prolly a poor choice due to being in a town most of the time and the CG cleric we are going to have. He was highly disappointed becuase his end-game was going to be geared toward becoming a lich.

    My answer was this:

    Start off as an asimar sorc (he wanted to be sorc from the start) and take the celestial template.

    Towards the end of the first chapter is of rotrl is an asimar that is trying to become a succubus (my pc doesn't know this) and I'm going to make it to where if they make it that far he can take her notes on her ritual and start the reverse process of what the npc wanted to do.

    I am going to add the half celestial template to him.

    Now the anti lich part i am curious about is at higher level what should I do? I was tossing around making him either an azata or an archon but i'm not sure what alignment he is going. What if he goes neutral? Has anyone tried to do something similar and if so how did it turn out/what did you use? Any help or advice would be really helpful and appreciated.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    A half-celestial celestial aasimar?

    Even if that is possible by the rules (though as a GM you can change that), what has that to do with being a lich and summoning undead?
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    Well...in PF an asimar is just a good aligned native outsider. I also said that since he can't become the lich and the title is "The anti-lich" this is a compromise to let him become something that is a little more powerful. He was going to do a dhampir undead bloodline sorc that becomes a lich. This was a way to make him happy and to make the cleric not want to cry.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deepbluediver's Avatar

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    I don't know if any of them where converted to PF, but in D&D there are a small group of positive-energy aligned undead (un-living?). Or maybe they are called the undying, I forget. If you are not opposed to using homebrew, maybe take the standard lich template and just refluff it with positive energy as needed. Let me see if I can find a link.


    Edit: Ok, they are apparently called the Deathless, and there where only ever 2 of them (in the BoED, I think) but like I said, if you want to homebrew something, there's your precedent.

    Edit2: reverse ninja'd :P
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-01-23 at 10:23 AM.
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    Titan in the Playground
     
    Yora's Avatar

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    They are called deathless. They are exactly like undead except running on positive energy.
    We are not standing on the shoulders of giants, but on very tall tower of other dwarves.

    Beneath the Leaves of Kaendor - Writing Sword & Sorcery
    Spriggan's Den Heroic Fantasy Roleplaying

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AttilaTheGeek's Avatar

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    This sounds just like me- I'm also an evil caster (CE Evocation Wizard) who just finished the first chapter of Rise of the Runelords and wants to become a lich.

    I also have a paladin in the party.

    Surprisingly, it makes for really great interparty dynamics. Like Belkar said- "Sure, I can get away with stuff under the nose of, say, a town guardsman. But a PALADIN? That's the Big Leagues. It's like the old song says: If I can kill it here, I can kill it anywhere." Being evil is a lot more rewarding when you have someone standing in your way.
    Last edited by AttilaTheGeek; 2013-01-24 at 09:05 PM.
    Homebrew: Temporalist Quotebox Avatar by Kris on a Stick
    Blue is for sarcasm Call me Attila

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    See the problem with that is the fact that they are going to be in town a lot. Evil is once thing but a re-animator is quite another. The cleric of the party is going to be one of the undead smiting ones. So...a re-animator who turns into a lich isn't party dynamic...it's suicide.

    If you have read the comics then you know that Roy gets in trouble when he dies for allowing belkar to do the things he did. Even traveling with him got him in trouble.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    A real necromancer makes there entire army ghosts/wraiths so they can hide exactly 5 feet under the surface of the necromancer in a massive area like a invisible carpet with readied actions to grab the feet of anything that tries to attack the necromancer to drain there levels/wisdom/etc. This way he can enter a town without fear of persecution with his ENTIRE army right under there noses. Gods have mercy on ANY stupid idiot who tries to pickpocket him, eh?

    Also, I do believe incorporeal creatures can hide in physical objects to avoid that undead-smiting cleric's channel energy, while still being able to attack/grab/etc enemies from the floor, walls, or even ceiling.
    Last edited by Jane_Smith; 2013-01-26 at 07:50 AM.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    Ok good idea...what about early levels when all you get is skeles and zombies?

    What about the whole undead lich thing?

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Jane_Smith's Avatar

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    1: Perform a suicidal search for immortality, and die in the process, bribe dm with pizza to become one of those deathless undying ghosts from book of exalted deeds. Doesn't say it has to be good aligned. Your goal? Immortality/lichdom/whatever. Your now a ghost necromancer who does not need undead and are unaffected by positive energy a cleric channels.

    2: Use spells like mage armor, shield (especially to block magic missiles being incorporeal), blur/concealment, ghoul touch, and spam your ghostly drain touchs at poor fools with non-magic weapons who can not harm you or even hit you at all and drain there wisdom/strength/etc and deal cold damage. Possibly taking levels in dread necromancer will up your melee touch attack power and slowly turn you into a lich WHILE BEING A GHOST.

    3: Become a untouchable, invisible, incorporeal deathless lich, by this time, you have "survived" long enough to raise an army of spectral undead to go under your command and even take Undead Leadership with your insane charisma modifier to gain sentient undead as allies not directly under your control. Oh, obviously, con is a dump stat for this character, feel free to make it a 3...


    Only 1 problem with this build. The prc you take to become the deathless ghost from the book of exalted deeds requires you to take it from 1 to 10 without break, and at 10, you fade from the world as your time is up. If this does not suit you, look up "The Ghost Ring", which is a magical item that makes the wearer a ghost, 100% garenteed, with there sanity/etc intact upon death. This way costs money, and youl be vulnerable to channel energy/etc, but still works out.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jane_Smith View Post
    1: Perform a suicidal search for immortality, and die in the process, bribe dm with pizza to become one of those deathless undying ghosts from book of exalted deeds. Doesn't say it has to be good aligned. Your goal? Immortality/lichdom/whatever. Your now a ghost necromancer who does not need undead and are unaffected by positive energy a cleric channels.

    2: Use spells like mage armor, shield (especially to block magic missiles being incorporeal), blur/concealment, ghoul touch, and spam your ghostly drain touchs at poor fools with non-magic weapons who can not harm you or even hit you at all and drain there wisdom/strength/etc and deal cold damage. Possibly taking levels in dread necromancer will up your melee touch attack power and slowly turn you into a lich WHILE BEING A GHOST.

    3: Become a untouchable, invisible, incorporeal deathless lich, by this time, you have "survived" long enough to raise an army of spectral undead to go under your command and even take Undead Leadership with your insane charisma modifier to gain sentient undead as allies not directly under your control. Oh, obviously, con is a dump stat for this character, feel free to make it a 3...


    Only 1 problem with this build. The prc you take to become the deathless ghost from the book of exalted deeds requires you to take it from 1 to 10 without break, and at 10, you fade from the world as your time is up. If this does not suit you, look up "The Ghost Ring", which is a magical item that makes the wearer a ghost, 100% garenteed, with there sanity/etc intact upon death. This way costs money, and youl be vulnerable to channel energy/etc, but still works out.
    You are actually confounding two things there. The Risen Martyr is corporeal and has to be good-aligned. You must have died while accomplishing good things too, and if you do any mistake, you're instantly killed. That's really not an option. The Sacred Watcher (the closest thing to a deathless ghost) also has to be good-aligned, and it is bound to another person it must protect. Its technically possible for the Sacred Watcher to become something else than good after its death, but it must still fulfil its mission. It has a CR of +2.
    Last edited by Network; 2013-01-28 at 11:22 PM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Sherishade's Avatar

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    Default Re: The anti-lich? [pf]

    I had a similiar problem with a GM and he allowed me to use this homebrew concept, it might not be 100% up his RP alley but you can tweak certain aspects if you like. I love this particular deity and the idea of being a necromancer without having to be evil but alot of people balk at the idea.

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=264437

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