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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default [PF] Replacing Armor Bonus with Dodge Bonus?

    I'm working on a Pathfinder campaign setting set in the bronze age, in a time before armor.
    So I came up with the idea of making a new archetype for each class (except for paladins) which removes all armor proficiencies and in place grants a dodge bonus through level progression. I drew inspiration from the gunslinger's Nimble ability.
    The maximum of this dodge bonus is equal to the highest armor bonus the various classes can "legally" possess (excluding enhancement bonuses).

    I could really use some input on how to balance this dodge bonus, if anyone would care to give it.

    Here are the archetypes:

    Unarmored Barbarian (Barbarian Archetype)
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An unarmored barbarian is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with shields (except tower shields), but have no armor proficiency. This replaces the normal weapon and armor proficiency of barbarians.
    Nimbleness (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmored barbarian gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC while wearing no armor. Anything that causes the unarmored barbarian to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the unarmored barbarian to lose this dodge bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 2nd level and then for every five levels beyond 2nd level (to a maximum of +6 at 20th level). This replaces armor proficiency with light and medium armor.

    Unarmored Barbarian
    Level Special
    1st Nimble +2
    2nd Nimble +3
    3rd
    4th
    5th
    6th
    7th Nimble +4
    8th
    9th
    10th
    11th
    12th Nimble +5
    13th
    14th
    15th
    16th
    17th Nimble +6
    18th
    19th
    20th

    Unarmored Bard (Bard Archetype)
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An unarmored bard is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the longsword, rapier, sap, short sword, shortbow, and whip. Bards are also proficient with shields (except tower shields), but have no armor proficiency. This replaces the normal weapon and armor proficiency of bards.
    Lesser Nimbleness (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmored bard gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC while wearing no armor. Anything that causes the unarmored bard to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the unarmored bard to lose this dodge bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and then at 16th level (for a total of a +4 dodge bonus). This replaces armor proficiency with light armor.

    Unarmored Bard
    Level Special
    1st Nimble +2
    2nd
    3rd
    4th
    5th
    6th
    7th
    8th Nimble +3
    9th
    10th
    11th
    12th
    13th
    14th
    15th
    16th Nimble +4
    17th
    18th
    19th
    20th

    Unarmored Cleric (Cleric Archetype)
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An unarmored cleric is proficient with all simple weapons and with shields (except tower shields). Clerics are also proficient with the favored weapon of their deity. Unarmored clerics have no armor proficiency. This replaces the normal weapon and armor proficiency of clerics.
    Nimbleness (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmored cleric gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC while wearing no armor. Anything that causes the unarmored cleric to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the unarmored cleric to lose this dodge bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 2nd level and then for every five levels beyond 2nd level (to a maximum of +6 at 20th level). This replaces armor proficiency with light and medium armor.

    Unarmored Cleric
    Level Special
    1st Nimble +2
    2nd Nimble +3
    3rd
    4th
    5th
    6th
    7th Nimble +4
    8th
    9th
    10th
    11th
    12th Nimble +5
    13th
    14th
    15th
    16th
    17th Nimble +6
    18th
    19th
    20th

    Unarmored Druid (Druid Archetype)
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An unarmored druid is proficient with the following weapons: club, dagger, dart, quarterstaff, scimitar, scythe, sickle, shortspear, sling, and spear. They are also proficient with all natural attacks (claw, bite, and so forth) of any form they assume with wild shape.
    Druids are proficient with shields (except tower shields) but are prohibited from carrying shields made out of metal. Druids have no armor proficiency. This replaces the normal weapon and armor proficiency of druids.
    Druid Nimbleness (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmored druid gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC while wearing no armor. Anything that causes the unarmored druid to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the unarmored druid to lose this dodge bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 2nd level and then at 7th level (for a total of a +4 dodge bonus). This replaces armor proficiency with light armor.

    Unarmored Druid
    Level Special
    1st Nimble +2
    2nd Nimble +3
    3rd
    4th
    5th
    6th
    7th Nimble +4
    8th
    9th
    10th
    11th
    12th
    13th
    14th
    15th
    16th
    17th
    18th
    19th
    20th

    Unarmored Fighter (Fighter Archetype)
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An unarmored fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with shields (including tower shields), but have no armor proficiency. This replaces the normal weapon and armor proficiency of fighters.
    Greater Nimbleness (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmored fighter gains a +4 dodge bonus to AC while wearing no armor. Anything that causes the unarmored fighter to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the unarmored fighter to lose this dodge bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 2nd level and then for every four levels beyond 2nd level (to a maximum of +9 at 20th level). This replaces armor proficiency with light, medium, and heavy armor.

    Unarmored Fighter
    Level Special
    1st Nimble +4
    2nd Nimble +5
    3rd
    4th
    5th
    6th Nimble +6
    7th
    8th
    9th
    10th Nimble +7
    11th
    12th
    13th
    14th Nimble +8
    15th
    16th
    17th
    18th Nimble +9
    19th
    20th

    Unarmored Ranger (Ranger Archetype)
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An unarmored ranger is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with shields (except tower shields), but they have no armor proficiency. This replaces the normal weapon and armor proficiency of rangers.
    Nimbleness (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmored ranger gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC while wearing no armor. Anything that causes the unarmored ranger to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the unarmored ranger to lose this dodge bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 2nd level and then for every five levels beyond 2nd level (to a maximum of +6 at 20th level). This replaces armor proficiency with light and medium armor.

    Unarmored Ranger
    Level Special
    1st Nimble +2
    2nd Nimble +3
    3rd
    4th
    5th
    6th
    7th Nimble +4
    8th
    9th
    10th
    11th
    12th Nimble +5
    13th
    14th
    15th
    16th
    17th Nimble +6
    18th
    19th
    20th

    Unarmored Rogue (Rogue Archetype)
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: An unarmored rogue is proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They have no armor or shield proficiency. This replaces the normal weapon and armor proficiency of rogues.
    Lesser Nimbleness (Ex): Starting at 1st level, an unarmored rogue gains a +2 dodge bonus to AC while wearing no armor. Anything that causes the unarmored rogue to lose her Dexterity bonus to AC also causes the unarmored rogue to lose this dodge bonus. This bonus increases by +1 at 8th level and then at 16th level (for a total of a +4 dodge bonus). This replaces armor proficiency with light armor.

    Unarmored Rogue
    Level Special
    1st Nimble +2
    2nd
    3rd
    4th
    5th
    6th
    7th
    8th Nimble +3
    9th
    10th
    11th
    12th
    13th
    14th
    15th
    16th Nimble +4
    17th
    18th
    19th
    20th
    Last edited by Sriseru; 2013-01-31 at 04:22 AM.

    "The desire to dream is primordial."
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Bristol, UK

    Default Re: Replacing Armor Bonus with Dodge Bonus?

    It's not a bad idea, although Unearthed Arcana foresaw this problem and came up with its own solution.

    Also, I'm not sure you really want to name your class features in a way that suggests that the fighter is more nimble than the rogue.
    Last edited by lesser_minion; 2013-01-31 at 03:37 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Replacing Armor Bonus with Dodge Bonus?

    I forgot to mention that I was using Pathfinder... Sorry about that.
    Do you think Unearthed Arcana's Defense Bonus variant rule would be applicable to Pathfinder, or would it need some tweaking first?

    "The desire to dream is primordial."
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    bobthe6th's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Under the midnight sun
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    Default Re: [PF] Replacing Armor Bonus with Dodge Bonus?

    The UA rules are what D20 modern uses, so I think they are generally applicable.

    Also... your armor bonuses are really low. Use the defense bonus system.
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

    Join Date
    Dec 2011

    Default Re: [PF] Replacing Armor Bonus with Dodge Bonus?

    Yeah, I've been looking over UA's Defense Bonus rules over the past few hours, and I think I'll adopt them for my setting.
    Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, you really helped me out. :D

    "The desire to dream is primordial."
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  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: [PF] Replacing Armor Bonus with Dodge Bonus?

    The effects of armor's max dex bonus to AC are something to consider. If that's uncapped it could muck things up. Grab weapon finesse on a fighter and bam no attack roll can even come close to hitting you including touch attacks.
    Last edited by ericgrau; 2013-02-01 at 03:18 AM.
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