Map for campaign setting - please criticise

[Weltall_BR]

In the spoiler below is the sketch of the map I have been drawing for my new campaign setting (coastline is black; mountains, red; and hills, yellow). Although I really liked it at first, I have been really unsure lately, and would like to hear some comments.

I was considering connecting it to another landmass (probably via a isthmus) in the Northwest, but it seems to me this could add too much complexity. Let me explain. I don't plan developing this second landmass right now; it would be the foreign, alien land about which none knows much but legends. But with land, ships could easily navigate along the coast and therefore its probable the inhabitants of my continent would have followed that path long ago (technologial level of setting is equivalent to 8th or 9th century, plus low magic). This would demand that I detailed, at least to a certain level, what is to be found there - a work I'm not interested in doing right now. On the other side, I'm a bit unsure of having a Australia-like continent, isolated from everything. It seems to limit my future possibilities.

I'm aiming at a kind of realistic setting here: if I can't find any reasonable explanation for why my folks would not have sailed that way, I will have to accept they did.

I would like to see what you guys think about these doubts that have been making me unsure. Any critics to the map itself would also be welcome.

Spoiler

Show

Edit note: I mentioned "strait" when I meant "isthmus". That is corrected now.

[Morgarion]

That's a nice looking shape. I think you've got a good start to a map. I can imagine having some fun filling in the rest of the terrain and placing the cities/states and working out the demographics.

I guess I'm a little confused as to whether this landmass or the hypothetical second one is supposed to be the isolated 'Australia-like' continent (I wonder if it's the case that Australians don't feel like they're isolated from everything, but that the rest of us are from them...). Either way, I think a more realistic setting would ask the question of why people would sail away. I'm assuming that this map is your primary campaign setting and that there will be things going on; cities to live in, farms to work, beer/brandy to drink and wives to find. If you've got all that, why would you want to sail away? That seems like an awfully big risk to take when your destination is some uncharted island that no one knows anything about but myths.

I hope that helps.

PS Just because I'm a words guy, I can't help but point out that a strait is a channel of water that connects two bodies of water, so it wouldn't connect your landmasses, but it would imply that they are quite proximal to one another.

[Yora]

The map looks good so far. The only thing I can say is that the mountains on the northern coast would probably quite high, like the Andes and Rocky Mountains, while those in the center would probably be considerably lower. Huge inland mountains are rare and only the Himalayas come to mind, but those are the result of two continental plates moving into each other.
The two mountain ranges on the North coast would most likely be the result of the main portion of the continent drifting north (over an oceaning plate), so they would be moving away from the mountains in the center. Based on that, the central mountains wouldn't be too big. They can still be there, but would be considerably less steep.

Regarding other landmasses and exploration, it depends entirely on where people live and what kind of culture and technology exists. I think a good solution would be to connect them with a chain of islands like Indonesia, or as they are found in the northern Pacific between America, Russia, and Japan. That way travel by boat would be relatively uncomplicated, but still require some well planned expeditions to make initial contact with the other continent.
Also, if there isn't really anything worth trading between the continents, there wouldn't be a lot of interaction.

[Thunderfist12]

So. You need advice, am I right?

I don't think a small amount of water like a strait would be the answer for building a separation from the alien land. A large ocean with doldrums that prevent sea travel and even the occasional whirlpool from conflicting currents would make a nice barrier: who wants to sail past that to a land they know nothing about, and may not even exist?

Someone will probably find an answer to that question.

[Weltall_BR]

I don't think a small amount of water like a strait would be the answer for building a separation from the alien land.

As Morgarion pointed out, I actually meant an isthmus, not a strait. The idea was not separating, but connecting the landmasses (exactly what I am unsure about). Sorry for the confusion.

[Yora]

Well, the barrier wouldn't have to be too elaborate and dangerous. Until 1500 there was no regular travel to and from America, even though the trip from Iceland to Greenland or from Siberia to Alaska isn't particularly difficult.
Those being at the very edges of the inhabited world probably had something to do with that.

But then, Indonesians wouldn't have had much problems in getting to Australia, but from what I now they never really did that in any significant numbers, while Thailand and Vietnam had beem booming centers of advanced civilzation for many centuries.

[Amblehook]

A good technique (one that I employ in my setting) to have a distant continent that people only hear of through myths and legends is to design trade winds and ocean currents that flow from your mysterious continent to your main one, but not the other way around. Travel westward is difficult and slow, so not usually worth attempting. But if you have a well established culture on the far-off land, it is quite plausible to have them visit your main continent (probably for trading purposes and definitely for perpetrating myths and legends) then continue off towards the east to trade with other far-off lands, eventually to circumnavigate the globe. If they have superior sailing tech that they're unwilling to share, it would fit that the societies on the main land have not gotten to the lands beyond.

[Weltall_BR]

Good that you guys liked the shape, makes me feel more confident.

I guess I'm a little confused as to whether this landmass or the hypothetical second one is supposed to be the isolated 'Australia-like' continent (I wonder if it's the case that Australians don't feel like they're isolated from everything, but that the rest of us are from them...). Either way, I think a more realistic setting would ask the question of why people would sail away. I'm assuming that this map is your primary campaign setting and that there will be things going on; cities to live in, farms to work, beer/brandy to drink and wives to find. If you've got all that, why would you want to sail away? That seems like an awfully big risk to take when your destination is some uncharted island that no one knows anything about but myths.

This landmass (that is, that pictured in the map) is the one I feared to be Australia-like... Regarding the reasons, well, it is usually trade... Although I must admit that if we are considering an isthmus in the NW of the continent there would not be much to trade, as probably anything that could be found there could also be found on my main landmass as well. Especially if the locals are somewhat aggressive towards foreigners. That's a good a point, thanks for raising it.

The only thing I can say is that the mountains on the northern coast would probably quite high, like the Andes and Rocky Mountains, while those in the center would probably be considerably lower. Huge inland mountains are rare and only the Himalayas come to mind, but those are the result of two continental plates moving into each other.
The two mountain ranges on the North coast would most likely be the result of the main portion of the continent drifting north (over an oceanic plate), so they would be moving away from the mountains in the center.

In my view, the NW mountains would be pretty high, while those in the NE and inland would be lower. Do you think that is reasonable?

Regarding other landmasses and exploration, it depends entirely on where people live and what kind of culture and technology exists. I think a good solution would be to connect them with a chain of islands like Indonesia, or as they are found in the northern Pacific between America, Russia, and Japan. That way travel by boat would be relatively uncomplicated, but still require some well planned expeditions to make initial contact with the other continent.
Also, if there isn't really anything worth trading between the continents, there wouldn't be a lot of interaction.

I really liked the archipelago idea =) I had thought about putting an archipelago somewhere, but not of using it to link my continent with another landmass. It seems an obvious idea, but for me at least, it wasn't. I can almost picture this in game terms: an exotic people living across the wild seas in mysterious islands... Somewhat, it makes me think of Conan.

A good technique (one that I employ in my setting) to have a distant continent that people only hear of through myths and legends is to design trade winds and ocean currents that flow from your mysterious continent to your main one, but not the other way around. Travel westward is difficult and slow, so not usually worth attempting.

That certainly settles things for distant continents, but my main concern here is coastal navigation, ie, what conditions would prevent the people of certain area from navigating along the coast and reaching other areas.

[Alexkubel]

that is very intresting, but could you update the map with biomes (tigra, tundra, grassland, dudicious, coniferous, Desert) and rivers.

also whirlpools don't appear at sea, if you think you see one, you're either at the dead sea or you've got lost or it's not actually a whirlpool. distance is a factor, how far can you go before needing to set foot on land o resupply, if it's only 2-3 days then a desert could prevent travel, large area of reefs, shallows, sand bars all can stop ships going to land, areas of dead, though on the map there is only one likely one, giant seaweed is another, the ultimate question is can they magic up food, have refrigeration, and is sea travel along the coast safer or faster then going by land?

[Weltall_BR]

that is very intresting, but could you update the map with biomes (tigra, tundra, grassland, dudicious, coniferous, Desert) and rivers.

also whirlpools don't appear at sea, if you think you see one, you're either at the dead sea or you've got lost or it's not actually a whirlpool. distance is a factor, how far can you go before needing to set foot on land o resupply, if it's only 2-3 days then a desert could prevent travel, large area of reefs, shallows, sand bars all can stop ships going to land, areas of dead, though on the map there is only one likely one, giant seaweed is another, the ultimate question is can they magic up food, have refrigeration, and is sea travel along the coast safer or faster then going by land?

Well, next step would be the rivers. I take quite long to draw stuff, both because I'm not very good at it and because I am a bit of a perfectionist. Only after the rivers shall I add the vegetation, so it is gonna be quite a while before I have all these...

Your considerations about natural barriers (deserts, reefs, shallows, sand bars, etc.) are very interesting. I believe that an archipelago (thanks, Yora) with certain natural barriers can make up for a place to which sailing is possible but very difficult. And has a very good flavor: the mysterious archipelago in the south, which a few seaman claim to know how to reach or to ever have reached. Nice indeed.

[Thunderfist12]

Cool. So, what's the actual setting going to be like?

[Weltall_BR]

Cool. So, what's the actual setting going to be like?

Well, it is a pretty standard, low magic fantasy setting. My goal is not to be totally original, but to build a world that is rewarding to play in. My main influences are the epics of ancient and Iron Age Europe: Iliad, Odyssey, Aeneid, Táin Bó Cúailnge, Beowulf and the Eddas. Instead of looking at modern fantasy for inspiration, I decided to look at the works that inspired modern fantasy itself. The exceptions are Tolkien (but not as much as would be expected at first), Neil Gaiman and the Conan comics.

So a few words...

Cosmology and religion: The only other relevant plane is Faerie. There is divine magic, but gods are myths: a lot of religions, no way to know who is right or wrong. No one has any idea about other planes (apart from Faerie) either.

System: I really like what I have seen of D&D Next so far. It is probably going to be D&D Next with a cap, like E6, but I’m considering capping progression at level 8 (thus making it E8). This will one important effect I’m aiming at: low magic. Spells of higher level will be available as incantations (a great reason for cults of all genera).

Races: Most races will be in, except for Halflings and Orcs (let us leave Tolkien out of it). Gnomes and Elves will be quite few in number, with Elves being very reclusive, some of them to the point of being aggressive towards foreigners (think of the elves in The Hobbit, not those in The Lord of the Rings. Welcome back, Tolkien). Gnomes will be kind of a scientific lot in a world of magic, and because of this their technology will be a bit more advance (the setting is around 8th century in what regards technology, and Gnomes will around the 13th century). Humans are the backbone, as usual, and dwarves are not solely mountain dwellers but very close to standard. Other races and monsters are to be found only in the outskirts, less travelled roads and wilderness. From times to times their presence may be felt in the great urban centres, but these places are mostly safe from such presences.

Geography: You have seen the geography All I am able to add at this point is that the continent is located in roughly between 40º and 70º North and mostly covered in forests.

History:: This has been only sketched. Thousands of years ago the dwarves were the only intelligent race in the continent. No aggressive monsters were to be found. They spread across the land, using their natural talent for engineering to build impressive cities. But then came an ice age. Dwarves had to abandon their cities (thus my continent has some ruins in it) and crowd in a small strip in the South, the only area that remained inhabitable. Wars for food and shelter became common. In the middle of such ice age there came man, sailing from who knows where, and fighting for survival became the rule. After centuries of cold and darkness, the ice retreated and men and dwarf spread over the land. But soon after, due to certain events in faerie, gates from one plane to another opened and many creatures came from there to my continent: giants, dragons, goblins, kobolds, trolls, merfolk, sea-serpents, krakens, griffons, harpies, etc. I'm still to come up with the events that lead to this, but I'm not even sure I should – maybe leaving this open may be useful in the future Together with these "monsters", came also the elves. Much later, the gnomes exiled themselves from faerie willingly. And from this point to the present there is a great blank

Cultures: There will be roughly four different cultures. A culture may be divided in many kingdoms. To explain them as shortly as this post requires I would have to make references to real world cultures, something I'm not willing to do. If I say "northern men are like the Vikings" everyone will just think of axe-wielding, ale-drinking barbarians. I am looking for inspiration in real world cultures, but mostly in their legends and literature (just look at my references above). It is not important for me that Vikings wore horned helmets, this is not what I want to reflect in my setting. What is important for me is that they were a society in which honour played a great role: nobles and commoners are tied by bonds of loyalty, oaths are taken seriously, vengeance is a moral duty, and so forth. And some other stuff, like their approach to religion as largely a personal matter. If I say "well, my guys are like the Vikings", this is not what would come to most people's minds, but the axe-wielding barbarians mentioned above. Since I cannot do better than that right now, I will just refrain from revealing the references.

In a very rough way, this is pretty much all I have for now. I have spent most of the last months browsing through literature, music, comics, films and arts looking for references. I have a lot of elements I want to include and I more or less know where to put them, but I still have a long way to go...

[Morgarion]

This sounds awesome. What did you need our help for?

I'd be really interested to hear more about your human cultures and how you're using the real life inspirations in your world-building.

[Weltall_BR]

This sounds awesome. What did you need our help for?

I'd be really interested to hear more about your human cultures and how you're using the real life inspirations in your world-building.

Well, there is still a lot to be done, and sharing certain thoughts with you helps me organize them and receive some feedback

I agree with sharing certain details of my cultures, as long as you undertake not to reply with “yet another Viking copycat”

First, it is important to notice that one culture doesn’t mean one political unity. Historically, the celtic and germanic people were divided in hundreds of tribes and small kingdoms, with occasionally one becoming locally dominant. The greeks were divided into city-states. Rome was united, but at a great cost and was constantly in danger of falling apart. So my idea of culture is that of a people who share a language (although maybe some speak a dialect of it), a religion (but maybe a slightly different pantheon) and certain cultural elements (like artistic motives and legends). This people may be divided in several kingdoms. Please note that these are fictional depictions of ancient cultures. I did not even build them from history books, but from literature and art. I’m not aiming to be 100% precise.

Enough already. Here are my cultures.

Germanic tribes: the main references are Beowulf and the Eddas. The germanic tribes were held together by bonds of loyalty (which eventually developed into serfdom): local landowners swore allegiance to a local leader, joining forces against external threads. This loyalty becomes the central tenet of morality. Peace is kept by a range of social obligations, such as those of hospitality, exchange of gifts and wergild, the practice of offering money for the compensation of harms (especially murder). Oaths are taken very seriously; an unanswered call for an ally is the highest act of treason. If the proper rituals are not followed, violence can escalate quickly and last for ages as allies answer calls for help and the duty of vendetta is passed from generation to generation. Feasts are an important social stage, in which men show their greatness through speech and noble acts. Religion is a personal matter. People keep small shrines and altars for worshipping their favorite gods, but there are no temples or organized religion. A few holy man roam the streets. Hospitality is a sacred duty, but even more sacred when the guest is one of these holy man. This culture will encompass all the dwarven population and roughly a third of the human population.

Celts: the main reference is the Táin Bó Cúailgne. This was probably the most difficult reference, as the Táin is much more fantastical than the other references. In stark contrast with the germanic tribes, for the celts loyalty doesn’t mean much: they were not shy about resorting to measures that could be regarded as honorless. This creates a society that is continuously involved in rivalries and disputes. Giving in to someone’s desire is not shameful, as long as the person is able to face the consequences. The same goes for boasting one achievements. The life of celts is a life of passion. Even in war -- their warriors are ferocious and prone to be taken by rage. Two traits are remarkably celtic: foster parenting (a way of keeping bonds between families) and the personal taboos called geis, which are usually simple (such as not eating a particular kind of food) but if broken, can prove to be the hero's misfortune. Religion is matter for specialists: when the common folk need something from the gods, they go to the local druid. Worshipping is carried out as commanded by druids. Non-druids are simply not educated in religion, and therefore gods are very mysterious to them. Celts will comprise about a third of the human population (and a small part of the Elven population; see below).

Greek: main references are the Iliad and the Odyssey. Here I’m kind of more at home, since I have studied the Ancient Greeks a little bit more than the next person. Greek society is one of free man united for the common good. This sense of community creates a strong attachment to land. Skill in speech is as important as skill in battle. Virtues and vices are recognized as two sides of the same coin, but every free man is expected to fight against his vices and achieve glory through the realizations of its virtues. Living is seeking glory. Life is lived in public; whatever is lived in privacy is unimportant for the community. Greeks will comprise almost the whole of the Elven population. The elves identified with celtic culture are “converted greeks”: they are standard, greek elves who learned druidic magic and took certain habits of the locals. The inhabitants of Faerie acknowledge no gods, and therefore the greeks shall have no religion. They believe in magic only.

Roman: the main reference is the Aeneid. Virgil follows very close on the steps of Homer, and therefore it is a bit hard to distinguish Romans from Greeks. There are two traits that set the romans apart from the greeks. First is the fact the Romans do have a religion. Unlike other cultures, religion is a public matter: making the proper rituals may be the difference between winning or losing an important battle. Those who refuse to perform the proper rituals are not working for the sake of Rome and are regarded as traitors. Priests are public authorities, who lead the rituals and celebrations. And second is pietas, the distinct roman moral virtue. A man shows himself to be pious when he exhibits a selfless sense of duty toward one's filial, religious, or societal obligations. Piety includes the care of the dead, the devotion to the gods and the performance of one's duties as a Roman citizen. But many times as much as those who are truly pious are those who make speeches about piety but are truly devoted to their own (or their family’s) gain. Romans were a diverse people in an alliance of convenience. Devoting oneself to such alliance was truly worth of praise, but the Romans were proud and frequently stepped out of such path. Romans will comprise the last third of human population of my continent.

Romani: you asked me what I needed your help for. Well, while I wrote this one idea came to my mind. Initially I had thought of the gnomes as the tinkering type, the curious little people who like to build stuff. I have now thought this better. As late comers to my continent, gnomes would either have to fight for a land or pick the worst spots. What if instead of attaching themselves to a certain place they lived like nomads, travelling around the continent living of their tricks? I don’t know much about the Romani culture and I don’t want to offend anyone, but this seems to be an interesting idea. In fact, this has kind of been done before - the Vistani of Raveloft. As the Gnomes have left Faerie by their own free will, they would be allowed to return and they would be naturally talented in finding the paths to and from there, allowing them to travel in the most peculiar ways. EDIT: a good reference for these gnomes would be the film "The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus", by Terry Gilliam.

P.S.: sorry for the long post =)

[Sabeki]

Seems great, like the cultures.