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20130204, 09:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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20130204, 09:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!

20130204, 10:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Jun 2011
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
True, but that only works if you have it set to autosubscribe to all threads you post in or start, which isn't the default. (And it's not the way I have it anymore either; I post in way too many threads for my inbox to survive that. ) It's also quite useless for searching on someone else's name.
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

20130204, 11:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Sep 2011
Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Sadly I didn't have it subscribed.

20130204, 11:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Ok, this might be an annoying request, but:
I just did some (very) basic analysis of the characters offered for a PbP I've applied to (just maximum, minimum, and average values for a variety of scores.) Others among the group would like a more through analysis of the data. Might you be able to provide a proper statistical analysis?
The table of links to the relevant character sheets
The first table I posted (concerning ability modifiers)
The second table I posted (concerning AC's, Save, and Attack bonuses)

20130205, 12:19 AM (ISO 8601)
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 Jan 2012
Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Not necessarily the gold, but yes. That's my long term plan on a weapon, I'm quite happy with everything except the chaotic outsider bane, but it seems to be the best option left.
My DM has a MIC but I don't so my ability to just skim the book looking for goodies is limited, though I can happily use any material from it if I'm merely pointed at it.
So two 25%'s back to back would be .25x.25 for .0625 or 6.2%? I guess I expected another step.
Given that that is multiplication, it should work for any base % and any number of iterations yes?A man once asked me the difference between Ignorance and Apathy. I told him, "I don't know, and I don't care"

20130205, 12:21 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
I apologize for this offtopic non sequitur, but I had to share that I first read the title as "Attila's Death Mask".

20130205, 01:00 AM (ISO 8601)
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 Jun 2011
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity

20130205, 01:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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 Sep 2011
Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
I tried adding a signature, but it doesn't seem to apply retroactively.

20130205, 01:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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 Jan 2010
Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Amen to Mathematica products.
Now I pose some simple, straightforward questions:
1) I wish to accumulate a large amount of damage on a creature let us say G64, using darts. I may nonmagical, standard PHB darts of any size, up to Colossal.
Assume the target's AC is 0 and has Regeneration 40 and DR 1/.
Assume I have no bonus to damage (except strength bonus, obviously), a tohit of +20, and I have 2 attacks per round.
Special: I can take 2 more attacks than the previous round if I take a cumulative 2 penalty on all of my attacks in the current round (so 2 attacks = 0 penalty, 4 attacks = 2 penalty, 6 attacks = 4 penalty, etc). I may never decrease my number of attacks in this manner, but may choose to instead reset the tempo to 2 attacks per round.
Note: Keep in mind that I must be able to lift the darts in order to throw them.
What is the shortest amount of time in which the given creature accumulates an average of G64 damage? What is the smallest number of darts that I would have to use in that time? What is the smallest strength score I would require?
2) How much wood could a woodchuck chuck in a given round, given that a woodchuck could chuck wood?

20130205, 02:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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 Sep 2011
Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
No matter what you do, it's going to take far more than the age of the universe. Grahm's Number is infinite for all practical purposes. Even an exponential growth rate won't help you.
Anyway, the best bet is to increase your attacks as fast as possible and eat the 95% miss rate. This will at least get you quadratic growth. Dart size, strength bonus, regeneration, and damage reduction are all irrelevant, since they only affect the time up to a constant multiple.

20130205, 06:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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 Jan 2012

20130205, 07:30 AM (ISO 8601)
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 Nov 2005
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
A character who has Second Chance and a second attack due to +6 BAB should reroll a missed first attack, rather than try a second attack, as the second attack is at relative 5. However, having a third attack due to +11 or better BAB may allow more hits instead. Assuming no other feats, under what conditions should a character try a second and third attack, rather than reroll the first?
Matthew Greet
My purpose in life is to play games.

20130205, 07:52 AM (ISO 8601)
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 Feb 2010
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 Finland
Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Assuming you don't have to confirm your critical hits, how much damage do you have to do with each attack for Keen to be better than Flaming (etc.)?
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler

20130205, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Jan 2007
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Imagine an ability that allows you to reroll your attack roll, but force you to keep the second result: how much of a bonus is that equivalent to? (wow, I suck at this syntax thing...) What about if you could roll twice and keep the best roll?
Also, is there a formula to calculate how to optimize your Power Attack in 3.5? I mean, I know there's a way to calculate it, but I mean a way that would be simple enough to do the math at the table?Spoiler: ICitP Participations
Blackguard Avatar from Cealocanth

20130205, 07:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Nov 2012
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Second Chance with three iterative attacks is useful if rolling a 6 (on the d20) on your first attack would hit. It makes sense because two attacks at a lower bonus are better only if you're likely to hit with both of them. I did the math out on paper, and I'm kind of rushed at the moment, so I'll post it later.
If you don't have to confirm crits, Keen becomes much better and competitive. I'll see if I can get you an answer tonight.
For the second question, I remember writing a formula about a year ago; I'll see if I can dig it up. I'll work on the first question tonight or tomorrow morning.

20130206, 04:48 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Nov 2012
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
I think I'll just put all the maths in a spoiler from now on so that if you're looking for an answer, you can just find it quickly.
SpoilerIt (of course) depends on the crit range of the weapon. But we start with an inequality:
1/20 * (Crit multipliers added) * (Weapon damage) > 3.5
By "crit multipliers", I mean the number of possible extra weapon damage terms added. For example, an 1820/x2 crit range adds three extra weapon damage components (on an 18, 19, or 20), as does a 2020/x4 range (on 20, times three). In other words, the crit multipliers of the range is equal to (21 minus the minimum needed to crit) times (the crit multiplier (x2, x3, or x4) 1), because a crit of x1 isn't a crit at all.
From there, we just divide 3.5 by the number of crit multipliers and multiply by 20 to solve for weapon damage.
{table=head]Crit rangeCrit multipliersDamage
2020/x2170
1920/x2235
1820/x2323.3
2020/x3235
1920/x3417.5
2020/x4323.3[/table]
Keen is better than Flaming (or another +1d6 energy enhancement) if your weapon damage is greater than the number in the table and you don't have to confirm crits.

20130206, 05:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Nov 2012
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
I can't find any flaws in the logic or the math, and the formula seems right, but I think I remember coming up with something different before. Math spoiler is here. Warning: calculus involved.
SpoilerI began with three variables: how much you power attack for, P, how much weapon damage you do on a hit, W, and the natural d20 roll you'd need to hit the target, A. (If A is small, then you're likely to hit, because you need to roll above that small number).
For a twohanded weapon, I defined a function f of W, A, and P and rearranged for P.
f (W, A, P) = (1/20)*(21AP)*(W+2P)
= (1/20)* [21WAWWP+42P2AP2P^2]
= (1/20)* [(2)P^2 + (42W2A)P + (21WAW)]
Now, since we're trying to solve the value of P that maximizes f, we take the partial derivative of f with respect to P and set it to 0. It's a maximum because the function doesn't have a minimum, and we don't have to worry about saddle points because we're holding W and A constant.
∂f/∂p = (1/20)* [ 4P + 42  W  2A] = 0
And from here, we solve for P in terms of W and A. The 1/20 multiplies out because the other side is 0.
42W2A = 4P
P = (42W2A)/4
For a 2H weapon, power attack = (42  weapon damage  two times d20 roll needed to hit) divided by 4. For example, if you need to roll at least an 8 on your d20 to hit, and you hit for 20 damage, then (42208)/4 = 3.5, which rounds down to 3. It makes intuitive sense to an optimizer, because if you hit for a million, you don't want to risk a 1/20 chance of missing for only 2 extra damage, and it would actually be better to reduce damage for an increased chance to hit, so the formula outputs a negative number. But if you know you're going to hit anyway, but not for much, then power attack adds a lot.
For a 1H weapon, the math is similar.Spoiler
f (W, A, P) = (1/20)*(21AP)*(W+P)
= (1/20)* [21WAWPW+21PAPP^2]
= (1/20)* [(1)P^2 + (21WA)P + (21WAW)]
∂f/∂p = (1/20)*[2P+21WA]=0
2P=21WA
P=(21WA)2
For a 1H weapon, power attack = (21  weapon damage  d20 roll needed to hit) divided by 2.
Edit: I found my error in the 2H calculations. the formula is now "  two times d20 roll needed to hit", as opposed to "  d20 roll needed to hit".Last edited by AttilaTheGeek; 20130206 at 05:44 PM.

20130206, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Jan 2007
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Spoiler: ICitP Participations
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20130206, 05:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Feb 2010
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler

20130206, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Nov 2012
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Originally Posted by Player's Handbook, p.140
It's exactly the same. If the formula is negative, then using reverse PA is better; if it's positive, then it's more optimal to power attack. However, I do think you have a typo there according to power attack's description, each 1 to hit only gives +2 to damage with a twohanded weapon.

20130206, 05:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Feb 2010
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 Finland
Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
It's generally interpreted to refer to effect that add extra dice of damage, not to fixed damage.
Not a typo. I was hoping for something relevant to Legend's Precise Strike (since it's not like such an ability even exists in 3.5 or PF).Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler

20130206, 05:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Jan 2013

20130206, 05:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!

20130206, 05:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Spoiler: ICitP Participations
Blackguard Avatar from Cealocanth

20130206, 05:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Ahh. Well, then.
*sound of crunching numbers*
*crunch crunch crunch*
Edit to add:
That's what I initially expected for 1H weapons, but actually the numbers are slightly different. I edited that formula in.
I think I'll now need five or six different variables: P for how much you power attack for, W for weapon damage, A for d20 roll needed to hit (the A comes from AC), I for number of iterative attacks, and C for damage added by crits. Instead of editing into that old post, I'll just make a new one. And possibly K for how much power attack is added in K=1 for 1H weapons, K=2 for 2H weapons, and K=3 for Greenish's Precise Strike.Last edited by AttilaTheGeek; 20130206 at 05:57 PM.

20130206, 06:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Jan 2013
Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
And then you can make a revenant blade frenzied berserker and check that for the lulz.

20130206, 06:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!

20130206, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
Last edited by Greenish; 20130206 at 06:05 PM.
Quotes:Praise for avatar may be directed to Derjuin.Spoiler

20130206, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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 Jan 2013
Re: Attila's math desk, now open for business!
A revenant blade can power attack with a double scimitar (a double weapon used for TWF) as if it was a THW. A frenzied berserker gains +4 damage for every 1 penalty to attack when power attacking.
Revenant blade is from Player's guide to Eberron pg 142. Frenzied Berserker is from Complete Warrior pg. 34