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  1. - Top - End - #151
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    My power supply should be arriving tomorrow (fingers crossed), so I'll probably blitz-judge them. I'm expecting to miss things, so contestants, feel free to let me know if I've missed something.



    I'm keeping most of Amph's (excellent) guidelines. One thing that I'm tempted to do, however, is a "Special" bonus round. Hint - it may very well have something in common with Reaping Mauler...

    As for the ingredient... while waiting for my power supply, I've been book-diving. The only question is how obscure to get. I've got a couple options on the table right now, though. One is decidedly cruel, and another is absolutely delicious as SI.
    Hmmm, a 5 level prestige class Secret Ingredient Bonus Round... interesting.

  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    it could be called the dessert round if none of the other threads are using that name yet.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Not sure where you got 5 levels from Kuul's comments, but if so, luvverly. I do so enjoy 5 level PrC's. Gives more opportunity to expand without feeling like you're either stuck with 1 or two classes or being pinged for significant dipping. You can now have a dip or two, with one base chassis, and then the full Prestige Class.

  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Not sure where you got 5 levels from Kuul's comments, but if so, luvverly. I do so enjoy 5 level PrC's. Gives more opportunity to expand without feeling like you're either stuck with 1 or two classes or being pinged for significant dipping. You can now have a dip or two, with one base chassis, and then the full Prestige Class.
    reaping mauler is a 5 lvl class.

    since he said he'd adhere to amph's guidelines, I wouldn't expect any non-10 SIs, but 5s as bonuses in between contests would be cool.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
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  5. - Top - End - #155
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Sorry for the wait. I've been busy with other projects for the last few days. I should have my scores/critiques up by Friday.

  6. - Top - End - #156
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Not sure where you got 5 levels from Kuul's comments, but if so, luvverly. I do so enjoy 5 level PrC's. Gives more opportunity to expand without feeling like you're either stuck with 1 or two classes or being pinged for significant dipping. You can now have a dip or two, with one base chassis, and then the full Prestige Class.
    The only thing Reaping Mauler could have in common with the SI to warrant a "special round" would be its 5 level nature. Ergo, I surmised that the special round would use a 5 level prestige class.

    I could be wrong, but thats what it seemed like he was hinting at to me. A one time special round that uses a 5 lvl SI instead of a 10.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    As for the ingredient... while waiting for my power supply, I've been book-diving. The only question is how obscure to get. I've got a couple options on the table right now, though. One is decidedly cruel, and another is absolutely delicious as SI.
    From what I've seen in my days here, the less obscure ingredients have had a larger number of entries. If you pull out something from Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, don't expect a full house.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    From what I've seen in my days here, the less obscure ingredients have had a larger number of entries. If you pull out something from Shattered Gates of Slaughtergarde, don't expect a full house.
    I rather like Twisted Lord, though.
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  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I rather like Twisted Lord, though.
    me too. I'd ask for it as an SI, but I don't figure we'd see much competition.
    I've got a new fantasy TTRPG about running your own fencing school in a 3 musketeers pastiche setting. Book coming soon.

    Check out my NEW sci-fi TTRPG about first contact. Cool alien races, murderous AIs, and more. New expansion featuring rules for ships! New book here NOW!

    Quote Originally Posted by weckar View Post
    Venger, can you be my full-time memory aid please?
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  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I rather like Twisted Lord, though.
    Just call me Dusk
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    I rather like Twisted Lord, though.
    Didn't you use Twisted Lord in Round XI or so?

    Update: done judge's comments on two entries. Slow and steady, right?
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2013-02-25 at 09:46 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Ponies, the Kim Karsdashian of GITP.
    This is what happens when they let me DM:
    Beyond the Horizon IC / OOC
    A Time to Die: Alpha IC / Bravo IC / OOC

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by OMG PONIES View Post
    Didn't you use Twisted Lord in Round XI or so?

    Update: done judge's comments on two entries. Slow and steady, right?
    Indeed I did. I believe that's the basis of Dusk Eclipse's comment.
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  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Yeah pretty much.
    Just call me Dusk
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  14. - Top - End - #164
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    My power supply has at last arrived! Installation will happen tomorrow, along with some (hopeful) judging scores.

    I think that I've finalized my decision for the next SI.

    Amph, I've got to say, Twisted Lord 4 (Peripheral Invisibility) is a pretty damned neat ability.

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Kuulvheysoon View Post
    My power supply has at last arrived! Installation will happen tomorrow, along with some (hopeful) judging scores.

    I think that I've finalized my decision for the next SI.

    Amph, I've got to say, Twisted Lord 4 (Peripheral Invisibility) is a pretty damned neat ability.
    Yay!

    Can't wait to see what it is.

  16. - Top - End - #166
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Aww...

    I so hoped to see another entry for Incarnum, or Psionics. Just sayin', since while Shadowblade was almost about to pique my interest, it didn't really shone.

    An interesting question will be: any changes on how judges do their job? I think I still have the wounds of last time I got chewed down on judging...
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  17. - Top - End - #167
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Why don't judge judge anonymously too? That might help to mitigate some attacks that might otherwise feel personal.

  18. - Top - End - #168
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    ARE YOU ASKING FOR A CHALLENGE?!
    Well then I accept, thanks.

  19. - Top - End - #169
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by thethird View Post
    Why don't judge judge anonymously too? That might help to mitigate some attacks that might otherwise feel personal.
    Without putting words in his mouth, I suspect part of the issue he's concerned about is that the judges aren't anonymous to the Chair.
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  20. - Top - End - #170
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Oh...

    True, that can always be a problem. Although I guess that it is a necessary evil (not trying to imply that the chairman is evil).

  21. - Top - End - #171
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Psh. Just look at Amphetryon. 'Course he's evil.

  22. - Top - End - #172
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Vaz View Post
    Psh. Just look at Amphetryon. 'Course he's evil.
    Well DUH he is a dwarf Hexblade and Hexblades can't be good
    Just call me Dusk
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  23. - Top - End - #173
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Well DUH he is a dwarf Hexblade and Hexblades can't be good
    L'awful Neutral.
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  24. - Top - End - #174
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    L'awful Neutral.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Nothing more needs be said, methinks.

    Now commencing judging!

    EDIT: 7 down, 6 left to polish off tomorrow.

  25. - Top - End - #175
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    *highly unnecessary rap airhorn noises*

    Results!

    Xen'kar Torkak - 11.25 12.25
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    Originality: 3

    I did not know Scorpion Wrath even existed prior to now, and poison-related builds are pretty rare. The basic tools here are pretty standard, though--we've got a ToB dip, some Drow Fighter ACF, and the rest is built as basic rogue stuff. That's not bad--basic rogue stuff is basic rogue stuff for a reason--but we've seen it before, and I'll probably see it in the other 12 entires. For the poison+drow thing, this hits 3 on the scale, but it doesn't challenge what it means to be the sneaky guy.

    Power: 3

    The posion stuff is a big bump to your effectiveness in backstabbing, and you're basically undetectable. I was going to give this a 2.5 for being a clown in anything that's not assassinating, but then I noticed Hidden Talent. Please explain your build fully--if I didn't know about the "poison everything" use of the feat, you'd lose this 0.5. But as it stands, +61 to Hide is excellent.

    Elegance: 4.25

    Belt of Battle is sort of your go-to to actually get things flat-footed, which I wouldn't dock for, except that you've reslotted it. Removing that option seems like it would put a crimp in your swag. Falls under cheese-rules and WBL dpendence, but it's minor, so, -0.5. As per the appeal, Belt of Battle is an afterthought, but the uses of the hilarious custom item creation rules are still worth a small penalty. -0.25

    You've ignored the very strong fluff of Tome of Battle. I see nothing that addresses it, except for maybe the Umbra, but that's magic and not special ways of swording things. -1 Penalty found to be harsh, considering that most of the build is exactly what it says on the tin. Reduced to -0.5.

    Nitpick: Rogue's Vest doesn't work with Sudden Strike. -0.25 As per the appeal: Yes, it does.

    Nitpick: Proofread. The feat is called "Shadow Blade", not "Shadow Hand", which is a discipline. Your feats and class features columns get mixed after the first few levels. Finally, you have a typo on the first line of your fluff, and some missing punctuation in it somewhere. I know this is so petty coming from me, but still. -0.5

    Bonus: Multiclass-penalties compliant. +0.5

    Bonus: Your build is really easy to follow, you've explained in detail how it works, and everything works pretty much exactly as the rules are set up to work. No cheese! That's elegance to me, and I'm accounting for it under the 'remiss to note' clause. +1

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 2.5

    Shadow and Stealth is checked, and how. (You didn't provide your Move Silently Score, which made me raise an eyebrow since you have only 13 ranks, but from all of those bonuses...yeah.) Same for Sudden Strike. However, I don't get how you're using the signature Unseen Weapon. Your battle strategy depends on killing them before they do anything (Unexpected Strike), Perfect Sight sort of sidelines Unerring Strike, and there's no mention of Far Shadow because you always close with the enemy and instakill it. So you'll basically use Ephemeral Weapon exclusively, except in the case of Shadowy Strike with your last iterative against high-armor foes. On the other hand, you get a lot of mileage out of See in Darkness + Darkness/Sculpt Shadow. I can see why you took Shadowblade, but...I dunno. There's a better way to do what you're doing, I think. You've got a free feat slot one level later. Why not take a bunch of Ninja (Wisdom synergy) and fill that slot with PT(CoE[Baator]), since you're a drow and fit the LE requirement anyway?

    (I just recommended ten levels of Ninja completely unironically. I need to shower...)


    Saleed - 9.25
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    Originality: 1

    SA Thug is the only thing of substance to comment upon, which is a little unusual, but...not special. Besides the Fighter dip, this is a Rogue/Rogue PrC/Rogue PrC with the usual Rogue feats, and I'm afraid I cannot award any points for that.

    Power: 2.5

    Saleed assassinates. Simple enough, but I don't see how he does it any better than a mass-produced rogue. You have a dash of UMD, but UMD is one of those skills that you pump or completely avoid--spending skill ranks to get it to +7 does little more than eat 7 skill points. Similarly, your social skills are neat for the first four levels, but age when you leave them behind. Half a point for halfway fulfilling that role, so you're between 2 and 3 on the ranking.

    Elegance: 4.25

    Bonus: Multiclass-penalties compliant. +0.5

    Nitpick: Your fluff is Narm. Nicknaming your build "Blade in the Shadow" is not ominous, considering the context of this competition. There's also no reflection in the mechanics of being reborn in darkness. -0.25

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 1.5

    Shadow and Stealth pulls you up to standard Rogue levels of Hide/MS, but there's no mention of the see-in-shadow abilities, and you only comment on Unexpected Strike as a tool. If you're only going to use the first ability of a class, just dip it. Or better yet, trade out that Blind-Fight for Martial Study (Emerald Razor). Sorry, but there doesn't appear to be anything special about this use of the SI.


    Hamond Shadowstrike - 13.75
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    Originality: 4

    Beyond what everyone was expecting everyone to do, Avenging Executioner is a neat trick for this. Fear bombs are neat, and beyond that, having two extra natural attacks is an odd choice that I approve of. People often ignore the limitations of charging; Twisted Charge fixes that. We don't need any more ways to negate a rogue, after all. Individually, the charging, fear bomb, and natural attacks don't really challenge how a rogue is "supposed" to work, but together, they do.

    Power: 3.25

    You have the backstabbing covered with variety of ways to make it work, and you can backstab a whole bunch of times in a round. However, two extra attacks only make up for the absence of +2d6 sneak attack that a straight rogue would have, so I'm calling it a wash. Your stealth passes the bar, obviosuly, but it's not spectacular. Cloak of Deception is your selling point, which is a good one. You've replaced party-facing with UMD, but...why are you only using it to make yourself hit harder? There's potential there. Regarding the Penetrating Strike thing, the bonus dice from Hunter's Eye and Assassin's Stance won't add up to much, especially since using a Hunter's Eye wand is expensive and basically cuts off your Unseen Weapon until level 20, so...we'll call it a quarter of a point above "hits the marks uneventfully".

    Elegance: 3.25

    You ignore LST Barbarian's fluff. Which is weird, because you made an attempt to mention everything else in your build. I know that this is really common, but it bugs me and it's in the rubric. -1

    Nitpick: 14 sources is a little overboard. An excess of sources almost never loses points in ICO, so I'm just giving you a written slap on the wrist here. -0

    Nitpick: I'm not sure that Shadow Vision lets you see in magical darkness. Magical darkness is pretty explicit about not being able to see in it even if you otherwise could, so I think you need a specific exception. -0.25

    Bonus: Multiclassing-penalty compliant. +0.5

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.25

    Expected use of the two basics, Shadow and Stealth and Sudden Strike. Wand-tastic exploitation of Shadow Vision/See in Darkness, though see my nitpick above. Like the previous builds, you seem to not really know what to do with Shadowblade's signature ability except add more dice. I'll give you that, but as for most of the things you can tack onto Unseen Weapon, "will be used situationally" is a handwave. Kudos on using the free action to allow Unseen Weapon while in the Cloak of Deception, though. I wish you did more with it, but, eh. Most abilities were used, and a tad more than expected, so you get a tad more than 3.


    Krkitckl - 13.75
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    Originality: 5

    Grig? Trapmaking/Scrollmaking? These would be enough for a high score, but then you top it with Ninja and then completely redefine the role of the sneaky backstabber archetype. Full points! No, really, I have to give you props for not only challenging the paradigm of "sneak in, shiv everything, loot the bodies", but creating a sneaky build that doesn't rely on Hide. It's brilliant!

    Power: 2.75

    You can do the sneakiness thing: despite how you only partially advance Hide and decide "meh; that'll do", you have the size and huge Dex to compensate. You force people to rely on Listen with a variety of techniques, which you're also pretty good at. (But no Darkstalker? Ew.) On the other hand, your precision-damage abilities are poor: you have no way to get more than 3 attacks, and you will usually only have 1 because you need a move action every turn to pinpoint your opponents. Your traps/BFC tactics are a role in and of themselves, which is "Go away!", and you certainly make that work. I imagine that a disgruntled Evoker could absolutely ruin your day, though. You've got a mixed bag here...I would have called this a 3 if you had Darkstalker, but as it stands, you lose a bit.

    Elegance: 4.5

    LA Buyoff. Despite your justification, it's on the rubric. -0.5.

    Bonus: Hey! You're seamlessly combining the fluff and mechanics into a fascinating whole! Why? Normally you're supposed to ignore the fluff and squeeze every point out of the build by ignoring rules technicalities! I'll give you a bag of kudos for this, but make sure you cheese out next time so I can slice and dice your elegance score to nothing. +1

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 1.5

    You're not using Shadow And Stealth very well (only MS), and the application of Sudden Strike is a bit lackluster. Shadow Sight is useful for defending during the night, and See in Darkness combines with your Glyphs of Darkness, but I'd like to see more explicit uses. The bad part is that you don't mention Unseen Weapon abilities at all, and your build seems completely independent of them--at high levels, Shadowblade is your "primary offensive capability", but, how? The Sudden Strike damage still isn't all that great, you have no use of Far Shadow due to wielding a ranged weapon, and none of the other abilities are really...useful, I guess, except the +2d6 damage one. The capstone is also completely superfluous. Unfortunately, you have not answered the question of why you're a Shadowblade. But you do use it a little, so you get a little.


    Munemasa - 10.5
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    Originality: 5

    This doesn't act like a rogue at all. IJF is a bit out-there. Still, Savant, Paladin? Oh boy. I have to sit down for this one.

    Power: 1.5

    I can't evaluate it based on the standard rogue rubric, since you're obviously doing something else with Shadowblade. Here's the problem. Your build barely works.

    Iaijutsu focus only functions when the enemy is flat-footed, and you have only one reliable method of activating it: Sapphire Nightmare Blade. With the first, you'll get one IJF attempt per combat, which makes the Gnome Quickrazor pointless. (You'll rarely win initiative against anything that matters, since you have only +1.) Marbles will be very situational; they only fill a five-foot square. The rules are very choppy on how to spread them--I can't find anything on the appropriate action--but tossing the bag into the opponent's square should be a standard action, as it is AC 5 to hit a square, and attacking is usually a standard action. This means you can't attack with your razor that round. Good luck with that.

    You have various things to pump Hide with, but you don't have Hide in Plain Sight, which means that it's sort of pointless as an IJF-harvesting tool. Your level 12 strategy of "Hit AC 10, then IJF the prone guy next turn" doesn't work because enemies are not flat-footed when prone--but you do get a free attack if you manage to trip them, which they won't be flat-footed for, since you've already blown your Sapphire Nightmare Blade attack. But it doesn't matter because you're not a good tripper: you need more than BAB and Improved Trip to make it work at higher levels. You can probably get away with it at 6th, but not for much longer.

    As a melee character, you don't have Power Attack, any decent way to hide, and you have no method of getting a full attack with your Iaijustu Focus. So, you only get one shot with an IJF/SS Sapphire Nightmare Blade, and then you're spent.

    On the bright side, Diplomancy and party-facing are always useful! Props for that. You can also Hide, but without Move Silently, it's pointless. Autohypnosis also finds it uses. But this is just not enough for me, sadly. You've built for a specific purpose and sort of fallen flat.

    Elegance: 2.75

    Explain your swag, please. You do not provide evaluations of 5th, 10th, and 15th level, nor do you explain your choices of Savant + Paladin and what they do for your build, nor do you tell us your race. I can figure it all out because I'm a munchkin, but still. It's not straightforward, and enough for a more severe penalty than the rubric suggests, because of the "remiss" clause. Omitting your race is kind of a big deal. -1

    The fluff of Iaijustsu Focus is very specific. Your backstory nods to samurai and weird blade skills, but...I don't like it. The blade skills are Shadowblade, right? Samurai make Iaijutsu Focus go down smoother, but not smoothly enough for me. -0.5

    Nitpick: Formatting. "New Feats". -0.25

    Bonus: Multiclassing-penalty compliant. You're Human, right? +0.5

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 1.25

    Since you have very little use for Hide and ignore Move Silently, no points for Shadow and Stealth. You get limited mileage from Sudden Strike, only for Sapphire Nightmare Blade. You use Unexpected Strike so that you can hit AC 10ish, but don't use any of the other Unseen Weapon abilities. You mention the capstone as freeing up your swift action, but nothing else in your build requires a swift action, making it superfluous. I feel like you should have just dipped the PrC at most and then followed with Rogue or something. You get +.25 for having a reason, but it's so tenuous that I can't give you more.

    ...Okay, that was harsh. Sorry. Judging, and all. Write a bit more for us, next time.


    Jef Costello - 16
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    Originality: 4

    This build approaches the sneakiness concept in a pretty bizarre way. Etherealness with Mindsight and getting to smite your target anyway, from a room away. Sweet. Definitely challenges the rogue archetype.

    Power 4:

    Etherealness, tracking from another room, and standard Hide/MS maxing means that you excel at being a sneak. Assassination is also covered, and how--the fact that you can use walls as one-way doors is a phenomenal solution to having only one attack. Plus, you actually have a whole bunch of SS dice. Bluff doesn't quite take care of party-facing, but you make up for it by having a way to deal Charisma damage to break you out of one-trick pony mode. Mindsight's scouting abilities prop you up, too. So I'm calling this a good-good-okay on the rubric, which is a 4. See, you give yourself more options by taking Maiming Strike, instead of just going "more d6s!".

    Elegance: 3

    Nitpick: Mindsight doesn't actually work with Shedu Crown. Mindsight doesn't just require Telepathy; it also requires it as a special quality. Soulmelds aren't that, I'm afraid, and anyway, Shedu Crown's bound ability is never actually called out as telepathy. It just says you can communicate telepathically. This is a pretty common way to get Mindsight, though, so...I'm filing it under rules violation, but it's debatable (I have no idea what I'm doing!), so we're halving the penalty. -0.25

    Rules violation: You can only take a feat while you're qualifying for it. This means that you can't take Flyby Attack during the same level-up in which you're getting Animal Devotion, since there's no way you'll have the fly speed. Switch it around with Maiming Strike, and your build won't fall apart, but it's still pretty jarring. -1

    Rules violation: You can have neither Claws of the Wyrm nor Dragon Tail without the [Dragonblood] subtype, and Dragon Tail cannot be used as part of a full attack. -0.75; rules violation cap reached.

    Bonus: Multiclass-penalty compliant. +0.5

    Bonus: You treat the fluff with respect. +0.5

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 4.5 5

    I'll debate your helpful analysis: See in darkness is way less useful when your primary method of attack puts you behind LoE at all times. Far Shadow is less useful when you don't have access to Claws of the Wyrm. Still, you really make this build work with Shadowblade in a way that no other PrC can, and let its abilities deal with most cases that otherwise trip up rogues. This isn't a perfect use of Shadowblade, but it's very high up there.

    ...three days after judging this, I've found myself continually referring back to this build as my "how to Shadowblade" for the other entries. The above paragraph was written for a score of 4.5, but in light of what I've been thinking in spite of the flaws, it's getting bumped up to the full 5. Congrats.


    Mortumdal - 13.5
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    Originality: 3

    Gravetouched Ghoul Killoren focusing on paralysis. Sweet. Yet, I don't see this build playing particularly differently than most rogues...no 4. It is different, though, so, have the "quirky selections" score.

    Power: 2.5

    The template makes up for two lost ranks in Hide/MS, and you did pick up HiPS (go go Lurking Terror!), but nothing all that special. I'll call it an "okay", but you are going to be kicking yourself for not having Darkstalker if you play this. You don't have as many SS dice as most of the others, but you know what? If SS works, paralysis works, so I'm totally giving this one to you. Seriously, those save DCs. Your party-face skills don't have as many pluses as I would like; you can really only Gather Information at high levels and hoodwink the town guard...partial credit, then. Two-and-a-half prongs is halfway between 2 and 3, so that's what you get.

    Elegance: 4.5

    Gravetouched Ghoul is pretty specific about its fluff. You treat it as a standard "came back to life" undeath bit. This sort of fits, but...partial credit. -0.5

    Bonus: Multiclass-penalty compliant. +0.5

    Bonus: Feat progression and tactics are straightforward and focused, which is nice to see, even if it does crimp your versatility. +0.5

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.5

    I get why you've taken Shadowblade: attacking AC 10 with improved range, so that your paralysis can go off. That and stealth bonuses. The other stuff is pretty vanilla, though. I gave Jef Costello a good score for having a focused application of the abilities, though, and I can't think of an immediate way to get the effect you're using with levels in other classes. You rather neglect the other Unseen Weapon abilities (+2d6 doesn't really matter on a x4 CdG)...I'm confused. You know what, you use most of the stuff (3) and have a trick that doesn't work with anything else. Halfway to the next point.


    Geula Abishag - 10.75 11
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    Originality: 3.25

    Spellthief/Duskblade synergy is a pretty cool toy to lay on the table, and while debuffing is nothing new, you don't see it on every rogue. But then, the "rogue" concept is only a little bit out of its comfort zone even with those. So you get nudged a little towards 4.

    Power: 2.75

    You have the stats to hide, and quite so, but I don't see Darkstalker, and Mantle of Darkness is coming in pretty late to be your HiPS. The numbers are good, though. I'll...pass this, what the heck. You can shiv things reliably with Darkness synergy, but I'm wary because you only get one use per day. It extends to 3+ hours at level 20, but, still. It's a good thing you took Improved Feint as a subsitute! Instead of party-facing (though you could do the Bluff thing), you have debuffing. However, you've overstated a few things: you can't steal SLAs (Master Spellthief doesn't give you that), the spells you steal only go up to 3rd level, and the power of your spells is low even after you're done stripping spell resistance. Still, that pulls away buffs such as Haste. But there are huuuuge classes of enemies you're ineffective against; your debuffing is situational. Partial credit. So, two passes and a partial...2.5 Oversight on the judge's part of not noticing Negate SLA; +0.25 to power = 2.75.

    Elegance: 2.5

    Oi, Lesser Planetouched. On the rubric. -0.5

    Rules Violation: That is not how Initiator Level works. You can't take a 9th level maneuver with IL 9, in the same way that you can't cast 9th level spells as a 9th level wizard. You need IL 17. This doesn't make your build shuffle around, but this is oversight is big. -0.75

    Nitpick: Feycraft weapons don't exactly work like they say they do on IMarvinTPA. You get Dex to-hit if the item is light, not Dex to damage. Yeah, I know. It would be convenient, but, hey. -0.25

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 2.5

    Hmm. Shadow and Stealth, Sudden Strike...how are you using this stuff in a way other than exactly as int--oh, there; Obscuring Mist + Unerring Strike. Unexpected Strike to make Steal Spells work anytime there isn't an immunity. Quickened True Striking a Shadowy Strike...eh, I'm not buying it; touch attacks are ridiculously easy. But I'm wondering why you didn't just go Assassin and swap Mountain Tombstone Strike for Emerald Razor or something; True Strikes ignore concealment, and Emerald Razor forces touch attacks...still, you got some use out of Shadowblade, which isn't exactly copied by Assassin+Emerald Razor, because True Strike takes a standard action after the first combat per day. But the only interesting trick I see is Obscuring Mist/Unerring Strike. Hmm...I don't want to call this a "contributes meaningfully", and the spotlight is on the stuff that surrounds Shadowblade, but there's not a perfect replacement (almost, but not quite).
    Last edited by Kazyan; 2013-02-28 at 07:33 PM. Reason: Accounting for Xen'kar Torkak's appeal.

  26. - Top - End - #176
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Keeliani Amaruak - 11
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    Originality: 4

    Wh...what am I even reading? I understand, but you've created something really bizarre to me. I'm not sure how to articulate it. However, you use a lot of known cheese and tricks to achieve this effect, so I won't give you the off-the-wall score of 5.

    Power: 5

    Infinite strength. You cover your other bases well enough that this isn't a one-trick pony, either, which was the only way I could justify giving a build with infinite strength anything less than 5.

    Elegance: 1

    Whoa whoa whoa, time out. 5 + 2n templates is too kludgy. -0.5

    Cheese/Rules violation: Unseelie Fey. Come on, guys. The gnome statblock's LA is clearly a misprint; the template itself has no listed LA. -0.5.

    Lesser Aasimar. It's on the rubric of things I'd dock for. -0.5

    Cheese: Getting yourself corpsecrafted with everything. That probably deserves an LA unless you can get it in-game and organically. -0.5

    Cheese: Infinite strength at 2nd level is Not Okay. -0.5

    Proofread. You ran out on filling your skill points halfway through. -0.5

    *foams at the mouth* Two totemist levels useless for 9 levels. If I didn't note that, I should be forced to play a Soulborn in a campaign with Tippy. -1

    Rules violation/Cheese: Black Sand osteopathy is waaaay into homebrew territory, specifically the osteopathy part. It should fall into the Graft rules, especially since doing it would chew away your HP, and as you inserted it, you'd close the hole. Even then, it still might not work, though I acknowledge its precedent in the Dread Necromancer Handbook: Black Sand is described under "magical locations" wherever it's mentioned--so the sand might stop working when removed--it has no listed price, and there is a Curmudgeon-style argument that it doesn't actually heal undead. If you get to cheese, I get to anticheese: it says nowhere that undead are universally healed by negative energy; there is simply an exception in basically every spell in the game...except for Black Sand's description. Oh, and you're not getting the Darkness around you; your flesh blocks LoE. -1

    ICOitp rules violation: Partial BAB. "Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field." I count Partial BAB; it gives you categorical leg up on everyone else. -1

    CTRL+C CTRL+V: Nitpick: Mindsight doesn't actually work with Shedu Crown. Mindsight doesn't just require Telepathy; it also requires it as a special quality. Soulmelds aren't that, I'm afraid, and anyway, Shedu Crown's bound ability is never actually called out as telepathy. It just says you can communicate telepathically. This is a pretty common way to get Mindsight, though, so...I'm filing it under rules violation, but it's debatable (I have no idea what I'm doing!), so we're halving the penalty. -0.25

    You handwave the very strong fluff of the Totemist and Crusader. -0.5

    This entry threw me for a loop, and I was prepared to declare it illegal with an Elegance score of 0--on account of the osteopathy and partial BAB. After some behind-the-scenes discussion with the chairman, I've decided against this, due to board consensus on how Black Sand works. I have no ill will towards the contestant, whoever they may be, but I ask the following: Next time, don't pretzel the rules.

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 1
    You don't use Shadow and Stealth. You can't have Sudden Strike at ranges higher than 30'. Unseen Weapon doesn't work with ranged weapons, so your javelins don't benefit. You're not in Darkness, so you have no use of See in Darkness. You do not finish the SI. Even if you went into melee, three of the Unseen Weapon abilities become meaningless because you have infinite to-hit and damage.

    You should have taken 0 levels instead of 7, because that would have the same effect on the build.


    Tacgnol - 15.25
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    Originality: 5

    Why do I care about reach-stacking on a rogue? *opens spoiler panels*

    Oh, that's why. :) It's a really inventive way to stay in the shadows as you clobber people. And using Bulwark of Defense in tandem to prevent things from getting to you? I've never seen that before and it's glorious.

    Power: 3.25

    You have the stats to do the stealth thing, but no Darkstalker. 'K. You can deal SS damage with the help of the swindlespitter/HiPS--and props on getting that last iterative--and yet, I don't see this build getting too much mileage out of SS, honestly. Partial credit. I'll allow you hilarious Bulwark Of Defense shenanigans to count for the third prong. And boy, does it count. so we have pass-meh-great...let's go with 3.25.

    Elegance: 3.75

    This reads very much like one of those builds on the forums that only works at level 20ish. You know the type. For most of the build, it seems like you're just getting by until you can reach-stack. You have enough toys to get by, but I still want to note this. -0.25

    Bonus: Multiclassing-penalty compliant. +0.5

    You have assorted fluff issues. Putting a veil of "some sort of dark creature" over a build that involves shifting and aberrant feats is shaky, and Knight has some strong fluff attached that you dispense with. I will, however, halve this penalty because of the hilarity that is Tacgnol. That's how you explain reach! -0.5 = -1+0.5

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 3.25

    Stealth and Shadow, Far Shadow...UW(Free Action) leaves room for Burning Brand, but that's small. Sudden Strike gets used. But you mostly ignore the rest of Shadowblade's abilities, you just tell me that they can be used, but you have to show how they can be used outside of the vacuum of the sourcebook page. In particular, no mention of See in Darkness or its little brother. I was about to suggest Umbral Disciple, but looking over Kiss of the Shadows more closely, you're taking advantage of a subtle distinction that makes Far Shadow work where Kiss doesn't. Cool. Still, if the only things you're taking this class for are +Stealth and Far Shadow...eh, I gave Jef good marks. 3.25, because Shadowblade doesn't just contibute; it's integral. I'd be pushing the rubric too much to give you more.


    Briggs - 17.75
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    Originality: 4

    Ooh, a Binder. I wouldn't know how to make it work myself, but it shows that you know your pact magic. And this build doesn't exactly fight like most rogues--I see you've dumped Dexterity. Odd ways of using the abilities. I like this.

    Power: 4.5

    Garblwharbl guyyyyys take Darkstalker on your stealth builds. Should I have clarified beforehand that I'm not taking off points in Originality for must-haves? Anyway, you do pretty well at that even from the beginning, through the use of Tenebrous, I like the +2s you get to the Stealth abilities from the bloodline, and then the extra advancing of Shadow and Stealth. However, the numbers only add up to an extra +3.5 near the end, and your Dex is only 10...you know what, Tenebrous and Paimon make that not matter nearly so much. It passes. As for the backstabbing, finally, someone takes Power Attack! Your "damage steroids" provide a real kick, though I'm concerned that almost everything you have will target an immunity. For example, an undead would negate your Death Devotion, SS (but everyone has that problem), probably some Touch of the Void, and--oh wait, Turn Undead! Never mind! And with Far Shadow Whirlwind, yep, you go far. I think I'll give you a 'very good' on the third prong for access to Zceryll, among the other vestiges. You're nearing the 'flatly better than a rogue' stage. If you had Darkstalker, you'd get a 4.75 or 5.

    Sidenote: Precise Strike works like you think it does, but I don't see the point in trading SS damage for PA damage, when the latter would be smaller. Nd6 > 2N.

    Elegance: 4.75

    The bloodline. Don't look at me; it's on the rubric. I will say that you used it tastefully, though; see the bonus. -0.5

    Nitpick: I don't think you can use Unerring Strike in the middle of an attack roll. The game sort of implies that there's something special about taking an action in the middle of an action, and even though Swift actions can be used at the same time as free actions, I'm unsure. -0.25

    Nitpick/Item dependence: It's unclear if Tenebrous's Turn Undead thing can be expended for feats. It might or might not work. I wouldn't jump on this if you didn't use Nightsticks, which are a side-eye-tastic way of doing the Turn Undead thing. -0.25

    Bonus: Natural class progression. It's basically Base 10/PrC 10 with the bloodline inserted exactly how it's recommended. +0.5

    Bonus: Newbie-friendly. You could take this character to a new party and you would get basically zero complaints. It helps a lot that the fluff sticks together like glue (you're a guy with demons, spirit-pacts, shadow, and a spiked-chain cherry on top). The picture really seals the deal. Excellent choice of one. +0.5

    Bonus: Multiclass-penalty compliant. And how. +0.5

    Bonus: Being tasteful with the bloodline. Your abilities are advanced in a natural way; I'm not seeing the "load up on EVERYTHING" abuse. This is respect for the optimization tool. If only Hellfire Warlock would be used half as gracefully. +0.25

    Use of the Secret Ingedient: 4.5

    You kick up Shadow and Stealth creatively, get a little mileage out of SS with Tenebrous, and you love you some Far Shadow and capstone. Of course, I have to dock you for obsoleting the See in Darkness line. Unerring Strike...see the Elegance comment. Shadowy and Unexpected Strikes are useable with Power Attack, which is sort of expected (why did no one else do it!?). Ephemeral Strike is used the same way it is in the vacuum of the page.

    Hmm. This really showcases the SI's strengths. I don't want to give you full marks because of ignoring See in Darkness, but I really don't want to give you less than 4. You at least deserve the same score I gave Jef for leaving some abilities disused, so there.


    Ynolar Darkheart - 11
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    Originality: 2.25

    Paladin is kinda weird, but then I checked out the Shadow Cloak Knight substitution levels, and suddenly it's not. But kudos for using something I had never heard of. Beyond this, you sorta built exactly what it says on the tin for a "Shadowblade".

    Power: 4.5

    Finally, someone else has supercranked their hiding abilities. But here's my problem: Shadow Cloak Knight's HiPS requires you to be within 10 feet of a shadowy hiding spot. Your strategy is about flying, where there are seldom shadows. But let's call this "good" because your numbers are great and you have Darkstalker. You can backstab, particularly since you have such a good to-hit, and there's Sapphire Nightmare Blade/Deathstrike Bracers and poison...we'll call this good as well. You try to keep your AC high, but...SonofZeal posted an analysis a while back about how high AC needs to be by level, and you're adequate, but don't have a good return on investment, at level 20. Should I count your save debuffing, since it involves...yeah, I should. So, a little AC and a little debuffing. I'll could that as a passing third prong. Good-good-pass. You're not flatly better than a rogue, since you've ignored skills, but I can call this a close 4.5.

    Elegance: 2
    You made little mention of how your build actually plays, between your lists of equipment and such. I had to analyze the entry to figure out how to play this character. -0.5

    Nitpick: Proofread. It's "Shadow Blade", not "Shadow Hand". Yeah, WotC sort of retreats the same ground over and over and over when it comes to shadows, but please get this correct. (There's also only one space in "Flyby Attack", and your fluff needs help with punctuation and capitalization.) -0.5

    Cheese/Rules violation: Unseelie Fey. Come on, guys. The gnome statblock's LA is clearly a misprint; the template itself has no listed LA. For you, this dismantles two feats and your fighting strategy, which is definitely a negation of one of your tricks, which is a -1.

    Bonus: Natural class progression. Base 6/Prc 10/Base 4 is respectable. Good job. +0.5

    The fluff blurb does justice to the Paladin of Tyranny, which you get props for, but you ignore the swordsage's fightan' magic dojo thing. And Unseelie Fae's, for what it's worth, which isn't much. -0.5

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 2.25

    It hurts your score when you don't explain what you're doing. I see no way to use the See in Darkness line, or what you get out of the Unseen Weapon abilities. You have some swift action maneuvers to use the capstone alongside, and I suppose your flight means that you get mileage out of Far Shadow. Shadow and Stealth/SS, well, duh. I can't condone taking the SI and then leaving its signature abilities disused. It doesn't really contribute anything unique beyond Far Shadow being out of the way for swift action uses. And, yeah, +5 Hide/MS.


    Nightman - 14.5 15
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    Originality: 4

    It's a build with more than 6 levels of Monk. Oh. Oh, that's where the whispers of optimization nerd-rage were coming from. This is odd--tripping, teleporting, and stunning aren't high on the Rogue's list of duties. This fits the "challenges but doesn't need to defy" part of the rubric almost to a tee.

    Power: 4.25

    I'm sort of flabbergasted at how many ways you have to deny Dex to someone. I have a quibble with something, though: Dark Moon Disciple grants you permaconcealment, which you can hide in, which makes HiPS superfluous. Contestant appeal accepted (+0.25); HiPS is intended to work when full daylight is out. On the other hand, Invisible Fist is useable in more situations, feinting works even if the other guy has Mindsight, and of course there's the SI. You can reliably make the backstabbing happen, even though your fistful of d6 is modest. I mention Dex-denying first because the methods are so closely tied to your hiding, which I'm concerned about. Your Hide only gets up +32 if we give you a +6 Dex item, and though you can Hide anywhere and erryday, the number is lower than that of a competent rogue--which probably has Darkstalker. You have some miscellanous toys to make up the third prong of versatility...Trip+Blink Shirt+Stunning Fist don't come across as all that substantial, though. So we have a YES-meh-meh. If you couldn't do the final two at all, I'd say 3.5, but you can.

    Elegance: 4.25

    Proofread. You have "essential" in a few places where you should have "essentia", which is a pet peeve of mine, and the essentia progression in the class features column for 8-10 is incorrect. If you're declining to capitalize sentences, be consistent with it. -0.5

    Bonus: Multiclassing-penalty compliant. And how. +0.5

    Bonus: Somewhat natural class progression. I don't want to give it the full 0.5, but Base 7/PrC 3/Prc 10 works. +0.25

    The fluff of the classes really flow together, with Umbral Disciple making an excellent transition, but I'm wondering where Dark Moon Disciple's thing with Shar has gone. You've got a lot of substitution levels; I'm curious about them. Since you've done well with the overall fitting of the fluff, no points off. 0

    Use of the Secret Ingredient: 2.5

    Using a class skill is creative. S&S/SS is duh, but I like how S&S is making up for an otherwise lackluster Hide score. Though you use Unexpected Strike, which is pretty nice for your strategy of denying Dexterity to everything no matter what, I don't see the other abilities mentioned. Nothing to do with the See In Darkness line. The capstone lets you Invisible Fist and shuffle essentia, at least, but it's not terribly useful if you're not going to use Unseen Weapon much. I'd probably just go Swordsage, pick up Assassin's Stance and Emerald Razor/Sapphire Nightmare Blade, then Rogue or something, but we're getting pretty involved there. The ramble-tastic point here is that you should use the SI's signature abilities, otherwise we're doing the Hide/Stab optimization every rogue does.


    Over the course of judging, my calibration for points and penalties may have shifted from being exposed to the same ideas repeatedly. If any of you guys find that I've given different amounts of points/penalties for the exact same thing, please bring it up in the usual way.
    Last edited by Kazyan; 2013-02-28 at 11:10 AM. Reason: Accounting for Nightman's appeals

  27. - Top - End - #177
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Awesome, thanks, Kazyan!

    I'm posting on someone else's computer right now, so I'm going to hold off on a table for now. If no one beats me to it, I'll edit a scores table in when I get back.
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  28. - Top - End - #178
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Thanks, Kazyan. Initial query:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightman
    Dark Moon Disciple grants you permaconcealment, which you can hide in, which make HiPS superfluous.
    dark moon monk works in "any conditions other than full daylight"

    It is imprudent to assume that no combats at all will take place in full daylight, so umbral disciple's hips is there to help nightman hide when there is too much sunshine around for him to hide.




    Rules Violation: You've misunderstood how the essentia table for Umbral Disciple works. It's not cumulative--you gain a total of 2 essentia from 3 levels in Umbral Disciple. This is important because you apparently keep 2 locked into Embrace of Shadow at all times, leaving you with only one point to play with. This means that you can't use the Blink Shirt without turning off HiPS, except when the enemies are very close, which is a special case. -0.5
    I did not misunderstand the rules for umbral disciple. nowhere do I say that it is cumulative. skarn monk at level 5 gives me a point of essentia, which I both put in the chart and mentioned in the level 5 playtips section. 1 from skarn monk and 2 from umbral disciple give me a total of 3 essentia points.

    as mentioned, umbral disciple's hips works when I am in any sort of natural terrain, as with ranger. shadow blend works when I'm not in full daylight, so the two are intended to cover each other's blind spots.

    since I won't always be in the wilderness, I won't always have to have essentia invested to give me hips, since as you mentioned, shadow blend lets me hide, so I will really only need one up at any given time.

    since I have 3 points of essentia, I can, even with 2 in embrace of shadow, put 1 in for 20 feet, or when I am not in natural terrain, put all 3 points into the blink shirt (restricted as usual by level) for 40 feet of teleportation. investing essentia is a swift, so even if I do need to switch out between rounds, I'll be covered as long as I didn't burn my swift on invisible fist.

    I can use blink shirt when enemies are a respectable distance, and don't always need to turn off hips.

    Bonus: Somewhat natural class progression. I don't want to give it the full 0.5, but Base 7/PrC 3/Prc 10 works. +0.25

    The fluff of the classes really flow together, with Umbral Disciple making an excellent transition, but I'm wondering where Dark Moon Disciple's thing with Shar has gone. You've got a lot of substitution levels; I'm curious about them. Since you've done well with the overall fitting of the fluff, no points off. 0
    I have no specific questions here, but I would like to know how one would net the full 0.5 if 7/3/10 does not get it. could you explain what you mean?
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  29. - Top - End - #179
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Quote Originally Posted by Piggy Knowles View Post
    Awesome, thanks, Kazyan!

    I'm posting on someone else's computer right now, so I'm going to hold off on a table for now. If no one beats me to it, I'll edit a scores table in when I get back.
    Probably for the best that you held off on that, man. Here come some more scores.

    Xen’kar Torkak – 12.25
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    Originality: I completely expected to see Swordsage and Ranger, but I’d forgotten about H&R Fighter. Scorpion Wraith, however, was excellent. Nice fluff, as well. 3.5

    Power: +16 BAB is very nice for a primarily melee build. Scorpion Wraith combines nicely with the SI for BFC (darkness and See in Darkness) and general feels. I’m sorry, but I really don’t see how you’re applying Deadly Sting to 2 attacks. It very clearly states that it’s on the weapon until delivered. If I’m missing something, feel free to chime in. It would have been nice to have a more... general description of tactics (especially at differing levels), and perhaps some discussion on your swift actions, because at any level lower than 20th, you’ve got options at any time – Unseen Weapon, manoeuvres, Deathstrike bracers, “belt” of battle, etc... You’re also relatively fragile. You’ve also got a pretty awesome Hide check, so there is that. 3

    Elegance: Nice synergy between Scorpion Wraith and the SI, especially in the feat tax (Blindfight). Unfortunately, according to my criterion, you’ve got been accused of both dipping, and doing it excessively (Ranger 1/H&R Fighter 2/Swordsage 2), so you take a hit there. On the other hand, you filled out 2 complete prestige classes, so there is that. Usage (and assumption) of custom item availability isn’t something that I’d really like to rely on, either. What did you mean by “Cloak of Deception (2)*”, as written under your manoeuvres heading? 2

    UoSI: You fully qualify for the SI and make very good use of Hide/MS, though you don’t appear to have a single use for Bluff (so why is there 11 ranks instead of the bare minimum?). Shadowblade contributes a fair bit to your essential functioning – what with Unseen Weapon, the Hide/MS bonuses and Sudden Strike. It seems a fairly logical move from Scorpion Wraith to the SI, as they’re both stealth-focused SS classes. 4.25

    Completely unrelated to scoring, but next time, could you have your table columns stacking, showing the base totals at each level? Your formatting made my eyes bleed.


    Saleed – 14
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    Originality: Funny enough, I had a build in the works that was almost exactly the same as this, Thug variant and everything. Interesting story – and you definitely fulfil the Special Requirement of this SI. 2.5

    Power: Six attacks a round is pretty nice, especially when you consider how much precision damage is being tossed on there. And you’re absolutely correct about him not being built to last in a prolonged fight – After the initial (hopefully) surprise round, he’s got to rip through his unseen weapon uses. 4

    Elegance: Slight ding for the Thug ‘dip’, but it’s completely recovered by that nice bit of manoeuvring at the end there to nab +2d6 SA in two levels. Full qualifications for all feats. 3

    UoSI: Full usage of Hide/MS, with no use for Bluff. You use/mention the majority of the class’s abilities, and I can’t argue that more rogue/assassin levels would have helped you more more than the unseen weapon abilities. Bonus points for fulfilling the Special Requirement in your fluff, as well. 4.5


    Hamond Shadowstrike – 15
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    Originality: Interesting fluff, and while I did not expect Silverbrow or Feat Rogue, Rogue itself was expected. Avenging Executioner was a (delightful) bonus. 4

    Power: That’s... a lot of attacks, even ignoring the fact that the bite is 2/day (for 1 minute) and that both tail and bite are made at -5 penalties. Toss on literal fistful of d6s and watch the blood drain from your DM’s face. Ferocity is a boost, but it’s also a single daily use. I’m going to frown a bit on cloud of knives (and haste), as this build is about characters, not UMD’d items, but since that doesn’t affect your overall power too much, it’s a decidedly minor hit. Minor nitpick – you only get Twisted Charge at 7th level, not <5, as advertised. Pounce just makes this tastier. 4.5

    Elegance: Fairly straightforward, except for the obvious dips into Barbarian (for Pounce) and Warblade (for manoeuvres and the superior recovery mechanic (over Swordsage)). Full qualifications. 2.75

    UoSI: You easily qualify (though no usage of Bluff) and make good use of Hide/MS. One of the best parts about 5 level prestige classes is that you can’t argue for more of those in a build... except here, but that 10th Shadowblade level is just too tempting to take. 3.75


    Krkitckl - 12 12.25
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    Originality: You know, I was starting to wonder if we’d see a ninja appear here. But seriously, a grig? Mad props, man, mad props. That came out of nowhere. Wizard was also a surprise, along with Combat Trapsmith. Love the story (I’ve been on a Gargoyles kick recently, and the fae there? Definitely not all sugar and spice). Bonus for Unseen Arrow, one of the feats I know of that’s designed for a prestige class. 5

    Power: Although you do have +7d6 SS and three attacks, a lack of Rapid Reload and the fact that you said yourself that you rely on ranged attacks leaves you with a single attack per round. However, you’ve got the sheer utility of 2nd level wizard spells combined with Combat Trapsmith, which will help salvage this somewhat. But if foes successfully save against blindness, he’s in for a heap of trouble. No Darkstalker? Tsk tsk, man. 2

    Elegance: Flows alright, save the Rogue dip. You’re using UMD for the glyphs, correct? Either you’re laying large-scale glyphs, or making a lot of little ones (for more saves). The former suffers from single save effects, while the other gets horrendously expensive (note that you must still pay the material components for wand’d spells, so the wands are consequently more expensive). Other than that, everything appears to be in order. Did you... save up skill points to dump into UMD at your Rogue level? You are aware that you can’t carry over unused skill points from level to level, right? This isn’t NWN. 2.5 2.75

    UoSI: You would be able to pull off much the same scheme with more ninja levels. Ghost step (ethereal) is exactly what you’re looking for here, in all honesty. Although those would all be against flat-footed AC instead of touch, so a point against that argument there. You make surprisingly bad use of Bluff, Hide and MS (none of them maxed), but you do take all ten levels. 2.5


    Munemasa – 9.25
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    Originality: Was not expecting Savant, Paladin or Exemplar. However, your fluff doesn’t seem to match the build at all. From the sounds of the fluff, I was expecting a Samurai/Ronin, with a few odd feats/class levels. 3

    Power: You’ve got multiple attacks, full IA and gnomish quickrazors. I think that you’ve got a fair handle on damage, and you can keep it up all day, really. You don’t really get all that much out of Shadowblade (only the unseen weapon qualities, which are admittedly kinda nice here, especially Far Shadow); see UoSI for more. As well, you’re lacking a method of HiPS – so you have no way or returning to Hidden status, which means that SNB is your only real method of creating flat-footedness.2.75

    Elegance: First off, you don’t qualify for EWP (Gnomish quickrazor) at 1st level. It requires a BAB of +1. Easy enough to switch around that and Blindfight, though, so only a minor hit. Savant and Fighter dips, however, are going to hurt you. 2.5

    UoSI: ...You have the bare minimum in MS, but not Hide, with no way to replicate a silence effect, so your sneaking will be severely hampered, especially given that many monsters have good Listen checks. Of course, your tactics imply that you won’t be sneaking much, so you aren’t using class features. Honestly, this entire concept works better with Iaijutsu Master instead of Shadowblade, with some Rogue tossed in for additional SA (which is easier to obtain than SS). 1.5


    Jef Costello – 15
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    Originality: Expected Ninja, but a Totemist 1? 2nd level grants you the nicest stuff, so wasn’t expecting anyone to skip out on that. Hells, Totemist in general wasn’t expected, as unseen weapon specifically applies to a melee weapon that you hold. Cleric is a bonus. I’ve got to admit, I quite enjoyed your story. Fits well with your crunch, too. 4

    Power: Your strategy actually works. You’ve stumbled upon one of the very few ways to attack from the Ethereal plane (the easiest way is to buy a specific sword from CPsi). You’re in trouble if you come across a higher-level caster, but then again, what mundane character isn’t? Excellent focus on stealth and abilities that keep going and going (once you get the Chakra Bind (shoulders) feat). High SS die count (+9d6) helps make up for the otherwise lack of damage. 4.25

    Elegance: Unfortunately, there’s a slight problem with your build. Draconic soulmelds (such as Claws of the Wyrm) are only available to characters with the [dragonblood] subtype, and it states such on page 83 of Dragon Magic. You’re also dinged for your pair of dips. 2.5

    UoSI: You make excellent use of the unseen weapon abilities, and the stealth bonuses and vision properties. I’ve got no real complaints here – it does exactly what you need it to. 4.25


    Mortumdal – 12.75
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    Originality: Gravetouched Ghoul Killoren Lurking Terror (which I had to look up!)? No way. That completely makes up for the fact that I expected both Ranger and Swashbuckler, and the good story nets you bonus points. No mention of the... diet requirement, however. If anywhere, the fluff would have been the place to put it. 3.75
    Power: I’ve got to admit, focusing on your paralysis to activate SS is a pretty novel concept. When it works, it really works. And with a Fort save of DC 33, it’ll work a fair bit of the time, leaving them helpless to your wrath. With Darkstalker, your ranks in Hide/MS remain relevant, and when you hit HiPS, you become deadly. +5d6 SS and Insightful strike, you’re doing alright for damage, especially since you attack with your natural weapons and force a pretty good Fort save for each one. 4.5
    Elegance: Dipping Ranger is going to hurt you here. I’m going to also hit you for applying unseen weapon to your natural weapons. It states a ‘melee weapon you wield’, and you aren’t really holding your mouth. On the other hand, you do manage to finish off Lurking Terror. 2.5
    UoSI: Shadowblade definitely improves your character. You make good use of Hide/MS, and you make alright use of Bluff. SS helps as you’re CdGing everything that breathes (except elves, who have an amusing immunity to your paralysis). Although your usage of unseen weapon on natural attacks id very questionable, the fact remains that you can still use it on your pick. And CdG from ten feet away. 4


    Geula Abishag – 14.75 15
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    Originality: Hellbreaker – Hells yeah. Spellthief and duskblade were also unexpected. And I love seeing CG tieflings (even the lesser variants). 4

    Power: You’ve got a nice variety of Duskblade spells, and I approve of your selection of Dimension Hop as your sole 2nd level spell. Although you have a very noticeable lack of dependable stealth (until you hit 17th level) and no Darkstalker, you can generate Darkness for a while. Unfortunately, your final feat choice is illegal, as you can’t take Mountain Tombstone Strike as a martial study without a significant investment in Initiator classes or Epic play, as it requires an IL of 17, not 9, but you don’t lose much here (see elegance, however). Undo Resistance is a very nice find – I may very well have to buy the FC2 instead of borrowing my friend’s all the time. 3.75

    Elegance: You forgot to add your -2 Charisma penalty in your post-racial stats. Feycraft weapons only act as if they have Weapon Finesse, not Shadow Blade, attached to them. If only, if only, the woodpecker sighed... Master Spellthief does not let you steal an SLA – you’d need more investment in Spellthief to be able to pull that off. You don’t qualify for MTS, so you can kiss your 1/encounter 2d6 Constitution damage goodbye. Besides a dip in Spellthief, your build is pretty damned smooth looking. 2.5 2.75

    UoSI: Improved Feint is good to see, as you’re one of only 3 competitors who made good use of Bluff. You find good uses for Hide/MS, and you make awesome use of SS with Undo Resistance. Shadow and Stealth help you, although you only benefit from the highest level of Shadow vision (seeing in deeper darkness effects). 4.5


    Keeliani Amaruak – 9 9.75
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    Originality: That’s... a lot of templates. I can honestly say that I did not expect that. Incarnate Construct is known cheese, though. The story amused me – inspired by Ghost Rider much? 3

    Power: Yes, you’ve got power through infinite Strength. Using non-fractional BAB gives you a BAB of only 14 as well, missing out on that 4th attack. Still, brute strength can go a long, long ways for sheer damage and power. You’re pretty damned hard to kill, as well. 4.75

    Elegance: Just... no. Aside from an incredible 6 dips, the main strength of your build comes through extreme template cheese – and not even fresh cheese. It’s mentioned in the OP that alternate rules systems from UA are not allowed, and fractional BAB certainly falls under that category. 0.25 minimum score of 1

    UoSI: I’ll admit, you get the ability to ignore concealment 7 times a day. That and the stealth/vision bonuses are all you get from Shadowblade. You don’t need the SS damage (see infinite Strength), and the vast majority of your goodies are coming from your insane template stacking. 1



    Tacgnol – 15.25 15.5
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    Originality: Shifter? Damn, that was unexpected. Pick one of my favorite races, will you? And an unusual shifter trait, as well. Colour me impressed. Dark template and Ranger were expected, but Knight is an excellent change of pace. Clever naming, by the way. 4.25

    Power: 55 foot reach at 20th level is hilariously insane, but I’m still going to have to slap you for missing Darkstalker. Blindsense usually appears in the 60ft range, unfortunately. Loving the boost that Wildhunt gives your dino, minor as it may be. Bulwark of defense becomes truly ridiculous with your (final) reach – even before the, it’s still pretty good. 4.5

    Elegance: You wrote your ability scores (post-racials) incorrectly – Shifters receive a -2 penalty to both Intelligence and Charisma, for final scores of 10 and 6 respectively. Excellent use of alignment shift to be able to take full advantage of shadowblade’s abilities. What on earth did I do here? 2.75 3

    UoSI: You use the abilities to good effect, save Bluff. Shadowblade enhances your existing abilities well, in addition to adding reach to your main schtick. 3.75



    Briggs – 16.25
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    Originality: Demon Bloodline was completely unexpected, as was Binder. But they both fit here really, really well. Short story, but simple and evocative. 4

    Power: Finally, someone uses Power Attack with the touch attacks granted by unseen weapon. You’ve clearly done your Binder research (surprisingly few people know of all the online vestiges), and it shows – even if you don’t mention it, Zcreyll arguably raises Binders to Tier 2. Again, lack of Darkstalker hurts my eyes on these stealth builds. Bloodlines sneakily give you extra uses for Unseen Weapon, as well as a bigger bonus (well, +1.5, which is a +1) to Shadows and Stealth. Tenebrous TU abuse is arguable, but since it’s only to power the devotion, and you’re losing out on class levels because of your (tasteful!) bloodline usage, I’d probably let it fly. Far Shadow’d whirlwind amuses me to no end. 4.5

    Elegance: I never thought that I would say this, but you’ve managed to use a bloodline... tastefully. Binder straight into Shadowblade, interspersed with your racial levels, is smooth as silk. You easily qualify for everything, including your three bloodline level (not late), so I can’t dock you at all here. 3

    UoSI: You use them all. With Binder, you get the ridiculous versatility of choosing from the entire list, so if you want to use your Bluff, combine your 18 ranks with Naberious. It would have been perfect if you could have gotten access to Marchiosas, but sacrifices have to be made. SS helps with your damage, and you make good usage of the stealth skills required by Shadowblade. You even have a nod to the Special Requirement in your fluff. Near-perfect. 4.75



    Ynolar Darkheart – 14.25
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    Originality: Another evil fae (well, fae-gnome, in this case). I have to say, I’ve always thought that the Shadow Cloak Knight sub levels were pretty cool, but i never expected to see them here, of all places. Whisper Gnome was expected, but Unseelie Fae was most certainly not. Evil (killer) gnomes have been done to death in ICO, however, so no points there. 3.75

    Power: You seem to have a fairly substantial investment in items (+11 to your major scores). Your power actually suffers from lack of these items/investments, ad items are generally considered more of an add-on (at least, to me). ICO is about characters, not about what you can buy, because anybody could buy the exact same things. You’ve got some quite nice debuffing for adjacent enemies however, and that’s a pretty impressive Hide check (+43 naked, if my calculations are correct, so with your selected items, it should actually be +58*). You also hit that beautiful +16 BAB. I’d have an easier time judging your versatility if you’d finished off your manoeuvres known section, so I can only guess at what you may have had. 3.5

    Elegance: Shadow Cloak Knights aim to exterminate goblinoids, kobolds, and other evil humanoids. It directly contradicts your class levels (Paladin of Tyranny), so you’re going to have to suffer a hit here. I have to admit, you’re one of the few that didn’t leave the SI to the last part of the build, and I actually like that. Makes it more realistic that the final levels of the SI are going to see play. Paladin, Shadowblade, then tacking Swordsage onto the ending feels smooth, and you benefit from the increased IL due to taking it so late, although it takes you a full round to refresh any manoeuvre to due to the inferior swordsage recovery mechanic (and lack of Adaptive Style). 3.25

    UoSI: You make good use of all of the class abilities, and max out the prerequisite skills except for Bluff. You stack Hide modifiers like there’s no tomorrow, including the class ability that adds it, and have a reliable method of triggering SS. A section on how you intend to use each of the prestige class’s abilities would make it easier to see how each ability is important here. 3.75

    Say, where did the idea for evil gnomes come about? Was it earlier editions? I assumed that most people didn’t know of the history, but I might be wrong.

    *23 ranks+4 racial+4 size+5 circumstance (Shadow and Stealth class ability)+7 Dexterity= +43
    Toss on an addition +5 (Increased Dexterity)+10 competence (Improved Shadow) for a grand total of +58




    Nightman – 13.75
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    Originality: No matter how glad I am to see an Umbral Disciple, fact remains that I very much expected to see it. Monk however, was a surprise, especially with all those substitution levels (with none of them conflicting – nice), though it might have been nice to pick up the first Skarn sub level as well, for flavour reasons. Your fluff, however, seems to have little to nothing to do with your build (lack of Sleight of Hand, and what’s that about the cat hair?). 3.25

    Power: Stealth builds with a distinct lack of Darkstalker make Kuulvheysoon sad. Ignoring that, +5d6 SS isn’t too bad, especially with your plethora of ways to activate the damned thing. Shape Soulmeld isn’t technically an [Incarnum] feat, and doesn’t add a point of essentia (I’m assuming that’s why you get +2 essentia at ECL 9). 3

    Elegance: Monk 7/UD 3/SB 10. Clean, direct and simple. One might question the elegance of all those sub levels, but monks need all the help they can get. One thing that I am going to hit you for, however, is the contradicting fluff of Carmendine Monk and Dark Moon Disciple. Carmendine Monk requires membership in the Zealots of the Written Word, an organisation of Deneiran monks, while Dark Moon Disciples must worship Shar. 2.75

    UoSI: The stealth abilities granted by Dark Moon Disciple and Umbral Disciple stack nicely with the Shadowblade class feature of SS, and help you get off damage that you otherwise have t rouble dealing. You max out all the required skills, and you actually make use of feinting (something that I was quite happy to see, even if it is a sub-par option). You need the prestige class to enhance your other abilities, and your other abilities need Shadowblade to deal effective damage. 4.75



    I blitz'd these, as I said (judging finished in about... 4 hours?), so I'm expecting people to tell me I missed things.

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In the Playground XLII

    Two in a row! Thanks, Kuulvheysoon.

    Regarding Keeliani Amaruak:

    Unless I'm mis-remembering a point where I reversed myself on this - in which case, feel free to point it out - the minimum score (under my tenure) in a category for a legal build is 1.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV. Play as me!


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