Spells that should(n't) be eligible for Permanency

[Felandria]

Which spells do you think should be eligible for Permanency that aren't?

Or which ones that are should not?

Personally, I think if Enlarge Person is eligible, then Righteous Might should be, too.

On the other hand, Telepathic Bond, not so much, why would I want anyone to be able to hear my thoughts forever?

[ArcturusV]

I always thought Tongues was a silly one to be Permanency enabled. You almost never run into anything that doesn't speak common/undercommon anyway.

I felt it was weird that Magic Fang was Permanency-able, but not Magic Weapon. I know the reason why is because that would supposedly negate the need for any "Craft Magic Weapons" feat after all. But it's simple. And I'd still need that feat if I wanted to make my Keen Shocking Flaming Holy +5 Weapon or the like after all.

Just seems weird that if there's an Unarmed Fighter in the party I can just Magic Fang and Permanent it on him for an unending +X. But I need to waste a feat to be able to do that for an archer's bow.

[Lupus753]

I don't think that Enlarge Person should be eligible. It sounds incredibly exploitable, in regards to some physical builds. I'm mostly thinking about the Hulking Hurler, whose user could get an ally Sorcerer to cast Enlarge Person with Permanency to be eligible for the class.

Of course, this probably depends on what game we're talking about (I'm assuming DnD 3.X).

[Jay R]

I always thought Tongues was a silly one to be Permanency enabled. You almost never run into anything that doesn't speak common/undercommon anyway.

You're joking. You never go on political missions in other kingdoms, or sneak up the ogres who are talking to each other, or deal with people who speak to each other in their own language when they don't want you to know what they're saying?

In the games I play, Tongues is crucial. And Permanent Tongues would be an incredible asset for a thief or spy.

[Slipperychicken]

On the other hand, Telepathic Bond, not so much, why would I want anyone to be able to hear my thoughts forever?

False. Telepathic Bond allows creatures to send communications, not to hear every thought from bonded creatures. It is a controlled channel, the only thoughts the others hear are those you send.


Interplanar Telepathic Bond should also be eligible. Similarly, all the "greater" versions of the spells listed in the Permanency table. The rest of the wall spells too. You really get the feeling the designers just sort of forgot about Permanency after the initial release.

Magnificent Mansion and Rope Trick ought to be eligible too. Who wouldn't want a magic hidey-hole?

Gate, for obvious reasons.

Greater Magic Weapon. Tradeoff between price and vulnerability to dispel.

[ReaderAt2046]

Permanencied Summons: Way to get a summoned monster to stick around for more than a few minutes.

[NichG]

Personally I'd rather just scrap Permanency and make individual spells with Permanent duration. I mean, we already have spells with a Permanent duration in the system, so a separate Permanency spell with a fixed spell list seems kind of silly (I guess its mostly that its fairer for Sorcerors who don't get to have that many spells).

If Permanency were a 'all spells that satisfy conditions X, Y, Z' then it'd make sense as a separate (but very broken/breakable) spell. But as is, it feels kind of redundant.

[Ravens_cry]

I don't see what that helps. Also, it hurts spontaneous casters more than it does anything.

[TuggyNE]

Permanencied Summons: Way to get a summoned monster to stick around for more than a few minutes.

... for everything else, there's the Calling subschool.

Personally I'd rather just scrap Permanency and make individual spells with Permanent duration. I mean, we already have spells with a Permanent duration in the system, so a separate Permanency spell with a fixed spell list seems kind of silly (I guess its mostly that its fairer for Sorcerors who don't get to have that many spells).

Here the psionic system of augmentation seems like it would be great. (Although oddly, 3.5 psionics doesn't actually use that; it has the nigh-useless incarnate instead.)

[NichG]

I don't see what that helps. Also, it hurts spontaneous casters more than it does anything.

Simplicity of design basically. As it stands, Permanency is just sort of a highly limited poly-spell that makes some permanent magical effects. But if you want a permanent illusion there are other spells that do it. And if you want permanent polymorphing, there's PaO. And so on. So its just kind of incoherent.

The augmentation idea would both solve the incoherence and make it not hurt spontaneous casters.

[Jay R]

At least in 2E, the crucial fact is that you can only have one Permanent spell on a character. This is not true of spells that are inherently Permanent.

So changing it to allow Permanent versions of other spells changes the rules, and removes a game-balancing feature.

[TuggyNE]

At least in 2E, the crucial fact is that you can only have one Permanent spell on a character. This is not true of spells that are inherently Permanent.

So changing it to allow Permanent versions of other spells changes the rules, and removes a game-balancing feature.

It would appear, though, that that particular bit of game balance has long since been abandoned anyway. But thanks for the note on history; I wasn't aware of the original reason for that.

[navar100]

Bull's Strength, Bear's Endurance, Cat's Grace, etc. Yeah, they should not be made permanent.

Instant Summons could be. You are always able to call for the item when you need it.

The individual Vigor spells. Powerful, but ok. You're giving someone regeneration. Maybe house rule as a result fire and acid damage cannot be healed this way, but nevertheless if the creature is killed outright it remains dead. The creature is not immortal.

[tbok1992]

I personally think Speak With Dead should be usable with Permanency because I WILL bring Murray the Skull into my campaign, damn the consequences.

[Ravens_cry]

I personally think Speak With Dead should be usable with Permanency because I WILL bring Murray the Skull into my campaign, damn the consequences.

Oh, Murrey. Did you know he was initially just planned for that one scene in the Curse demo?

[thethird]

Permanencied Summons: Way to get a summoned monster to stick around for more than a few minutes.

In 3.5 there is the fetch line of spells