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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Heal skill is broken... almost useless. Time to fix it (to the player's dismay)

    For those with half health or lower (bloodied), begin losing one hit point each round, until you receive a successful heal check to stop all that bleeding.

    If you attempt to perform a full round action, or a movement and standard action, you instead lose 1 hit point per level.

    (you're gonna bleed out faster)

    Special: perhaps those in a rage do not begin suffering hp lose until they reach the end of the rage.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-02-09 at 01:02 PM.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    im thinking this should apply to all creatures with a con score...
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    This is relevent to my interests.

    I think that's a wonderful fix. Makes the skill needed (which it never has been). I also propose my fix for magical healing that is instituted in my DM's campaigns.

    When you are above 50% hp, magical healing works normal. When you are below that mark, every 3 points of healing only restores 1 hit point. When you are below 25% the ratio is 5 to 1. This represents healing magics having to work harder to heal more grevious wounds. Thought that might be something you would be interested in and was on topic.

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    This is interesting. It isn't as much a Heal fix as it is a combat alteration which makes Heal more necessary. Not that there is anything wrong with that.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    its enough so that hiring two or three healers for each adventure might be a large boon.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deviston View Post
    When you are above 50% hp, magical healing works normal. When you are below that mark, every 3 points of healing only restores 1 hit point. When you are below 25% the ratio is 5 to 1. This represents healing magics having to work harder to heal more grevious wounds. Thought that might be something you would be interested in and was on topic.
    hmm, might be too much, though...
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    The function of it is to encourage healing in combat. If you can kill the enemy but get down to let's say 30%, you are now expending more resources to heal up. However, if you're party healer (or whatever) heals a little earlier, the fights lasts a few rounds longer possibly making it more interesting and lethal for other members.

    It also makes them WANT to heal after a fight, get the good ratio in just in case. This means more per days expended and the next fight (if it even comes at all) a little more dangerous (fewer per days left).

    It also makes a fight much more lethal than "oh im at 7 hp, whatevs, cleric get over here and patch this up chop chop". You could even say "with a successful heal check, the ratio for healing below 50% is 2:1 for the next healing spell; 4:1 below 25%. For every 20 points you beat the dc, the ratio improves" or something like that, to once again make heal more useful.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deviston View Post
    The function of it is to encourage healing in combat. If you can kill the enemy but get down to let's say 30%, you are now expending more resources to heal up. However, if you're party healer (or whatever) heals a little earlier, the fights lasts a few rounds longer possibly making it more interesting and lethal for other members.

    It also makes them WANT to heal after a fight, get the good ratio in just in case. This means more per days expended and the next fight (if it even comes at all) a little more dangerous (fewer per days left).

    It also makes a fight much more lethal than "oh im at 7 hp, whatevs, cleric get over here and patch this up chop chop". You could even say "with a successful heal check, the ratio for healing below 50% is 2:1 for the next healing spell; 4:1 below 25%. For every 20 points you beat the dc, the ratio improves" or something like that, to once again make heal more useful.
    its a lot to remember, though. its almost too much to bother with, imo (though i really do like how it scales based on the wounds)

    imagine the wounds on a troll's rend...
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-02-09 at 01:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Luckily you don't have to remember anything, just write it down like every other rule.

    As for how it scales on the wound, takes more magical effort to mend a nearly lopped of leg than just the outer quarter inch of the whole thing. Whatever the excuse, it makes the game a lot more... difficult. Less of a walk in the park.

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    agreed, lol
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    As an after thought, I realize it puts the difficulty of the game into the PLAYER'S hands. Should the player seek difficulty, he waits to heal, should he want to ensure survival, heals sooner rather than later. I wonder how long it will take the player to notice this...

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by Deviston View Post
    As an after thought, I realize it puts the difficulty of the game into the PLAYER'S hands. Should the player seek difficulty, he waits to heal, should he want to ensure survival, heals sooner rather than later. I wonder how long it will take the player to notice this...
    trial and rerolling character
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Be warned that rules like these tend to have the most effect on the mundane melee types, AKA the archetype most disliked by the rules.

    If you want to make the Heal skill more relevant, increase the amount you can do with it, rather than introducing unnecessary penalties. Let it recover more hit points. Let it remove conditions. Heck, make the skill required somehow for magical healing-- perhaps your CL with healing spells is based on your ranks in the skill. But let's not make life harder for the classes 3.5 already hates the most.

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Be warned that rules like these tend to have the most effect on the mundane melee types, AKA the archetype most disliked by the rules.

    If you want to make the Heal skill more relevant, increase the amount you can do with it, rather than introducing unnecessary penalties. Let it recover more hit points. Let it remove conditions. Heck, make the skill required somehow for magical healing-- perhaps your CL with healing spells is based on your ranks in the skill. But let's not make life harder for the classes 3.5 already hates the most.
    meh, melee types are meat shields, thats the whole point.

    I do agree, the heal skill should be able to heal way more hit points.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    NOOOOOO!! Be warned! Ye be stepping into the country known as "Power Creep"! Letting it heal actual hit points is no bueno. However, setting magical healing to be tied to the Heal skill does sound nice.

    I've always been a fan of "Temporary Healing" via Heal skill. Say you make a healing check of 25, old boy is temporarily healed of 10 hp. If you take no damage before you get the natural healing from sleep, those temps turn to real haled hp. Should old boy take 3 points of real damage before sleeping, they take their 3 of course, and double that (up to total temp healed points) in temp healed points aka 6.
    Last edited by Deviston; 2013-02-09 at 02:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    meh, melee types are meat shields, thats the whole point.
    If we accept this premise, your fix for a minor aspect of the game (one crappy skill) is causing problems for a large portion of the game (all melee types). That's suboptimal.

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    If we accept this premise, your fix for a minor aspect of the game (one crappy skill) is causing problems for a large portion of the game (all melee types). That's suboptimal.
    i disagree, its more realistic. (i realize the irony of what i just said)

    and i agree with:

    "I've always been a fan of "Temporary Healing" via Heal skill. Say you make a healing check of 25, old boy is temporarily healed of 10 hp. If you take no damage before you get the natural healing from sleep, those temps turn to real healed hp."
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    i disagree, its more realistic. (i realize the irony of what i just said)
    And all together now, what's the biggest obstacle that mundane classes have to deal with when competing against magic uses?

    It's not realistic.

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    And all together now, what's the biggest obstacle that mundane classes have to deal with when competing against magic uses?

    It's not realistic.
    yup, its the name of the game, and you ARE mundane... them's the breaks...

    now if you were a fighter with ranks in UMD, you wouldnt suck so bad. But thats a problem with the fighter, they are drastically underpowered.
    Last edited by LordErebus12; 2013-02-09 at 03:47 PM.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    New Feat:

    Ain't got no time to bleed
    Prerequisite: Con 13
    Benefit: You automatically stop bleeding after 1 round.

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordErebus12 View Post
    yup, its the name of the game, and you ARE mundane... them's the breaks...

    now if you were a fighter with ranks in UMD, you wouldnt suck so bad. But thats a problem with the fighter, they are drastically underpowered.
    The idea is usually to try and make the bad parts better, not worse. But whatever floats your boat. (Also, this type of system is a problem for anyone getting hit a lot, regardless of how good or bad their class is)
    Last edited by Grod_The_Giant; 2013-02-09 at 04:03 PM.

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    Giants and Graveyards: My collected 3.5 class fixes and more.

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yora View Post
    New Feat:

    Ain't got no time to bleed
    Prerequisite: Con 13
    Benefit: You automatically stop bleeding after 1 round.

    YES!!! SWEET! i knew all those feats came in handy for something!
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    This will cause no end of TPKs among first level characters. Seriously, when is a first level character not below half HP at the end of the day? Unless you are assuming one character per party member is spending an action to fix them.

    The first level fighter? Has to have some one standing behind him patching him up... or he dies. Seriously, 10+2-4 HP?

    This isn't a heal skill fix. This is a combat variant that screws everyone. Healers now have to spend every action spaming Heal checks, as heal spells arn't going to be worth it in combat until heal comes along.

    My suggestion? Let the heal spell heal 2xrank as a standard action once per 4 rounds, and add checks to fix other aliments. If you want resource managment to be a thing, make it require a healers kit. Make cure X wounds allow to heal without a kit, and add xd8 to the amount healed.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    OR! Or, and hear me out on this bob, it would cause players to play smarter rather than "ok so I'm going to... attack it". Maybe they will use defensive combat, or attempt to find an alternate means to defeat the encounter. The blade guy may be force to take up his bow/xbow/throwing ax or more. Long story short, when a sword in the gut is... well, dangerous, perhaps the player will play intelligently and learn a thing or two.

    A fighter is a combat specialist, a trained warrior who can use any means nearby to ensure the extension of their life. A fighter isn't a barbarian after all.

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Im inclined to agree with Deviston on this one.

    I always hated having low hp at low levels, especially if its the fighter.

    Fighter Fix
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    So what about the barbarian? Or the knight? or the Duskblade? Or the Warblade? Or the Crusader? These are getting stuck with a massive debuff if they do their job and stab nasties in the face with a sword. Yes they will take measures to mitigate hits, but they will still get hit. Unless you start making all fighters invincible, they will be down to half HP in a balanced fight unless a cleric spam heals them. So he pulls out his bow... and the oponent reaches him and stabs him anyway? Or are we talking about the exciting fights as the party kites all their oponents?
    When you know the variant means that a warblade is going to exclusively use a bow to avoid getting attacked... you are doing it wrong.

    Once again, this isn't a heal fix. Heal is still a bad skill, as having it means you will be spending your action more often then not stopping bleeding. So you have to just hire some experts to fix you up... mid combat. Or die screaming, more often then not. So, you are left with the choices of kite everything, or have a squad of docters following you around! That won't ruin the atmosphere of a dungeon at all!

    Really, this fix ain't helping. It needs a proper fix, or to be left to rot.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    So what about the barbarian? Or the knight? or the Duskblade? Or the Warblade? Or the Crusader? These are getting stuck with a massive debuff if they do their job and stab nasties in the face with a sword. Yes they will take measures to mitigate hits, but they will still get hit. Unless you start making all fighters invincible, they will be down to half HP in a balanced fight unless a cleric spam heals them. So he pulls out his bow... and the oponent reaches him and stabs him anyway? Or are we talking about the exciting fights as the party kites all their oponents?
    When you know the variant means that a warblade is going to exclusively use a bow to avoid getting attacked... you are doing it wrong.

    Once again, this isn't a heal fix. Heal is still a bad skill, as having it means you will be spending your action more often then not stopping bleeding. So you have to just hire some experts to fix you up... mid combat. Or die screaming, more often then not. So, you are left with the choices of kite everything, or have a squad of docters following you around! That won't ruin the atmosphere of a dungeon at all!

    Really, this fix ain't helping. It needs a proper fix, or to be left to rot.
    Bob, chill, you made your point. but if you apply the rule (with Yora's feat), its only a minor obstacle, making players think smarter, avoiding more nasty enemies, unless properly supplied.

    As always, this is a DM's decision to run with it, and all players should be in agreement before such a rule is added. its not for everyone, but it adds a fundamental rule to it. wounds bleed and are dangerous if left alone.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    it would help the crusader, honestly... with the furious counterstrike.
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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    No, it just means his already limited HP is now shrinking faster then before.

    My point was this is broken... and that got shrugged off with a "they can just avoid combat!" Which, as I endeavored to point out with the quoted post, was poor reasoning.

    And Yoras feat is, tautologically a feat. those tend to be limited for anything that isn't a fighter till levels high enough to shrug off the bleed damage. So now it is a feat tax. Yay?
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    FreakyCheeseMan's Avatar

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    Default Re: Bro, you're bleeding... (Heal Skill Fix)

    Hrrm.

    So, the heal skill as an option for healing is pretty weak, but... it's just a skill, it's not like there aren't plenty of underpowered skills. Comparing it to magical healing is a little bit like comparing Acrobatics with a flight spell.

    I'd go with a lazy fix for the healing skill itself (double whatever it does now), but also say that "Healing" is basically the same as "Knowledge: Medicine." So, it's also useful for forensics, identifying diseases, poisons, etc.

    If you liked, you could go even farther- "Knowledge: Medicine" is a lot like "Knowledge:Anatomy of 90% of the Things We're Currently Stabbing". So, I could see it working for things like Knowledge Devotion, etc.

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