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    Question an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    So what would an Adamantine&Mithril alloy look like? weight? hardness? functionality?

    i want to use it as the material component for an artifact in a campaign i'm running but i can't find any info on it. could anybody help me out here?
    "A Barbarian attacks with his Axe. A Warlord attacks with his Barbarian."




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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Alloys are usually primarily one substance, impregnated with another. Mithral alloyed with Adamantine would be marginally harder than non-alloyed Mithral. Adamantine alloyed with Mithral would be marginally lighter and softer.

    Except to an exceptional blacksmith, there would be no visible difference between the alloy and its main component.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Since both are non-existent metals or very fantastic and not very well defined qualities, their alloy will obviously follow the same rules...

    So - whatever suits you, I guess.
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    I'd say a bit harder than steel though a bit lighter, though not as light as Mithril, bypassing less hardness than adamantine, say hardness up to 10, and by passing both Silver and Adamantine DR. This is how I would play it based in the representation in 3.X D&D and using its rules.
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Why bypass silver, when pure mithril doesn't?
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Why bypass silver, when pure mithril doesn't?
    Oops, my bad. In Pathfinder it does.
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Possibly as a holdover from Tolkien with the "truesilver" nickname for it.
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    Possibly as a holdover from Tolkien with the "truesilver" nickname for it.
    That's probably where the inspiration comes from, but it also makes it more useful for weapons. Otherwise, unless you are playing a low, low strength melee character, where even the weight of your weapons matters, it rarely is worth it.
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    I'd give it 1 DR as a medium armor and 2 DR as a heavy armor. Weight slightly less than steel. Harder than Mithral. +1 Dex Mod. -1 ACP. Does not lower armor to the next step.
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Mithantine
    A masterful blend of Adamantine and Mithril, only the most capable smiths can create and work such a metal. First known amongst the ancient Netheril empire, the secrets of its creation were by and large lost in its fall, much like almost all of its advanced magical knowledge. However rumors persist that the meticulous Theg may have recorded the means to create this valuable alloy.
    Mithantine appears to be a deep grey color with faint but vibrant silver streaks throughout it in seemingly random patterns, most often swirls. It is lighter and stronger than steel and carries the benefits of both its constituent parts, with the additional benefit if withstanding the test of time and use. Mithantine equipment is always of masterwork quality or better.

    - Medium armor, light shields and heavy shields made of Mithantine gains DR 1/-, increases max Dex by 1, reduces acp by 1 and reduces ASF by 5%.
    - Heavy armor and tower shields made of Mithantine gains DR 2/-, increases max dex by 1, reduce acp by 1 and reduce ASF by 5%.
    - Weapons made of Mithantine bypass up to 15 points of hardness and bypasses DR/adamantine (and DR/Silver if you're playing 3.P).

    Mithantine is 20% lighter than steel and has hardness 15 with 30 HP/inch, and is immune to rusting and rust effects such as a Rust Monster's touch or the Rusting Grasp spell. Weapons and armor have 25% more HP than their steel counterparts.

    Costs (masterwork included):
    Medium Armor: +15,000 gp
    Heavy Armor or tower shield: +25,000 gp
    Weapon: +5,000 gp
    Ammunition: +100 gp/missile
    Other: +1,000 gp/lb

    Edit: Costs.
    Edit: Color and history
    Last edited by Kane0; 2013-02-20 at 04:19 PM.

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    Thumbs up Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Mithantine
    A masterful blend of Adamantine and Mithril, only the most capable smiths can create and work such a metal. It is lighter and stronger than steel and carries the benefits of both its constituent parts. Mithantine equipment is always of masterwork quality or better.

    - Medium armor, light shields and heavy shields made of Mithantine gains DR 1/-, increases max Dex by 1, reduces acp by 1 and reduces ASF by 5%.
    - Heavy armor and tower shields made of Mithantine gains DR 2/-, increases max dex by 1, reduce acp by 1 and reduce ASF by 5%.
    - Weapons made of Mithantine bypass up to 15 points of hardness and bypasses DR/adamantine (and DR/Silver if you're playing 3.P).

    Mithantine is 20% lighter than steel and has hardness 15 with 30 HP/inch. Weapons and armor have 25% more HP than their steel counterparts.

    Costs (masterwork included):
    Medium Armor: +15,000 gp
    Heavy Armor or tower shield: +25,000 gp
    Weapon: +5,000 gp
    Ammunition: +100 gp/missile
    Other: +1,000 gp/lb

    If you want a unique ability, make it immune to rust or something.

    Edit: Costs.
    Looking Fine! So what about colouration? I'm thinking a smoky gray. Also, gonna add the immunity to rust thing.

    What about bumping hardness to 17? that'd be about average, but i'll leave that decision up to you guys.

    So after colouration gets done, how about an origin story? A birth place for the metal? I'm using FR if that helps.
    "A Barbarian attacks with his Axe. A Warlord attacks with his Barbarian."




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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by killer_monk View Post
    So after colouration gets done, how about an origin story? A birth place for the metal? I'm using FR if that helps.
    Mage-smiths from somewhere... possibly Netheril or some other long-lost civilization of magic from Before (Before what? Whichever Realms-shattering event you choose!). Successfully alloying two mythic metals should require the greatest metallurgists of all time.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Just use Glassteel instead. It's as light as mithral and as strong as adamantine.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2013-02-20 at 03:28 PM.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    D&D (3.5e!) MATERIALS SCIENCE to Compared to Real life items!

    Bronze = Bronze = Hardness 9, 20 hp/inch

    Iron/Steel = Decent Steel = Hardness 10, HP/Inch: 30, Weight Iron

    Wood = Wood = Hardness 5, 10 hp/inch

    Darkwood = better than the strongest light woods, some crazy sci fi wood = hardness 5, 10 hp/inch, 50% weight of wood

    Densewood (Eberron CS) = The heaviest and most durable teaks, maybe = hardness 8, 20 hp/inch, 200% weight of wood

    Bronzewood (EbCS) or Coldwood (Dragon Magazine 357) = some crazy sci fi wood = Hardness 10, 20 hp/inch, 90% weight of iron/steel

    Duskwood (Magic of Faerun) = some crazy sci fi wood = hardness 10, 30 hp/inch, 50% weight of iron/steel

    Baatorian Greensteel (Fiendish Codex II) = Our best high quality high carbon steel (ie, the most durable metals we can make) = hardness 12, 30 hp/inch

    Mithral = some super hard, super light, sci fi material = hardness 15, 30 hp/inch, 50% weight of iron/steel

    Adamantine = some super durable sci fi material = hardness 20, 40 hp/inch

    Glassteel (Champions of Valor) = the best qualities of mithral and adamantine, together = Hardness 20, 40 hp/inch, 50% weight of iron/steel


    Also, Titanium is LESS DURABLE than the equivalent volume of steel (they make crappy swords, just like aluminum; good for training, not good for kililng), so I would stat it out as something like...

    Titanium: Hardness 9/ 20 hp per inch, 50% weight of steel
    and aluminum would be even worse.. maybe hardness 8 or so...

    D&D materials science is ahead of our own! You don't NEED to make an Adamantine and Mithral alloy! What you need is to figure out how to get very large amount of the materials they can already make. You could make skyscrapers higher than our highest with Mithral or Glassteel. Hell, you could make a space elevator (which we are talking about making once we get carbon nanotubes or whatever) with Mithral!
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2013-02-20 at 03:56 PM.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    I don't think Glassteel comes with Adamantine's ability to "ignore hardness less than 20" though- that's probably the best bit of it.

    Obdurium from Stronghold Builder's Guide is even harder than Adamantine.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2013-02-20 at 03:50 PM.
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I don't think Glassteel comes with Adamantine's ability to "ignore hardness less than 20" though- that's probably the best bit of it.

    Obdurium from Stronghold Builder's Guide is even harder than Adamantine.
    Yea, I left a few out... and glassteel doesn't have that bit, true. But Mithral doesn't have Greensteel's capability of holding an edge as well either, for some reason.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    I don't think Glassteel comes with Adamantine's ability to "ignore hardness less than 20" though- that's probably the best bit of it.
    .
    It isn't for nothing I call an Adamantine Greataxe a 'Barbarian Lockpick'.
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by killer_monk View Post
    Looking Fine! So what about colouration? I'm thinking a smoky gray. Also, gonna add the immunity to rust thing.

    What about bumping hardness to 17? that'd be about average, but i'll leave that decision up to you guys.

    So after colouration gets done, how about an origin story? A birth place for the metal? I'm using FR if that helps.
    Thankyou

    Done and done, but kept the hardness at 15. Take a look and tell me what you think.

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    Thumbs up Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kane0 View Post
    Thankyou

    Done and done, but kept the hardness at 15. Take a look and tell me what you think.
    Good job! Loving everybody's input here. Now for the usage of this great new material, I'd like to display the artifact I'll be using it on:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Armor of the Entwined Souls (+5)

    +5 mithril&adamantine (Mithrantine) alloyed modified half splint armor. It is a simple quilted armor which is reinforced by beautiful polished smoky-gray metal bands which seem to outline the wearers skeleton. The armor is lighter than any would expect, practically being weightless. It has a simple black hood which can be pulled over the users head to conceal their identity. It's quilted surcoat portion extends past the knee in the back and is slightly above the knee in the front. It's banded pauldrons are similar to Japanese "Sode". It also has thigh plates similar to Japanese "Haidate" on the inside layer of the surcoat. It's third peculiar feature is that is has armor that runs the length of the users spine, so the user cannot be horizontally cut in half with anything less than a Vorpal or adamantine weapon, and the user still gets a dexterity save. It comes with shin guards and knee guards that are hidden underneath the black-leather pants. It's also has hefty fluted gauntlets that have an elbow guard. The left hand is twisted and warped a deep crimson, it is full fluted plate but has cracks and sharp edges as it twists all the way up the arm's length.(the cracks glow with black fire that is tinted by a white outline while the armor's spirit ability is being used. You can also summon a weapon your attuned to into your left hand and move or attack as part of the same action. This does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity.)

    It is almost as light as mithril, which puts it under the Light Armor category.it also has the same hardness as mithril and half the resistances of adamantine.

    It is also enchanted with a legendary enchantment:

    Whenever you enter battle you may project your spirit energy as a larger version of your spirit behind you. You make double the normal physical attacks, but only roll the second if you missed the first. You may only attack the same person that you previously attacked with this, and cannot attack a different person with your second hit. If the second attack hits it's an auto-critical. Your weapons enchantment effects don't apply to the critical, only the physical damage. So vorpal weapons don't get free kills.

    The armors AC is modified mithril chain:

    14 + dexterity modifier + 5

    This armor cannot be sundered or broken by anything short of a vorpal weapon or an adamantine weapon and even then the user gets a save, and it also provides a DR of 2. If sundered or broken the user need only meditate on fixing it for 1 uninterrupted hour to do so, though it cannot be mended by any other means. It cannot be rusted by any means.

    This particular suit of armor was forged by a long since dead god. It was to be a gift to their favored heir but was stolen before it arrived. It has never seen battle but it's abilities are beyond legendary.

    It requires 2 attunement slots and whoever is coming into contact with it and hasn't attuned to it must make a DC 17 constitution saving throw or die. It's save is hourly and you must take 6 hours in peace while holding it to attune. You must save every round you wear it if wearing it while un-attuned.


    So what else would you guys add? Or does that meet all the standards set for an artifact? More or less? Mostly talking AC and DR and weight/size category.
    Last edited by killer_monk; 2013-02-20 at 04:50 PM.
    "A Barbarian attacks with his Axe. A Warlord attacks with his Barbarian."




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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Yeah, instead of the horribly complex 'extra attacks' ability, just say:

    "This armor allows you to re-roll all missed attacks once, with the accompanying visual effect of a spirit-image of yourself hovering behind you and striking in tandem."

    It's third peculiar feature is that is has armor that runs the length of the users spine, so the user cannot be horizontally cut in half with anything less than a Vorpal or adamantine weapon, and the user still gets a dexterity save
    What is this supposed to do? There are no effects in the game that can cut a person in half, or even cut off body parts except for Vorpal weapons.


    I don't know what an Attunement slot is, so I don't know how bad it taking up 2 slots is. Either way, the rules for attuning are confusing, since apparently you need to spend 6 hours making Constititution checks (Fortitude saves?) every round or die, since you have to hold it while meditating and it forces saves when held if you're not attuned.


    I'd say it's not a very interesting artifact primarily because it's...just a suit of armor. Artifacts aren't arti-facty because of the plusses they give you, they have story and history attached - where they came from, why they were created, how they're destroyed.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2013-02-20 at 06:11 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Looks kinda weak. Attunement? Bleck.

    Sell it and commission a +1 Dwarvencraft Mithral Chain Shirt with Death Ward, Ghost Ward, Blurring, Light Fortification, Blueshine, Aporter, Courage Heraldic Crest, Called, Floating, Healing, Mindarmor, Landing, Shadow, Silent Moves, Daylight, etc. and an integrated Wondrous Item of Magic Vestment to get it up to +5 when you need it.

    http://brilliantgameologists.com/boa...hp?topic=12837

    Also remember, artifacts aren't artifacts because they are POWERFUL or are even good choices for gear -- they are artifacts because they break the rules of how magic items are supposed to work, and what they are supposed to be able to do!
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2013-02-20 at 06:12 PM.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Also that. It's a +5 Mithril Chain Shirt that gives Quick Draw as a bonus feat and lets you re-roll all missed attacks (with auto-crits-that-aren't-crits-but-they-kind-of-are). Not just a suit of armor, but a relatively weak suit of armor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    But no one needs Quick Draw! It's a useless feat once you get +1 BAB, except for niche builds...??


    Bleck! Custom gear is generally better than non-custom gear, yaknow??

    And if you want to give someone USEFUL magical abilities, look at this thread as well:

    http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187851

    And especially pay attention to what is done in the armor slot...
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2013-02-20 at 06:31 PM.

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    Thumbs up Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Yeah, instead of the horribly complex 'extra attacks' ability, just say:

    "This armor allows you to re-roll all missed attacks once, with the accompanying visual effect of a spirit-image of yourself hovering behind you and striking in tandem."


    What is this supposed to do? There are no effects in the game that can cut a person in half, or even cut off body parts except for Vorpal weapons.


    I don't know what an Attunement slot is, so I don't know how bad it taking up 2 slots is. Either way, the rules for attuning are confusing, since apparently you need to spend 6 hours making Constititution checks (Fortitude saves?) every round or die, since you have to hold it while meditating and it forces saves when held if you're not attuned.


    I'd say it's not a very interesting artifact primarily because it's...just a suit of armor. Artifacts aren't arti-facty because of the plusses they give you, they have story and history attached - where they came from, why they were created, how they're destroyed.
    Attunement is a D&D Next thing. It's based on Intelligence Modifier.

    The super high save requires a minimum of 24 in constitution, with this you need only "take 10".

    I'll change the "kinda Auto-crit" to regular auto crit on request. I'll also boost AC and DR as well.

    The Amoured Spine makes sure that your body stays intact even after death. Makes it easier on your allies. And it gives you a save vs vorpal, which isn't normally there.

    The "quick draw" feat doesn't exist in Next, so it's a nice boost.

    Technically it's half-banded armor that's considered light. None of my PCs can use heavy due to class restrictions.

    And if anybody wants to throw up some ideas for the item, that'd be great.

    Now that I think of it, how about the ability to regenerate lost limbs while wearing the armor? Anybody else?
    "A Barbarian attacks with his Axe. A Warlord attacks with his Barbarian."




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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Not necessarily. Without it, you still need to spend at least a move action to draw a weapon, it's just that +1 BAB lets you take a normal move as part of that same action. If you want to draw a weapon and full attack in the same turn without extra actions, you need Quick Draw.

    EDIT: Oh, this is for D&D Next? You should probably specify that, then.
    Last edited by The Glyphstone; 2013-02-20 at 06:36 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Red Fel, on quest rewards View Post
    "Is a stack of ten pancakes too many pancakes to give to the party, even if most of them fell on the floor and one or two were stepped on? I wanted to give my party pancakes as a reward but I'm unsure if it's too much. The pancakes are also laced with blowfish poison so the party would have to get an antitoxin before they could eat the ones which weren't pulverized by shoes."

    I don't think anyone would want those pancakes even if you paid them to eat them.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Argh! D&D Next?? WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO??
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2013-02-20 at 06:44 PM.

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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Not necessarily. Without it, you still need to spend at least a move action to draw a weapon, it's just that +1 BAB lets you take a normal move as part of that same action. If you want to draw a weapon and full attack in the same turn without extra actions, you need Quick Draw.

    EDIT: Oh, this is for D&D Next? You should probably specify that, then.
    I'd mention Next if it wasn't for the fact that people run in terror at the very sound of it. I've had problematic past threads about Next simply because nobody likes it. Makes it very difficult to get help/opinions on even simple things.

    And that's ignoring the fact that they always devolve into hate-threads...
    Last edited by killer_monk; 2013-02-20 at 06:50 PM.
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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Quote Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx View Post
    Argh! D&D Next?? WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY SO??
    I'm using 3.5's materials tables, so it didn't matter.
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    Post Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    Well, this is a prime example of why to never mention Next. Guess that means I Next-Nuked this thread too.

    Thanks to Kane0 for all the wonderful help and support! Thanks to The Glyphstone and Gavinfoxx for what help you provided for the artifact. Made quite a few changes to it after I read the thread posted by Gavinfoxx. Not gonna bother reposting it's stats cause I'm pretty sure this thread is dead due to Next's involvement.

    Have a nice day everybody! And if anybody else has something to say then just post it.
    "A Barbarian attacks with his Axe. A Warlord attacks with his Barbarian."




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    Default Re: an Adamantine&Mithril alloy

    That thread? All the places I linked to? Are 3.5e specific...

    I've no clue what those threads would look like for Next... it'd be relevant about what sorts of stats they give for the monsters, I suppose. And what abilities do and don't exist in the game system.

    But Honestly?

    Legend has taken the place of D&D Next as 'the next awesome thing that feels like D&D that I want to play', for me.
    Last edited by Gavinfoxx; 2013-02-20 at 08:12 PM.

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