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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Craziest Idea Mafia

    Current Phase: END

    The Town and the Survivor have won the game!

    Spoiler: Recruitment Post
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    Welcome to the Crazier Idea mafia, which is my take on the Great/Greater/Greatest idea mafia games. If you don't know how it works, read on! Changes from Crazier Idea and clarifications that weren't in the previous original post but ended up in the game are underlined.

    The Basics of Mafia

    Every player is part of one of the game's factions: usually either a member of the town (who are a large faction unaware of who are town and who are mafia) or the mafia (who are a small faction, but are aware of the other members of the mafia, can communicate with each other, and can remove one target from the game each night). The game cycles through days and nights, and each day, all of the players in the game vote between them for one player to be removed from the game. The game ends when only one faction remains, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

    In case of a tie, the player who was the first to reach at least that vote total for the last time is executed*. You may vote for No Execute, which is counted the same way as a player vote, or you may choose not to vote at all. Your latest vote that is not crossed out will be used to determine your vote.

    *For example, if a player reaches 3 votes, then their opponent reaches 3 votes, then the first player drops to 2 votes, then the first player goes back up to 3 votes, the second player is executed because the last time the first player reached 3 votes is later than the last time the second player did. However, if the first player went up to 4 instead of down to 2, then went back to 3, they would be executed instead.


    The Craziest Idea

    You will be dealt three cards. Each of those cards will have a power, and a faction. You must choose one of the three cards and gain that power, then choose a second card and gain that faction. For example, if you draw "Town Killing", "Mafia Investigative", and "Alien Universal Backup", you could choose Killing from the first card, mafia from the second card and discard the card saying "Alien Universal Backup."

    Note: Discarded cards, and only discarded cards, are public. All players will get information like this:

    "Unavenger discarded Alien Universal Backup".

    If by some miracle one faction starts with control of the game (which, in practice, means that the entire play group picked town or up to one survivor), all cards are reshuffled and picks start again. No cards are revealed. This is very rare.

    Factions

    If there are fewer than 10 players, there will be two factions, the town and the mafia. If there are 10 or more players, alien cards will be added to the deck. If there are 14 or more players, werewolf cards will be added to the deck. If there are 18 or more players, cultist cards will be added to the deck.

    The town are your bog-standard town. You're more likely to have lots of allies as town, but you don't get any special abilities.
    The mafia and the werewolves are both ordinary mafia-style factions. Each one has factional chat. Once per night, any one member of the Mafia and any one member of the Werewolves can choose one target and kill that target.
    The aliens don't have a nightkill, but do get a factional chat. Any non-killing role is stronger on an alien than it is on any other faction.
    The cult have a factional conversion. Once per night, any one member of the cult can choose a target to use their conversion ability on. Any time the cult use their ability on a member of the town, that player joins the cult. Any time the cult use their ability on anyone else, the cult is informed of the faction (but not the role) of the target.

    Factional chats allow members of a faction with one to communicate at night, while aliens can communicate in their faction chats at any time.

    There is also one Survivor card and one Serial Killer card thrown into the mix. The survivor wins if they last to the end of the day, and the Serial Killer acts as a mafia of one. If you were dealt, but didn't pick, one of those roles, you know none are in the game! Both the Survivor and the Serial Killer automatically block all kills at night.

    The Death Flip

    To clarify how this works, because it wasn't spelled out in the opening post in previous editions, whenever a player dies, their cause of death will be spelled out, as well as their original role, and the role they died as. However, the cards that made up that role are not shown. For example, if I picked the Mafia Strongman off cards with "Town Killing" and "Mafia Investigative" on it, and I was executed, the role reveal would show:

    Unavenger died today. They were executed. Unavenger's role was Mafia Strongman.

    Someone who started as a town vigilante but was killed by the other Town Vigilante and a Mafia Spy after joining the Cult would show a result like:

    Unavenger was brutally murdered today. They were shot with a pistol and stabbed with a knife. Unavenger's role was Town Vigilante but they died as a Cult Fanatic.


    Spoiler: The unnecessarily technical version
    Show
    Each death message is made up as follows:

    [Name] [death type] [phase]. [Pronoun] [was/were] [causes of death]. [Name]'[s] role was [starting role][message tail].

    Where:

    Name is the username of the player,
    Death type is "died" if the player was killed in one way, "was brutally murdered" if they died in two ways, "was torn to pieces" if they died in three ways and "was utterly annihilated" if they died in at least four ways,
    Phase is "today" if the player died during the day, presumably because they were executed, and "tonight" if they died during the night, presumably because they weren't,
    Pronoun is the first-person pronoun the player used at the time of the player's death, to the best of my knowledge,
    Was/Were is "were" if the player uses they pronouns and "was" otherwise,
    Causes of Death is each of the causes that the player suffered in order, separated by ", " except for the last two which are separated by " and ". In order, they are shot with a pistol, beaten to death with a tactical flashlight, stabbed with a knife, set on fire, clawed to death, hacked to death with an axe, and shot with a blaster. If multiple vigilantes from one faction kill the same person, they are reported as "shot with [two/three/four/etc.] different [pistols/blasters]".
    S is "" if the name already ends with an s or "s" otherwise,
    Starting role is whatever faction and role the player started as, after solo faction member Universal Backup switches are resolved at the start of the game,
    Message tail is "" if the player hasn't changed factions or roles. Otherwise, it's " but " followed by [pronoun] followed by " died as a " followed by the role that the player was they died.


    Abilities

    The ability on your card may change depending on the faction, so they are grouped under headings here. For example, if your faction is "Town" and your role is listed as "Killing", then you gain the town's killing role, "Vigilante."

    If you are a Survivor you gain the listed town ability, and if you are a werewolf or a serial killer you gain the listed mafia ability.

    Killing

    Town or Alien Vigilante: Once per night, you can choose one target and kill that target.

    Mafia Strongman: When you deliberately perform the factional kill, it can't be blocked.

    Cult Fanatic: When you perform the factional conversion, if you target a member of the mafia, a werewolf or an alien, the target is killed.

    Investigative

    Town Seer: Once per night, you can choose one target. You learn that target's FACTION.

    Mafia or Cult Spy: Once per night, you can choose one target. You learn that target's ROLE TYPE.

    Alien Researcher: Once per night, you can choose one target. You learn that target's FACTION and ROLE.

    Protective

    Town, Mafia or Cult Doctor: Once per night, you can choose a target. You block all night kills targeting that player the same night. You cannot target yourself twice consecutively.

    Alien Protector: Once per night, you can choose a target. You block everything targeting that player the same night. You cannot target yourself twice consecutively.

    Roleblocking

    Town, Mafia or Cult Roleblocker: Once per night, you can choose a target. That player's ability is blocked tonight. If they attempt to gather information, they will receive NO RESULT.

    Alien Mindslaver: Once per night, you can choose a target. That player's ability is blocked this night. You may activate their personal ability, or their factional ability if they have no personal ability, by attempting to choose another player. If you choose a valid target for their ability, you send your target to visit the new player. They use their ability on the other target, but you, not they, get any information from that ability except the cult's warning message that they cannot convert non-town members. If you target the Strongman, their chosen kill is Strong but the kill you send them to make is not Strong. If you target the Fanatic, their conversion IS Fanatical.

    Spoiler: Every Mindslaver Interaction in the game
    Show
    Town Vigilante: The second player will be reported as shot with a pistol as though the vigilante had attacked them deliberately.
    Survivor Vigilante: The second player will be reported as beaten to death with a tactical flashlight as though the vigilante had attacked them deliberately.
    Alien Vigilante: The second player will be reported as shot with a blaster as though the vigilante had attacked them deliberately.
    Mafia Strongman: The original kill is strong, but your version of the kill is not. The second player will be reported as stabbed as though the strongman had attacked them deliberately.
    Werewolf Strongman: The original kill is strong, but your version of the kill is not. The second player will be reported as clawed to death as though the strongman had attacked them deliberately.
    Serial Killer Strongman: The original kill is strong, but your version of the kill is not. The second player will be reported as hacked to death with an axe as though the strongman had attacked them deliberately.
    Cult Fanatic: The conversion will convert players to the cult, not the aliens, if successful. If the second player is a member of a non-town faction, the cult, not you, will be told that they cannot convert members of that faction, and the dead player will be reported as set on fire as though the fanatic had attacked them deliberately.

    Any investigative: You will be told the normal information and the investigative player will be told they recieved no result.

    Any protective: The second player is protected.

    Town, Survivor, Mafia, Werewolf, Serial Killer or Cult Roleblocker: The second player is roleblocked. If you end up in a blocking circle (For a simple version, A mindslaves B to block C, while B was trying to roleblock A) then you succeed at mindslaving the target if there's an even number of players in the bloking circle and fail if there's an odd number (because for the odd-number version, there's no order you can resolve the role blocks where they actually make sense, so we just assume everyone's blocked).

    Alien Mindslaver: The second part of the ability fails because you can't pick the additional targets for it. Your target is still roleblocked.

    Any Tracking: You are only ever considered to have targeted the person you picked first, and if you redirect their ability, they are considered to have targeted the person you picked second. If you target a tracking role, you get the information they would get from looking at the second target, and they get no result.

    Any JOAT: The second part of the ability succeeds if and only if the JOAT only has one ability type left, because you can't pick which of their abilities to use.

    Any manipulative: The second part of the ability will always fail, because you would need to pick another target for the gossip or additional information for a framer or psychotrooper.

    Town Friendly Neighbour: The second player will get the confirmation that the first player, not you, are the Friendly Neighbour.
    Any other communicative: The second part of the ability will always fail, because you would need to pick the message to be sent and the ability doesn't pick targets in the normal fashion.

    Town or Alien Universal Backup: The entire ability will do nothing.
    Mafia Universal Backup: You will copy the factional ability. The second player will be reported as stabbed as though the universal backup had attacked them deliberately.
    Werewolf Universal Backup: You will copy the factional ability. The second player will be reported as clawed to death as though the universal backup had attacked them deliberately.
    Cult Universal Backup: You will copy the factional ability. The conversion will convert players to the cult, not the aliens, if successful. If the second player is a member of a non-town faction, the cult, not you, will be told that they cannot convert members of that faction.
    Survivor or Serial Killer Universal Backup: These roles should be swapped out by the time the game starts, so you shouldn't ever be able to target one.


    Tracking

    Town Watcher: Once per night, you can choose a target. You learn WHO TARGETED that player.

    Mafia Tracker: Once per night, you can choose a target. You learn WHO WAS TARGETED BY that player.

    Cult Stalker: Once per night, you can choose a target. You learn WHAT ACTIONS WERE TARGETED AT that player.

    Alien Overseer: Once per night, you can choose a target. You learn WHO DID WHAT TO that player and WHO WAS TARGETED BY that player, but NOT WHAT THAT PLAYER DID.

    (Suppose person A heals person B, and person B roleblocks person C. The following are the investigative results on B:

    Watcher: A targeted B.
    Tracker: B targeted C.
    Stalker: B was healed.
    Overseer: A healed B, and B targeted C.)

    Jack of All Trades

    Town, Mafia, Cult or Alien JOAT: You may use your faction's Investigative, Protective, Roleblocking and Tracking powers once each ever.

    Manipulative

    Town Gossip: Once per night, you can target a player, then choose a non-alien Investigative or Tracking role and a second player. You cannot choose yourself for either player. The first player gains the information they would have gained from using that ability on the second player.

    Mafia or Cult Framer: Once per night, you can target a player and make up whatever information you like about them. That information appears true if they are seen, spied, researched, watched, tracked, stalked or overseen that night.

    Alien Psychotrooper: Once per night, you can target a player and make up whatever information you like about them. That information appears true if they are seen, spied, researched, watched, tracked, stalked or overseen that night. Once per game, at night, you can instead choose any number of players and make up whatever information you like about them.

    Communicative

    Town Friendly Neighbour: Once per night, you can choose a target. They recieve confirmation from me that you are a friendly neighbour, though not whether you are a member of the town or a survivor.

    Mafia Informant: You can choose a message to attach to the factional kill when a member of your faction, including you, performs it. The message is posted publically if the kill is successful, but if the kill is blocked for any reason the message is posted to the player who intercepted the kill, whether they're a doctor, roleblocker or survivor, unless you are also role blocked. The message is anonymous by default but you can put your name in the message itself.

    Cult Preacher: You can choose a message to attach to the factional recruitment when a member of your faction, including you, performs it. The message is posted publically if the recruitment is successful, but if the recruitment is blocked for any reason the message is posted to the player who intercepted the recruitment, whether they're a roleblocker or just a non-town faction member, unless you are also role blocked. If the target is killed by the conversion (because of a Cult Fanatic), the message goes to their faction. The message is anonymous by default but you can put your name in the message itself.

    Alien Telepath: You can choose a message to send to a player of your choice, or display publicly, each night. The message is anonymous by default but you can put your name in the message itself.


    Universal Backup

    Town, Mafia, Cult or Alien Universal Backup: The first time ever that a member of your faction dies, you gain their role. If you are the only member of your faction, you immediately gain the role type listed on your discarded card instead.

    Players So Far
    AvatarVecna
    Valmark
    Bathatcat
    Snowblaze
    CaomhinTheCape
    Book Wombat
    Elenna
    Xihirli
    totadileplayz
    rogue_alchemist
    MornShine
    gac3
    bladescape
    Aventine
    JeenLeen
    EmmyNecromancer
    Rogan
    flat_footed
    Apogee1
    Caerulea
    Captain Cap


    Players Alive

    JeenLeen, Survivor Vigilante.
    EmmyNecromancer, Town Jack of All Trades.

    Players Dead

    flat_footed, Alien Overseer, executed Day 1.
    AvatarVecna, Mafia Strongman, shot with a blaster Night 1.
    CaoimhinTheCape, Town Seer, clawed to death Night 1.
    gac3, Alien Jack of All Trades, stabbed with a knife Night 1.
    Captain Cap, Werewolf Jack of All Trades, beaten to death with a tactical flashlight and set on fire Night 1.
    Valmark, Alien Psychotrooper, executed Day 2.
    MornShine, Werewolf Roleblocker, hacked to death with an axe Night 2.
    bladescape, Mafia Jack of All Trades, shot with a pistol and beaten to death with a tactical flashlight Night 2.
    Batcathat, Cult Fanatic, executed Day 3.
    Book Wombat, Town Seer, clawed to death Night 3.
    Xihirli, Town Gossip, shot with a blaster Night 3.
    Rogan, Werewolf Roleblocker, shot with a pistol Night 3.
    Snowblaze, Serial Killer Spy, executed Day 4.
    totadileplayz, Town Doctor, shot with a blaster Night 4.
    rogue_alchemist, Town Seer, clawed to death Night 4.
    Caerulea, Alien Researcher, shot with a pistol Night 4.
    Elenna, Werewolf Doctor, executed Day 5.
    Aventine, Town Vigilante, shot with a blaster Night 5.
    Apogee1, Alien Vigilante, shot with a pistol and beaten to death with a tactical flashlight Night 5.

    Setup Phase Start

    This phase will end at 18:30 BST on 07/07/2021. (This may be delayed by a few minutes; bear with me.)
    Last edited by Unavenger; 2021-07-24 at 02:07 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    AvatarVecna discarded Town Tracking.
    Valmark discarded Town Jack of All Trades.
    Bathatcat discarded Werewolf Killing.
    Snowblaze discarded Town Roleblocking.
    CaoimhinTheCape discarded Town Jack of All Trades.
    Book Wombat discarded Town Tracking.
    Elenna discarded Cult Investigative.
    Xihirli discarded Town Killing.
    totadileplayz discarded Alien Communicative.
    rogue_alchemist discarded Cult Tracking.
    MornShine discarded Mafia Manipulative.
    gac3 discarded Mafia Protective.
    bladescape discarded Alien Investigative.
    Aventine discarded Town Universal Backup.
    JeenLeen discarded Town Roleblocking.
    EmmyNecromancer discarded Mafia Roleblocking.
    Rogan discarded Town Jack of All Trades.
    flat_footed discarded Werewolf Protective.
    Apogee1 discarded Town Protective.
    Caerulea discarded Town Communicative.
    Captain Cap discarded Town Protective.

    Your faction chats will be up in a few minutes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    DAY 1 START

    This phase will end at 19:00 BST, 09/07/2021.
    Last edited by Unavenger; 2021-07-09 at 01:20 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Germany
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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    bladescape discarded Alien Investigative.

    Your faction chats will be up in a few minutes. Please don't start posting until 19:00 GMT while I set these up. Sorry I keep pushing this back, real life is happening right now.
    I vote for Blades.
    He discarded Investigative. What kind of townie throws away the chance to be the seer?

    I also deduct that Unavenger is the Deutsche Bahn (German railway). They have a habit of being late and changing the estimated time of arrival multiple times. (The train will be five minutes to late. *5min later* The train will be ten minutes to late. ETC. )
    Last edited by Rogan; 2021-07-08 at 04:29 AM. Reason: crossing out the vote

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    rogue_alchemist's Avatar

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I vote for Blades.
    He discarded Investigative. What kind of townie throws away the chance to be the seer?

    I also deduct that Unavenger is the Deutsche Bahn (German railway). They have a habit of being late and changing the estimated time of arrival multiple times. (The train will be five minutes to late. *5min later* The train will be ten minutes to late. ETC. )
    FOS on everyone who discarded a town faction card. Especially Rogan because everyone knows you can set your watch by how punctual the Deutsche Bahn is! jajaja

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I vote for Blades.
    He discarded Investigative. What kind of townie throws away the chance to be the seer?

    I also deduct that Unavenger is the Deutsche Bahn (German railway). They have a habit of being late and changing the estimated time of arrival multiple times. (The train will be five minutes to late. *5min later* The train will be ten minutes to late. ETC. )
    Recently, a tree fell on the railway near where a friend was trying to get to another town, and the train was consistently expected to arrive nine minutes after the current time, despite the improbability of that actually happening at this point.

    At least it was an advance on the 07:39, which had been slated to arrive at 7:40 well into the 8:xx hours.

    So don't imagine that Germany is the only country with problems.

    Much like a train, I was delayed by unfortunate unforseen and unavoidable circumstances. Apologies.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    FOS on everyone who discarded a town faction card. Especially Rogan because everyone knows you can set your watch by how punctual the Deutsche Bahn is! jajaja
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    So don't imagine that Germany is the only country with problems.

    Much like a train, I was delayed by unfortunate unforseen and unavoidable circumstances. Apologies.
    See rogue? The narrator agrees that the DB has problems. Your point against me is therefore invalid.

    However, my own deduction was not 100% correct either. Oh well...

    - - - Updated - - -

    And don't worry about the delay.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    AvatarVecna's Avatar

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    Jan 2014

    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Going out on a limb here, but I'm gonna vote Xihirli for discarding a killing role. Something's fishy...
    Last edited by AvatarVecna; 2021-07-09 at 11:54 AM.


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Nothing currently, maybe come start one?

    Avatar by AsteriskAmp

    Aspiring optimizers can try their luck in Zinc Saucier XXXVII: Blast From The Past

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Everyone knows Wizards only become adventurers because it's the fastest way to get more Wizard levels.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    From the last game, it became helpful to know what card distribution was somewhat in play. That is, how many Mafia, Cult, and Alien cards--that helped the Town figure out which factions were active and potentially how many members they had.
    So, for anyone who is about to die, I recommend you say what cards you were dealt. Yeah, we probably won't trust you if you flip a baddie faction, but if you are Town and want to help the Town (or help the other factions kill each other?), then sharing is probably helpful.

    Speculation on card distribution
    Last game, it was possible (if... I think rare) that someone could get 2 'baddie' factions, so merely discarding Werewolf, Alien, Mafia, or Cult doesn't gurantee townie. It was also that some people got 3 Town cards and thus were forced to be Town (if my memory is right, that was based on the first game having only 1 townie, as folk mostly picked 'more fun' factions.)
    So, while discarding a Town card doesn't mean anything for a given person, I think that it's more probable that someone who discarded a Town card is actually a baddie. So I'm voting for one of them: Apogee1.

    HOWEVER, it is also important to note that Unavenger has learned things from each iteration of this game and presumably changed the card distribution based on that. So my reasoning above is inherently flawed. However, it's not nothing, and that's better than one usually has for a D1 initial vote.

    21 players, right?
    4 baddie factions, 2 neutrals, and some forced town. For balance, I reckon there's the same (or +/- 1 of the same number) of cards in play for each baddie faction. So 4*X + 2 < 21, where X is the number of baddie cards in play.
    So I'm guessing 4 players max for each baddie faction. It could be 5 for some, especially if someone was dealt two baddie cards, but such seems... well, unknowable at this stage and not usable speculation. So I'll assume 4.
    That's 4*4 + 2 < 21
    18 < 21
    So at minimum (21-18=3) 3 townies. Likely more, but at least 3.

    We have 3 Mafia discards.
    We have 2 Werewolf discards.
    We have 2 Cult discards.
    We have 2 Alien discards.
    This makes me speculate that, at minimum, we have 1 Mafia, 2 werewolves, 2 Cult, and 2 Aliens. It could be less, but that seems a safe 'minimum' to set for evaluating risks.
    Also makes me speculate that it's not really a minimum of 3 townies, but (3+2+2+2 discarded baddie cards - 2 neutrals) = 7 town.

    So presumably at least 7 baddies, at least 7 town, and 2 neutrals. Though I could see someone discarding Serial Killer (as hard to win as) or Survivor (as boring). But that's still at least 7 baddies and at least 7 town--just definitely could be (and, indeed, as we have 21 players, must be) more than that. Just hard to deduce what faction they'd be part of.

    Please attribute math/logic errors to sleeplessness or confusing numbers in my head, not any purposeful misdirection.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    I vote for Blades.
    He discarded Investigative. What kind of townie throws away the chance to be the seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Going out on a limb here, but I'm gonna vote Xihirli for discarding a killing role. Something's fishy...
    I admit these rationales are also "not nothing", so I agree with their reasoning for a D1 vote.
    Still, I'm reluctant to vote Xi just for not being bloodthirsty. Just because she's usually bloodthirsty and flipped wolf last time she acted non-bloodthirsty.... er, well, I get why AV put her vote there, but still reluctant.
    Last edited by JeenLeen; 2021-07-08 at 10:25 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Book Wombat's Avatar

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Let us hope for good game!
    As always, a random vote.
    Valmark
    Rule Number One: Worship cookies!
    Avatar by linklele!

    Discord: Bookwhyrm#4020, feel free to DM.

    Book Wombat's Extended Signature

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    -. --- - / -- ..- -.-. .... / .... . .-. .

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Xihirli's Avatar

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Going out on a limb here, but I'm gonna vote Xihirli for discarding a killing role. Something's fishy...
    Ah, so the "weíre trying to catch a killer, this person seems like they havenít killed anyone, we have our woman" train continues.

    OMGUS AvatarVecna
    Last edited by Xihirli; 2021-07-08 at 07:08 AM.
    Spoiler: Quotes
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
    Quote Originally Posted by BasketOfPuppies View Post
    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
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    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Spoiler: Shortened quote
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    Speculation on card distribution
    Last game, it was possible (if... I think rare) that someone could get 2 'baddie' factions, so merely discarding Werewolf, Alien, Mafia, or Cult doesn't gurantee townie. It was also that some people got 3 Town cards and thus were forced to be Town (if my memory is right, that was based on the first game having only 1 townie, as folk mostly picked 'more fun' factions.)
    So, while discarding a Town card doesn't mean anything for a given person, I think that it's more probable that someone who discarded a Town card is actually a baddie. So I'm voting for one of them: Apogee1.

    21 players, right?
    4 baddie factions, 2 neutrals, and some forced town. For balance, I reckon there's the same (or +/- 1 of the same number) of cards in play for each baddie faction. So 4*X + 2 < 21, where X is the number of baddie cards in play.
    So I'm guessing 4 players max for each baddie faction. It could be 5 for some, especially if someone was dealt two baddie cards, but such seems... well, unknowable at this stage and not usable speculation. So I'll assume 4.
    That's 4*4 + 2 < 21
    18 < 21
    So at minimum (21-18=3) 3 townies. Likely more, but at least 3.

    I admit these rationales are also "not nothing", so I agree with their reasoning for a D1 vote.
    Still, I'm reluctant to vote Xi just for not being bloodthirsty. Just because she's usually bloodthirsty and flipped wolf last time she acted non-bloodthirsty.... er, well, I get why AV put her vote there, but still reluctant.


    Some initial thoughts to this info wall.

    I am really confident that discarding town does not automatically make you not town. I also thought getting multiple baddys would be somewhat likely, so discarding a bad faction does not make you town.
    But unless we get a somewhat significant number of claims about the cards dealt, we can only guess about the distribution.

    My intuition would say cult has fewer cards than other factions. After all, the cult can replace killed members and even grow, while everyone else can only lose numbers.

    I also think Xi should not be killed day one. I mean, she is murderous and a traitor, but hey... she might want to try something very unexpected this time. Town healer or something. So, give her the benefit of doubt for today. Unless she does something to draw more suspicions than usually.
    Discarding an info gathering role seems more damming to me anyway.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    From the last game, it became helpful to know what card distribution was somewhat in play. That is, how many Mafia, Cult, and Alien cards--that helped the Town figure out which factions were active and potentially how many members they had.
    So, for anyone who is about to die, I recommend you say what cards you were dealt. Yeah, we probably won't trust you if you flip a baddie faction, but if you are Town and want to help the Town (or help the other factions kill each other?), then sharing is probably helpful.

    Speculation on card distribution
    Last game, it was possible (if... I think rare) that someone could get 2 'baddie' factions, so merely discarding Werewolf, Alien, Mafia, or Cult doesn't gurantee townie. It was also that some people got 3 Town cards and thus were forced to be Town (if my memory is right, that was based on the first game having only 1 townie, as folk mostly picked 'more fun' factions.)
    So, while discarding a Town card doesn't mean anything for a given person, I think that it's more probable that someone who discarded a Town card is actually a baddie. So I'm voting for one of them: Apogee1.

    HOWEVER, it is also important to note that Unavenger has learned things from each iteration of this game and presumably changed the card distribution based on that. So my reasoning above is inherently flawed. However, it's not nothing, and that's better than one usually has for a D1 initial vote.

    21 players, right?
    4 baddie factions, 2 neutrals, and some forced town. For balance, I reckon there's the same (or +/- 1 of the same number) of cards in play for each baddie faction. So 4*X + 2 < 21, where X is the number of baddie cards in play.
    So I'm guessing 4 players max for each baddie faction. It could be 5 for some, especially if someone was dealt two baddie cards, but such seems... well, unknowable at this stage and not usable speculation. So I'll assume 4.
    That's 4*4 + 2 < 21
    18 < 21
    So at minimum (21-18=3) 3 townies. Likely more, but at least 3.

    We have 3 Mafia discards.
    We have 2 Werewolf discards.
    We have 2 Cult discards.
    We have 2 Alien discards.
    This makes me speculate that, at minimum, we have 1 Mafia, 2 werewolves, 2 Cult, and 2 Aliens. It could be less, but that seems a safe 'minimum' to set for evaluating risks.
    Also makes me speculate that it's not really a minimum of 3 townies, but (3+2+2+2 discarded baddie cards - 2 neutrals) = 7 town.

    So presumably at least 7 baddies, at least 7 town, and 2 neutrals. Though I could see someone discarding Serial Killer (as hard to win as) or Survivor (as boring). But that's still at least 7 baddies and at least 7 town--just definitely could be (and, indeed, as we have 21 players, must be) more than that. Just hard to deduce what faction they'd be part of.

    Please attribute math/logic errors to sleeplessness or confusing numbers in my head, not any purposeful misdirection.

    - - - Updated - - -





    I admit these rationales are also "not nothing", so I agree with their reasoning for a D1 vote.
    Still, I'm reluctant to vote Xi just for not being bloodthirsty. Just because she's usually bloodthirsty and flipped wolf last time she acted non-bloodthirsty.... er, well, I get why AV put her vote there, but still reluctant.
    I thought about trying to do analysis like this. Most of what you say lines up with what I remember from last game, but with so many unknowns and the fact that the underlying mechanics get changed each time this is played, it felt moot to spell it out. I just struck with the traditional 'random' reason for a vote. Now I did narrow my vote down to those who had discarded town roles, as there are guaranteed *some* baddies in there, so seems pretty better than nothing, but picking Rogan out of the bunch is more of a fun poke at this point than a serious vote.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Why would that be guaranteed?
    Spoiler: Quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
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    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
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    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
    Quote Originally Posted by flat_footed View Post
    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Ah, so the "weíre trying to catch a killer, this person seems like they havenít killed anyone, we have our woman" train continues.

    OMGUS AvatarVecna
    To be fair, the last time this train arrived at the correct place... Still, unless there is no wolf kill and you were roleblocked again, it would be unfair to hold discarding a killing power against you.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    [color=red]Book Wombat[/color] for preventing Valmark from self-voting.

    Serious analysis can wait until tomorrow, although Iíll be afk for much of the day. Should be able to find enough time in the morning to make a start, though.
    Last edited by Snowblaze; 2021-07-09 at 03:14 AM.
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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post

    Some initial thoughts to this info wall.

    I am really confident that discarding town does not automatically make you not town. I also thought getting multiple baddys would be somewhat likely, so discarding a bad faction does not make you town.
    But unless we get a somewhat significant number of claims about the cards dealt, we can only guess about the distribution.

    My intuition would say cult has fewer cards than other factions. After all, the cult can replace killed members and even grow, while everyone else can only lose numbers.

    I also think Xi should not be killed day one. I mean, she is murderous and a traitor, but hey... she might want to try something very unexpected this time. Town healer or something. So, give her the benefit of doubt for today. Unless she does something to draw more suspicions than usually.
    Discarding an info gathering role seems more damming to me anyway.
    Spoiler: info from last game, spoilered so as not to confuse others
    Show
    I will say I remember from the first time I played (which was the second time this had been run), I got Town JOAT, Alien Tracking, Town Investigative. From this I could have ended up with Town Tracking and discarded Town Investigative, so I still would have had an info gathering ability, it just wouldn't have been seer, it would have been Watcher. Not to defend your vote target, just making you aware, as you weren't there for that game.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Somehow it feels like there's both too much and too little information for me to try and figure something out, so for now I'll just vote for the first not-me person on the list with no votes. Snowblaze.
    Last edited by Batcathat; 2021-07-09 at 01:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    flat_footed, on account of having discarded 'protective'.

    w.r.t. JeenLeen's logic: I don't think there would be the same number of cult cards as mafia/werewolves/aliens. Mostly because it would create the possibility of a large (4 going by Jeen's suggestion) person cult at the start of the game. To me that would seem overly strong, though perhaps it would be balanced by there being fewer town and more wolves? It still would heavily disfavor town victory I think.
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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Overall I believe that it is more likely for scum to hide in the town's it's still possible for scum to hide in the scum discards but I seriously doubt they'd be hiding behind a cult or alien.

    Of those that discarded town. The most alarming is Rogan. They actively said in recruitment that they'd want to be a cultist and if they can't be that they'd be town to become a cultist. They discarded town.


    Other notables are Xihirli.

    And the person I'd consider the most sus hiding behind a wolf would be batcathat discarded a killing role, and they know how impactful that can be.
    Last edited by totadileplayz; 2021-07-09 at 11:38 AM.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Why would that be guaranteed?
    because the odds of that many people having all town cards is low, and the general consensus is that town is less fun as you don't have a group to talk with/plan with. With so many factions being town is also a lot harder, so I will guarantee that there is at least 1 baddie in the group that discarded town cards.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    Spoiler: info from last game, spoilered so as not to confuse others
    Show
    I will say I remember from the first time I played (which was the second time this had been run), I got Town JOAT, Alien Tracking, Town Investigative. From this I could have ended up with Town Tracking and discarded Town Investigative, so I still would have had an info gathering ability, it just wouldn't have been seer, it would have been Watcher. Not to defend your vote target, just making you aware, as you weren't there for that game.
    Thanks for the reminder. I'll keep it in mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Caerulea View Post
    flat_footed, on account of having discarded 'protective'.

    w.r.t. JeenLeen's logic: I don't think there would be the same number of cult cards as mafia/werewolves/aliens. Mostly because it would create the possibility of a large (4 going by Jeen's suggestion) person cult at the start of the game. To me that would seem overly strong, though perhaps it would be balanced by there being fewer town and more wolves? It still would heavily disfavor town victory I think.
    Okay, you are probably right about protective being a very strong power, maybe even more powerful than seer. After all, you can both self target when you don't know who is hostile and protect other helpful people. Especially when you can't target yourself.
    So, info gathering and protection as suggested top picks from a power perspective? For fun, I think other roles would be better.

    Agree about the cult, but I said so before.

    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    Overall I believe that it is more likely for scum to hide in the town's it's still possible for scum to hide in the scum discards but I seriously doubt they'd be hiding behind a cult or alien.

    Of those that discarded town. The most alarming is Rogan. They actively said in recruitment that they'd want to be a cultist and if they can't be that they'd be town to become a cultist. They discarded town.


    Other notables are Xihirli.

    And the person I'd consider the most sus hiding behind a wolf would be batcathat discarded a killing role, and they know how impactful that can be.
    I don't think I said I want to be town to become a cultists? I joked about joining to help make a cult, but part of this was unavanger stating he could delay the game start to help someone make the cut.
    My preference I openly stated was a survivor gifting info gathering powers to other people for fun and profit.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions

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    Still trying to get Valmark lynched D1.
    Last edited by Elenna; 2021-07-09 at 09:11 AM. Reason: wrong colour
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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    CaoimhinTheCape. I'm not sure you've got no votes on you though, I kinda lost count midway.

    Anyway, I wouldn't put too much stock on what was said in recruitment before cards were being dealt- they aren't actually indicative of anything since there wasn't anything to indicate just yet (imo).
    Last edited by Valmark; 2021-07-09 at 05:17 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Still trying to get Valmark lynched D1.
    Iíll join you after Iím done being indignant
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zar Peter View Post
    Supagoof took the most blows and incidentally took exactly the same damage Xihirli inflicted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silent_Interim View Post
    Xihirli: Being a better target since 2015.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elenna View Post
    Xihirli, bastion of murder and betrayal.
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    Wow I missed a lot today. So, kill Xihirli?
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarVecna View Post
    Nobody else is gonna be right behind me, right now. Only Xihirli.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    If Xi and I agree some more, I will start to doubt my own alignment!
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    I still prefer to see you as the dagger hanging over us all, Xi.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Ah, so the "weíre trying to catch a killer, this person seems like they havenít killed anyone, we have our woman" train continues.

    OMGUS AvatarVecna
    Absence of evidence is evidence of conspiracy, after all :p

    -------------------

    Anyways Jeen's table pretty drastically underpredicts the number of people of each alignment in my experience with how the previous two games have gone.

    Reading too much into what people select just makes it easier for wolf/maf/cult/alien/sk to figure out who the cops and vig's are.

    I'd be interested in seeing why flat-footed didn't take protective, but in my own experience a doc in this kind of game is both boring and pretty useless for town.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Thanks for the reminder. I'll keep it in mind.



    Okay, you are probably right about protective being a very strong power, maybe even more powerful than seer. After all, you can both self target when you don't know who is hostile and protect other helpful people. Especially when you can't target yourself.
    So, info gathering and protection as suggested top picks from a power perspective? For fun, I think other roles would be better.

    Agree about the cult, but I said so before.



    I don't think I said I want to be town to become a cultists? I joked about joining to help make a cult, but part of this was unavanger stating he could delay the game start to help someone make the cut.
    My preference I openly stated was a survivor gifting info gathering powers to other people for fun and profit.
    If you find one more player, you can count me in as well.

    This way I would help you make the cult
    I don't know if the words I remembered were deleted, edited or simply fabricated in my mind but you do Express interest in making the cult.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Xihirli View Post
    Iíll join you after Iím done being indignant
    Love u 2~ <3


    Currently Recruiting WW/Mafia: Nothing currently, maybe come start one?

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Spoiler: Cult tangent
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    Quote Originally Posted by totadileplayz View Post
    I don't know if the words I remembered were deleted, edited or simply fabricated in my mind but you do Express interest in making the cult.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    Recruitment will probably be two weeks, but I can push it just a little longer if that's gonna help you make the cut.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    At first, I thought you had written "help you make the cult.

    I am not sure if I am going to join. But I am interested.
    Later, when there was only one player needed to get cult cards, I joined the game, thereby creating a cult - or at least create the possibility of a cult.
    But my intend was more of a continued joke than the wish to be a member of the cult.

    But enough of the recruitment thread, or else I have to claim seer.


    Does anybody disagree about the possibility of there being fewer cult cards than cards for other evildoers? There obviously are more town cards than any single other factions.
    Spoiler: I'm a seer
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Unavenger View Post
    All the discussion of how weird the half-hour start is seems weirdly prescient, in retrospect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Can I use my prediction of the half an hour being used to set up Factional chats as proof I am the Seer?
    Quote Originally Posted by rogue_alchemist View Post
    only IRL, not as in game proof, as we all know that recruitment threads don't count for making IG decisions

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Does anybody disagree about the possibility of there being fewer cult cards than cards for other evildoers? There obviously are more town cards than any single other factions.
    Since they can make more of themselves, it would make sense if there was less of them to start with. But since I haven't played one of the Crazy Idea games before, I don't really know if that reasoning makes sense.

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    Default Re: Craziest Idea Mafia

    Quote Originally Posted by Rogan View Post
    Spoiler: Cult tangent
    Show







    Later, when there was only one player needed to get cult cards, I joined the game, thereby creating a cult - or at least create the possibility of a cult.
    But my intend was more of a continued joke than the wish to be a member of the cult.

    But enough of the recruitment thread, or else I have to claim seer.


    Does anybody disagree about the possibility of there being fewer cult cards than cards for other evildoers? There obviously are more town cards than any single other factions.
    I asked Unavenger last time about the distribution of cards and they said that it is not even. So I think Cult will start with fewer, now there is also the choice element, so maybe instead of starting with 7 of each card cult only starts with 5, which would still be too many for normal balance, but assuming that some people will discard cult (like I did).

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