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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    zimmerwald1915's Avatar

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
    He almost certainly did. Compare it with Malack casting Harm on Nale here.
    Thanks for the reference. It seems harm takes effect between panels, at least in this arc. Redcloak's use of it to heal Xykon in the Azure City throne room takes place in one panel.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2013-02-27 at 05:48 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
    I suspect that not only does he choose to remain a vampire... he might have very well chosen to become a vampire.
    Since we don't know how Malack became a Vampire, its pointless to speculate whether he chose to be sired or it happened against his will. Is it possible? He is a Cleric of Nergal, so maybe he did seek to become a Vampire as part of serving his deity. But that's just speculation at this point.

    He definitely is choosing to remain among the Children of the Night, and he wants to ease his loneliness by creating Vampire Spawn (his "children"). But we don't know his full story yet.

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Thanks for the reference. It seems harm takes effect between panels, at least in this arc. Redcloak's use of it to heal Xykon in the Azure City throne room takes place in one panel.
    I think usually heal appears instantaneous too. Maybe just an art difference between healing and causing damage.
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    It's not a mistake to try and get rid of the death ward. It was a mistake to rely on a caster level check to get rid of it when Malack's actual caster level, given his Vampire Level Adjustment and his Lizardfolk [?] Racial Hit Dice might be equal to or lower than Durkon's.
    True. But Malack is clearly at least 11th level minimum. So at absolute worst his chance of success is 30%.

    As I see it, if Malack wants a reasonable expectation of an actual win he must take down that Deathward. Durkon has more HP and will grind down Malack enough that Malack will be forced to flee.

  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Welcome to 1 HP, Malack.

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
    In the 2nd ed Book of Lairs (collection of Forgotten Realms mini-adventures)- one of the quests consists of-

    Vampire hires you to go to a swamp, find his soul (which has taken the form of a Crimson Death) - capture it in a bottle, and bring it back to him so he can try and un-vamp himself.

    In the 3rd ed MM2 Crimson Deaths are extremely intelligent- INT 17.
    I stand corrected: my understanding of the 2E Crimson Death was based on Jander's fear of becoming one if he died.

    Crimson Deaths seem to have originated as part of the Forgotten Realms, so it could be a specific part of Realms Lore.

  7. - Top - End - #277
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Snails View Post
    Durkon has more HP and will grind down Malack enough that Malack will be forced to flee.
    How do you figure Durkon, Thor bless him, has more HP? d8 cleric hit die vs. d12 for the vampire. Even if Durkon has a +3 from some truly studly Con, that would still put them on equal footing... well, minus the difference in levels.

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    ...so what do you think the odds are that Tarquin carries Malack's whatever-the-lizardfolk-equivalent-of-a-coffin-is on his person?

  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Raineh Daze View Post
    Remaining a vampire, I can understand as an objection. Not seeking out your immediate destruction? Um, unless there's a 13th level cleric and 5,000GP of diamonds on hand, you're probably better off not turning into a pile of ash so immediately.

    Just because there's an afterlife, doesn't mean that you should be so eager to get to it if there's anything important to focus on.
    One more point: Vampire Spawn (the 4HD guys) are under the complete control of the Vampire that sired them. They have no say in whether they even can destroy themselves (that's part of the reason Erasmus van Richten needed his father to stake him: Baron Metis would have sensed and overruled Erasmus' attempt to stake himself).

  10. - Top - End - #280
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    While he probably can't take him fully out, vampire and all, I think Durkons got the edge here. Direct-combat doesn't seem to be Malacks thing (or nearly so much as Durkons) to begin with, and hes already disadvantaged by the ward. Plus Malacks burned up a pile of spells already making those mummies earlier, unless vampires have that talent.

  11. - Top - End - #281
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    This is so awesome.
    Recent comics, Durkon, update speed, everything!
    I love it!

    Thanks Rich

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Awesome comic. I actually did a small fist-pump at my desk when I read the Heal :)

    Malack's not done - heck, Nale got away after Malack threw a harm spell on him, and I don't expect this to be the end of Malack, either.

    I don't think Heal is a knock-out blow. it will be interesting to see if Malack stays around or not.

  13. - Top - End - #283
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Adeptus View Post
    How do you figure Durkon, Thor bless him, has more HP? d8 cleric hit die vs. d12 for the vampire. Even if Durkon has a +3 from some truly studly Con, that would still put them on equal footing... well, minus the difference in levels.
    The level difference favors Durkon; Malack has a high ECL from being a vampiric lizardfolk, but that doesn't translate into actual levels. That's what Durkon was gloating about when the dispel attempt (which is level-based) failed.
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MurderOfCrows View Post
    While he probably can't take him fully out, vampire and all, I think Durkons got the edge here. Direct-combat doesn't seem to be Malacks thing (or nearly so much as Durkons) to begin with, and hes already disadvantaged by the ward. Plus Malacks burned up a pile of spells already making those mummies earlier, unless vampires have that talent.
    Staff. The mummies came from his staff.

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    This is beautiful and awesome and and and SQUEEE.

    Great use of perspective and angles. The slow zoom in to the close-up really drives home the last panel.

  16. - Top - End - #286
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Leorik View Post
    I stand corrected: my understanding of the 2E Crimson Death was based on Jander's fear of becoming one if he died.

    Crimson Deaths seem to have originated as part of the Forgotten Realms, so it could be a specific part of Realms Lore.
    No. The origin of both is the 2ed Monstrous Compendium entry on Crimson deaths, which noted, "These are commonly linked in legend with vampires. Some believe that when a person becomes a vampire his/her soul separates from his/her body and is transformed into a crimson death. Others believe that a vampire who is destroyed will become a crimson death."

  17. - Top - End - #287
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    "Some claimed that the crimson death was the soul of a slain vampire" - but that doesn't mean the claims are correct.

    The adventure has it be (at least according to legend, and to that vampire's research) the soul essence of a living vampire- but it might differ in other settings.

    On checking The Book of Lairs- I find that the Crimson Death in that is "Int: Genius".
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2013-02-27 at 06:04 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
    Or this moment.
    Aye, that was my second thought.
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Okay, I may have misunderstood (or misremembered) what Jander's fear of becoming a Crimson Death was based on. He was an adventurer before being sired, and spent years after being freed from servitude following rumors of a cure for Vampirism, so he might have heard the rumors about Vampires becoming Crimson Deaths that the 2E Monstrous Manual refers to. As a result he saw suicide as a possible dead end: if the rumor was true he'd just become another monster, this one without a body.

  20. - Top - End - #290
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePhantasm View Post
    He almost certainly did. Compare it with Malack casting Harm on Nale here.
    But there is also this.
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  21. - Top - End - #291
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir_Leorik View Post
    He was an adventurer before being sired, and spent years after being freed from servitude following rumors of a cure for Vampirism, so he might have heard the rumors about Vampires becoming Crimson Deaths that the 2E Monstrous Manual refers to. As a result he saw suicide as a possible dead end: if the rumor was true he'd just become another monster, this one without a body.
    Sounds about right, based on my copy of Vampire of the Mists.
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Xelbiuj View Post
    The poison reminds me of the other topic.
    Lirian didn't know poison was ineffective against undead, Malack didn't know it was ineffective against dwarfs.

    What's with the high level adventurers screwing up poison? lol
    It's not ineffective against undead, they are flat out immune against it. Dwarves merely get a bonus to their saving throw, but are fully affected otherwise

  23. - Top - End - #293
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Btw as a sidenote, do you think Practiced Spellcaster exists in the OotSverse?

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by SoC175 View Post
    It's not ineffective against undead, they are flat out immune against it. Dwarves merely get a bonus to their saving throw, but are fully affected otherwise
    The Poison spell in 3.5 deals Constitution damage, right? Maybe Malack was trying out a longshot strategy to lower Durkon's Constitution, to make it easier for Malack to sire the dwarf? The tactic failed thanks to Durkon's high Con score, Dwarven immunity to Poison and good Cleric Fort save, but it seems like a more legitimate tactic (if a long shot to work) if we are assuming that Malack wants to sire Durkon.

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Looks like the thorprayer machine is finally working.

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrod View Post
    Btw as a sidenote, do you think Practiced Spellcaster exists in the OotSverse?
    If the author wants it to.

    I'm not sure Practiced Spellcaster helps with ECLs, only with casters whose Caster Levels and Hit Dice are not equal. Practiced Spellcaster would help Nale, not Malack.

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Trixie View Post
    But there is also this.
    It probably comes down to how fast things are moving per strip. Due to space constraints and the fast pace of the action, Rich probably wanted to show Hinjo getting hit with harm, the skeleton getting smited (can't remember what it actually was at the moment) and Hinjo getting stabbed within 3 panels, which he couldn't do unless they were drawn the was they were in 453. In 811, he probably wanted to spend some time on the fight between Malack and Nale, so he dragged things out more compared to 453 and drew it the way he did. In the current strip he is also concentrating on a fight between two people, Durkon and Malack. It might also be just a change in how he decided to draw positive and negative energy spells working, in which case the more recent example is the better one to go by.

    BTW, I know the fight in 811 wasn't truly 1-on-1, but within the context of the first four panels it is purely a fight between Malack and Nale.
    Last edited by Petey7; 2013-02-27 at 06:24 PM.
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    Really didn't expect Tarquin's long-term ally would be defeated (he'd be nicely below 0HP if not for a lucky save against this heal) in just ~3 rounds.

    Durkon has already shown he's quite capable in combat, but I expected more of Malak. It's a letdown, but in the end not everyone is as good as they first seem to be (even if they are vampire-clerics). However, this does actually make me wonder just how much Tarquin's plans hinge on his own expertise; and since he wasn't defeated so far, just how tough that would make him be...
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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    OMG I can't watch! [covers eyes]

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    Default Re: OOTS #873 - The Discussion Thread

    I think my favorite detail in the whole strip was the purple "blood."
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