Are you tired of Fighters yet?

[Piggy Knowles]

Hey, all.

Let me start with this disclaimer: I AM NOT INTENDING TO "FIX" THE FIGHTER. This is not a fighter fix that I think everyone should adopt. I am just, on a personal level, considering houseruling this version of the fighter into the next campaign I run, and I'd like some feedback before I do so.

I happen to like the fighter and its clunky mechanics, even though I know they've got some problems. I've toyed around with various fixes, but most of them didn't feel like fighters to me.

But years ago, on the BG boards, I remember PhaedrusXY mentioning that in his games, he houserules that, after level 12, fighters can start taking certain epic feats instead of regular feats. I've got to say, I loved the idea. It keeps the mechanic more or less the same, but tweaks it in such a way that a fighter can do things other classes can't. I told myself then that, if I ever ran another campaign, I'd use the idea.

I've also been considering various versions of "floating feat" fighters - fighters that can master different types of weapons and fighting styles by switching out their feats. They seem like a cool concept, but I've never seen them executed in a way that I liked. In the end, rather than having floating feats, I decided to give them two fairly simple abilities:

• The warblade's weapon aptitude, only tweaked so that fighters can use it immediately, and
• A level-based mechanic that allows fighters to use nonproficient weapons, magical weapons for other races, etc.

Finally, I added on a couple of skills that I always felt were missing - Spot, Listen, Sense Motive and Profession. The first three make it possible for a fighter to fulfill the "guard" role, while the latter just seems like an oversight to not have.

Anyhow, here's what I've got. I'd like some feedback on it, before I actually allow it in my next campaign (whenever that may be).

FIGHTER

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10

Class Skills
Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str)

Skill Points: 4 skill points per level

Table: The Fighter
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Class Features

1st|

+1

|

+2

|

+0

|

+0

|Bonus feat, weapon master

2nd|

+2

|

+3

|

+0

|

+0

|Bonus feat

3rd|

+3

|

+3

|

+1

|

+1

|Weapon aptitude

4th|

+4

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|Bonus feat

5th|

+5

|

+4

|

+1

|

+1

|

6th|

+6/+1

|

+5

|

+2

|

+2

|Bonus feat

7th|

+7/+2

|

+5

|

+2

|

+2

|Rapid aptitude

8th|

+8/+3

|

+6

|

+2

|

+2

|Bonus feat

9th|

+9/+4

|

+6

|

+3

|

+3

|Master weaponsmith

10th|

+10/+5

|

+7

|

+3

|

+3

|Bonus feat, improved weapon master

11th|

+11/+6/+1

|

+7

|

+3

|

+3

|

12th|

+12/+7/+2

|

+8

|

+4

|

+4

|Legendary feat

13th|

+13/+8/+3

|

+8

|

+4

|

+4

|

14th|

+14/+9/+4

|

+9

|

+4

|

+4

|Legendary feat

15th|

+15/+10/+5

|

+9

|

+5

|

+5

|Instant aptitude

16th|

+16/+11/+6/+1

|

+10

|

+5

|

+5

|Legendary feat

17th|

+17/+12/+7/+2

|

+10

|

+5

|

+5

|

18th|

+18/+13/+8/+3

|

+11

|

+6

|

+6

|Legendary feat

19th|

+19/+14/+9/+4

|

+11

|

+6

|

+6

|

20th|

+20/+15/+10/+5

|

+12

|

+6

|

+6

|Legendary feat, improved weapon master[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the fighter.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies
A fighter is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armor (heavy, medium, and light) and shields (including tower shields).

Bonus feats
At 1st level, a fighter gets a bonus combat-oriented feat in addition to the feat that any 1st-level character gets and the bonus feat granted to a human character. The fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 2nd level and again at 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th level. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats. A fighter must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat, including ability score and base attack bonus minimums.

Weapon Master
The fighter is intimately familiar with weapons of all varieties, and has an uncanny knack for learning how to use them. You can make a weapon master check to perform various tasks with weapons you are unfamiliar with. This check is equal to your Fighter level plus your Wisdom modifier (if positive). At level 10 and again at level 20, you get a +2 bonus to this check.

If you have 5 or more ranks in Craft (Weaponsmithing), you get a +2 bonus on weapon master checks.

Weapon Master Tasks and DCs

Spoiler

Show

Weapon Master DCs
{table=head]Task|Weapon Master DC
Sheathe Weapon|DC 10
Appraise Magic Weapon|DC 15
Wield Exotic Weapon|DC 15
Wield Oversized Weapon|DC 20
Emulate Class Feature|DC 20
Emulate Race|DC 25
Emulate Alignment|DC 30[/table]

Sheathe Weapon
You may sheathe a weapon as a free action combined with a regular move with a DC 10 weapon master check.

Appraise Magic Weapon
With a DC 15 weapon master check, you can determine some of the magical properties of a given weapon. This requires one minute of uninterrupted study of the weapon and requires both close study and wielding the weapon as you try a few sample swings (so, for example, cursed weapons would have their curses activate). Success means you determine one of its magical properties, to be randomly determined by the DM. For every five points you beat the DC by, you learn another magical property.

Wield Exotic Weapon
When wielding an exotic weapon that you are not proficient with, you may make a DC 15 weapon master check as a swift action to ignore the non-proficiency penalties for one round. With a DC 25 check, you may instead do this as a free action.

Wield Oversized Weapon
When wielding a weapon not properly sized for you, you may make a DC 20 weapon master check as a swift action to ignore the size penalties. This only works with weapons within one size of you. With a DC 30 check, you may instead do this as a free action.

Emulate Class Feature
If you need a particular class feature to use or unlock the abilities of a certain magical weapon, you may attempt to emulate that class feature with a DC 20 weapon master check. Your effective level in the emulated class is equal to your check result minus 20. This ability does not let you actually use the class feature of another class. It just lets you activate magic weapons as if you had that class feature. If the class whose feature you are emulating has an alignment requirement, you must meet it, either honestly or by emulating an appropriate alignment with a separate weapon master check.

Emulate Race
Some magic weapons only work for members of certain races, or work better for members of those races. You can use such a weapon as if you were a race of your choice with a DC 25 weapon master check. You can only emulate one race at a time.

Emulate Alignment
Some magic weapons have positive or negative effects based on the user’s alignment. You can use these items as if you were an alignment of your choice with a DC 30 weapon master check. You can only emulate one alignment at a time.

Weapon Aptitude
You have the flexibility to adjust your weapon training. As a full-round action, you may change the designated weapon for any feat you have that applies only to a single weapon (such as Weapon Focus). In order to use this ability, you must be familiar with the weapon you are changing it to. Familiarity requires at least one hour of practice with the weapon per week.

For example, if you wish to change the designated weapon for your Weapon Focus feat from greatsword to longsword, you must be have practiced with a longsword for at least an hour within the past week.

You can adjust any number of your feats this way, and you don’t have to adjust them all in the same way. However, you can’t change the weapon choices in such a way that you no longer meet the prerequisite for some other feat you possess. For instance, if you have both Weapon Focus (longsword) and Weapon Specialization (longsword), you can’t change the designated weapon for Weapon Focus unless you change the weapon for Weapon Specialization in the same way.

Rapid Aptitude
At level 7, you may use your weapon aptitude ability as a standard action.

Master Weaponsmith
At level 9, you can create magical weapons and armor as if you had the Craft Magic Arms and Armor feat. Use your fighter level as your caster level. If you want to craft weapons or armor that require a specific spell, you may either have another caster supply the spell, or attempt a weapon master check to imbue the weapon with the spell. The DC is 15 + spell level for divine spells, or 25 + spell level for arcane spells.

Legendary Feat
At level 12 and beyond, instead of a normal fighter feat, you may choose from a limited selection of epic feats. You may choose these feats even if you do not qualify based on level, ability score or skill requirements. However, you must still have any of the relevant pre-requisite feats. You may choose to take a regular fighter feat in place of an epic feat. The allowable epic feats are as follows:

Armor Skin, Blinding Speed, Combat Archery, Damage Reduction, Devastating Critical, Dire Charge, Distant Shot, Epic Endurance, Epic Fortitude, Epic Prowess, Epic Reflexes, Epic Toughness, Epic Weapon Focus, Epic Weapon Specialization, Epic Will, Fast Healing, Great Constitution, Great Dexterity, Great Strength, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Manyshot, Improved Whirlwind Attack, Instant Reload, Legendary Climber, Legendary Leaper, Legendary Rider, Legendary Wrestler, Overwhelming Critical, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Spellcasting Harrier, Storm of Throws, Superior Initiative, Swarm of Arrows, Two-Weapon Rend, Uncanny Accuracy

Instant Aptitude
At level 15, you may use your weapon aptitude ability as a swift action.

[ngilop]

This seems like a GREAT idea.

bump up teh skill points to 4 per level first.

Id give teh fighters some sort of cool cap-stone ability and between 7th-10th level let them make a full attack as a standard action.

also shameless plug for new fighter feats you cna use in your game if you do ever get the chance to use it.

[Kane0]

Tired of fighters? Hell no.

Good work, would you mind if I add it to my collection? Feel free to take anything from my own 'brews as inspiration.

[Piggy Knowles]

Good work, would you mind if I add it to my collection? Feel free to take anything from my own 'brews as inspiration.

Please do! I'm checking out some of your work now.

I considered 4 SP/level, but I erred on the side of leaving the fighter chassis alone. But I guess upping the skill points would put it more in line with similar classes.

[bobthe6th]

huh, this seems solid. I could see offering an even more limited selection of epic feats a little lower. Epic feats are perfect for a high level fighter as they are built to be taken a lot.

I approve of the addition of a UMD like ability, the weapon aptitude, and the free crafting. That would knock the insane prices for high level arms and armor down a peg.

Still, this doesn't feel terribly relevant outside of combat. Also it lacks things to deal with larger sizes at high levels. What about a scaling bonus to str/dex/con based checks, and a ability that lets them count as the size of their opponent if that would be beneficial for a check.

[Piggy Knowles]

huh, this seems solid. I could see offering an even more limited selection of epic feats a little lower. Epic feats are perfect for a high level fighter as they are built to be taken a lot.

I approve of the addition of a UMD like ability, the weapon aptitude, and the free crafting. That would knock the insane prices for high level arms and armor down a peg.

Still, this doesn't feel terribly relevant outside of combat. Also it lacks things to deal with larger sizes at high levels. What about a scaling bonus to str/dex/con based checks, and a ability that lets them count as the size of their opponent if that would be beneficial for a check.

Thanks!

The epic feats help a little with the large size issue - for example, Legendary Wrestler's +10 untyped bonus to grapple checks is even better than jumping two size categories. Sadly, there's no equivalent feat for tripping. Maybe a new category of weapon master checks that let you count as one size larger when performing a weapon maneuver (trip/disarm/sunder)?

I also need to trawl through some other books for epic feats that didn't appear in the SRD/ELH, which might be worth including.

I do think I'm going to go ahead and improve the listed skill points to 4/level, though. Especially now that there are reasons for taking things like craft, it just makes sense.

[bobthe6th]

You have a lot of dead levels. Just giving them a scaling ability to count as a size larger against creatures larger then them up to the opponents size would make the numbers work.

Also, this could use an extra skill point per level to only use on craft checks.

[Wargamer]

I definitely like your remixed Fighter. It certainly ticks all of my boxes; it feels like a Fighter, it has a few new tricks but nothing overly wordy or time consuming to execute. Overall, this gets my "Yoho!" of approval. :)