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    Default [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    Nightwearer


    Image by SirTiefling. Used with permission.

    Incarnum can be cerulean, turquoise, sapphire, indigo, cobolt, or navy. Or it can be the blue of midnight, that blue close to black you wonder if it's even a color. It sucks you in and devours you, and the only way to escape without becoming a hollow shell of a man is to make it a part of you.
    —Rikrik, Kobold Nightwearer

    Most incarnates are dabblers. They do a little bit of everything, never committing themselves to one strategy. The soulmelds they shape and bind change day by day, and they rarely have one they can call their favorite.

    But then, they rarely have access to the likes of the raiment of the night.

    The three soulmelds that make up the raiment of the night—the dusk gloves, the twilight cloak, and the midnight vestments—draw upon the souls of deceased thieves, saboteurs, enchanters, ninjas, illusionists, spies, and even those mortals affected by the blood of Vecna, whose only connection to the world is the imprint their soul left on incarnum. They bestow the power to hide from enemies, to trick them, to blind them, and to craft spells that bypass their defenses and ensnare them in webs of shadow and deceit.

    Anyone, with some knowledge and skill, can learn to shape one or two of the raiment's members, but to truly master them takes skill at deception and magic in addition to meldshaping. These rare meldshaper-mages are the nightwearers.

    Hitdie
    d4.

    Requirements
    To qualify to become a nightwearer, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria.

    Skills
    Hide 8, Knowledge (arcana) 8, Move Silently 8, Sleight of Hand 8.

    Feats
    Incarnum Spellshaping or Midnight Metamagic.

    Spellcasting
    Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells.

    Meldshaping
    Ability to shape two soulmelds.

    Special
    Must have the Cloaked Casting class feature.

    Table: The Nightwearer
    Level Base AttackBonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Spellcasting/Meldshaping
    1st
    +0
    +0
    +0
    +2
    Bind dusk gloves, raiment of the night +1 level of existing meldshaping class or +1 level of existing spellcasting class
    2nd
    +1
    +0
    +0
    +3
    Cloaked casting, incarnum magic +1 level of existing meldshaping class/+1 level of existing spellcasting class
    3rd
    +1
    +1
    +1
    +3
    Chakra binds (crown, feet, hands), low-light vision +1 level of existing meldshaping class/+1 level of existing spellcasting class
    4th
    +2
    +1
    +1
    +4
    Hidden incarnum (invisible) +1 level of existing meldshaping class/+1 level of existing spellcasting class
    5th
    +2
    +1
    +1
    +4
    Darkvision, expanded essentia capacity +1 level of existing spellcasting class/+1 level of existing spellcasting class
    6th
    +3
    +2
    +2
    +5
    Bind twilight mantle +1 level of existing meldshaping class/+1 level of existing spellcasting class
    7th
    +3
    +2
    +2
    +5
    Improved low-light vision +1 level of existing meldshaping class/+1 level of existing spellcasting class
    8th
    +4
    +2
    +2
    +6
    Chakra binds (arms, brow, shoulders) +1 level of existing meldshaping class/+1 level of existing spellcasting class
    9th
    +4
    +3
    +3
    +6
    Ebon vision, hidden incarnum (undetectable) +1 level of existing meldshaping class/+1 level of existing spellcasting class
    10th
    +5
    +3
    +3
    +7
    Bind midnight robe +1 level of existing meldshaping class/+1 level of existing spellcasting class
    Class Skills (6 + Int modifier per level): Bluff, Concentration, Decipher Script, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (the planes), Listen, Move Silently, Open Lock, Profession, Search, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble, Use Magic Device

    Class Features
    All of the following are Class Features of the the nightwearer prestige class.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Nightwearers gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Meldshaping
    At every level except 1st, a nightwearer increases her meldshaper level, the number of soulmelds she can shape, the number of chakra binds she can create, and her essentia pool as if she had also gained a level in whatever meldshaping class to which she belonged before she added the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one meldshaping class before becoming a nightwearer, she must decide to which class she adds each level for the purpose of determining her essentia pool, meldshaper level, and the number of soulmeleds and chakra binds available.

    At 1st-level, a nightwearer increases her meldshaper level, the number of soulmelds she can shape, the number of chakra binds she can create, and her essentia pool as if she had also gained a level in whatever meldshaping class to which she belonged before she added the prestige class level if her meldshaper level is lower than her caster level. If her meldshaper level is equal to her caster level when she takes her first level in nighwearer, she may choose whether to progress her meldshaping or her spellcasting.

    Spellcasting
    At every level except 1st, a nightwearer gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class to which she belonged before she added the prestige class level. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained. If she had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a nightwearer, she must decide to which class she adds each level for the purpose of determining spells per day and spells known.

    At 1st-level, a nightwearer gains new spells per day (and spells known, if applicable) as if she had also gained a level in whatever spellcasting class to which she belonged before she added the prestige class level if her caster level is lower than her meldshaper level. If her meldshaper level is equal to her caster level when she takes her first level in nighwearer, she may choose whether to progress her meldshaping or her spellcasting.

    Raiment of the Night (Ex)
    Upon taking her first level, a nightwearer gains the ability to shape the dusk gloves, twilight mantle, and midnight cloak soulmelds.

    Bind Dusk Gloves
    Starting at 1st level a nightwearer gains the ability to bind her dusk gloves soulmeld to her hands chakra, even if she cannot normally bind soulmelds to that chakra.

    Cloaked Casting (Ex)
    Starting at 2nd level, a nightwearer adds her nightwearer level -1 to her beguiler level to determine the effect of her cloaked casting and surprise casting abilities. For example, a 4th-level beguiler/1st-level incarnate/5th-level nightwearer would gain a +2 bonus on rolls made to to overcome the spell resistance of a spell's target if it would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC.

    Incarnum Magic (Ex)
    A 2nd-level nightwearer adds all [Incarnum] spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list to her spell list. The nightwearer still must possess the Incarnum Spellshaping feat to cast [Incarnum] spells.

    Chakra Binds
    As she attain higher levels, a nightwearer can bind her soulmelds and magic items to her chakras, gaining new powers based on the combination chosen. At 3rd level, she can bind her soulmelds or magic items to her least chakras (crown, feet, and hands), in addition to any other chakras she has available. When she attains 8th level, her lesser chakras (arms, brow, and shoulders) become available for chakra binds.

    Low-Light Vision (Su)
    At 3rd-level, a nightwearer gains low-light vision, allowing her to see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. If she already has low-light vision, she gains improved low-light vision, allowing her to see four times as far in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination.

    Hidden Incarnum (Ex)
    Starting at 4th level, a nightwearer is able to hide her soulmelds from observation. This is a free action, and renders her soulmelds invisible until she uses a free action to make them visible again. At 9th-level, a nightwearer may choose to also render her soulmelds undetectable by any sense, including magical ones like true seeing.

    Effects that rely on the soulmeld's visibility (such as the miss chance of twilight cloak or the concealment of fellmist robe) cease to function when the soulmeld is hidden, and using a hidden soulmeld to attack an enemy causes it to instantly become visible, though the nightwearer can re-hide them with a free action. By the time she does so, however, all observers will have had time to identify them as normal.

    Darkvision (Su)
    At 5th level, a nightwearer gains Darkvision 60'. If she already had darkvision, the range of her darkvision increases by 60'.

    Expanded Essentia Capacity (Ex)
    At 5th level the essentia capacity of a nightwearer's dusk gloves, twilight mantle, and midnight cloak soulmelds increases by 1, superseding the number on Table 2-1 in Magic of Incarnum.

    Bind Twilight Mantle
    Starting at 6th level a nightwearer gains the ability to bind her twilight mantle soulmeld to her shoulders chakra, even if she cannot normally bind soulmelds to that chakra.

    Improved Low-Light Vision (Su)
    At 7th level a nightwearer gains improved low-light vision, allowing her to see four times as far in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. If she already has improved low-light vision, she gains the ability to see eight times as far in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination.

    Ebon Vision (Su)
    At 9th level a nightwearer gains the ability to see in magical darkness up to her darkvision range.

    Bind Midnight Robe
    At 10th level she gains the ability to bind her midnight robe soulmeld to her soul chakra, even if she cannot normally bind soulmelds to that chakra.



    Raiment of the Night
    Spoiler
    Show
    The raiment of the night is a set of three soulmelds: the dusk gloves, the twilight cloak, and the midnight vestments. These soulmelds are normally unavailable to incarnates, soulborn, and totemists, but can be accessed through either taking the Shape Soulmeld feat or entering the nightwearer prestige class.

    Dusk Gloves
    Descriptors: Darkness
    Chakra: Hands
    Saving Throw: See text

    Gloves, seemingly of a leather died the color of black grapes and embroidered at the cuffs with melon-colored thread, cover your hands tightly, leaving only your fingers bare. Only the subtly shifting and flickering colors reveal them to be anything more than they seem.

    While wearing dusk gloves, you may take 10 on Sleight of Hand checks even if threatened or distracted, including checks to conceal your spellcasting (whether as part of a Skill Trick or not).

    Essentia: You gain a an insight bonus to Sleight of Hand checks equal to +2 times the number of points of essentia you invest in your dusk gloves.

    Chakra Bind (Hands)
    Shadows dance about your hands and flicker like a candle in a draught. They lick at your arms and anything you hold

    You gain the ability to blind your enemies with shadows. As a swift action you may direct these shadows to a single creature within 30 feet plus 5 feet per point of essentia invested in your dusk gloves. The target must make a Will save or be blinded by the shadows enveloping its face. These shadows begin to dissipate at the beginning of its next turn, but remain long enough to grant all creatures concealment in relation to the target until the end of its turn.

    Twilight Cloak
    Descriptors: Darkness
    Chakra: Shoulders
    Saving Throw: None

    You shape incarnum into a cloak and mantle in an unearthly shade of dark, washed-out blue that cover your shoulders and chest. It fluters about you even when the air is still and obscures your position.

    While wearing the twilight cloak you gain a +4 insight bonus to Hide and Move Silently.

    Essentia: For each point of essentia you invest you gain a 5% miss chance. This miss chance stacks with any other miss chance (except those that do not stack with any other miss chance).

    Chakra Bind (Shoulders)
    Wisps of incarnum drift from your cloak and form signs of secrets, darkness, and misdirection in every language, even, apparently, those yet unspoken. Whenever you pass a shadow, it seems to merge with your cloak momentarily.

    While wearing a twilight cloak, you gain the ability to hide in plain sight—that is, you can use the Hide skill even while being observed and without cover or concealment so long as you are within 10 feet of a shadow. See the shadowdancer class feature. For each point of invested essentia you may be an additional 10 feet away from a shadow and still hide in plain sight.

    Midnight Vestments
    Descriptors: Darkness
    Chakra: Soul
    Saving Throw: None

    Incarnum congeals to form a skin-tight suit of blue-black energy. It covers you from collarbone to ankle and wrist and to everyone but you feels chill to the touch.

    Any time you act in a surprise round you may add the effect of the Enlarge Spell, Extend Spell, Reach Spell, Silent Spell, or Still Spell feats, or any Metamagic feat you have with a spell level adjustment of +1 or lower, to a Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, or [Darkness] spell without using a higher level slot or increasing its casting time.

    Essentia: Any enemy that is unaware of your presence or position (such as during a surprise round in which they do not act or when you have total concealment relative to them) and that fails a save to, takes damage (including nonlethal damage, ability damage, or ability drain) from, or is afflicted with a negative condition by an Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, or [Darkness] spell, spell-like ability, or soulmeld you cast suffers an additional affect for a number of rounds equal to each point of essentia you invest. A successful save (at midnight vestment's DC) reduces the duration to 1 round, or negates it if 1 or no points of essentia are invested.

    If it was affected by an Enchantment effect it takes a -3 penalty to attack rolls and AC as it is distracted by the confusing thoughts coursing through its mind, if it was affected by an Illusion effect it is sickened as the illusions disrupt its sense of balance, if it was affected by a Necromancy effect it is fatigued as chill energy saps its strength, and if it was affected by a [Darkness] effect it treats all creatures as having concealment and takes a -4 penalty on all spot checks.

    A creature immune to the effect of a spell, such as a creature affected by mindblank and subjected to a [Mind-Affecting] spell, is likewise immune to this effect.

    Chakra Bind (Soul)
    Your midnight vestments swirl with incandescent blue lights like myriads of stars in the night sky. When you cast a spell associated with the darker forces, they wink out for a moment before returning.

    You gain a +2 insight bonus to the DCs and caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance of any Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, or [Darkness] spells, spell-like abilities, and soulmelds you use. Each point of invested essentia increases this bonus by 1.
    Last edited by Jeff the Green; 2014-06-12 at 02:12 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    -Drop the "<br />" from the table under Base Attack<br />Bonus.
    -Maybe divide up the meldshaping and spellcasting progression with /. I dunno, makes it look a bit cleaner than "and".
    -Consider dropping a couple skills. It's not a really big thing, but as it stands you lose practically nothing from choosing this class over a straight Beguiler except Advanced Learning and some bonus feats.
    -Might just be me, but I don't care for the mechanic of being able to bind to chakra's that aren't open yet. Consider bumping the open chakra ability a little sooner to accommodate the melds.
    -Nothing big, but perhaps describe the appearance of the soulmelds a bit more. What do they look like when formed? Does the Twilight Cloak render a miss chance because you are sheathed in shadow?
    -What is the source of the miss chance for the cloak and are there any counters around it? Is it a concealment because you are difficult to see? Or perhaps cover as you are partially on the Plane of Shadow?
    -You are already getting some pretty big bonuses to the DC of spells from Cloaked Casting, maybe something else like increasing the realness of a shadow spell when disbelieved similar to the Shadowcraft Mage. Also might I ask why you included Necromancy spells? A standard entry into this class wouldn't have much in the way of necromancy spells available.
    -Fix the "[b]Essentia:[/i]" by changing the i to b in the robe description.

    I like the class overall. Feels like something is missing though. It's got a decent meld/spell progression and it progresses the Beguiler abilities, but aside from the three melds it has nothing of it's own. Maybe give it darkvision since it has the whole shadowy magic feel going for it.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    Generally speaking, a "theurge" class should progress both classes it requires levels in at each level, unless it gives features considerably stronger than that progression would be. It's a balance issue; the progression is already left 3-4 levels behind a single-class character and non-progression levels make the gap longer.


    That said, I really like the flavor of this class.


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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    -Consider dropping a couple skills. It's not a really big thing, but as it stands you lose practically nothing from choosing this class over a straight Beguiler except Advanced Learning and some bonus feats.
    Well, you're losing two casting levels and you're two levels behind on Cloaked Casting, so as-is I'm comfortable with it. However, I just realized that I need to give them access to [Incarnum] spells, so in exchange I'll probably drop some of the less tricksy rogue skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    -Nothing big, but perhaps describe the appearance of the soulmelds a bit more. What do they look like when formed? Does the Twilight Cloak render a miss chance because you are sheathed in shadow?
    I didn't say that? I didn't say that. I will add descriptions, and yes, you're wreathed in shadows, and not just illusion, so true seeing won't help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    -You are already getting some pretty big bonuses to the DC of spells from Cloaked Casting, maybe something else like increasing the realness of a shadow spell when disbelieved similar to the Shadowcraft Mage. Also might I ask why you included Necromancy spells? A standard entry into this class wouldn't have much in the way of necromancy spells available.
    That's a possibility, but the average Nightwearer won't have shadow conjuration. You're talking about Midnight Vestments's chakra bind? I'll reconsider.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    I like the class overall. Feels like something is missing though. It's got a decent meld/spell progression and it progresses the Beguiler abilities, but aside from the three melds it has nothing of it's own. Maybe give it darkvision since it has the whole shadowy magic feel going for it.
    Hmmm. You're right. I'll throw in LLV, DV, ILLV, and DV in magical darkness at odd levels.

    Oh, and thank you for pointing out the typographical errors.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belial_the_Leveler View Post
    Generally speaking, a "theurge" class should progress both classes it requires levels in at each level, unless it gives features considerably stronger than that progression would be. It's a balance issue; the progression is already left 3-4 levels behind a single-class character and non-progression levels make the gap longer.


    That said, I really like the flavor of this class.
    Thank you! You're four levels behind in incarnate, yes, but only 1 in beguiler. Since this is really beguiler + incarnum, not incarnate + illusion, I think that's okay. Do you think that's a problem? Should I make it full-casting but not full-meldshaping?
    Last edited by Jeff the Green; 2013-03-16 at 10:00 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    Casters already get all the love. Let some for Incarnum as well.


    By that I mean that whoever takes the class should have the option to choose. What I liked most about the Ultimate Magus and a couple other new Theurge classes is that they either boosted the weakest class more or they allowed the player to choose which class to boost.So, if you have to have single-progression levels in the class write them as;
    "+1 level progression in either Incarnum or Spellcasting class (choose one)"

    That a) allows the PC to choose what they want best/what fits and b) gives an extra customization option between users of the same class.


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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Belial_the_Leveler View Post
    Casters already get all the love. Let some for Incarnum as well.


    By that I mean that whoever takes the class should have the option to choose. What I liked most about the Ultimate Magus and a couple other new Theurge classes is that they either boosted the weakest class more or they allowed the player to choose which class to boost.So, if you have to have single-progression levels in the class write them as;
    "+1 level progression in either Incarnum or Spellcasting class (choose one)"

    That a) allows the PC to choose what they want best/what fits and b) gives an extra customization option between users of the same class.
    That's a good idea. I'll probably make it +1 in either meldshaping or casting, whichever is lower, and drop the lost meldshaping level at 5th. Since there's no way to artificially boost your meldshaper level like you can caster level, it will tend to boost incarnum use more than spellcasting.

    I'll also drop the casting requirement to 1st-level spells. Entry level's already constrained by skill points, and there isn't any real reason to disallow incarnum-centric builds.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
    Well, of course I'm paranoid about everything. Hell, with Jeff as DM, I'd be paranoid even if we were playing a game set in The Magic Kiddie Funland of Perfectly Flat Planes and Sugar Plums.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    It would be good also to specify which abilities are (su) an which (ex). I'm guessing most are (su), but being explicit would be nice.

    I really like Hidden Incarnum.

    This class could really use something at 7th level. As of right now, you are getting +1 to both classes, but nothing else, not even an improvement on saves or BAB.

    Possible suggestion for class features: something related to specific spells that beguilers get and being able to give them some benefit with incarnum? One obvious thing for example would be being able to pump in incarnum into your sleep spell to make its maximum hit die go up. Or maybe something that makes Disguise Self work better?
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    It would be good also to specify which abilities are (su) an which (ex). I'm guessing most are (su), but being explicit would be nice.
    Actually, most are Ex. or unspecified ("natural" I think they're called, like spellcasting), but I'll do that.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    This class could really use something at 7th level. As of right now, you are getting +1 to both classes, but nothing else, not even an improvement on saves or BAB.
    Yep, I'm changing that. In the new revision (coming this week, I hope), you get ILLV. Not much, but better than a dead level.

    Quote Originally Posted by JoshuaZ View Post
    Possible suggestion for class features: something related to specific spells that beguilers get and being able to give them some benefit with incarnum? One obvious thing for example would be being able to pump in incarnum into your sleep spell to make its maximum hit die go up. Or maybe something that makes Disguise Self work better?
    Well, there are already sleep spells you can pick through advanced learning or somesuch that affect more creatures, and Midnight Vestments boost almost all of your spells. I'm also giving them access to [Incarnum] spells, since I realized I required a feat allowing them to cast them, but they never get them on their spell list.

    Also, there are really too many ways to play a beguiler to make a class feature specific to one or two spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Waker View Post
    Also might I ask why you included Necromancy spells? A standard entry into this class wouldn't have much in the way of necromancy spells available.
    I forgot to answer this. While you pretty much have to be a beguiler to get in and they don't get any Necromancy spells, you can get the soulmelds with the Shape Soulmeld feat, in the same way a Totemist could get a Fellmist Robe. So most other sneaky meldshapers might want to pick them up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lateral View Post
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    Yep, I'm changing that. In the new revision (coming this week, I hope), you get ILLV. Not much, but better than a dead level.
    Yes, that would be nice.

    Well, there are already sleep spells you can pick through advanced learning or somesuch that affect more creatures, and Midnight Vestments boost almost all of your spells. I'm also giving them access to [Incarnum] spells, since I realized I required a feat allowing them to cast them, but they never get them on their spell list.

    Also, there are really too many ways to play a beguiler to make a class feature specific to one or two spells.
    That's a good point. And they already have a fair number of options, so having them select from a large set of spell improvement options would be time consuming and not ideal. I'm convinced. Better vision should be enough anyways.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    I am finally (maybe, hopefully, please-TMO-I-like-Rook-and-don't-want-to-shove-him-in-a-drawer-ly) getting a chance to play this in a real game rather than just test encounters. In pre-game discussions with the DM we've worked out some rather good changes to it.

    • We changed the prerequisites slightly. Previously it required Incarnum Spellshaping and Midnight Metamagic (which has a hidden tax of a metamagic feat). I'd stupidly built a human with two flaws for the tests, so it didn't occur to me until I built a non-human with a single flaw (well, no flaws and 32 instead of 34 pointbuy) that it's impossible to enter normally at level 6 that way as <metamagic>, IS, and MM eat your feats a levels 1, 3, and 6. So now it's "Incarnum Spellshaping or Midnight Metamagic." I decided the relative weakness of IS compared to MM and its fact that it's probably useless for ~4 levels early on balances it against the fact that MM effectively takes up two feat slots. My character's taking IS, both because the DM suggested it and because metamagic on a spontaneous caster is a pain unless you work on it.
    • Hidden Incarnum was changed to note that once you attack with your soulmeld it becomes visible (though you can return it to invisibility immediately afterward) and that effects such as fellmist robe that require the soulmeld to be seen don't function while it's hidden.
    • Midnight Vestment's essentia ability was changed significantly. Previously it reduced creatures' initiative if you hit them with an Enchantment, Illusion, Necromancy, or [Darkness] effect during a surprise round. We decided this was both too powerful and too circumstantial, which is bad design. I changed it so that it triggers if you use such an effect on a creature unaware of your presence and position and makes them take penalties or miss chances or be sickened or fatigued, depending on the specific effect, for <essentia> rounds or 1 (0 with 1 or no essentia) on a save.
    • This is not included above because I'm not yet convinced it's necessary, but we're reducing the skill points to 4+Int/level. In any case the reduction is far from crippling for an Intelligence-focused class and keeping it the same is unlikely to upset balance.


    Also, a note since it caused some confusion: twilight cloak's essentia ability is a miss chance, not concealment, and so does not negate precision damage or allow hiding.
    Last edited by Jeff the Green; 2013-09-04 at 04:07 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    This is awesome.

    The fluff makes it feel almost like the lantern corp fluff. I can't explain or put my finger on it but it reminds me of that.

    I never thought of it before but Incarnum could be a way to emulate the lanterns...

    But on topic...

    Have you thought about giving it two good saves? I know it is a casting/meldshaper theurge but I can't help but think that a good reflex save goes thematically with this PrC. A lot of the abilities are based on being sneaky plus it shouldn't overpower the class since reflex is the "weakest" save.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Perseus View Post
    This is awesome.
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perseus View Post
    Have you thought about giving it two good saves? I know it is a casting/meldshaper theurge but I can't help but think that a good reflex save goes thematically with this PrC. A lot of the abilities are based on being sneaky plus it shouldn't overpower the class since reflex is the "weakest" save.
    I have, but I'm hesitant to add on a good Reflex save. Neither beguilers nor incarnates have a good Reflex save, and though totemists do, I have a hard time imagining a totemist being interested in this class. The only theurge class I can think of that adds a good save neither class has is Jade Phoenix Mage, and even then only if you enter as a caster/swordsage.

    Also, the class drops the more acrobatic skills from the beguiler list. (Only Tumble remains.) Given that, it seems a poor fit, actually.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    I think I am going to use this for a character in a new campaign. Pretty much perfect if I adapt it to psionics instead of casting (which should be pretty seamless with a bit of a refluff of the beguiler stuff or just a switch to something from Psy Rogue, maybe). Hmm, I wonder if Sneak Attack would be balanced....

    Anyway, props on (darkness) melds. The book says it's a descriptor for melds, then promptly all but ignores it.

    EDIT: Actually, as my build is incarnum-centric, I will likely aim for an adaptation in which there are more binds unlocked, drop the binder stuff (since it's psionics), and that's probably it. I'm hoping to eke out an entry as a psywar/incarnate for a campaign starting at 10th. It'll be a quasi-npc for periods when I DM, but may come out of hiding when others have the chair, so I should be able to get by with a fairly low-op build to do support and a bit with skills. Oh, and utility healing via Expanded Knowledge, lol. Anyway, very nice PrC.
    Last edited by Phelix-Mu; 2014-10-07 at 12:34 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu View Post
    I think I am going to use this for a character in a new campaign. Pretty much perfect if I adapt it to psionics instead of casting (which should be pretty seamless with a bit of a refluff of the beguiler stuff or just a switch to something from Psy Rogue, maybe). Hmm, I wonder if Sneak Attack would be balanced....
    Glad to hear it.

    And yes, you could probably make it work well with Psychic Rogue. Actually, I think I said something about this in the refluffing thread. Let me dig it up...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff the Green View Post
    (If you particularly want to be psychic rather than magical it wouldn't be too hard to modify. Progress Sneak Attack instead of Cloaked Casting, require Midnight Augmentation instead of Incarnum Spellshaping or Midnight Metamagic, and maybe give the soul manifester's psionic investment instead of [Incarnum] spells as bonus spells. The hardest part would be figuring out the proper conversion for Midnight Vestments.)
    There we go. Sometimes when I go back and read what I suggest I have to just say "What? No. Past-me is an idiot," but I still think that's pretty useable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu View Post
    Anyway, props on (darkness) melds. The book says it's a descriptor for melds, then promptly all but ignores it.
    There's Shadow Mantle. But yeah, it's not a common descriptor. Also, interesting interaction I just discovered. (...Yes, I discovered something in my own homebrew. Don't give me that look.) Since Dusk Gloves are a [Darkness] soulmeld, they trigger Midnight Vestments' Essentia effect. It's minor, but kind of cool.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phelix-Mu View Post
    EDIT: Actually, as my build is incarnum-centric, I will likely aim for an adaptation in which there are more binds unlocked, drop the binder stuff (since it's psionics), and that's probably it. I'm hoping to eke out an entry as a psywar/incarnate for a campaign starting at 10th. It'll be a quasi-npc for periods when I DM, but may come out of hiding when others have the chair, so I should be able to get by with a fairly low-op build to do support and a bit with skills. Oh, and utility healing via Expanded Knowledge, lol. Anyway, very nice PrC.
    If you want to go Incarnum-focus, change it from granting the chakra binds to progressing chakra binds. Strip out the cloaked casting and incarnum magic, and instead of getting the ability to bind the Raiment early, make it so you can bind them without it taking up a bind slot. So if you have 3 binds and are level 6, you could bind Bluesteel Bracers, Thunderstep Boots, and Shedu Crown (because those are the only melds in the right slots I can think of right now), plus Dusk Gloves and Twilight Cloak.

    I do think this is a good class for when you want something with lots of fiddly bits (like me because I'm ADD and rapidly start hating my characters if I'm doing the same thing more than three rounds a day) but don't want to overshadow low-op party members. You still have spells, but you're a couple levels behind. You have incarnum, but the DCs probably aren't great and your progression is a bit behind. You're a great skill monkey, though, and you always have something you can do. (Against that afformentioned Corrupture I used incarnum arc and then just focused on finding a firing solution.)



    Oh, huh. I forgot to specify what kind of save Midnight Vestments forces. Ideas?
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  15. - Top - End - #15
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] I shall wear midnight: Beguiler/Incarnum theurge (PEACH)

    I should be finishing my psionic adaptation of this in the next couple of days and might even post a brief sketch (though it's much as you outlined). Your new melds and core chassis here have been very helpful in my character designing. Kudos.

    And some day I will get around to critiquing your haematurge. Now that Exalted is over, D&D is the center of my hobby-life once again!
    In my dreams, I am currently a druid 20/wizard 10/arcane hierophant 10/warshaper 5. Actually, after giving birth to a galaxy by splitting a black hole, level is no longer relevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Keledrath View Post
    I've never been able to put my finger on how to describe you Phelix, but I think I have an idea now.

    You're Tippy's fluffy cousin...

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