rolling for ability scores, what do you do

[Saito Takuji]

either as a GM, or a player. when generating new characters what ways have you seen/done for rolling for stats

obviously the standard 3d6,or 4d6 drop lowest, sometimes with re-rolling ones or 2's even

but any more unusual stuff, like 3d6+6, drop the lowest, or something mabey involving other dice?

[NikitaDarkstar]

I've heard of people rolling 2d6+6 or 1d10+8 before. My normal group mainly does either 5d6 or 4d6 (depending on the power level we want XD), re-roll 1's and drop the lowest.

[Hylas]

either as a GM, or a player. when generating new characters what ways have you seen/done for rolling for stats

obviously the standard 3d6,or 4d6 drop lowest, sometimes with re-rolling ones or 2's even

but any more unusual stuff, like 3d6+6, drop the lowest, or something mabey involving other dice?

27-25-23.
Generate 3 stats using whatever method you like best.
Then do 27 - (any rolled stat) = your 4th stat.
25 - (any remaining rolled stat) = your 5th stat.
23 - (final rolled stat) = your 6th stat.
Then you add +2 to any stat as long as it doesn't exceed 18 (because you're 'rolling' it and 3d6 can't exceed 18).

Pros: You get three fun odd-numbered stats and the total stat bonuses all add up to the same total (in this case, it'll be +7 for 3.5 and +8 for Pathfinder) so no one is "worse off" than any other player. You can generally get a 17 or 18 no matter what.

Cons: Not as fair to MAD characters as point-buy due to its linear nature, but being MAD is its own special problem. You will also generally always have a stat at 10 or below, which can be either a pro or a con depending on who you ask.

The power level of the rolling system can be changed by changing what numbers you use (such as 29-27-25 or 27-27-27) or giving out more +2s.

[Jay R]

Back in OD&D, when the rule was 3d6, I would use 3d6, but you can read either the top or the bottom of all the dice. This is equivalent to subtracting each score from 21. This eliminates the possibility of a bad set of rolls, since a bad set of rolls can be turned into a good set, without making the odds of an incredibly good set too high.

[CoffeeIncluded]

I personally don't roll, I use 32 point buy. It makes things much more fair.

[Lord Torath]

Here's an extensive analysis of the various methods of creating ability scores: Runecarver

[BlckDv]

For 2nd Ed era folks, don't forget Dark Sun: 5d4

[Slipperychicken]

Point-buy. Sometimes by class tier.

Because when you claim to like the uncertainty... but also roll more than 3d6, and have houserules to turn bad rolls into good ones, and to even inter-player distributions of good scores, you really should stop kidding yourself.

[Man on Fire]

Rolls make much more banalced characters. Sorry, but D&D and Pathfinder are supposed to be based on fantasy, the msot classical, lot of times pulpy, one. And the characters are supposed to be based on heroes of such stories, as well as legends and myths. Tell me what is Aragorn's dump stat. Or Gandalf's. Or Conan's? or Heracles'? Or lancelot's? Or Guts? Even at what they are described a beign weak they still are at worst at level of common folks. When everybody min-max themselves to the point of having "useless" stats at ridiculussly low levels this just falls apart. With rolling you are more likely to have your lowest stat at reasonable level.

[Ozfer]

My group allows you to choose between a 25 point buy, or 4D6 drop the lowest, and you can reroll one set. This way, people who like the risk can do that, and people who don't can go with point buy.

[Remmirath]

When starting anywhere between first and twentieth level, I go with rolling 4d6 and dropping the lowest (with optional rearranging). Sometimes, if the players are playing only one character, I'll also let them roll three sets and pick the one they like best.

For one shot games, especially one shot 1st edition games, I'll sometimes go with rolling 3d6 and taking them in order.

And then, for my usual group's current game, where all the characters are quite well into epic levels, we go with just choosing whatever starting stat values between 3 and 18 we want -- none of us in the group are the type to pick all 18s or some such, and it's a rare thing that a character would make it to that high level without having at least a decent starting array of stats.

[Slipperychicken]

And the characters are supposed to be based on heroes of such stories, as well as legends and myths. Tell me what is Aragorn's dump stat. Or Gandalf's. Or Conan's? or Heracles'? Or lancelot's? Or Guts?

"Min-maxed" characters in fiction can be very interesting and compelling.

The Hulk/Bruce Banner exemplify this. Banner is a genius, but not strong at all. The Hulk is extremely strong, but also dumb as a sack of hammers, barely able to articulate short sentences.

The hobbits (frodo, sam, bilbo, etc) are portrayed as agile, sneaky, good with rocks (Dex), but don't have very good odds in a straight-up fight (poor Str, Con), trying to avoid combat, and falling in battle where the rest of the fellowship barely take a scratch. Frodo gets his behind handed to him by Gollum, Shelob, and the ring-wraiths, needing others to bail him out each time.

IIRC (stopped reading the series a while ago), Artemis Fowl is a true genius, but needs Butler (his bodyguard) to do pretty much all his heavy lifting, and is relatively helpless in any kind of fight.

And don't forget, an 8 in an ability score is functionally indistinguishable from a 10. You're really never going to notice being 5% less likely to do something correctly. Gandalf or Gimli could well have had 8's in Dexterity.

[Yora]

Whenever possible in any way, get point buy.

[ArcturusV]

I run hardcore. 3d6, in order, is fine by me. Also "Stat Training" is usually something I allow, old style where you can choose only two stats. Sacrifice two points in one stat to add one point in the other stat.

Then again, I'm also playing an arcane character in the 3.5 campaign I just started who has a 4 int, and I didn't even blink at that or take the Reroll I was allowed. And not just because all my other stats were amazing either. My modifiers ended up equaling +1 in total.

Another method I've tried before, that has really annoyed the guys with Luck Dice...

Stats start at 10. Roll 1d6 6 times. Three of those numbers get added to one stat each, three of them get subtracted from one stat each. If you wanted a more high power game you could alter the number added/subtracted to 4/2, or 5/1, or let them keep all six. But I ran 3/3 and was happy with it.

... the amount of cursing from the normally "Lucky" guy in the game I ran, who got two 6s and four 5s was quite high. So not everyone was happy with it. Most of the party was though as they got to dump things like 1s and 2s and keep 3s and 4s.

[Seharvepernfan]

I just give my players the elite array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.

95% of all NPCs in the world have the average array: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8.

[Gnome Alone]

Me group usually does 4d6 drop lowest reroll 1s, but I kinda like the "organic" one where you roll 4d6 drop lowest in order, switch any two and reroll one. Get some interesting arrays that way.

27-25-23 sounds awesome though, I'll have to try that.

[Jacob.Tyr]

I'll second the 27-25-23, +2 to one stat. It feels more natural and gives you more interesting stats than point buy, and still involves dice while being balanced.

Granted I also like throwing in 29-27-25 for really MAD and low tier classes and 25-23-23 for SAD high tiers.

Building a 6X6 array of 4d6 drop lowest and letting the players choose any row or column is also fun imo. Have them take turns rolling rows and then let them use whichever row/column they like keeps them involved as well.

[Jack of Spades]

Well, you shuffle a 54-card poker deck, cut it, and draw 12 cards. Drop 2 cards of your that aren't deuces or jokers. Suit is 1-4 dice in reverse alphabetical order, face is die type. Joker means your character has a Mysterious Past from a table.

...You know, like the rules say.

*Flies away on a cloud of non-game-specific-forum snark*

But really, I tend to enjoy just about anything that isn't straight point buy.

[ArcturusV]

I'm with you on that Jack of Spades. I don't like point buys. I find it creates strange things.

[Almaseti]

I'm gonna try the 4d6b3, reroll one set and switch two method next time I run a game. It looks like it would be a good balance between randomness and player agency.

[BudgetDM]

Normally I do point buy, but when I do roll for stats it's 3d6 in order. If it's useless[1] you can chuck it all and start over, with in reason[2].

[1]As defined by the player.
[2]As defined by the me.

[Gavinfoxx]

Well, you shuffle a 54-card poker deck, cut it, and draw 12 cards. Drop 2 cards of your that aren't deuces or jokers. Suit is 1-4 dice in reverse alphabetical order, face is die type. Joker means your character has a Mysterious Past from a table.

...You know, like the rules say.

*Flies away on a cloud of non-game-specific-forum snark*

But really, I tend to enjoy just about anything that isn't straight point buy.

Let me tell you about my Huckster!

[Jack of Spades]

I just realized, I actually have a relevant answer and everything!

In the group I've played most with, we did 4d6, drop the lowest, 7 times, and dropped the lowest ability score. There may have been a reroll-1's in there, but that was probably Deathwatch.

The reason I don't like point-buy is because it gives the player too much control over what they build. Life is unfair, and I like that unfairness to be represented by the cruelty of random or semi-random attribute rolling. Being one who enjoys writing and improv voraciously, there's nothing I love more than a good creative constraint. I'd play a system that makes me roll up every aspect of a character randomly... In fact, I think I have one of those lying around.

Let me tell you about my Huckster!

This guy right here knows about good games

[Lappy9001]

I've never been a fan of point buy, it's super boring.

We usually do normal roll stuff (6d6, reroll 1's) or (7d6, drop lowest dice) usually with up to 4 total grouped rolls. One time we did 6d6 reroll 1's and 2's. It was awesome.

We also always get 1 reroll for HP each level. Makes things better 100% of the time.

[ArcturusV]

I do completely random characters for Dark Heresy... which is why I've gotten "Hiver Scum" about 80% of the time. But yeah, I do it completely random if I can too. I think RIFTS and another Palladium RPG (Mutants and Superpowers or something?) had completely random character generation options. And I ran with them.

And yes, exactly the reason I don't like point buy. You end up with almost everyone being someone who has average stats, a maxed stat, and higher normals in their second most important stat. Or you end up with someone taking flaws and adding points by jacking their Dump Stat to recockulous levels that should realistically be almost unplayable in order to max out 3 different stats.

And sometimes my best RPing has come around as a result of completely random rolls and myself going "... what does this roll actually mean...?". In ways that I never would have come up with if I did point buys.

[Lappy9001]

I do completely random characters for Dark Heresy... which is why I've gotten "Hiver Scum" about 80% of the time. But yeah, I do it completely random if I can too. I think RIFTS and another Palladium RPG (Mutants and Superpowers or something?) had completely random character generation options. And I ran with them.

And yes, exactly the reason I don't like point buy. You end up with almost everyone being someone who has average stats, a maxed stat, and higher normals in their second most important stat. Or you end up with someone taking flaws and adding points by jacking their Dump Stat to recockulous levels that should realistically be almost unplayable in order to max out 3 different stats.

And sometimes my best RPing has come around as a result of completely random rolls and myself going "... what does this roll actually mean...?". In ways that I never would have come up with if I did point buys.

This'll give you beautiful results sometimes. One of my favorite characters had 18 Cha, 16 Wis, and 6 Int (granted, there were some racial bonuses/penalties from homebrew) and he was a blast to roleplay.

Point Buy very often leaves everyone feeling the same.

[PersonMan]

With rolling you are more likely to have your lowest stat at reasonable level.

Point buy: lowest stat, before racial modifiers, is 8.

Rolling: lowest stat, before racial modifiers, is 3.

I've rolled plenty of stat arrays with 4s, 5s and 6s. The 6 was actually welcome as it fit the character concept really well, but otherwise?

Point buy = more reasonable stats.
Rolling = more "ok, so I have two 18s, a 4, a 15, an 8 and a 13. How does this fit together?"

--

I'd counter the LotR party question with:

Yes, they all have reasonable stats. They had a good point buy. With rolls, Gandalf might have ended up with 2 Strength (remember old age!) and Frodo 18 Strength but only 4 Constitution.


--

More generally, I like Point Buy when I have a concept I want to play that should have or needs X stats, if the amount is high enough for me to fulfill that, but if I want to join a game and don't have a concept, rolls can be a ton of fun.

[Rhynn]

3d6 in order, Fox only, Final Destination.

And one randomly stat-increasing/decreasing magic fountain in every dungeon.

Naw, really, I'm good with Method II or Method IV. Roll 3d6 twice, pick one; either go in order (II) or assign them as desired (IV).

AD&D 2E, obviously. Funny thing, for all that some grognards complain about 2E ruining AD&D, it was much stricter about rolling your characteristics than AD&D 1E. 1E insisted that PCs should have great stats, and 1E had the completely crazy class-specific "roll 8d6 keep 3 for Str, 6d6 keep 3 for Con" methods that guaranteed multiple 16+ scores. AD&D 2E insisted that 15 was a high score, you didn't need high scores, and everything other than 3d6 in order was an optional method you should be careful about using.

For 2nd Ed era folks, don't forget Dark Sun: 5d4

Technically, the default was 6d4, drop the lowest.

Rolling = more "ok, so I have two 18s, a 4, a 15, an 8 and a 13. How does this fit together?"

That would make an awesome... almost any character.

You're a clumsy paladin. You're an enormous but dumb fighter. You're a frail but mighty wizard. You're a rogue with a really nasty disposition. And so on. Fitting the scores together often suggests something about the character.

[ArcturusV]

Well the thing I did when I rolled similar (But worse, no 18s) for me was a Sorcerer/Fighter mix. With 4 Int.

[Exediron]

Last time I was part of one of these threads it turned into an argument on the subject of whether point-buy or rolled stats gives greater freedom of character creation. So just as a precaution I won't voice any real opinion here and just the facts:

Main Game: Players pick stats, as Remmirath described.
Most Other Games: 4d6, drop lowest - re-roll if the result contains nothing with a decent bonus.
One-Off or First Ed: 3d6 in order.