Paladin Campaign!

[Nettlekid]

I posted a few weeks ago about an all-Bard one-shot campaign that I was planning, and I'm pleased to say that it went over very well. So well, in fact, that people have expressed interest in another strange and entertaining one-shot campaign. Because of a spectacle involving a couple of evil characters in one of our other campaigns playing up a "Burn the witch! Heathen!" sort of role and throwing everyone into hysterics, the general consensus is that a Paladin campaign could be entertaining.

So, to brainstorm, what kind of setting, plot, and challenges might an all-Paladin party have? I certainly plan to throw in a couple of moral challenges, in the vein of "kill one person to save two people" sort of thing. But that's a little dry, and I want plenty of chances to make it exciting. The Bard campaign was lots of chatting and diplomacy, going about the city and making connections in an attempt to get invitations to the royal gala. Since Paladins are very Smite first, ask questions later, and that's the personality that I think the players want to play up, it would be quite different from happy-go-lucky Bards.

I think I'll make it level 10, or maybe level 12. 12 might be good for the feat. Although I call it a Paladin campaign, I might be open to letting people be any sort of "templar" class, be it a Paladin, Knight, Crusader, or something like that. What are some good Paladin prestige classes? I like Pious Templar and Hellreaver, Knight Protector isn't too strong but it's flavorful, and Gray Guard is cool and might make a good BBEG for this one-shot or be the edgy guy who pushes things too far.

So yeah, suggestions appreciated. I'm totally open for random ideas.

[Ubercaledor]

I can see this being a heap of fun! An all-paladin party seems like the most logical way of including paladins.

What other way to play it than an epic quest to slay evil.

I would be thinking of something like a Grail Quest would be pretty awesome, or even just lift the plot straight from Monty Python's the Holy Grail. In fact, I think I'm going to go do that right now.

The dreaded Big Sharp +5 Vorpal Teeth, The Black Knight with persisted Delay Death, the laughs go on forever.

[Chaosvii7]

Another good option for paladin prestige classes is the Knight of the Chalice, which is great at fighting demons. Cavaliers could be a good option, depending on whether or not they'll be doing n awful lot of adventuring in cramped spaces(most likely not?), and for those who enjoy the mounted aspects of Paladinhood.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Prestige Paladin is a pretty good Paladin Prestige Class. If you loosen the entry requrements, or allow the alt-alignment variants to be converted to prestige form, you can have quite a varied bunch on your hands.

[Nettlekid]

Hmm, a quest to retrieve a powerful holy item before a villain gets his claws on it. I like it! The group will probably enjoy the idea of galloping away on their special mounts, over crags and plains. And it gives a chance to find things on the journey.

Ooh, Knight of the Chalice is pretty good, but it's awfully specific. Since this is just a one-shot I wouldn't want to suggest anything that won't get use, but then again it also means I can specifically give them enemies that they will get to be good against.

Funnily enough, I actually don't want all that much diversity. In a normal party that would be good, but since this is mainly for laughs we all like the sound of a bunch of enthusiastic warriors clomping around, screaming about evil. I'm even hesitant to use the Paladin of Freedom, since there's something laughable about a Lawful Good to the Extreme party.

I think there will be four people, so I'll have them each sent for by a king of a central land, calling to the North, South, East and West. And if it's not too cheesy, I might give each some sort of elemental power. Maybe custom items to allow Gust of Wind for Air, Water Breathing/Swim for Water, Stone Shape for Earth, and Kelgore's Fire Bolt for Fire. If we get a fifth, they can be Heart. And I can give them...maybe Iron Heart Surge? Which is strong and offsets the lameness of being Heart.

What sort of enemies would be good for enthusiastic Paladins to face? Classic baddies like goblins, orcs, beholders, and mind flayers? Something like a dragon or a lich is too much for a one-shot.

[Phippster]

If we get a fifth, they can be Heart.

Only if at the very end they combine into a level 20 Druid at the end of the adventure to slay an Oil Dragon or something.

[Sgt. Cookie]

I'd still recomend Prestige Paladin as-is, even if you restrict them to Cleric as a Base Class, it is MUCH stronger than normal Paladin, so even more hilarity will ensue.

[Humble Master]

Maybe put some stuff in about the Paladin code and them having to adhere to it despite difficult circumstances?

[Nettlekid]

Well of course I intend to have plenty of things like that. I'm brainstorming for more specific instances. What plights and perils could they run into that forces difficult choices in their code?

[GoatBoy]

A friend of mine ran a successful all-Paladin Pathfinder game a while back. It took place in the Ravenloft campaign setting, though I didn't play in it and I'm not familiar enough with the setting to get into the details. Still, a villain who is very dark, very powerful, and very obviously evil will probably suit the shining-beacon-of-hope persona of the paladin best.

My friend ran it as a gestalt game, where everyone had paladin on one "side" and whatever they wanted (with alignment restrictions) on the other. Also, I believe some players chose lawful good clerics or inquisitors. Since paladins aren't the most versatile class, and since the personality and motivations of lawful good divine-based classes run pretty parallel, this will help your party keep from stepping into roadblocks like lack of healing or ranged support.

If you still insist on paladins only, the Pathfinder paladin archetypes would allow for some functional variation.

"All paladin" doesn't necessarily lead to "all serious," though, as the tendency for a pair of his players to re-enact the whole of the Team Rocket introductory speech will attest.

[JusticeZero]

I actually prefer to keep paladins choices relatively clearcut, even if it might be inconvenient to do the right thing.

Hard moral decisions are basically just puzzles that inflict save-or-suck with no save. "Figure out what your GM is thinking! If you guess wrong, you will be neutered till you can get an atonement spell lol!" Plus, there's a pretty cheap magic item that lets them check each action beforehand.

PF has a variety of variant paladin builds, if you use it. Archer paladins, defense paladins, healing paladins, etc. Enough to fill out a variety of roles in the party.

[ArcturusV]

Well, depending on how your players can handle it... I always liked the Redemption thing as a possible plot hook for an oathsworn Good Guy (like a Paladin). You need to make sure that it isn't Fall Bait, this means that whatever they are redeeming, HONESTLY is trying to redeem, and is clearly attempting to do so.

Reasons are a good thing for this. Pull out strong motivations for this obviously evil thing to redeem.

Having the party be that redemptionist's "Sponsor" of a sort leads to obvious plot hooks. It can also play up a societal integration sort of thing. LIke... in your setting Orcs are seen as irredeemably evil creatures, who are the bane of all civilized societies they border, etc.

Well, historical event X happens (Maybe the first part of the adventure even if you're running a fairly long One Shot), where the gap between cultures and races is bridged. Your order of Paladins does something to save the orcs from a worse threat of clear superior evil. So you have a point after that where some Orcs, clearly impressed, want to learn your paladin's ways. Maybe one young NPC hears "the call" of Paladinhood, etc. You then have a series of scenes/events related to trying to cleanse the taint of their evil culture off those orcs that are interested in Redemption (Atonement: Society cast!), or to prepare the young Orc for Paladinhood.

[Ardantis]

BEST way to challenge Paladin morality-

Make their allies loose in morals and questionably competent. The Paladin team's frustration at the weaknesses of their allies' susceptibility for wine, women, and the call of the One Ring drives the plot, the humor, and the point.

Also, make the evil so horribly evil that they'll bicker over how to be the MOST evil- like cut off his head, or remove his tongue first while he's still alive?

What I'm saying is, don't just give the paladin team difficult choices...

TWIST THE KNIFE

and make them uncomfortable!

[Eldest]

I'm actually going to disagree with everyone crying for moral issues: Paladins are the Big Damn Hero class (tm), and so don't try for shades of grey. Instead, go for the hero moments that, sure, they have to suffer from: refusing to take a bribe for silence, and having to fight their way out of someplace. Fighting through a cult to prevent the sacrifice of an innocent man/woman to horrific things. A quest for the friggin' Holy Grail. But don't try for moral scorched earth with the ONE CLASS that is required to be the good guy. It's just cruel and pointless.

[MirddinEmris]

I love the idea of a Big Quest for Holy Grail but i think you should add some moral dillemas, after all, it is a main shtick of a paladin class (and archetype). Something akin to "Help people and risk to lose a fresh lead for you quest object or ignore them and follow it" and of course you should reward them in some way for making hard choices, but no always and not in such way to negate their choice.

[dascarletm]

I'm actually going to disagree with everyone crying for moral issues: Paladins are the Big Damn Hero class (tm), and so don't try for shades of grey. Instead, go for the hero moments that, sure, they have to suffer from: refusing to take a bribe for silence, and having to fight their way out of someplace. Fighting through a cult to prevent the sacrifice of an innocent man/woman to horrific things. A quest for the friggin' Holy Grail. But don't try for moral scorched earth with the ONE CLASS that is required to be the good guy. It's just cruel and pointless.

It depends. I think moral dilemmas are fine, but it depends on the DM. When I played a paladin, or was a paladin, moral dilemas were a non-issue. There isn't any situation that should make a paladin always lose his powers if you keep to the code. It may put you in extra harm or even get a character killed in your paladin party, but if you are the hero you should be willing to put your life on the line.

[Killer Angel]

So, to brainstorm, what kind of setting, plot, and challenges might an all-Paladin party have? I certainly plan to throw in a couple of moral challenges, in the vein of "kill one person to save two people" sort of thing.

Be very careful with this, and avoid to force them to choose the "lesser evil". It could end with unpleasant results, imo it would be better to use something ala "these (misled?) people are doing very questionable things, even if they're convinced they're acting for the greater good" and see how they handle the thing.

[kardar233]

Lots of people have warned about the "guess the DM's moral preference" game, so here's my advice:

Scrap the standard Paladin's code and have each player come up with a personalized one based on their character's convictions. This puts the question of "did I fall?" back on the player, as it's their job to justify their actions as part of their characters' code. This also allows for some intra-party ambiguity as their codes may not agree on a course of action. In this case, don't penalize the characters whose opinions didn't win out; they shouldn't be punished for trying.

[ArcturusV]

Eh. I'm kinda with Eldest on this one. When you're playing up with a Paladin, the choice should never be between two evils. You leave those things for someone who is neutral. Choosing between Evils is actually more of a Neutral character thing, and trying to lead them down the path of corruption due to their lack of commitment and the ease with which they will do something evil "For the right cause"... and steadily lowering the threshold of "right cause" until they actually are in danger of losing their soul and being evil.

But Paladins? Nah. I'd go the other way. Your moral dilemma shouldn't be "Lesser of Two Evils.". What it SHOULD be, ideally, in a way that's fun for Paladins and not Fighters without Bonus Feats...

Is choosing between what is RIGHT, and what is EASY.

This is why I mentioned the Redemption thing. Redemption is the Right thing to do. If you can take something that is typically evil, and turn it good? That's about the greatest victory you can have for Good. If a Paladin could charge into Hell, and through his silvered tongue and good deeds turn Asmodeus into a Celestial being of Goodness? That would be their ultimate coup for Good. Much more so than just killing everything in the nine hells.

It's easy to just smite and go around dispensing judgement on the tip of a sword. It's much harder to realize that you shouldn't necessarily default to that, and that there is a better way to do it. The better way is frustrating, it's difficult. You walk around with a reformed Succubus (Or one in process of reforming), you know you got to defend her against things like other Paladins who might want to smite her. Dispel misconceptions about her. Prove you're not actually her mind puppets of evil. Show her the rewards of changing her behavior, going from what is Easy, to what is Good, and the eventual peace and serenity she might find. Etc.

And if they fail redeeming something and smite it? Well they were still smiting evil. They don't fall. But they have failed to accomplish a greater good.

That's the sort of line I like to see out of Paladins, and the choices I think make for better games than something as silly and trappish as choosing evils, prisoner dilemmas, etc.

[Zerter]

An experienced player should have no problem not falling, even with difficult decisions and without gimmicks like that item that warns you. This does come with some requirements.

The DM should be clear on what the code is. If a choice is roughly 50/50 then going either way should be fine assuming the Paladin thinks it through.

[Ardantis]

Ok, FIIIINE, I agree with Eldest and to a different degree Arcturus V.

In a gothic or horror campaign, it is fun and devilishly rewarding to see Paladins make bad choices which negatively impact their alignment and level of holiness.

HOWAYVER

In a game full of paladins, in which the viewers (players) IDENTIFY with those characters, yeah, you're talking:

- Heroic Moments
- Good vs. Easy
- Morally weak(er) allies
- Bad bad guys (even lovable bad guys)

There is a lot of space for humanity in there, but it's in the framework of "we're the good guys, we know it, and we might disappoint but we won't mess up"

[Fouredged Sword]

Cool idea.

Suggested party

Crusader 20
Cleric X / PRC Paladin X
Paladin 2 / Bard x / Sublime Chord X (devoted performer to allow for lawful alignment), Planer Touchstone to get trapfinding.
Paladin 2 / Sorcerer x / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion

There, Tank, Skillmonkey, Divine Caster, Arcane Caster.

All paladins.