Rules lite/light High fantasy system.

[Mystic Muse]

Does anybody know of a good rules light high fantasy system? My players like D&D, but I don't think they like the rules aspect much. Given that Pathfinder is not a particularly good system for people who don't want to put a ton of effort into learning the rules, I was hoping you guys could help me find a d20 system (Preferably free or with a demo) that's fairly rules light, if possible.

[Grod_The_Giant]

There are a bunch of D&D retro-clones that people always seem to recommend in threads like this. If you don't mind getting away from d20, the Dresden Files RPG is pretty light, works pretty well, and is pretty easy to adapt to high fantasy. (Change Driving to Ride, Guns to Bows, and drop the Lawbreaker stunts system and you're good to go).

[Grac]

Microlite20 would be a good place to start. It boils down the whole of D&D into three stats, 4 classes, 4 skills, and very few rules, fitting on 2 pages (the rest is advice on 'old school play'). All while being fully compatible with monsters from the 3.5 SRD. And, of course, free.

[DMMike]

Rules-light d20? Right here.

http://www.obsidianportal.com/campaigns/p-p-rpg

Okay, it's not done yet. But you're welcome to help out!

Microlite's not bad, but there are 3 ability scores and only 4 skills, making each skill basically an extended ability score. Plus, the attack bonuses (3 types) and skills (and hit points) all progress at the same speed for all 4 classes (with the exception of the fighter - he gets attack bonus bumps every few levels).

[Rhynn]

There are a bunch of D&D retro-clones that people always seem to recommend in threads like this..

Allow me...

Swords & Wizardry - free
Adventurer Conqueror King
Basic Fantasy - free
OSRIC - free (least rules-light)
Labyrinth Lord - free

[Draz74]

Old School Hack. Assuming you're looking for a low-level game, it's awesomely fun.

You could also check out Legend ... it's not really rules-light, at all, but it's certainly shorter and more streamlined than Pathfinder.

[hamlet]

Allow me...

Swords & Wizardry - free
Adventurer Conqueror King
Basic Fantasy - free
OSRIC - free (least rules-light)
Labyrinth Lord - free

Also, if you're willing to put out a bit of cash for it and don't mind a bit of extra weight compared to OSRIC, the new Adventures Dark and Deep player's handbook just came out on RPG Now.com for a measly $10. I think it's a great game.

But, yeah, just about any of the ones listed above along with "For Gold and Glory" if you can find it are really good choices.

Actually, I'd lean heavily towards For Gold and Glory in a lot of ways, but I'm a major sucker for 2nd edition AD&D anyway.

[Rhynn]

But, yeah, just about any of the ones listed above along with "For Gold and Glory" if you can find it are really good choices.

ARGH

It's a retroclone for my favorite edition - but their website is down?! Where can I get it...

[hamlet]

ARGH

It's a retroclone for my favorite edition - but their website is down?! Where can I get it...

Honestly, don't know. I had to get it from somebody else who had it downloaded. It might simply not be available any longer.

[Chugosh]

I'm hearing a lot of good things about Dungeon Worlds.
Michtim is a significantly different take on fantasy with a fairly easy and adaptable rule set.
+1 on Old School Hack.
Star worlds, which is an ultralight hack of Dungeon Worlds in the Star Wars setting may be awesome with sauce. I'm trying it out this week end.

[Raum]

True 20 is worth a look if you want a relatively light system based off of d20. Going a bit further afield, you may like Classic Unisystem, Savage Worlds, or Cortex.

All of the above (and the retro-clones) fall into a middle ground on rules. For a truly light system take a look at WaRP or Wushu.

[Silverbit]

Warrior Rogue & Mage is very good for rules light, along with Mazes and Minotaurs. Check them out, they're both free and good. M&M isn't as old as it says it is; it's essentially a (very) playable parody of early D&D.

[Seleborn]

Why not invest in some of the Wizards of the Coast D&D board games (Legend of Drizzt, Ravenloft, Ashardalon)? Also if they are more tactically minded the Dungeon Command series is good.

I know you said free, but I have some friends who love the Drizzt/Ravenloft/Ashardalon games. You pick a character and go!

[Frozen_Feet]

Lamentations of the Flame Princess has recently increasingly become "pseudo-history horror game", but can easily be used for high fantasy. You can get the rules as a free PDF from the game's site. If you can get your hands on some of the modules, Weird New World and Hammer of the Gods are good starting points for fashioning a good if slightly unconventional high fantasy setting. (By "slightly unconventional", I mean "icludes considerable sci-fi elements and references to horror classics" and "elves eat people". )

How to Host a Dungeon is a great company game for LotFP, or any other D&D retroclone.

[JusticeZero]

What part of the rules chafes at them? I've always found the basic SRD to be pretty light on rules. Going to be using the generic classes next game, so that makes things even easier.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

By "high fantasy", do you mean D&D, or some other definition of the term? Because to me, Pendragon and Houses of the Blooded are what come to mind when you say "high fantasy".

Side note: if your group is cool with playing Arthurian knights, Pendragon is one of the best things that ever happened to d20s. And it's pretty easy to handle, rules-wise.

[atomicpenguin]

I love answering questions like this. Its pretty apparent to me that the tabletop RPG world (and this forum specifically) is very biased towards dungeons and dragons. The truth is there are a plethora of fantastic systems out there for every conceivable niche.

More specifically, try looking into Savage Worlds, d6, and Fate. Savage Worlds is a fantastic system that, while not necessarily the lightest on rules, makes it easy to play fast and loose, encourages character building and good roleplaying, and is very helpful for original setting design. Fate is a very rules light system and I love the use of aspects, a list of traits specific to your character that can help or hinder you, and in general how much character building is emphasized. I honestly don't know much about d6, but I've been told its pretty good and you can obtain the books for free.

While these may not be my first picks, you can also look into HARP, Tri-stat, Burning Wheel, and Cortex.

[JusticeZero]

I gamed in d6 and it was a really good system, but it wasn't lighter on rules than 3.5.

I've played with the "Dark Dungeon" system before, and thought it actually worked pretty well save for the hefty downtime demands.

I like the design of FATE but I don't know anyone with FUDGE dice. I know the people who make FUDGE keep hoping that d3(-2)'s will catch on as a standard thing to find in gaming shops but it hasnt happened. People dont like to convert d6 rolls into FUDGE dice.

Last game I played was a long running Ars Magica 4ed game; those rules are actually free. I adored the system and the setting, but it had some ideas in it that were hard to grasp to start with, and the rules were, again, somewhat substantial. (Things to remember - you make three characters; a mage, an adventurer, and a red-shirt, and the game is about managing your groups' tower/sanctum/whatever while sending the adventurers out to do things while the mage does homework and gets stronger in 3-month turns. The management of the sanctum is pretty intentionally complex.)

That said, the data we have is "They liked DnD/PF but thought the rules were intimidating". 3.5 SRD rules are actually pretty happily sparse in a lot of ways, and any group that is intimidated by the rules in 3.5 if you aren't throwing a lot of extras and splats at them is going to be equally intimidated by most everything else out there.

[atomicpenguin]

I like the design of FATE but I don't know anyone with FUDGE dice. I know the people who make FUDGE keep hoping that d3(-2)'s will catch on as a standard thing to find in gaming shops but it hasnt happened. People dont like to convert d6 rolls into FUDGE dice.

I've played FATE with d6's instead of Fudge dice before. I didn't have a problem with it and neither did my players.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I've played FATE with d6's instead of Fudge dice before. I didn't have a problem with it and neither did my players.

There's also always the super-crude "draw the +/-/0 on a regular d6 with a sharpie" approach. Which I... might or might not have used. <shifty eyes> But everyone else in that group just eyeballed d6->FUDGE dice and it worked fine. Maybe an extra few seconds per roll, but you get that back because the numbers being added are so small.

[Frozen_Feet]

Just coming in to say this:

d20 SRD rules are not "sparse". They are a severe case of information overload to anyone who does not already know how D&D is supposed to run. The SRD also misses explanation for several pretty big things, like gaining XP and advancing in level.

If you can, use actual game instead of SRD.

[Sidmen]

By "high fantasy", do you mean D&D, or some other definition of the term? Because to me, Pendragon and Houses of the Blooded are what come to mind when you say "high fantasy".

In general parlance, High Fantasy refers to fantasy where magic is plentiful, gods are involved, and great heroes march around slaying powerful beasts. Low Fantasy refers to those settings where magic is dangerous and/or rare, the gods may or may not even exist, and heroes are as likely to die a horrible death to multiclawed monstrosities.

Pendragon, from what I've heard of it, is a decidedly low-fantasy setting.

[Rhynn]

In general parlance, High Fantasy refers to fantasy where magic is plentiful, gods are involved, and great heroes march around slaying powerful beasts. Low Fantasy refers to those settings where magic is dangerous and/or rare, the gods may or may not even exist, and heroes are as likely to die a horrible death to multiclawed monstrosities.

Pendragon, from what I've heard of it, is a decidedly low-fantasy setting.

High fantasy doesn't really mean high magic, though. That's just the common Internet misuse. LOTR is basically the definition of high fantasy, and it's not a high-magic world, as such. Certainly not more so (and possibly less so) than Lankhmar, yet Fafhrd and Mouser's adventures are not high fantasy - technically, sword & sorcery is the opposite of high fantasy...

Pendragon is, to me, the definition of high fantasy. And as far as magic goes, look at the rulebook - magic, faeries, etc. take up a big chunk of the book, and you're expected to be constantly going on quests that involve impossible and magic things and monsters and happen in faerie worlds. (You can play the game with little focus on this - indeed, the Grand Campaign puts focus on warfare and politics - but the questing is pretty explicitly about non-mundane things and places.)

[Sidmen]

High fantasy doesn't really mean high magic, though. That's just the common Internet misuse.

When on the internet, its usually easier to understand the common usage of words and phrases (which you do), and less maddening to just accept it. For instance, I know what the word Liberal means, the internet does not.

You can struggle against it, but High Fantasy generally involves epic adventures with men above and beyond the abilities of mortals - at least in the collective mind of the internet.