A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2
You can get A Monster for Every Season: Summer 2 now at Gumroad
Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deepbluediver's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The US of A

    Default Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Short Version: LA sucks is troublesome, at best; what if we had certain templates as classes instead? This isn't exactly the same as a SRD vampire, but it has most of the standard strengths and weaknesses, with a few mechanics tweaked to address old problems or new issues generated by the changeover.

    This was an idea I originally came up with for lycanthropes (werewolves and such) but since vampires are on everyone's mind lately, I figured I'd try writing it up for that in the meantime.
    Plus there's an infinite number of were-creatures, but only 1 vampire. So go laziness.


    VAMPIRES
    Becoming a vampire: If killed within one hour of taking damage from a vampire's Drain Blood ability (including if they are killed by the aforementioned ability) a creature has a 50% chance to rise from the dead as a vampire. If the creature wishes to rise, the chance increases by 25%, and if it does not wish to rise, the chance decreases by 25%. If the vampire who dealt the Blood Drain damage wishes for their target to rise, the chance increases by 25%, and if the vampire does not wish it to rise, the chance decreases by 25%. (yes, the two effect can stack or cancel each other out)
    The vampiric rebirth occurs 1d20+4 hours after the victim becomes deceased.

    Normally when a creature dies and resurrects it loses 1 HD or 1 class level. Vampires instead replace their most recently gained class level or HD with the first level of the vampire class. After that, additional class levels are gained as normal.

    Spoiler
    Show
    WARNING! Picture NSFW!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Troll-lol-lol


    Alignment: Almost always evil (see below)
    HD: d12
    Skill Points: 4+Int mod
    Class Skills: Acrobatics, Climb, Disguise, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge (Religion), Linguistics, Perception, Sense Motive, Stealth, & Survival
    Type: A vampire is Undead


    Alignment
    The negative energy flowing through a vampire unceassingly and relentlessly influences it's thoughts and actions, driving it away from good and towards either evil or insanity.
    As soon as a creature becomes a vampire and once per week afterwards, if it is non-evil it must make a Will save (DC 10+2/vampire level) or move 1 category towards evil on the alignment scale.
    A creature who makes the save suffers from an ever-shifting madness (reroll type every 24 hours). A creature who makes the save by at least 5 or more may act normally.

    Each day that the vampire takes 30 points or half his max HP (whichever is greater) in positive energy damage, he gains a +1 bonus on his next Will save to resist madness and alignment shift.

    Class Features
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Vampires gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

    Undead Traits
    Vampires have some of the same characteristics as other Undead, and some that are similar but different, as listed below:

    Same
    • Darkvision out to 50 feet+10 ft./Vampire level
    • Can be healed by Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) and harmed by Positive energy
    • Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless).
    • Immune to death effects.
    • Immune to non-lethal damage.
    • Not at risk of death from massive damage.
    • Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect vampires. These spells turn the vampire back into the living creatures it was before becoming undead, with it's Vampire levels replaced by racial HD.

    Different
    • Vampires have a constitution score (any constitution damage from Blood Drain prior to a vampires death is removed), and gains a bonus to HP as normal.
    • Vampires gain a +2 bonus per vampire level to resist all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), as well as poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, and disease; 5th level vampires are immune to these effects.
    • At first level, a vampire can hold it's breath twice as long as normal for a creature of it's type before it begins to suffocate. For each vampire level, this amount doubles (x3 at 2nd level, x4 at 3rd) until at 5th level when a vampire can hold it's breath indefinitely (though it cannot speak when doing so).
    • Vampires do not truley sleep, but they must rest (in a trance-like state) for an average of 1 day out of 3, or they begin to suffer sleep deprivation. Also unlike other undead, vampires will recover HP from resting.
    • Vampires do not need to eat, but can consume digestible material (for example, to keep up the appearance of life).
    • Unlike other undead, vampires ARE vulnerable to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain. At 3rd level they take half as much ability damage or drain as normal, and there is a 50% chance the do not take energy drain. At 5th level, vampires are immune to both these effects.


    Vampire Traits
    Vampires have some characteristics that are unique to their kind:
    Vampire Physiology- Vampires appear similar to how they did in life, although their features are often take on a predatory and feral look.
    They also have small fangs and claws. These do not grant natural attacks, though they make it easier for a vampire to draw blood from a creature. The fangs and claws give a penalty to Disguise checks equal to -1 per vampire level, and allow a vampire making Unarmed Strikes to deal slashing instead of bludgeoning damage.
    Vampires are sensitive, for some reason, to the smell or garlic and other similar plants (onions and the like). Each round when a vampire smells fresh garlic, they must succeed on a Fortitude save (DC 15+1 per vampire level) or become nauseated.
    Vampires retain any Extraordinary, Spell Like, and Supernatural abilities they posessed while alive, except for positive-energy based effects.
    some vampires have unusually tiny, almost useless fangs, and require a dagger or other tool to draw blood to drink. Other vampires will make fun of them mercillessly for this :P

    Vampiric Vigor- Vampires also gain a natural armor bonus equal to +1/level of vampire.
    Vampires also heal 1 HP per round (fast healing), which increases by 1 per level of vampire. Damage taken from positive damage is not healed by the vampires fast healing, though it may be healed if fast-healing is gained from other sources.
    If a vampire is reduced to 0 HP, they are not destroyed but instead are forced into a an incorporeal cloud (gain the incorporeal creature subtype). The vampire will be drawn towards any gravedirt (see below) within 1 mile/vampire level, reaching it within 1 minute to rest. If there is no such place, then the vampire is destroyed.
    The vampire must rest in this misty state for 8 hours, upon which it recovers both it's pysical form and 1 HP, and it's fast healing resumes as normal.
    An incorporeal vampire can be destroyed if it's HP is reduced to -10 [or however you calculate normal creature-death].

    Vampiric Vulnerabilities- A vampire that has a wooden stake or similar object rammed through it's chest will fall unconscious and lose it's fast-healing (it must still be destroyed some other way to keep it dead).
    Vampires also dislike running water; if they come within 20 ft. of running water (flow must be at least 100 gallons per minute, about the size of a small but rapid stream) they are paralyzed for 3 rounds. If they come within 5 ft. of running water, they are completely paralyzed. (an ocean, sea, or lake large enough to have waves counts as running water)
    If a vampire is submerged in running water, they will take 20 damage per round until destroyed (a vampire reduced to 0 HP in this manner is destroyed completely). A vampire can be carried across running water in a container filled with gravedirt (see below).

    Consuming blood - a vampire does not need to eat, but they must consume 1 pound of blood per day from a creature of the same base-type as themselves, or they begin to suffer from vampiric starvation. (small creatures require half as much, large creatures twice as much)
    A vampire suffering from this starvation takes a penalty to all rolls equal to it's vampire level. If a vampire goes 10 days without drinking blood, it will be destroyed, collapsing into dust. A staked vampire can last twice as long without blood.
    yes yes, I'm sure measuring liquid in pounds enrages you as well, but that's how the game rules work

    Shapeshifting- a vampire can transform into a vampire-bat as a standard action at will (and change back that same way). A vampire bat has the same statistics dire bat except for size, which is based on the vampire: a 1st or 2nd level vampire transforms into a bat 1 size category smaller than they are, a second or third level vampire transforms into a bat the same size category, and a 5th level vampire transforms into a bat 1 size larger.

    Creature of the Night- vampires are vulnerable to daylight and similar spell-like effects. Vampires have light-sensitivity, which at 4th level increases to light blindness. They also take double-damage from any spell with the [Light] descriptor.
    A vampire caught in partial daylight (dusk, dawn) will take 5 radiant damage per round. A vampire caught in full daylight will take 10 radiant damage per round. This damage cannot be healed by a vampire's fast healing so long as the vampire remains in sunlight, and a vampire reduced to 0 HP in this manner is destroyed completely.
    Vampires also require special accommdations to rest. They can only sleep in an area of gravedirt, or a container filled with the same. Gravedirt is soil or sand from any area where a large number of corpses where disposed of, such as a graveyard or battlefield.

    Vampiric Power
    A combination of the benefits of being undead, plus a retention of most of the qualities they had in life, means vampires are frequently stronger, smarter, or more skilled than other creatures of the same base type.
    At first level, and every vampire level thereafter, the vampire can increase one ability score of their choice by 1.

    Blood Drain (Ex)
    At 2nd level, a vampire can derive extra benefits from consuming blood, and can even drain blood directly from living creatures.
    Whenever a vampire drinks at least 1/2 pound of blood, they can heal 1 point of ability damage, or recover 5 HP.
    At 2nd level a vampire can drain blood directly from a victim as a full round action by biting them (vampires do not have natural bite attacks unless they did so in life, meaning unwilling creatures can and will fight back if not restrained or unconscious). Each round the vampire can drain 1/2 pound (about 1/2 a pint), which deals 1 Constitution damage.
    The vampires must succeed on an unarmed attack (bite) which deals 1d3 damage, +1 damage per vampire level. Damage must be dealt in order for the vampire to drink blood, which means creatures with damage reduction or similar qualities may be more difficult for the vampire to drink from.

    Dominate (Su)
    At 3rd level, a vampire can crush an opponent’s will just by looking onto his or her eyes. This is similar to a gaze attack (range 30 feet), except that the vampire must use a standard action, and those merely looking at it are not affected. Anyone the vampire targets must succeed on a Will save (DC 10+2/vampire level) or fall instantly under the vampire’s influence as though by a Charm Monster spell (caster level equal to the vampire's total HD), except that it lasts 1 minute per HD. If the target fails by 5 or more, they are instead effected as if by a Dominate Monster spell (same duration).
    Creatures with more HD than the vampire gain a bonus to their Will save equal to +1 per HD difference. If a creature resists this ability, the vampire cannot target that creature again for 24 hours.
    A vampire can dominate only 1 creature at a time, but can dismiss the effect as a free action at will. The effect will also end if the dominated creatures travels more than 1 mile from the vampire.

    Children of the Night (Su)
    By 4th level, vampires command the lesser creatures of the world and once per day can call forth 2d4 rat swarms, 2d3 bat or snake (tiny viper) swarms, or a pack of 3d4 wolves as a standard action. The vampire can summon 1 additional swarm or wolf per 3 HD. These creatures arrive in 2d6 rounds and serve the vampire for up to 1 hour.
    If the base creature is not terrestrial or the vampire is not on the material plane, this ability might summon other creatures of similar power.

    Create Spawn (Su)
    At 5th level, the vampire can create servants who are uterly loyal to the vampire, and share in some of his power.
    A vampire can create a spawn from any creature that is dealt damage by the vampire's Blood drain, and then falls prey to the vampires Dominate ability. Once Spawned, they do not count against the vampires normal limit for dominating creatures, and the effect does not have a time limit.
    A vampire can have a maximum of 1 spawn per 3 HD, and cannot create a spawn from any creature with more than 1/2 the vampire's total HD. The vampire can dismiss the effect at will, at which point the creature reverts to normal.

    Vampire Spawn have the following characteristics:
    • It's skin becomes pale and ashen, and it gains fangs and claws, like a vampire.
    • Gains Darkvision 30 ft. and Light sensitivity
    • Has fast healing 1
    • Can be healed by Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) and harmed by Positive energy
    • Immune to death effects
    • +5 bonus to resist all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects), as well as poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, and disease
    • Has a vampire's sensitivity to Garlic
    • Takes 1 damage per round in full sunlight, similar to a vampire
    • Can drain blood and heal HP from such like a 2nd level vampire


    Vampire Spawn can be killed as normal for a creature of their type, and if revived will no longer be vampire spawn.
    The effect can also be broken a number of other ways as well: if the spawn travels more than 10 miles from the vampire, by a Remove Curse spell, by keeping the creature contained inside a Consecrated area for 3 days, or by dealing 20 points or 1/2 max HP (whichever is greater) of positive energy damage to the creature.
    The spawn will resist all attempts to cure it to the best of it's ability.

    Other
    At levels 1, 3, & 5 a vampire gains the benefits of any class features except for spellcasting from any 1 class it had before becoming a vampire (basically, anything listed in the "Special" column of the class' table, but not spells).
    At levels 2 & 4, a vampire gains new spells per day as if it had also gained a level in any one spellcasting class it belonged to before becoming a vampire.


    Conclusion
    Ok, I think that's pretty much everything, let me know if there's any major things I missed and what you think about this idea/this class overall.

    Edit: forgot to include why vampries are (almost) always evil; added a section between the chart and Class Features.

    Edit2: I tweaked the alignment section to allow extra help if some one is trying to keep a non-evil vampire from sliding down that slippery slope.
    Also made a few other small changes.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-07-21 at 05:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
    Homebrew Extended Signature!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

    Join Date
    Feb 2013

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    I'm not qualified to comment on the bulk of it, but there is one thing I noticed. You hand out boosts to caster level and to class level for the purpose of features, which makes sense on a basic level. But what if I'm a wizard and those +3 levels for my familiar are worth nothing next to the crippling -2 to caster level? Then there's an issue. Conversely, what if I'm a barbarian and those boosts to spellcasting don't help me in the least? Issue there as well.

    My suggestion would be to either have the player choose at each level, or, if full wizard progression while you do this is too OP, have all of the levels grant a boost to class level for feature purposes. Because spellcasters will do just fine if they lose a level or two of casting.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Wikipedia-like cross indexing:
    Eripmav.(I have added a reciprocal link.)
    A Vampire Template
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2013-03-13 at 06:25 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deepbluediver's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The US of A

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by SalmonOfDoubt View Post
    I'm not qualified to comment on the bulk of it,...
    By the time you reach 5th level, it's very similar to the standard SRD vampire, which has an LA of +7 (or +8, can't remember right now) with things like the AC bonus, the fast healing, and most of the same abilities.

    One of the biggest changes though, I think, is that newly formed vampires are not inherently loyal to their creator. That, and the "vampire spawn" are basically living mind-slaves, but are otherwise not fully undead.

    Other than that, it all matches up pretty closely, which was intentional. The difference is that now, rather than needing to deal with LA, either at character creation or in-game, the tradeoff is something equivalent in extra HD/loss of other features.


    Quote Originally Posted by SalmonOfDoubt View Post
    ...but there is one thing I noticed. You hand out boosts to caster level and to class level for the purpose of features, which makes sense on a basic level. But what if I'm a wizard and those +3 levels for my familiar are worth nothing next to the crippling -2 to caster level? Then there's an issue. Conversely, what if I'm a barbarian and those boosts to spellcasting don't help me in the least? Issue there as well.

    My suggestion would be to either have the player choose at each level, or, if full wizard progression while you do this is too OP, have all of the levels grant a boost to class level for feature purposes. Because spellcasters will do just fine if they lose a level or two of casting.
    This class adds several decent features for both melee and spellcasters, mainly in the form of AC bonuses and Fast healing, plus some additional nice non-direct combat stuff.

    But 5 levels is a tough loss on anyone, whether it's spells or other class features, and I wanted to provide some compensation for characters with existing class levels.

    I split it up like so for 2 reasons: first, spellcasters tend to be more powerful, but they will gain benefits of both spells per day AND other features, while melee is limited to just one.
    And secondly, putting everything at only levels 1, 3, & 5 or 2 & 4 would have made the chart lopsided. :P

    As it stands, you're not THAT far behind a full-caster, and you have several nice spell-like abilities and are less fragile to make up for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Wikipedia-like cross indexing: Eripmav.

    (I will be adding a reciprocal link).
    I should have known I wouldn't be the first person to have an idea like this. :)
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-03-06 at 12:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
    Homebrew Extended Signature!

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    This certainly is an interesting option.

    Personally though I'll stick with the Monster Class in Libris Mortus.
    Extended Signature

    Guide to becoming a demon in Pathfinder

    Special thanks to Gurgleflep for creating my Avatar

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    I should have known I wouldn't be the first person to have an idea like this. :)
    Well, yes, you should have, but eripmavs are noticably NON-equivalent. They are thematically related, but they are still a template (although someone could make a class version of them in theory), and they are a "good-guy"* version with a lengthy mechanic or two devoted to making them feel that way.

    *Or at least neutral guy.

    In short, there is room for both in a single campaign without feeling too redundant.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2013-03-06 at 08:22 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Daemon

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    First thing I noticed: we've got a lot of "campires" going on here. Might wanna clean up those typos.

    Now, to go through it in detail.
    HD, Skills, BAB and Saves seem appropriate.

    Alignment: Cleverly done, I approve. You restrict Good vampires, but don't outright forbid them. It's just a real damn effort.

    Undead Traits: I like the retaining of Con score, the slow handing out of immunities etc. Makes the class more balanced.

    Vampire Traits: Weaknesses aren't as overpowering as they are to the SRD Vampire, which makes a PC's life easier. The only thing with Fast Healing - this makes you pretty damn difficult to kill. As long as there's a graveyard or battleground within several miles of you you're safe. Unless this vampire can be harmed in Gaseous Form? Although hitting it'd be difficult, it could be doing 800ft a round. You also can't stake a resting vampire that's healing, because it stays incorporeal. I'd recommend changing that, if only for the thematic side. I'm not sure about requiring them to feed on their own base-type. This could rapidly get hard when you're off adventuring without a freezer-cabinet Bag of Holding.

    Healing from Blood Drain is good, adding a mechanic aside from Grappling is EXCELLENT. Before you couldn't drain a dragon, for example, whereas now you can at least nip its ankles if you can avoid being crushed or fried. I'd suggest allowing Blood Drain as additional damage on Natural Bite Attacks whenever they're used, as if you have teeth to sink into someone it doesn't take much extra effort to swallow once you've bitten them.
    Although letting them deal extra damage if they CAN maintain a pin might also be nice, going up to 1d4 maybe.

    Could do with stating a Save DC for Dominate. Also, I'd make it Charm Person, then Charm Monster, then Dominate Person, and finally Dominate Monster. As it you can control the local Duke's mind at 3rd level, but if you're a Minotaur you can never tell your next meal to let you feed on it.

    Children of the Night - standard, no problems here.

    Vampire Spawn - This I like. It removes the fear for a DM of vast chains of Vampires running a muck and ruining everything, but allows a Dawnguard-style manipulation of mortals.

    Other - Improving previous class features and spellcasting makes this class fit into other builds better, I approve.


    Ed: Also, it needs a good picture.
    Last edited by Cogidubnus; 2013-03-09 at 12:37 PM.
    Homebrew: Ghost Rider, a 3.5e Base Class inspired by Marvel's Comics.


    So guys, the new Iron Man trailer, huh?

    Spoiler
    Show


  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deepbluediver's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The US of A

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    Personally though I'll stick with the Monster Class in Libris Mortus.
    I don't think I have a copy of that one. Could you describe a few of the major differences? Or what you prefer about it? I'm open to suggestions.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cogidubnus View Post
    First thing I noticed: we've got a lot of "campires" going on here. Might wanna clean up those typos.
    It was only two...
    Thanks for pointing that out; I've fixed that and a few other typos and errors that where left over from copy-pasta-ing sections of the SRD. Obviously I need to be more careful when I'm slapping at the keyboard with my fat little sausage-fingers.

    Undead Traits: I like the retaining of Con score, the slow handing out of immunities etc. Makes the class more balanced.
    IMO, undead and constructs should all have a Con score, and it just represents how well put-together/built they are, rather than how tough.

    The issue with removing Constitution or anything else is that ability scores are the foundation upon which the entire house of cards is assembled. You make that one seemingly-small change and you end up with a whole host of issues to correct.

    Vampire Traits: Weaknesses aren't as overpowering as they are to the SRD Vampire, which makes a PC's life easier.
    Some of the stuff that seemed leftover from the conversion of Bram Stoker's Dracula to D&D mechanics (needing a coffin, holy symbols, etc) is, I think, basically leftovers from when this was a Judeo-Christian/spawn-of-Satan monster and didn't really fit. I was trying to keep the good/workable and jettison the bad/pointless.

    The only thing with Fast Healing - this makes you pretty damn difficult to kill. As long as there's a graveyard or battleground within several miles of you you're safe.
    Yes, it does, but it's one of the major benefits of vampirism, and I'm not entirely sure how to alter it in a balanced way. I know that other PC-related fast healing sources tend to cap out at half-max HP(Dragon Shaman, Warlock) or are limited use (items) but since Vampiric fast-healing has other requirements, I think I'll leave it for now. Also, this vampire can't switch into gaseuous form voluntarily, so if you knock it down to 0 HP, it's out of the fight for at least 8 hours.

    Unless this vampire can be harmed in Gaseous Form? Although hitting it'd be difficult, it could be doing 800ft a round. You also can't stake a resting vampire that's healing, because it stays incorporeal. I'd recommend changing that, if only for the thematic side.
    Hmm...I guess I'd rule that it gains the Incorporeal creature subtype, which means you can damage it with magic and similar attacks. I'll have to add a few more lines, probably something like: if you can reduce it to -10 HP (or whatever rule you use), it is destroyed entirely.

    I'm not sure about requiring them to feed on their own base-type. This could rapidly get hard when you're off adventuring without a freezer-cabinet Bag of Holding.
    Yeah, it does, I admit that. But it's not insurmountable, and it's one of the few real penalties/trade-offs PCs will need to consider. I'm also not a fan of the lego-genetics/mix-'n-match creatures D&D seems to like, so this makes people think a little bit more before they take the plunge.

    If I where DMing, I'd probably rule that a group of 4 can support one additional vampire party member (5 creatures total) for a period of at least a few weeks without too much trouble (by all donating a small amount of blood each day). They could probably support him indefinitely with the judicious use of Restoration spells to avoid becoming anemic.

    [the body can recover the volume of fluids from 1 pint of blood loss within 12-24 hours, but producing sufficient red blood cells to make up the loss takes several weeks]

    Also, I'm not sure if I was clear about this, but when I said base-type, I just meant humanoid, animal, dragon, etc. I wouldn't require an elvish vampire to only feed on elves, for example.

    Before you couldn't drain a dragon, for example, whereas now you can at least nip its ankles if you can avoid being crushed or fried.
    Heh heh heh heh...Anklebiters...

    I'd suggest allowing Blood Drain as additional damage on Natural Bite Attacks whenever they're used, as if you have teeth to sink into someone it doesn't take much extra effort to swallow once you've bitten them.
    Although letting them deal extra damage if they CAN maintain a pin might also be nice, going up to 1d4 maybe.
    The RAW grapple rules are not so hot, either; I ended up rewriting my own. But basically, if you have some one grappled, there are other methods for dealing damage. Also, the bite itself deals HP damage, but the Blood drain deals Constitution damage, so it will be a multiplicative effect anyway.

    Could do with stating a Save DC for Dominate. Also, I'd make it Charm Person, then Charm Monster, then Dominate Person, and finally Dominate Monster. As it you can control the local Duke's mind at 3rd level, but if you're a Minotaur you can never tell your next meal to let you feed on it.
    I totally forgot about the save DC; will get right on that.

    The rest of it is also a good idea. I think I'm just going to go with Charm Monster/Dominate Monster, since it includes all creature types, with the stronger effect if the Save is failed by a larger margin (5 or worse).

    Children of the Night - standard, no problems here.
    I was trying to come up with an aquatic variation as well, even though most vampires steer clear of water. Do you think a piranha swarm is a good idea or would it be pointless?

    Vampire Spawn - This I like. It removes the fear for a DM of vast chains of Vampires running a muck and ruining everything, but allows a Dawnguard-style manipulation of mortals.
    Thanks! The core rules that make decent monsters are frequently game-breaking when handed over to PCs. This (hopefully) keeps things powerful enough for the DM, without being broken if the players decide to re-enact Anne Rice.

    Ed: Also, it needs a good picture.
    Done.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-03-11 at 01:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
    Homebrew Extended Signature!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    I don't think I have a copy of that one. Could you describe a few of the major differences? Or what you prefer about it? I'm open to suggestions.
    How about I simply show you.

    Here is the WotC article on it

    Heres the class's table:
    Vampire Spawn
    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]Level|Hit Dice|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skill Points|Special

    1st|
    1d12
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |(4 + Int mod) x 4|Blood drain, feat, slam 1d4, +2 turn resistance, +2 skill bonus

    2nd|
    1d12
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |-|+1 natural armor, +2 Cha, Alertness

    3rd|
    2d12
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |4 + Int mod|Spider climb, +2 Dex

    4th|
    2d12
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |-|+2 natural armor, +4 skill bonus, +2 Str

    5th|
    3d12
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |4 + Int mod|Fast healing 1, +2 Wis, Lightning Reflexes

    6th|
    3d12
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |-|Feat, +2 Cha, resistance to cold 10 and electricity

    7th|
    4d12
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |4 + Int mod|+3 natural armor, +2 int, gaseous form, slam 1d6

    8th|
    4d12
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |-|Domination, energy drain, fast healing 2, +2 Str, Improved Initiative, damage reduction 5/silver [/table]


    Between those, you can figure out the whole class. Enjoy.
    Extended Signature

    Guide to becoming a demon in Pathfinder

    Special thanks to Gurgleflep for creating my Avatar

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Re: Gaseous Form
    Look at the link, and I think you will see it is FAR from invulnerability. It grants DR 10/magic, and isn't much good against spells.
    I would switch it back since incorporality is actually a much stronger defense, especially at higher ECLs.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deepbluediver's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The US of A

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    How about I simply show you.

    Here is the WotC article on it

    Heres the class's table:
    Vampire Spawn
    Spoiler
    Show
    {table=head]Level|Hit Dice|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skill Points|Special

    1st|
    1d12
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |(4 + Int mod) x 4|Blood drain, feat, slam 1d4, +2 turn resistance, +2 skill bonus

    2nd|
    1d12
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |-|+1 natural armor, +2 Cha, Alertness

    3rd|
    2d12
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |4 + Int mod|Spider climb, +2 Dex

    4th|
    2d12
    |
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |-|+2 natural armor, +4 skill bonus, +2 Str

    5th|
    3d12
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |4 + Int mod|Fast healing 1, +2 Wis, Lightning Reflexes

    6th|
    3d12
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |-|Feat, +2 Cha, resistance to cold 10 and electricity

    7th|
    4d12
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |4 + Int mod|+3 natural armor, +2 int, gaseous form, slam 1d6

    8th|
    4d12
    |
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |-|Domination, energy drain, fast healing 2, +2 Str, Improved Initiative, damage reduction 5/silver [/table]


    Between those, you can figure out the whole class. Enjoy.
    Yes, I can, and it's helpful to see what it offers, so thank you for that.
    But what about this version do you like? Or what about it do you prefer over my design? IMO, the article's "list of weaknesses" is more like a list of deal-breakers, and the fluff seems to require a certain play style. For example, it would be hard to make a spellcaster who is 8 levels behind, and most heavy-melee won't like the BAB/HD reduction, or the fluff (sneaky/manipulative)

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Re: Gaseous Form
    Look at the link, and I think you will see it is FAR from invulnerability. It grants DR 10/magic, and isn't much good against spells.
    I would switch it back since incorporality is actually a much stronger defense, especially at higher ECLs.
    Sorry, I think this is a bit of confusion on my part. I didn't realize the the SRD vampire's gaseous cloud was so different from normal incorporealty, and at the same time I posted my reply to Cogidubnus, I also added a note to my original post to clarify that incorporeality was what I meant.
    I'll edit where appropriate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
    Homebrew Extended Signature!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Yes, I can, and it's helpful to see what it offers, so thank you for that.
    But what about this version do you like? Or what about it do you prefer over my design? IMO, the article's "list of weaknesses" is more like a list of deal-breakers, and the fluff seems to require a certain play style. For example, it would be hard to make a spellcaster who is 8 levels behind, and most heavy-melee won't like the BAB/HD reduction, or the fluff (sneaky/manipulative)
    Well, I tend to go off of ECL when working with monster classes. While it takes 8 levels to get though, your ECL is 4 (Number of Hit Dice + Level Adjustment). Note that you get skills 4 times, and only 2 feats. Both true of a 4th level character.

    As for what I like about it. Monster classes, to me at least, are a good work around. It allows you to play on the level of the group, some cases though you have to be very smart about your abilities. Stat wise, you can be vastly superior to someone your level. Personally I feel it best to go into a melee oriented class after completing the Vampire Spawn Monster Class.

    Over all it nets you: +6 Str, +2 Dex, +6 Cha, +2 Wis, and removes the concern for constitution. Go paladin right after or right before is my suggestion. Think of this: at "10th level", or ECL 6 (6d12 HD, +0 LA), you can hit harder (+3 strength mod) and your defenses get a +3 higher bonus than otherwise. Under a point buy system, sell all your constitution away before applying other stats, you have more to work with. Since your undead, your immune to most fort save requirements and the few that do effect you, you use charisma to determine anyways, so you add your cha mod to it twice. Spider climb allows for great maneuverability, your regeneration and natural armor help keep you alive, and the drains always help.

    For the most part, I enjoy the flavor of it and the potential. Thats not to say your idea is bad, its just personal preference.
    Extended Signature

    Guide to becoming a demon in Pathfinder

    Special thanks to Gurgleflep for creating my Avatar

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    For crossing running water you have the following:
    Spoiler
    Show
    A vampire can be carried across running water in a container filled with gravedirt (see below).

    As written they can be carried across it (in a boat for instance) without need for either container or gravedirt. They are just paralyzed. Does the grave dirt just allow them to sleep, and prevent paralysis as long as they remain in contact with the large amount of grave-dirt? Fighting while prone, or burried waste deep sucks, but not as much as full paralysis, so you COULD do it that way.

    I still suggest swapping back to Gaseous Form. If you need to nerf the fly speed from what you had it as, then that would be fine. 800 ft/round is very hard to chase and still attack.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deepbluediver's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The US of A

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    @Xuldarinar
    I definitely need to get a hold of a copy of that book. It looks interesting, but I'm still not absolutely certain I understand how the ECL works. Does that mean that with 8 levels of this class I can basically use more powerful races or get templates for free? (anything of 4 LA or less)
    Or if we all start at the same level am I stuck perpetually 4 LA behind the rest of the party? If the extra stats and abilities are of equal worth to the 4-less HD, why does it have ECL-4?

    Also, if you like the flavor, thats fine, but my personal preference is that doing "monsters as classes" lets you add your OWN flavor without needing to deal with all the fluffy-baggage the monster comes with. I purposefully tried to keep my vampire flavor-nuetral, so you can flavor it with anything from aristocrat to priest to barbarian.

    Plus, the "point-buy away a stat then errase the penalty" tactic has a very cheesy feel to me. I prefer stat-arrays, but that addresses the issue only slightly.

    Thanks for all your feedback, though, it was certainly appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    I still suggest swapping back to Gaseous Form. If you need to nerf the fly speed from what you had it as, then that would be fine. 800 ft/round is very hard to chase and still attack.
    I misunderstood. I though you where advocating FOR incorporeality over gaseous form. Stop making me feel dumb.

    As I said, my vampire does not have an at-will gasesous form w/fly speed, because I don't like the ability. I don't know where the inspiriation for it came from, and it seems arbitrary and somewhat redundant compared to whatever else the vampire has going on.

    What I was going for was that if you reduce a vampire to 0 HP, you've basically destroyed their physical form and turned them into a ghost. At this point the vampire isn't consciouslly flying and seeking out refuge; it is being irresistably drawn towards a place where they can recuperate. If you can track them down or know where they are heading, you can still destroy them, but it requires advance planning and knowledge.

    Also, while it does make vampires a little harder to finish off permanantly, it also puts them out of the fight for longer (8 hours vs 1) so you have more time to either flee or prepare for round 2. With the SRD version, if you didn't know where the coffin was or lacked another way to finish it off, 1 vampire could easily be 4+ encounters per day all by itself.

    For crossing running water you have the following:
    Spoiler
    Show
    A vampire can be carried across running water in a container filled with gravedirt (see below).

    As written they can be carried across it (in a boat for instance) without need for either container or gravedirt. They are just paralyzed. Does the grave dirt just allow them to sleep, and prevent paralysis as long as they remain in contact with the large amount of grave-dirt? Fighting while prone, or burried waste deep sucks, but not as much as full paralysis, so you COULD do it that way.
    Well you see......I mean....its like this.....
    ....
    ....
    huh.

    You got me there, this is a slip-up on my part.

    The RAW simply says they are unable to cross running water. It doesn't say why, or give limits on how close they can get. Example: does a vampire 1000 feet in the air count as "crossing" a river? Is a leaky faucet sufficient to count as "running water"? Does a player carrying a canteen count as "running water" if they are moving fast enough? And if so, can we assume that "cross" alternatively means "betray"? (don't ask)

    And amongst the more ridiculous scenarios I've encountered: find out where the Tarrasque is sleeping, dig a ditch around it's cave. Get a couple of golems or cheap laborers to continuously dump buckets of water in one end so it "flows". Then get Tarrasque to Swallow Whole a vampire. The Tarrasque is now trapped.
    This was part of a series of failed (and increasingly contrived) schemes to tame the Tarrasque for use as a mount. Again, don't ask- it was just that kind of game.

    I was trying to come up with some actual, concrete numbers, and penalties that are associated with specific actions. I will need to give this some more thought, and decide what, if anything, I want to change.
    I'm open to suggestions.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-03-12 at 02:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
    Homebrew Extended Signature!

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Xuldarinar's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    -Does a player carrying a canteen count as "running water" if they are moving fast enough? And if so, can we assume that "cross" alternatively means "betray"?-
    Ok, I just gotta put these out there:

    If someone were to summon a bunch of water elementals and have them run in circles around a vampire, can the vampire jump over them or do they count as running water?

    If its raining, can a vampire move?
    Extended Signature

    Guide to becoming a demon in Pathfinder

    Special thanks to Gurgleflep for creating my Avatar

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Mist-form, to me, is pretty classic if only due to Dracula being the archetypical example in the modern consciousness. I wouldn't know about legends and mythology.

    I mention this not to change your mind (you seem pretty set on it), but to say that you COULD change the way running water works to the way I have it work for Eripmav's since you seem content to make up your own ideas for how things should work rather than picking any individual source and sticking to it. Or am I wrong about that? Note that hip-boots provide a pretty good amount of protection for an Eripmav, which goes against both the general idea of vampires and the idea in D&D that armor and clothing count as part of the "self".

    Actually, I would say that there is an effect similar to a wall of force that only effects vampires and spawn extending up across the entire thickness and length of running water (keep your current definition of what that is) for about 1 mile, but not penetrating enclosed areas (so subterranean streams don't do anything, and if the covered part of a cover bridge extends further than the banks of a river, the vampire can cross via it). Then say that this is negated by your box with grave dirt (but maybe still paralyzes), and that opening the box deals the vampire 1d6 points of damage for every 5' that they are from the nearest area that ISN'T over running water. If the vampire survives this they are thrown to said area, if they don't they are simply utterly destroyed. This would need some tweaking so that underground streams are not a problem, but that ships don't themselves provide any protection.

    Alternatively you could take the suggestion I already gave you about the coffin keeping the vampire alert, and thus SLIGHTLY more able to defend themselves. Or vary it (perhaps in combination with my idea about wall of Force, and say that the coffin(or other container, but hereafter just "coffin") has to be closed and etc, to provide its ongoing protection (which still allows conversation) , but that charisma modifier (minimum 1) times per day they can leave it for up to 3 rounds before the paralysis sets in. Throw in some sort of language about it taking one minute in the coffin for this effect to set in or reset, and you should have eliminated most of the cheese. This would give an advantage to the coffin, but still make travel over water a scary proposition.

    P.S. Could you PEACH my Eripmav? There are several responses, but very little usable PEACH. If you do, please judge it more based on "A more playable Dracula, without the Evil" than original legends. Playablity, flavor, balance etc, are, of course, fair game, but I am not going to simplify either version any more than they already are without a compelling suggestion.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2013-03-12 at 06:04 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Deepbluediver's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    The US of A

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by Xuldarinar View Post
    If someone were to summon a bunch of water elementals and have them run in circles around a vampire, can the vampire jump over them or do they count as running water?

    If its raining, can a vampire move?
    Oh god, we didn't even THINK about elementals.

    ...I need you to hide this post, and NEVER MENTION IT AGAIN.

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoDei View Post
    Mist-form, to me, is pretty classic if only due to Dracula being the archetypical example in the modern consciousness. I wouldn't know about legends and mythology.
    Its been a while since I read the original novel by Mr. Stoker (if I ever have kids I'm naming one "Bram", just because it's an awesome name) so I had forgotten that turning into fog was one of the laundry-list of powers that Dracula was described as having.
    And I thought I said to stop making me look dumb :P
    Also apparently weather control, size-shifting, and teleportation; thanks Wikipedia!

    I guess that means by D&D standards, all vampires are Dracula. I could also certainly see a version of vampires that got more powerful with age (like dragons) instead of monsters-as-a-class, but either way a player-turned vampire wouldn't get all the "LA +8" abilities at once.

    I mention this not to change your mind (you seem pretty set on it), but to say that you COULD change the way running water works to the way I have it work for Eripmav's since you seem content to make up your own ideas for how things should work rather than picking any individual source and sticking to it. Or am I wrong about that? Note that hip-boots provide a pretty good amount of protection for an Eripmav, which goes against both the general idea of vampires and the idea in D&D that armor and clothing count as part of the "self".
    Never assume that you shouldn't make a comment because I won't want to change things. I post on the forums for feedback, and I give everything due consideration.
    I spend alot of time thinking about homebrew beforehand, so that I'm pretty well set on the big stuff, but I make little changes and tweaks based on suggestions or comments all the time.

    The reason I switched from gas-cloud to incororeal creature was because I didn't want the gaseous form to be an integral part of MY vampire. If some one considered it necessary to their concept, I'd probably try to come up with some way to allow it (maybe trade a feat for it or swap out some other vampire ability, like domination or children of the night).

    ...Actually, now that I put it like that, maybe I should change things to allow vampires to pick what they get when, and add in more SLAs like Weather Control and Dimension Door.
    Hmm....

    *suggestions about crossing water*
    Spoiler
    Show
    Actually, I would say that there is an effect similar to a wall of force that only effects vampires and spawn extending up across the entire thickness and length of running water (keep your current definition of what that is) for about 1 mile, but not penetrating enclosed areas (so subterranean streams don't do anything, and if the covered part of a cover bridge extends further than the banks of a river, the vampire can cross via it). Then say that this is negated by your box with grave dirt (but maybe still paralyzes), and that opening the box deals the vampire 1d6 points of damage for every 5' that they are from the nearest area that ISN'T over running water. If the vampire survives this they are thrown to said area, if they don't they are simply utterly destroyed. This would need some tweaking so that underground streams are not a problem, but that ships don't themselves provide any protection.

    Alternatively you could take the suggestion I already gave you about the coffin keeping the vampire alert, and thus SLIGHTLY more able to defend themselves. Or vary it (perhaps in combination with my idea about wall of Force, and say that the coffin(or other container, but hereafter just "coffin") has to be closed and etc, to provide its ongoing protection (which still allows conversation) , but that charisma modifier (minimum 1) times per day they can leave it for up to 3 rounds before the paralysis sets in. Throw in some sort of language about it taking one minute in the coffin for this effect to set in or reset, and you should have eliminated most of the cheese. This would give an advantage to the coffin, but still make travel over water a scary proposition.
    All workable ideas, certainly. I haven't really had the chance to sit down and think about this, but when I do it will probably be something like this.

    P.S. Could you PEACH my Eripmav? There are several responses, but very little usable PEACH. If you do, please judge it more based on "A more playable Dracula, without the Evil" than original legends. Playablity, flavor, balance etc, are, of course, fair game, but I am not going to simplify either version any more than they already are without a compelling suggestion.
    Sure. I've avoided saying anything because I'm not familiar with the...uh...inspirational material, but I'll give it my best shot.
    Hopefully I can post something by this afternoon.
    Last edited by Deepbluediver; 2013-03-22 at 10:18 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    It's not called common because the sense is common, it's called common because it's about common things.
    Homebrew Extended Signature!

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    DracoDei's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Near Atlanta,GA USA
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Classy Vampires (an option for people who don't like LA) [3.5/3.PF]

    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Its been a while since I read the original novel by Mr. Stoker (if I ever have kids I'm naming one "Bram", just because it's an awesome name) so I had forgotten that turning into fog was one of the laundry-list of powers that Dracula was described as having.
    And I though I said to stop making me look dumb :P
    Also apparently weather control, size-shifting, and teleportation; thanks Wikipedia!
    I am in the process of very slowly reading it (I need to take notes, and when I take notes I do so fairly compulsively).

    Anyway, I THINK that if you look at the story, he had some sort of caster levels before he became a vampire. But that is just what I have heard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    I guess that means by D&D standards, all vampires are Dracula.
    Nah, I don't think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Never assume that you shouldn't make a comment because I won't want to change things. I post on the forums for feedback, and I give everything due consideration.
    It just seemed like you had rejected certain ideas, so I didn't want to come off as nagging.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    I spend alot of time thinking about homebrew beforehand, so that I'm pretty well set on the big stuff, but I make little changes and tweaks based on suggestions or comments all the time.

    The reason I switched from gas-cloud to incororeal creature was because I didn't want the gaseous form to be an integral part of MY vampire. If some one considered it necessary to their concept, I'd probably try to come up with some way to allow it (maybe trade a feat for it or swap out some other vampire ability, like domination or children of the night).
    Maybe build this in, and say that GMs should pick one, or allow it to vary between vampires (player's pick? "Blood-line" trait?).


    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post

    ...Actually, now that I put it like that, maybe I should change things to allow vampires to pick what they get when, and add in more SLAs like Weather Control and Dimension Door.
    Hmm....
    Eh, Control Weather maybe, since it helps the theme more than the crunch, but you want to keep things toned down (or scaling with level) to keep the LA under control.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    All workable ideas, certainly. I haven't really had the chance to sit down and think about this, but when I do it will probably be something like this.
    Glad to help!
    Quote Originally Posted by Deepbluediver View Post
    Sure. I've avoided saying anything because I'm not familiar with the...uh...inspirational material, but I'll give it my best shot.
    Hopefully I can post something by this afternoon.
    The inspirational material isn't totally relevant to understanding it. I explain most of the stuff in the backstory at the beginning anyway.

    I want it to be playable and interesting, even to those who are indifferent to, or even outright can't stand... that source.

    I've made a few tweaks based on this comment to emphasize that the template is intended to stand on its own, rather than being integral to the setting.
    Last edited by DracoDei; 2013-03-13 at 06:37 PM.
    [Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
    Currently Running: Equestria Begins (A High Tactics campaign)
    Extended Signature
    My Homebrew is meant to be used, but, if you do, PLEASE tell me how it goes.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •